PSU lost for many other reasons, but...
- Thread starter PennSt8er
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not really because it wasn't targeting. but PSU has bigger problems than refs.
I mean we can agree to disagree. Led with his shoulder on a defenseless receiver. Not worth an ejection but maybe 15 yards.
I thought your OL played well for a good chunk of the game. Same with your DL. Finding a seam for Higdon was difficult and there was a point where McSorley got some time and made some really good throws when your receivers beat the coverage. Moorhead’s game plan last year was to attack the seams which our LBs usually cover and a heavy dose of Barkley. Geseki ate Bush’s lunch last year, and Barkley ran wild. This year we were able to contain the big play and force you guys into third and long. At some point the UM LBs just kept shooting the gaps and ignoring the possibility of the RPO.
UM has better game-day coaching and PSU has a hobbled up QB who has regressed due to injury and lack of faith in his WR corps (and maybe his OL). PSU had the potential to keep things close, and this blocked-kick-for-TD-that-wasn't-allowed could have sparked some momentum and energy. But, in the end, we've seen the same crap game after game from this PSU team--which indicates it needs some coaching changes, IMO.
A few officiating thoughts....
That was not targeting IMO.
Agree that the block below the waist looked like it in real time. That’s the first replay I’ve seen.
Did not think DPI against Metellus was legit, but haven’t seen a replay - was he holding the PSU receiver’s arm or were they fighting each other off? Doesn’t really matter given the fumble right after, I suppose.
Thought they let too much OL holding go in both directions.
The official who called the block below the waist was thirty yards downfield and could not possibly have seen whether there was any contact below the waist or not. It was one of those “I think I saw something” calls, which I hate from officials.
Perhaps, but it was more than just 7 points lost on that BS call. The momentum shift was seismic. Instead of a tie game we end up playing from well behind most of the game. It is rarely the # of penalties refs call to influence the game. It is when, changing momentum, and a bunch of no calls on things that would have been big. They have gotten smarter about how they control the games. That said, we still would have lost because McSorely isn't McSorely at this point. We need Stevens in there because he is healthy and can do more than a banged up McSorely.
It’s legal to lead with your shoulder and hit a defenseless player as long as you don’t hit him in the head. It was a shoulder to shoulder hit.
The beginning of the game was filled with horribly biased officiating. But after they dig PSU in a hole, exhaust the defense, and make them take chances to catch up, they tighten the officiating up so everyone forgets the bias and only remembers a lopsided final score.
While it likely wouldn't have changed the outcome to remove the bias, the score shouldn't have been so lopsided. We'll never know.
Trace missed passes he doesn't normally miss. He has even a decent first half, and it's a very different game. UM has a very good defense, but we didn't have a chance with Trace playing yesterday. He needed a week off to heal up properly.
In real time it absolutely looked like targeting which is why three officials threw a flag. But replay showed that even though he launched towards the players head the contact was with the shoulder. I understand why it was called in real time and agree with it being overturned.
If you watched the Alabama game last night and saw Alabama's first TD, you would have seen a real targeting call against LSU, and see it get overturned in favor of the home team.
I was shocked by that overturn. How do replay officials do that and get away with it? It was as if "We can't allow this cause LSU is already down a key man."
College football officiating is gradually ruining the sport. I can see why the rest of the world loves soccer. So simple, and much easier to officiate. But to Americans who grew up with football, so boring.
I was shocked by that overturn. How do replay officials do that and get away with it? It was as if "We can't allow this cause LSU is already down a key man."
College football officiating is gradually ruining the sport. I can see why the rest of the world loves soccer. So simple, and much easier to officiate. But to Americans who grew up with football, so boring.
BIG officiating seems to have evolved IMHO. Used to be the Big 2, now it seems to be more concerned with preserving playoff and bowl viability.
At this point if PSU was a top five team playing a low ranked Michigan team, I suspect officials would be leary of ruining their conference's playoff hopes.
At this point if PSU was a top five team playing a low ranked Michigan team, I suspect officials would be leary of ruining their conference's playoff hopes.
The “block in the back” call on PSU on a punt return that was from the side? There was an ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL block by UMich on a punt return about 3 possessions earlier that wasn’t called. Surprise surprise surprise.
Calling Hamler for “signaling for a fair catch”?
Incompetency, plain and simple.
And there was one hold that was SO SO OBVIOUS in the UMich backfield about 6-8 posters here all called it at the same time. No call.....but I think the blocker got credit for a tackle in the game statistics.
Yeah, the calls all even out....my ass they do. Here’s how they even out: the referee flags us, the side judge flags us, the back judge flags us, they ALL flag us. THAT’s how it all evens out in the Big (2)(12).
