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Question for wood re-finisher experts out there - outdoor live edge table...

MtNittany

MtNittany

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May 29, 2001
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So I bought this "Monkey Wood" blank a few years ago - rescued from some office that didn't make it. I only paid $100 for it and like it. It's on a cleat on the wall and has legs on the front.

This is what it looked like after I sanded it and applied tung oil 2 years ago. I never sealed it with anything and it may as well be on the equator w/ as much sun as it gets.

67193274_10157587850044283_2636016979416186880_n.jpg


Well, it didn't hold up. I'm in the process of sanding all the mildew out of it and bringing back the true colors of the wood. I didn't seal it last time because it was summer and I figured it would just be a tacky mess.

I'd cover it in bar room table epoxy, but it will never cure in this heat and sun, and I'm not bringing it inside.

If I tung oil it again, is there something you'd recommend to make it stay that way? I was just going to spray it w/ Krylon UV Resistent Clear right before dark. Should I stain it instead of using oil?

Any help appreciated.
 
Jamestown distributers is mostly a boat/ sailboat place. But since sailboats have wood and they are in the sun, I’d probably start w them. They have great tech lines who do this stuff for a living so call them and ask them

I found a Bar Top finish from Woodworkers supply that has held up really well not an expoxy, so I never put it on in the sun , but it looks great and has held up really well.

Jamestown Distributors

www.jamestowndistributors.com www.jamestowndistributors.com
TotalBoat Halcyon Marine Varnish is an innovative varnish that creates a hard, gloss, or satin finish on brightwork, without the painstaking prep, long dry time, tedious sanding & noxious fumes associated with most varnishes. 1-part low-VOC formula offers powerful UV protection to prevent yellowing. Flexible finish prevents cracking & lifting due to temperature changes.
Cures harder than most 1-part varnishes, with superior abrasion, scratch & solvent resistance. It dries fast–recoat in 1 hr @ 72°F, with no sanding between coats. Resealable Pour Pak™ prevents skinning & waste. Soap & water cleanup.
 
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Was just reading up on this. There is a marine grade epoxy used for boats that is supposed to be very resistant. And many people say to cover the epoxy with several coats of marine grade varnish. But all say nothing is permanent and will fade or fail in time. Be prepared to redo often.

Guessing you do it every year or two by sanding varnish layers before it wears away and exposes the epoxy. Will depend on climate, sun exposure, temps, moisture, usage, and more.

Never used this so am interested in what others advise.
 
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The Spin Meister said:
Was just reading up on this. There is a marine grade epoxy used for boats that is supposed to be very resistant. And many people say to cover the epoxy with several coats of marine grade varnish. But all say nothing is permanent and will fade or fail in time. Be prepared to redo often.

Guessing you do it every year or two by sanding varnish layers before it wears away and exposes the epoxy. Will depend on climate, sun exposure, temps, moisture, usage, and more.

Never used this so am interested in what others advise.
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I gave up on marine products the last time I bought door handles for my Scrambler - soaked them in a product that pontoon boat Capts swear by. I could see the rust on the handles a week later.
 
If you like the look it gives you apply the tung oil or linseed oil and then apply a spar varnish which is good for outdoor applications. It will need to be done every couple of years. The tung oil alone provides very little protection.

Just curious, are you using pure tung oil or some product like minwax tung oil which is an oil varnish mix and has maybe one drop of tung oil in it?

Don't ever use stain on quality wood. Why hide the beauty of the wood. Would you paint over a Rembrandt?

Looks like a very nice piece of lumber. Have you thought of turning it into an interior table?
 
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Did you check out Sikkens Cetol 123? It’s a 3 part application for exterior wood. It was originally designed for log cabins in harsh weather environments. I refinished a set of 3 mahogany garage doors with it and very happy with the result. The garage doors get a lot of sun. I believe the product line was purchased by Pittsburgh Paints and is readily available. When I bought it a few years ago it was only available through special order. Good luck with your project.
 
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johnmpsu said:
If you like the look it gives you apply the tung oil or linseed oil and then apply a spar varnish which is good for outdoor applications. It will need to be done every couple of years. The tung oil alone provides very little protection.

Just curious, are you using pure tung oil or some product like minwax tung oil which is an oil varnish mix and has maybe one drop of tung oil in it?

Don't ever use stain on quality wood. Why hide the beauty of the wood. Would you paint over a Rembrandt?

