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dunkej01

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the guys being bantered about are a lot of all timers. So height never negated their drive, ability, etc.

that said when you look at the 330 kids in the NCAA field or the > 700 that participate in D1 wrestling, height plays a factor.

not saying one side is right or wrong. there generally are outliers to every question
 

CSauertiegPSU

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the guys being bantered about are a lot of all timers. So height never negated their drive, ability, etc.

that said when you look at the 330 kids in the NCAA field or the > 700 that participate in D1 wrestling, height plays a factor.

not saying one side is right or wrong. there generally are outliers to every question
FWIW, my argument is not that height doesn’t play a factor, but more so that by the time he’s wrestling in college he’ll probably be able to carry 141 fairly easily. Even if he never shoots up, odds are he’s gonna get taller than he was as a HS freshman.
 

dunkej01

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FWIW, my argument is not that height doesn’t play a factor, but more so that by the time he’s wrestling in college he’ll probably be able to carry 141 fairly easily. Even if he never shoots up, odds are he’s gonna get taller than he was as a HS freshman.
he very well may, but as said previously he is old for his grade and he has the look today of being a head of the curve physically. Could he thicken up and keep his flow maybe....... Or maybe he could thicken up and become a mauler. As long as it gets the job done in march for the lions, im here for it.

Its a hunch, its banter, its all good.

#itrustincael
 

johnstownsteel

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FWIW, my argument is not that height doesn’t play a factor, but more so that by the time he’s wrestling in college he’ll probably be able to carry 141 fairly easily. Even if he never shoots up, odds are he’s gonna get taller than he was as a HS freshman.
It’s funny because last I saw him I remember thinking to myself that it looked like he grew a couple inches.
 

El-Jefe

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#itrustincael
This.

Cael is notorious for waiting to go after recruits -- sometimes (Davis) even waiting until the kid publishes a finalist list without PSU on it.

He knows height and length are athletic factors, and has seen enough of Gibson first hand to evaluate.

And here he is, deep into the Gibson sweepstakes from the start.
 
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CSauertiegPSU

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It’s funny, previously I could’ve been considered a Gibson hater (not personally, just concerns about him peaking in HS like mentioned here previously). And I still think that could be true. My only real argument is that I think he could be a 141 in college. But hey, maybe he’s a 133 and Davis is at 125 the whole time. It’s all conjecture at this point.
 

El-Jefe

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It’s funny, previously I could’ve been considered a Gibson hater (not personally, just concerns about him peaking in HS like mentioned here previously). And I still think that could be true. My only real argument is that I think he could be a 141 in college. But hey, maybe he’s a 133 and Davis is at 125 the whole time. It’s all conjecture at this point.
The plot thickens when we land McGowan and Kasak.
 

johnstownsteel

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It’s funny, previously I could’ve been considered a Gibson hater (not personally, just concerns about him peaking in HS like mentioned here previously). And I still think that could be true. My only real argument is that I think he could be a 141 in college. But hey, maybe he’s a 133 and Davis is at 125 the whole time. It’s all conjecture at this point.
I’m with you for not only Gibson but also the Bassetts and all those other kids that eat, sleep and breath wrestling 24/7 at the compound. Peaking and maturing early is a thing as is burning out from a sport after doing since they could walk.
 

nitlion6

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No. But he has freakish long arms. Also when you shake his hand you realize they are also freakishly large for a guy his size
He has freakish strength also.
Still not a tall dude, which is the parameter being used to dismiss the kid's success possibilities at higher weights.
 

BigFella235

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Catrabone committing to UM isn’t as much of a surprise to me since his dad was a 3x AA there. I know these things go the other way all the time (see Gabe and Max Dean choosing Cornell over Minny), but they usually get a fairly long look from the kid and family
 
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johnstownsteel

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Catrabone committing to UM isn’t as much of a surprise to me since his dad was a 3x AA there. I know these things go the other way all the time (see Gabe and Max Dean choosing Cornell over Minny), but they usually get a fairly long look from the kid and family
I was mildly surprised Van Ness didn’t go to Rutgers.
 

