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Proposed Changes after watching the tournament

Agoodnap

Agoodnap

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Sep 27, 2015
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If got several I'd like to see but I'll start with one for now. Let's discuss and add additional changes you'd like to see...

Put the scale right next to the scorers table and have the wrestlers weigh-in RIGHT before they step on the mat to wrestle. Simple actually...each wrestler would come out from the tunnel and step on the scale. The official would verify, or not, they meet weight and send them out to wrestle.

There were serious discrepancies between the sizes of many wrestlers throughout the tournament. They've got to be hurting themselves. As a side, I suspect the Hall -Valencia result would have been different.
 
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Agoodnap said:
If got several I'd like to see but I'll start with one for now. Let's discuss and add additional changes you'd like to see...

Put the scale right next to the scorers table and have the wrestlers weigh-in RIGHT before their match.

There were serious discrepancies between the sizes of many wrestlers throughout the tournament. They've got to be hurting themselves. As a side, I suspect the Hall -Valencia result would have been different.
Click to expand...
Maybe a 2 hour weigh in but right before the match might be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
 
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No more 2 bonus pts for a mff... OSU got 4 bonus pts for medical forefeits.that is an idiotic rule. However it is funny that the buckeyes were gifted FOUR points and still lost..PSU got zero,so we actually spotted them FOUR pts AND won..lol congrats OSU
 
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ggcpsu said:
Maybe a 2 hour weigh in but right before the match might be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
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Sorry I confused you. I meant that they weigh-in RIGHT before they step on the mat to wrestle. This should eliminate serious cutting.
 
westernpaproud said:
No more 2 bonus pts for a mff... OSU got 4 bonus pts for medical forefeits.that is an idiotic rule. However it is funny that the buckeyes were gifted FOUR points and still lost..PSU got zero,so we actually spotted them FOUR pts AND won..lol congrats OSU
Click to expand...

The response to having NO bonus points will most likely result in a different kind of problem. If team P has and absolute stud wrestling.....and team O has a very weak wrestler at that weight. and team O is up by 2 points in the Championship......Team O decides the medically Forfeit so Team P only gets 1 point instead of a guaranteed 2 1/2 or 3. Do you think every team would refuse to take advantage of it? It could happen at any point in the competition. After checking the pairings you can use a medical forfeit to get the best match-up in the next round while giving your wrestler extra rest while also making certain the opposing team gets no bonus points.
 
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Still not sure why we have replay in wrestling most often used to give a wrestler a break very rarely over turns anything
 
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I'd vote for 50% bonus points or something similar on the back side.

Also with the FRL crew, docking team points for a coach hugging his victorious kid, or chucking headgear to fans is just plain dumb. Ejections would be more effective, and should be reserved for infractions like Desanto's.
 
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I think on Saturday they Medal Round wrestlers weigh in at their same time. The wrestlers in the finals weight in at six, two hours before they start.
 
I like the scale near the mat theory. Allow a 2 lb. growth (hydration) allowance for the match vs morning weigh in. Give 2 more pounds for any additional matches wrestled in the same day. Hold weigh ins in the morning with shoes and singlet required so that isn't an issue during matside weigh in or simply allow 3 pounds at initial matside weigh in.
 
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Not a call for a new rule but I never understood how a wrestler could score a 2pt TD by grabbing his opponents ankles while holding his toe in bounds...

then have the ref award the TD, simultaneously blow his whistle and signal out of bounds without any change in position. This happens over and over.
 
JohnnyHandsome said:
Not a call for a new rule but I never understood how a wrestler could score a 2pt TD by grabbing his opponents ankles while holding his toe in bounds...

then have the ref award the TD, simultaneously blow his whistle and signal out of bounds without any change in position. This happens over and over.
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Really, you don't like that? I love those edge TDs. Ref shouldn't blow it dead till they are oob, though.
 
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By far, the one rule I want to see changed is for throwing the brick. You throw the brick and lose the challenge, you lose a point AND the other wrestler chooses starting position. You have GOT to make Tom Ryan think twice before throwing the lunger brick.

Either that, or give the ref discretion in issuing a penalty. During the review, if the ref deems that the coach was just trying to get a breather for his kid, he can issue a penalty.
 
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Lots of good ideas. When I saw the original post, I thought, "oh boy, here we go", but you all have addressed some real issues. I'm not sure that there are simple solutions to some of them, but there's no reason why we as fans shouldn't ask for some changes.....
 
pawrestlersintn said:
By far, the one rule I want to see changed is for throwing the brick. You throw the brick and lose the challenge, you lose a point AND the other wrestler chooses starting position. You have GOT to make Tom Ryan think twice before throwing the lunger brick.

Either that, or give the ref discretion in issuing a penalty. During the review, if the ref deems that the coach was just trying to get a breather for his kid, he can issue a penalty.
Click to expand...

And I agree that this might be my biggest pet peeve. I'm not singling out tOSU, but if your wrestler is cutting too much weight or he has other conditioning issues, that's on you and on him, not the fault of the opponent. I love watching wrestlers with superior conditioning and those wrestlers who constantly fade in the third period should never be given an "out" for their own issues....There are wrestlers who win matches because they can go full-bore for 7 minutes (or more) and that's how it should be.
 