Looks like a very nice piece of lumber. Have you thought of turning it into an interior table?
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Pure tung oil. re - stain: I was wondering if there was just a clear stain that would give the same look and last longer than the oil. I've heard good things about spar varnish, but still worry about it curing properly in this weather. We'll see. I'm only at 80 grit right now, so it will be a weekend project.

It is a cool piece of wood. The cleat/piano legs work great and I routed out a place for an outlet/charging station in the back. It's the perfect table for my outdoor pool hall because it's so shallow and doesn't take up much room.
 
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MtNittany said:
Pure tung oil. re - stain: I was wondering if there was just a clear stain that would give the same look and last longer than the oil. I've heard good things about spar varnish, but still worry about it curing properly in this weather. We'll see. I'm only at 80 grit right now, so it will be a weekend project.

It is a cool piece of wood. The cleat/piano legs work great and I routed out a place for an outlet/charging station in the back. It's the perfect table for my outdoor pool hall that boulder fish will never be invited to.
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There are lots of oil varnish combinations on the market however spar varnish is designed for outdoor use as it expands and contracts well. I may be wrong but most "marine" varnishes are spar varnishes. I think they are good at preventing mildew. A fresh coat or two of tung and then several coats of spar should work nicely. You will of course need a fresh coat of spar every year or so.
 
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johnmpsu said:
There are lots of oil varnish combinations on the market however spar varnish is designed for outdoor use as it expands and contracts well. I may be wrong but most "marine" varnishes are spar varnishes. I think they are good at preventing mildew. A fresh coat or two of tung and then several coats of spar should work nicely. You will of course need a fresh coat of spar every year or so.
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This is what I’ve done. A couple coats of pure tung, which I let cure, then Man o war spar varnish (you might need to have it shipped via amazon or rockler though). In high humidity though, you may need to let it cure for quite a while. Pure tung might never cure... Good luck.
 
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The keys to maximum UV protection of wood surfaces in harsh weather environments are applying multiple (12-15) thin coats (with light sanding between coats) of the highest gloss marine varnish you can find and using a high quality brush that is properly cleaned during the application process.

UV protection is a direct function of “sheen”. High gloss is optimal with flat or matte sheens offering little protection.

I really like this stuff. It’s a little too thick out of the can for direct application without thinning it by 25% - 50%.

Epifanes Clear Varnish, known around the world, is considered the ultimate in high gloss finish. This traditional marine varnish is based on tung oil, phenolic-modified alkyd resins and maximum U.V. absorbers. It has outstanding protection for all marine and household woods and can be applied to Interior and exterior woods above the waterline. It offers superior flow and durability. In addition, it has excellent flexibility and water resistance in all climate conditions.

I have successfully applied it in high humidity conditions without problem. The key is the thin coats to facilitate drying and achieving maximum weather protection. Given the price of their thinner, I only use it to thin the varnish and use generic mineral spirits for brush cleaning.

You also might want to fabricate some kind of temporary screen cover to shield the surface from bugs during intra-coat drying.

Epifanes Clear Varnish - Epifanes NA Inc.

Epifanes Clear Varnish
www.epifanes.com www.epifanes.com

Amazon product ASIN B0016ZDBOU
Amazon product ASIN B0016ZJKUE
 
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Have you considered waxing it? The heat helps it melt and absorb into the wood. Just keep layering it up and it has the added benefit of not changing the color or texture very much. Once wood has absorbed enough wax not much else is getting into it, and you still have a pretty nice natural finish to it. Plus, it helps keep the wood smooth to the touch.
 
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91Joe95 said:
Have you considered waxing it? The heat helps it melt and absorb into the wood. Just keep layering it up and it has the added benefit of not changing the color or texture very much. Once wood has absorbed enough wax not much else is getting into it, and you still have a pretty nice natural finish to it. Plus, it helps keep the wood smooth to the touch.
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Hmmm...I actually have a bunch of bees wax that I have no use for. Will research further. Good, simple idea.
 
MtNittany said:
Hmmm...I actually have a bunch of bees wax that I have no use for. Will research further. Good, simple idea.
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I’ve never used wax on outside furniture but I’d have two initial concerns:

1. There won’t be any uv protection so if sun exposure is a problem for you, wax won’t be a solution.
2. I’d expect the wax to break down pretty quickly in the elements, so at a minimum, I’d plan on reapplying frequently.

Maybe it’s worth a shot though. I use a mixture of mineral oil and beeswax for indoor items and like the finish especially for things that come in contact with food.
 