BrockBronson

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I’m with you for not only Gibson but also the Bassetts and all those other kids that eat, sleep and breath wrestling 24/7 at the compound. Peaking and maturing early is a thing as is burning out from a sport after doing since they could walk.
I agree they are working too hard it’s just like getting too smart in elementary school. This is a crazy thought in my opinion. I tip my cap to all those kids who work hard. I would rather have a Mason Gibson who works too hard and has a serious work Ethic than a kid who comes & goes at practices, gives a lackadaisical effort. Burn out is rare in wrestlers who are loving it.

I don’t know most of them from that group but do know a few from being at M2. They are some of the hardest workers when they come and seem to really enjoy the sport. Looking back over the last twenty years, most of the greats worked really hard and never stopped throughout. When zain train got locked in he became obsessed and still seems that way. I see Gibson having a really high ceiling and could end up being a career 125.
 
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CSauertiegPSU

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I agree they are working too hard it’s just like getting too smart in elementary school. This is a crazy thought in my opinion. I tip my cap to all those kids who work hard. I would rather have a Mason Gibson who works too hard and has a serious work Ethic than a kid who comes & goes at practices, gives a lackadaisical effort. Burn out is rare in wrestlers who are loving it.

I don’t know most of them from that group but do know a few from being at M2. They are some of the hardest workers when they come and seem to really enjoy the sport. Looking back over the last twenty years, most of the greats worked really hard and never stopped throughout. When zain train got locked in he became obsessed and still seems that way. I see Gibson having a really high ceiling and could end up being a career 125.
It’s not as simple as just being burnout, though. There’s also learning curves and development peaks. You see guys peak all the time in HS. Again, I’m not saying this is definitely going to happen. For all we know Mason and Bo Bassett and others become the next 4Xer, but there are valid concerns about long-term projections for kids like that.
 
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District four

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It’s not as simple as just being burnout, though. There’s also learning curves and development peaks. You see guys peak all the time in HS. Again, I’m not saying this is definitely going to happen. For all we know Mason and Bo Bassett and others become the next 4Xer, but there are valid concerns about long-term projections for kids like that.
Some kids peak in high school and it ends up being a higher peak then most in college. Generational types. Hope mason and Bartlett are these types they are fun to watch.
 
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royboy

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It’s not as simple as just being burnout, though. There’s also learning curves and development peaks. You see guys peak all the time in HS. Again, I’m not saying this is definitely going to happen. For all we know Mason and Bo Bassett and others become the next 4Xer, but there are valid concerns about long-term projections for kids like that.
Didn't most of us project greater success for the Alton brothers than they finally achieved?

And maybe the guys who wrestle a lot before college are more susceptible to injury?
 
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CSauertiegPSU

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Didn't most of us project greater success for the Alton brothers than they finally achieved?

And maybe the guys who wrestle a lot before college are more susceptible to injury?
Each case is different, which is why it’s hard to say. You look at the Altons or Chance or Manville as guys who didn’t really work out, but then there’s also Gable and Mark Hall and Spencer who did. So there’s no real formula.

My thought with the McCort group is that their training, both wrestling and weight room wise, is ahead of what more MS/HS kids have at that age, so you wonder if there’s a ceiling there for development.
 

El-Jefe

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Each case is different, which is why it’s hard to say. You look at the Altons or Chance or Manville as guys who didn’t really work out, but then there’s also Gable and Mark Hall and Spencer who did. So there’s no real formula.

My thought with the McCort group is that their training, both wrestling and weight room wise, is ahead of what more MS/HS kids have at that age, so you wonder if there’s a ceiling there for development.
Was thinking the same about their weight training. It's accelerating their development now, but the field will catch up on that part once puberty hits. Plus it risks injury if they're not properly supervised -- IDK Bill Bassett's background but will note that "wrestling coach" is not a qualification for strength coaching.

The other variable with all of these guys is practice intensity -- which varies by team and by club.
 

82bordeaux

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Each case is different, which is why it’s hard to say. You look at the Altons or Chance or Manville as guys who didn’t really work out, but then there’s also Gable and Mark Hall and Spencer who did. So there’s no real formula.

