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PSU - Kentucky Citrus Bowl Official Game Thread

So, easier to go 50% on consecutive TD drives assuming a stop by the D than converting any combination of a FG/TD on a subsequent drive following a successful FG? I think you're awful at math. And reality.

Dear God. The odds of us converting that 4th down and scoring a TD are far superior to us making the first FG and getting a stop with enough time left to drive down the field and score either a FG or a TD especially given our ST situation. Again, you and I both know elite coaches (Saban, Dabo, Smart, Riley, etc) would never kick a FG in that situation because they're going to trust their offences to get the 7 yards instead of the alternative. Franklin needs to pull his head out of his ass.
 
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It sucked ZERO momentum out...you didn’t see the defense bouncing around? They just didn’t stop Kentucky’s power runs...the momentum wasn’t lost until giving up successive first downs
Well, I said BEFORE the FG that it was the wrong move. We will never know if going for it would have resulted in us getting a TD and winning the game. We do know, however, that after kicking the FG, we never got the ball back, and lost. I stand by my reasoning, and you can stand with your result.
 
So, unfortunately it seems that Windsor’s disciplinary issue may have made a difference in stopping the run in the fourth quarter...
Stunning that people think relying on Pinegar to make two FGs and then having to face OT is better odds than leaving the ball in the hands of your playmakers who have just scored two consecutive TDs — and if that for some reason doesn’t work, you still have them pinned inside their fifteen. But I guess this is at an impasse, because people have dug in their heels on their respective positions on this. What we know is that what Franklin did failed. The other decision, which I believe would have been the correct decision: We’ll never know.
 
Given that there were over 4 minutes left and PSU had all 3 timeouts and Kentucky could do nothing on offense in the 4th quarter. I don't think there was a right or wrong decision.
Not REALLY 4 minutes (for PSU). Not unless one assumes KY fumbles on their first play. Even with a three and out, there's considerably less than 4 minutes for PSU to drive the field.

Question: with the game on the line, with limited opportunities, who do you put the game on?
1) McSorley riding momentum in the red zone for the lead
2) a kicker who missed 2 reasonably easy field goals earlier in the game?
 
So, being honest makes me a dick and an ass. Awesome I'll take it instead of lying. Try it some time.
If you don’t know the difference between being honest and being a dick then you have serious problems. Some of the classiest gentlemen I know are honest to a fault. You can be honest without being a dick. And stating your opinion doesn’t mean anyone who thinks differently is lying...figure that out and you will be a much more reasonable person.
 
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Not deferring was important especially trying the long pass on first down, leaves 2nd & 3rd and long, then punt.

Still dropping passes, Windsor & Cam hurt the D in the long run, Ricky ran well, O- line has to give the qb a little more time, Clifford's has a great arm and is accurate needs to work on stepping in the pocket.

I thought overall UK had better athletes on both lines, with their experience.
Good working points for future reference HazLion. ;)
 
Please read rest of thread. Thanks.



You having no idea is exactly the problem.

Watched the game with a former D1 assistant coach and former D1 TE. Hands down, they said it was idiotic to take the FG. The correct answer was to keep the ball on the ground, keep the clock moving, and win with the TD. McSoreleys Achilles heal has been his risk taking. The 3rd down pass was stupid. It stopped the clock as well. The camera clearly showed JF telling McSorely to keep it on the ground. The last series was a disaster and embarrassment.
 
Stunning that people think relying on Pinegar to make two FGs and then having to face OT is better odds than leaving the ball in the hands of your playmakers who have just scored two consecutive TDs — and if that for some reason doesn’t work, you still have them pinned inside their fifteen. But I guess this is at an impasse, because people have dug in their heels on their respective positions on this. What we know is that what Franklin did failed. The other decision, which I believe would have been the correct decision: We’ll never know.
That’s fine, but not sure why those who did not want the FG automatically assume that when PSU gets the ball back that they wouldn’t have tried for a TD; a second FG would just be a backup plan, not the primary goal.
 
If you don’t know the difference between being honest and being a dick then you have serious problems. Some of the classiest gentlemen I know are honest to a fault. You can be honest without being a dick. And stating your opinion doesn’t mean anyone who thinks differently is lying...figure that out and you will be a much more reasonable person.

Reasonable isn't getting upset because I can honestly say Trace was awful for 3 quarters today. People had no problem bashing Hack when he had far less time to throw and far less talent around him. Right? We can be honest about Trace as well.
 