Rubio Monocoat might be a good solution. Nice matte finish and tough as nails.
 
Far from an expert, but I do finishing from time to time. Not a whole lot to add here. Also I can only see the red x, so I can't comment on the piece you have directly.

Simple answer: Marine Spar Varnish. Oil version is most likely the best durability wise. However Water based will give you better UV protecting generally speaking.

Going a little deeper. What is more important.

1. Ease of application?

2. Quality of finish?

2a. Tactile

2b. Visual

3. Durability?

I could expand a bit depending on your answer(s).

General (random) Notes:

Rule of 72. The other one. You can go over a type of finish with another type after it dries for 72 hours. If oil is the first, wipe down after the waiting period before applying a film barrier finish such as Poly Ureathane.

If finish is important ( get a high quality brush, or two)

If oil a and using a brush:

China/ natural bristle, or badger style china bristle brush (high end-Over kill for outdoors? Redtree brush)

Redtree Badger style brush

Waterbased?

A nice fine bristle synthetic brush.

Purdy

https://linzerproducts.com/

Wooster brush guide

Though it is tempting to go back and forth, brush in one direction with the grain. Light coats.

After the finish cures ( a week or three) you can use a car wax to add water protection/ durability.

Random links:

https://www.wood-database.com/monkeypod/



https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/oilvarnish-blend-mythology/

An application Idea (you can improvise and ditch the Festool sander)




Google Bob Flexner or Jeff Jewitt. They have written many articles and books on finishing. Solid resources.

** Remember oily rags and rags with oil finish can spontaneously combust. Lay flat to dry, and or toss in a metal trash can (outside of your garage).
 
I think I effed up. I don't know. I applied the tung oil and it's way too dark (imo). Ready to sand it all off and start again. I'm thinking I applied half tung oil half mineral oil last time - which was obviously lighter.

I don't know. I have so many other shit shows in this house (including my Jeep) to deal with right now.... At least the precious wood has oil on it. For now.
 
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MtNittany said:
I think I effed up. I don't know. I applied the tung oil and it's way too dark (imo). Ready to sand it all off and start again. I'm thinking I applied half tung oil half mineral oil last time - which was obviously lighter.

I don't know. I have so many other shit shows in this house (including my Jeep) to deal with right now.... At least the precious wood has oil on it. For now.
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How long are you leaving the Tung oil on before wiping the excess off?
 
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MtNittany said:
I think I effed up. I don't know. I applied the tung oil and it's way too dark (imo). Ready to sand it all off and start again. I'm thinking I applied half tung oil half mineral oil last time - which was obviously lighter.

I don't know. I have so many other shit shows in this house (including my Jeep) to deal with right now.... At least the precious wood has oil on it. For now.
Click to expand...
Before you sand, go buy a pack of microfiber towels from Costco/Sams Club and a gallon of mineral spirits from WalMart (best price).

apply a coat of mineral spirits to the wood and let it sit for 10-15 minutes and then wipe it off and see what gets picked up on the rag.

Drape rag #1 over something so that it can properly air dry over night

repeat again with coat #2 sitting for 20-30 minutes.

Depending on weather conditions, spirits generally have a moderate evaporation rate so there are diminishing returns letting it sit for more than 20-30 minutes.

You might actually find the mineral spirits diluting the tung oil and facilitating deeper seepage into the wood, giving you a lighter color at the surface.
 
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BW Lion said:
Before you sand, go buy a pack of microfiber towels from Costco/Sams Club and a gallon of mineral spirits from WalMart (best price).

apply a coat of mineral spirits to the wood and let it sit for 10-15 minutes and then wipe it off and see what gets picked up on the rag.

Drape rag #1 over something so that it can properly air dry over night

repeat again with coat #2 sitting for 20-30 minutes.

Depending on weather conditions, spirits generally have a high evaporation rate so there are diminishing returns letting it sit for more than 20-30 minutes.

You might actually find the mineral spirits diluting the tung oil and facilitating deeper seepage into the wood, givi g you a lighter color at the surface.
Click to expand...
Would mixing in denatured alcohol help pull out the mineral spirits tung oil mix?
 
BW Lion said:
Before you sand, go buy a pack of microfiber towels from Costco/Sams Club and a gallon of mineral spirits from WalMart (best price).

apply a coat of mineral spirits to the wood and let it sit for 10-15 minutes and then wipe it off and see what gets picked up on the rag.