My thought with the McCort group is that their training, both wrestling and weight room wise, is ahead of what more MS/HS kids have at that age, so you wonder if there’s a ceiling there for development.
I'm much less skeptical of Basset's trajectory than Gibson's. Bo is beating kids that are more physically mature than him. Gibson has been beating kids that he is more physically developed than. Whether he has a skill set that will allow him the same level of success against kids that shave remains to be seen.
As far as burnout, I think that is only a factor if kids are not putting in the work because they want to. If it is to please a parent or coach, burnout is a definite risk. If the athlete is doing it for self fulfillment, they should be fine.
 

BrockBronson

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These are all good points. I agree, hard work separates people for sure. When I think about hard workers back in the day and how they panned out, many did well and continued to win & there are definitely a fair share who didn’t. Those names are stated above. I think every individual is different and it’s like rolling the dice. You have to teeter that line of working hard and pushing it but don’t want to get crazy. I heard story of Nico, Spencer, Jimmy G, Zain, Hidlays, Teasdale etc really used to work hard. Out of that group some did amazing and some not so amazing. I don’t think it’s fair to say how anyone is going to pan out.
To be a complete wrestler you have to be working hard around the clock and focusing on various areas (technique, strength, mental toughness, etc)
To me it looks like Gibson is peaked out size wise and clearly through puberty. I think Bassett will get bigger and taller. He seems to just be hitting puberty. Both have very high ceiling and I hope they both end up in Happy Valley.
 
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tullfan68

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Each case is different, which is why it’s hard to say. You look at the Altons or Chance or Manville as guys who didn’t really work out, but then there’s also Gable and Mark Hall and Spencer who did. So there’s no real formula.

My thought with the McCort group is that their training, both wrestling and weight room wise, is ahead of what more MS/HS kids have at that age, so you wonder if there’s a ceiling there for development.
Altons were purely injury if they hadnt gotten those shoulder injuries they both could have been NCAA champs!
 

District four

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These are all good points. I agree, hard work separates people for sure. When I think about hard workers back in the day and how they panned out, many did well and continued to win & there are definitely a fair share who didn’t. Those names are stated above. I think every individual is different and it’s like rolling the dice. You have to teeter that line of working hard and pushing it but don’t want to get crazy. I heard story of Nico, Spencer, Jimmy G, Zain, Hidlays, Teasdale etc really used to work hard. Out of that group some did amazing and some not so amazing. I don’t think it’s fair to say how anyone is going to pan out.
To be a complete wrestler you have to be working hard around the clock and focusing on various areas (technique, strength, mental toughness, etc)
To me it looks like Gibson is peaked out size wise and clearly through puberty. I think Bassett will get bigger and taller. He seems to just be hitting puberty. Both have very high ceiling and I hope they both end up in Happy Valley.
I think wrestling is like boxing it's mostly mental. You can have the physique and all the talent in the world but if your head isnt in it then it's an uphill battle
 
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GogglesPaizano

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I think wrestling is like boxing it's mostly mental. You can have the physique and all the talent in the world but if your head isnt in it then it's an uphill battle

I agree, at the elite level, wrestling is 30% physical and 70% mental. I have often thought, what if we could clone and transplant Jason Nolf's brain in our kids at every weight.

 
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El-Jefe

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MI postseason preview. Davis is a clear favorite to win states.

Barr has a major obstacle -- 2x 189 champ and Iowa State commit Manny Rojas has dropped to 171. Rojas took 3rd at Illinois Matmen (aka Son of Midlands) this year. That may be the best postseason matchup at any weight across the country.

 
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El-Jefe

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That's a pretty sizeable drop especially since he already won two titles at 189.
Not really. Rojas competed in the 174 range the past 2 offseasons.

Facundo was the reason he went 189 the last 2 years.

Rojas couldn't beat Facundo (except on the slam DQ when he was behind), but was good enough to win MI big school states 2x up a weight.
 

WEAREPSU_LI

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Not really. Rojas competed in the 174 range the past 2 offseasons.

Facundo was the reason he went 189 the last 2 years.

Rojas couldn't beat Facundo (except on the slam DQ when he was behind), but was good enough to win MI big school states 2x up a weight.
Gotcha, that makes sense.