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pawrestlersintn said:
By far, the one rule I want to see changed is for throwing the brick. You throw the brick and lose the challenge, you lose a point AND the other wrestler chooses starting position. You have GOT to make Tom Ryan think twice before throwing the lunger brick.

Either that, or give the ref discretion in issuing a penalty. During the review, if the ref deems that the coach was just trying to get a breather for his kid, he can issue a penalty.
Click to expand...
I would be happy if the opponent got to choose position if the challenge failed. Lose a point is intriguing, I think they would need to determine the number challenges that actually fail by percentage...if the stats show that most challenges fail, then deduct a point. Or could make the wrestler do 30 burpees instead, that should negate the lunger.

I would like to see a one hour weigh-in prior to your first session of the day. No more finals with a wrestler weighing 10 to 15 pounds over their weight class. Pretty sure I read that Jden Cox said he weighed close to 220 for some of his NCAA finals matches.
 
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I like the strategy aspect of guys cutting hard(ish) and then bulking up on Saturday at NCAA'S (if they survive to the finals) vs guys wrestling at a more ideal weight. Worked for Zahid, didn't work for BoJo.
 
westernpaproud said:
No more 2 bonus pts for a mff... OSU got 4 bonus pts for medical forefeits.that is an idiotic rule. However it is funny that the buckeyes were gifted FOUR points and still lost..PSU got zero,so we actually spotted them FOUR pts AND won..lol congrats OSU
Click to expand...
i have seen this a couple of times. It would hurt PSU and the teams that usually go for Bonus Points. We would never want to lose the opportunity for bonus in an early round match of a guy like Nolf or Zain due to MFF, even if the MFF was legit. To say nothing of the opportunity for gamesmanship. The rule as is is the only legit answer.

Let's take a silly scenario:

They decide to start Saturday night at 197 to make the Bo - MyMar match the last match of the season. Team race on the line. PSU enters 184 down by 4.5 points. A Bo MD just like in the dual wins it. After 2 periods Bo is up 7-0 with the choice to take bottom. Any chance MyMar channels his inner Rodney Dangerfield and says "ow my arm!!!"?
 
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ejb25 said:
I wish they would implement a point for push out. That's the one rule I like from freestyle. I think it makes wrestlers more aggressive by having them move forward and not backwards.
Click to expand...

Something needs to be done with the stall rule of going out bounds. It is so arbitrarily enforced it’s infuriating.
 
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pawrestlersintn said:
By far, the one rule I want to see changed is for throwing the brick. You throw the brick and lose the challenge, you lose a point AND the other wrestler chooses starting position. You have GOT to make Tom Ryan think twice before throwing the lunger brick.

Either that, or give the ref discretion in issuing a penalty. During the review, if the ref deems that the coach was just trying to get a breather for his kid, he can issue a penalty.
Click to expand...
I don't think it is right to penalize the wrestler for a call that we all know won't be overturned most of the time.
 
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aalion said:
i have seen this a couple of times. It would hurt PSU and the teams that usually go for Bonus Points. We would never want to lose the opportunity for bonus in an early round match of a guy like Nolf or Zain due to MFF, even if the MFF was legit. To say nothing of the opportunity for gamesmanship. The rule as is is the only legit answer.

Let's take a silly scenario:

They decide to start Saturday night at 197 to make the Bo - MyMar match the last match of the season. Team race on the line. PSU enters 184 down by 4.5 points. A Bo MD just like in the dual wins it. After 2 periods Bo is up 7-0 with the choice to take bottom. Any chance MyMar channels his inner Rodney Dangerfield and says "ow my arm!!!"?
Click to expand...

This is one of the reasons I like fewer possible bonus points in the consolation bracket. It seems MFF is more likely here, but it it keeps things equal. If we don't want quarter points, maybe .5, 1, and 1.5?
 
aalion said:
i have seen this a couple of times. It would hurt PSU and the teams that usually go for Bonus Points. We would never want to lose the opportunity for bonus in an early round match of a guy like Nolf or Zain due to MFF, even if the MFF was legit. To say nothing of the opportunity for gamesmanship. The rule as is is the only legit answer.

Let's take a silly scenario:

They decide to start Saturday night at 197 to make the Bo - MyMar match the last match of the season. Team race on the line. PSU enters 184 down by 4.5 points. A Bo MD just like in the dual wins it. After 2 periods Bo is up 7-0 with the choice to take bottom. Any chance MyMar channels his inner Rodney Dangerfield and says "ow my arm!!!"?
Click to expand...

That’s an injury default. Not a MFF
 
1) do away with the stalling OB rule and just make it a push out rule

2) I would also get rid of the MMF/Inj mf bonus points in a tournament. In a dual if you dont have a guy thats your programs problem so giving 6 is a deterrent.

at a tournament, a guy not competing shouldnt be a benefit to someone else. meaning the moving on wrestler should get his advancement and placement point but thats it. giving them a bonus for another guys injury is just silly. giving it on the same level as a pin, is just ridiculous.