Calling Hamler for “signaling for a fair catch”?
Incompetency, plain and simple.
And there was one hold that was SO SO OBVIOUS in the UMich backfield about 6-8 posters here all called it at the same time. No call.....but I think the blocker got credit for a tackle in the game statistics.
Yeah, the calls all even out....my ass they do. Here’s how they even out: the referee flags us, the side judge flags us, the back judge flags us, they ALL flag us. THAT’s how it all evens out in the Big (2)(12).
You can’t target with shoulder pads.......and the reciever’s hands are touching/ trying to catch the ball
I'm not sure it was even that high. It looked like the initial contact was arm-to-arm from the best replay angle that they had. I regained a small amount of faith in the zebras when they changed that one.
If it had been Witvoet and crew the player would have been ejected, and then they would have ejected one or two more on subsequent plays just for good measure.
At that point in time, the damage was already done in the first half. The deficit was too big, the defense was too tired. The game was already over. PSU only had a prayer if every bounce went their way. In that circumstance, it doesn't take much to ensure that team loses... just a few perfectly timed bad calls.
There is no doubt that B10 officiating crew was not going to allow the B10 to lose millions (no B10 team in playoff) by allowing psu to upset mich.
I think the worst call was the ball being spotted short when Trace slid instead of diving for a first down. It at least should have been reviewed. The block in the back that was more of a block in the side was also a bad call IMO, but one that happens fairly often.
The block below the waist was a shitty, ineffectual block, but it still made contact. That was the correct call IMO.
And if a defenseless Penn State receiver was hit like that by a Michigan db and the penalty flags were picked up, you guys would be crying over it for a decade.
Penn State 4-35
Michigan 9-80
Making this the sixth game in a row in our series (at least) that Michigan has been flagged for more yards than Penn State.
The block below the waist was a shitty, ineffectual block, but it still made contact. That was the correct call IMO.
And if a defenseless Penn State receiver was hit like that by a Michigan db and the penalty flags were picked up, you guys would be crying over it for a decade.
Penn State 4-35
Michigan 9-80
Making this the sixth game in a row in our series (at least) that Michigan has been flagged for more yards than Penn State.
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I think you make a valid point in your first paragraph; however, WRT to the 2nd one, Penn State vs Michigan in 2005 and Penn State vs Iowa in 2008 prove differently.
Not necessarily. If it somehow could be managed, the Big Ten would be better off financially having a team in the Sugar Bowl (along with the Rose) as opposed to a playoff team (and one in the Rose). The difference between the Fiesta or Peach and a playoff is only $2mm. Nice money, but divided 14 ways barely covers the cost of onion dip for a week.
I honestly do not believe that the officials try to orchestrate playoff appearances. Nor do I believe that they are even close to competent enough to do so. I do believe, however, that one or two former officials hated PSU and made many calls to undermine PSU's chances especially against Michigan. While I think this happened, I also think it is more than 10 years in the rearview mirror at this point.
Most of us knew what the officiating was going to be like 5 days before the game started, it was just a matter of when, mostly a big scoring play, i bet you when 3 flags were thrown most PSU fans were not surprised. The game itself is tainted by officiating across the country, like news, you can't trust it. On the targeting, AO's shoulder pad hit his bicep, not his shoulder, wasn't even close to targeting.
Penn State got beat by a better team not complaining about that, plus poor clock management, and CJF has to do some soul searching on his assistants. Most outsiders can spot this, a tough decision but one that has to be made. Coach has to decide on a 90% trace or a100% Tommy. I was surprised to also see Journey run with authority on his 2 carries. In his PC Franklin also said you'll be seeing RS this game, he's said that the last 3 weeks.
Penn State got beat by a better team not complaining about that, plus poor clock management, and CJF has to do some soul searching on his assistants. Most outsiders can spot this, a tough decision but one that has to be made. Coach has to decide on a 90% trace or a100% Tommy. I was surprised to also see Journey run with authority on his 2 carries. In his PC Franklin also said you'll be seeing RS this game, he's said that the last 3 weeks.
I think that a case can be made for bias in the past. For the most part I think it's incompetence.
Impact and timing is much more important than quantity. I can't believe I have to explain this. I'd rather have a holding call against my team late in a blowout than a TD taken off the board early in a tight game. If I was consistently biased for one team in the series, I'd try to cover my tracks by making it appear (at least to the ignorant sheep) that the team I was helping actually had more penalties.
If you believe in a ref conspiracy, sure. I think such a notion is nutty. Like the Q-anon BS.
Carry on.
ivan brunetti said:
If you want to ignore reality, so be it. I know other people who do that too, and they think the earth if flat.
They also threw in a makeup call after the illegal block call on the blocked FG return.
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