No, we don't. Take away EVERYTHING ELSE and kicking the FG in the fourth was still the right call. Even if you look at the raw data, we were about 50% or so on 4th down conversions all year. Pinnegar was at 71% (the made up '50%' statistic notwithstanding). Much better chance to make the FG and hand over to your D, where if they get a stop, you can play for a FG to force overtime or for the win. If you fail on the fourth down conversion, it's game over with 4+ minutes left, because you don't have time to play for two FGs after that since you HAVE to try to win. Limits your options - this isn't hard.
Pinegar was actually at 65% season to date prior to the FG, 15/23. The "made up" stat was prefaced with OOTTOMH. Why would a failure on 4th and 6th have equated to "game over"? With a made FG OR with a failed 4th and 6, we still needed a defensive stop either way. So a 65% success rate kicker would need to make 2/2 in your scenario, not favorable odds, JUST to force an uncertain OT. A failed 4th and 6 has KY starting at the 15, meaning a likely short field for a possible game winning TD drive, IF the D was able to force a 3 and out. 9 was HOT in 4th quarter, we had KY D on the ropes. That's the issue in my mind. If it was a "normal" 4th quarter I would be more inclined to agree with the FG attempt. But 9 had KY totally on their heels (outscored them 14-0 prior to the 4th down), and CJF didn't take advantage of it. He took the conservative "book" route.
 
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Watched the game with a former D1 assistant coach and former D1 TE. Hands down, they said it was idiotic to take the FG. The correct answer was to keep the ball on the ground, keep the clock moving, and win with the TD. McSoreleys Achilles heal has been his risk taking. The 3rd down pass was stupid. It stopped the clock as well. The camera clearly showed JF telling McSorely to keep it on the ground. The last series was a disaster and embarrassment.

So, run on 4th and 6 for the first? Sanders and McSorley were averaging less than four yards a carry. I don’t disagree that going for it is a good call - it’s a better call with less time left and even if you fail, you still have some time if your D can make a stop (and we saw that they couldn’t). But I’m not ready to pin this loss on Franklin betting on his D to make a stop and then play for a FG or the win. TM and the offense were playing well the fourth quarter but the time left makes you think you have more options with the FG.
 
Pinegar was actually at 65% season to date prior to the FG, 15/23. The "made up" stat was prefaced with OOTTOMH. Why would a failure on 4th and 6th have equated to "game over"? With a made FG OR with a failed 4th and 6, we still needed a defensive stop either way. So a 65% success rate kicker would need to make 2/2 in your scenario, not favorable odds, JUST tpo force an uncertain OT. A failed 4th and 6 has KY starting at the 15, meaning a likely short field for a possible game winning TD drive, IF the D was able to force a 3 and out. 9 was HOT in 4th quarter, we had KY D on the ropes. That's the issue in my mind. If it was a "normal" 4th quarter I would be more inclined to agree with the FG attempt. But 9 had KY totally on their heels (outscored them 14-0 prior to the 4th down), and CJF didn't take advantage of it. He took the conservative "book" route.

If you don’t score the TD, you’re counting on your D to make a stop. Same if you make the FG. We saw they couldn’t even though UK was going to run 90% of the time. Moot, but easier to rage about not going for it since we don’t know the result. If he goes for it and fails, few would applaud the ‘guts’ it took to lose swinging.
 
So, run on 4th and 6 for the first? Sanders and McSorley were averaging less than four yards a carry. I don’t disagree that going for it is a good call - it’s a better call with less time left and even if you fail, you still have some time if your D can make a stop (and we saw that they couldn’t). But I’m not ready to pin this loss on Franklin betting on his D to make a stop and then play for a FG or the win. TM and the offense were playing well the fourth quarter but the time left makes you think you have more options with the FG.
I think the point being made is once we got the 1st down inside the 20, we should have kept it on the ground, knowing you have 4 downs to get 10 yards. Two incomplete passes in that series made Franklin’s decision much more difficult, although I believe he should have gone for it and not kicked the FG
 
So, run on 4th and 6 for the first? Sanders and McSorley were averaging less than four yards a carry. I don’t disagree that going for it is a good call - it’s a better call with less time left and even if you fail, you still have some time if your D can make a stop (and we saw that they couldn’t). But I’m not ready to pin this loss on Franklin betting on his D to make a stop and then play for a FG or the win. TM and the offense were playing well the fourth quarter but the time left makes you think you have more options with the FG.

The issue started before 3rd down. On 3rd down, JF and Rahne should demand that Trace or Sanders take the short yards. We get to 4th and 3 yards. Call TO, run another solid run play to get the 1st down. Trace has thrown late in games when we absolutely wanted it on the ground to run the clock out. Again, poor coaching.
 
I think the point being made is once we got the 1st down inside the 20, we should have kept it on the ground, knowing you have 4 downs to get 10 yards. Two incomplete passes in that series made Franklin’s decision much more difficult, although I believe he should have gone for it and not kicked the FG

Fair enough. Make one of our two missed FGs and we’re likely not in that scenario.
 