Drape rag #1 over something so that it can properly air dry over night

repeat again with coat #2 sitting for 20-30 minutes.

Depending on weather conditions, spirits generally have a high evaporation rate so there are diminishing returns letting it sit for more than 20-30 minutes.

You might actually find the mineral spirits diluting the tung oil and facilitating deeper seepage into the wood, givi g you a lighter color at the surface.
Click to expand...
BTW I forgot to mention that I like your Idea. What I hate about sanding out an oil finish is that the oil sometimes seeps very deep. Beyond thining the stock, sometimes the sanding adds undulation to the surface. I remember sanding to try to fix finish and some nasty scratch marks caused by contamination from a lower grit sandpaper that transferred over to my higher grit paper. I ended up sanding deep enough to lose some of the figure in the wood. The grain was all over the place in an area of the piece of wood.
 
STPGopherfan said:
Would mixing in denatured alcohol help pull out the mineral spirits tung oil mix?
Click to expand...
STPGopherfan said:
Would mixing in denatured alcohol help pull out the mineral spirits tung oil mix?
Click to expand...
I don’t know. Like acetone, I think denatured alcohol is very light and has a high level of evaporation. I’m uncertain of its’ compatibility with oil-based stains or tung oils.

I only use denatured alcohol as a final wipe of the surface to remove any residual contamination

I know mineral spirits are petroleum-based and are capable of dissolving/thinning other much heavier oils.
 
91Joe95 said:
Have you considered waxing it? The heat helps it melt and absorb into the wood. Just keep layering it up and it has the added benefit of not changing the color or texture very much. Once wood has absorbed enough wax not much else is getting into it, and you still have a pretty nice natural finish to it. Plus, it helps keep the wood smooth to the touch.
Click to expand...
No, no, no. Wax does nothing to protect wood.
 
If you’ve used oil on it already, then you need to stay with an oil-based finish. It seeps deep into the grain and stays there. I finish A LOT of I were you, here’s what I’d do:

50-50 Tung Oil and Mineral Spirits mix. For one coat. Apply 3-4 lights coats of sanding sealer. Let them dry 2 hours between coats. That’s dewaxed shellac and denatured alcohol (50-50). Lightly scuff sand that. 320 grit paper. Then apply an outdoor poly sealant with UV protection. Spraying that is best, but light brush coats work too. Apply 5-6 coats allowing 4-6 hours of dry time between. Maybe longer in your humidity.

That will give you a tough, UV resistant finish. If you’re careful, you can just retouch the poly layer each spring and avoid heavier refinishing.

If you want to DM me, then I’m happy to discuss more.
 
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BW Lion said:
I don’t know. Like acetone, I think denatured alcohol is very light and has a high level of evaporation. I’m uncertain of its’ compatibility with oil-based stains or tung oils.

I only use denatured alcohol as a final wipe of the surface to remove any residual contamination

I know mineral spirits are petroleum-based and are capable of dissolving/thinning other much heavier oils.
Click to expand...
Thanks!
 
BW Lion said:
I don’t know. Like acetone, I think denatured alcohol is very light and has a high level of evaporation. I’m uncertain of its’ compatibility with oil-based stains or tung oils.

I only use denatured alcohol as a final wipe of the surface to remove any residual contamination

I know mineral spirits are petroleum-based and are capable of dissolving/thinning other much heavier oils.
Click to expand...
Yes both are very volatile/ evaporate at low temperatures. I am not sure either. I just know that alcohol is added to fragrance oil to make perfume/ cologne.

So much to learn...
 
BW Lion said:
I found this handy chart.


Click to expand...
Awesome! Thanks! It's always nice to have charts like this. I am trying to learn more about finishing. It can be such an art.

Regarding the OP. I was thinking conversion varnish at one point, but it is nasty to work with, and you need to have a sprayer. I also don't know if it works outdoors. I sprayed a maple stair tread with it once. Man is that stuff tough when it cures. Also, I think the cure temps range is very narrow.
 
Well, you have spent so much energy, time, and money to put this table in order. If nothing came of it in the end, then it's probably worth understanding that it's pointless. It's easier for you to buy a new table than to repair it endlessly.
I had such an old table that I was constantly messing with. I spent a lot of money on its restoration. In the end, it was only enough for a couple of months. One day I just got tired of it. I decided to buy new furniture and found a store at www.gardenfurniture.co.uk with great prices. After reading the reviews, I ordered new furniture. Finally, my torment stopped.
 
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