If you don’t score the TD, you’re counting on your D to make a stop. Same if you make the FG. We saw they couldn’t even though UK was going to run 90% of the time. Moot, but easier to rage about not going for it since we don’t know the result. If he goes for it and fails, few would applaud the ‘guts’ it took to lose swinging.
Omar, 2020, others, and I would have applauded going for the win, as I truly yelled several expletives once the FG team entered the field. I don't doubt that a failed 4th and 6, in tandem with D failure to hold, would have brought out the vultures as you suggest.
 
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Omar, 2020, others, and I would have applauded going for the win, as I truly yelled several expletives once the FG team entered the field. I don't doubt that a failed 4th and 6, in tandem with D failure to hold, would have brought out the vultures as you suggest.

The other issue is that when you are at that position on the field, a Trace run becomes much more difficult given the shrunken field. It’s not like you can clear space by simply having your receivers stretch the field.

So the bigger question is what play you feel comfortable with there. I can’t say there is a wideout like a Robinson or Godwin that you have make a play. I guess the TE I suppose. I’m not sure any run there gets you comfortable thinking you make it.

I agree 100% that the issue was with 1st and 2nd down calls. They should have been runs to at least make your playbook a bit more flexible later. You would have killed more clock too. When they threw I almost felt like they wanted to score quickly to leave clock in the event that KY then drove and kicked a FG.
 
Again, regarding the running clock, had it stopped when we got first downs or went out of bounds, we easily would have had an extra couple of plays at the end of the game.

And don’t be a smartass, because you’re showing that you’re actually a dumbass. The clock stops when the runner goes out of bounds and is restarted after the ball is set (NCAA Rule 3, Section 3, Article 2e, item 1), and the clock stops and is restarted on the snap when the team gets a first down (NCAA Rule 3, Section 3, Article 2d, item 3). It wasn’t happening at all throughout the third quarter and there would have been significant time added back to the clock.
 
Not really....they won’t even be bowl eligible next year. Kentucky does not reload.

You may be selling our recruiting a little short. We do have some good players. Maybe not the caliber of some of the guys Penn State lands, but they’re solid.

Rose is a good back and if Wilson ever learns to pull the ball when he should on the read option, he could rack up some rushing yards.

I can see Kentucky going anywhere between 5-7 and 7-5 next year. We do lose a lot so anyone expecting 8+ wins is a bit wishful IMO.

Good game today. Your QB is tough as nails.
 
For a basketball school, it absolutely is. And beating a an old blue blood in the process makes it extra sweet.

Happy New Year all...

Exactly. Everyone knows our football program isn’t exactly filled with tradition so this was a huge deal to us.

Picture Penn State basketball in the elite 8 vs UCLA with a chance to go to your second final four in school history.
 
Again, regarding the running clock, had it stopped when we got first downs or went out of bounds, we easily would have had an extra couple of plays at the end of the game.

And don’t be a smartass, because you’re showing that you’re actually a dumbass. The clock stops when the runner goes out of bounds and is restarted after the ball is set (NCAA Rule 3, Section 3, Article 2e, item 1), and the clock stops and is restarted on the snap when the team gets a first down (NCAA Rule 3, Section 3, Article 2d, item 3). It wasn’t happening at all throughout the third quarter and there would have been significant time added back to the clock.

The clock doesnt stop on first downs until the last 5 minutes of each half. Speed up rules from last year. They momentarily stop to set the chains but no more than a second or so.
 
Exactly. Everyone knows our football program isn’t exactly filled with tradition so this was a huge deal to us.

Picture Penn State basketball in the elite 8 vs UCLA with a chance to go to your second final four in school history.

So go celebrate the huge deal on your message board and bring some of your more obscene brethren with you.
 
Here is a stat you all might like our RBs only had 18 carriers of the 41 rushes.....19 if you count the fake punt..
 
What? If we go for it and fail (assuming we'll not settle for anything less than a TD) we're backed into a corner with only one way to win: get a stop on D, and drive the field for a TD. If we kick the FG (which we did), and get a stop on D (required in both scenarios), we can then play for a FG to force OT, or for a TD and the win. If you are a DC and know a team has to drive 80 yards for a TD, OR only 60 to get into FG range, which would you prefer to defend?

You have been fighting a losing battle with you PSU comrades on the field goal issue. Always take the points if the down and distance for a first down or a score is significant or if the game clock is your enemy. 4th and 6 was a huge risk. PSU had defense and 3 timeouts left. Franklin made a logical decision. Snell and PSU defensive alignment ruined Franklin’s plan.

Unfortunately, you cannot convince anyone

Have a great New Year
 
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