3) challenges at a tournament should not be reviewed by the refs on the mat. if the ref wants to review his own call fine, but not coach challenges. should be an independent person on coach challenges. its the ncaas they can afford it.

4) losing challenges should give the other wrestler choice of position too. its being used for lungers, for momentum killers, etc and not just for its intended purpose in my opinion.

5) i think weigh in for the finals should be 1 hour before just like the other rounds. giving these guys all day to hydrate, get their grub on gives an advantage.

6)gabe dean should do cornell PbP instead of Dake.
 
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aalion said:
i have seen this a couple of times. It would hurt PSU and the teams that usually go for Bonus Points. We would never want to lose the opportunity for bonus in an early round match of a guy like Nolf or Zain due to MFF, even if the MFF was legit. To say nothing of the opportunity for gamesmanship. The rule as is is the only legit answer.

Let's take a silly scenario:

They decide to start Saturday night at 197 to make the Bo - MyMar match the last match of the season. Team race on the line. PSU enters 184 down by 4.5 points. A Bo MD just like in the dual wins it. After 2 periods Bo is up 7-0 with the choice to take bottom. Any chance MyMar channels his inner Rodney Dangerfield and says "ow my arm!!!"?
Click to expand...
If MyMar takes the mat, he's getting pinned, so you might want to change your scenario just a little.
 
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aalion said:
OK... so MyMar doesn't take the mat at all. Same thing.
Click to expand...

Not even remotely the same thing. No kid who made it all the way to NCAA finals is going to not take the mat when he’s fully able.

However i could possibly see a scenario where a kids getting hiss ass kicked and quits to preserve a team title.
 
billrag said:
And I agree that this might be my biggest pet peeve. I'm not singling out tOSU, but if your wrestler is cutting too much weight or he has other conditioning issues, that's on you and on him, not the fault of the opponent. I love watching wrestlers with superior conditioning and those wrestlers who constantly fade in the third period should never be given an "out" for their own issues....There are wrestlers who win matches because they can go full-bore for 7 minutes (or more) and that's how it should be.
Click to expand...
Agree with this... it is amazing how few times they now have to run Injury Time since the rule change a few years ago giving the other wrestler a choice of position. It has cut down on the "injuries" it seems to me about 90%. Unfortunately they have replaced it with something else that can be used as a lung timeout. Not as bad cuz they are limited, but maybe they should consider a penalty of some sort for losing a challenge.
 
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I say this all the time. If a challenge is thrown allow, for the continuation of action and score the points that were earned. For example, during a scramble if the ref missed the initial takedown go back and fix it but allow the simultaneous reversal or escape to stand.
 
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psualt said:
I say this all the time. If a challenge is thrown allow, for the continuation of action and score the points that were earned. For example, during a scramble if the ref missed the initial takedown go back and fix it but allow the simultaneous reversal or escape to stand.
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Agreed
 
I'd like to see riding time earn one point per minute.

This may help some in eliminating clamming up on the bottom to avoid a MD or Tech.. It's also something that should be rewarded, dominating your opponent with 3-4mins riding time but only awarded one point just doesnt seem right
 
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PSUcup1 said:
Not even remotely the same thing. No kid who made it all the way to NCAA finals is going to not take the mat when he’s fully able.

However i could possibly see a scenario where a kids getting hiss ass kicked and quits to preserve a team title.
Click to expand...
I said it was a silly scenario to make a point... but if I recall correctly many on here think a coach had a wrestler MFF out of a round 1 match (ending his chance to win the tourney) in order to get a better draw an earn more points on the backdraw... so it isn't totally of the wall.

The fact remains that it can and would be gamed. Even if legit - let's say MyMar really did get seriously hurt at the end of the semis... how pissed (and suspicious) would we be if he didn't come out for the finals? If he got a Nolf like injury in a scramble with 10 seconds left... limps out the last 10 to get the placement points... then defaults?

Bottom line, you have to give the wrestler who shows up ready to wrestle the opportunity to get the max points that he would get if his opponent showed. Sometimes will work against PSU. Sometimes will work for PSU. That is why you have to factor in luck and bad officiating and bad draws and long bus rides into your planing, and make sure you have enough to win even overcoming lose things.
 
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aalion said:
I said it was a silly scenario to make a point... but if I recall correctly many on here think a coach had a wrestler MFF out of a round 1 match (ending his chance to win the tourney) in order to get a better draw an earn more points on the backdraw... so it isn't totally of the wall.

The fact remains that it can and would be gamed. Even if legit - let's say MyMar really did get seriously hurt at the end of the semis... how pissed (and suspicious) would we be if he didn't come out for the finals? If he got a Nolf like injury in a scramble with 10 seconds left... limps out the last 10 to get the placement points... then defaults?

Bottom line, you have to give the wrestler who shows up ready to wrestle the opportunity to get the max points that he would get if his opponent showed. Sometimes will work against PSU. Sometimes will work for PSU. That is why you have to factor in luck and bad officiating and bad draws and long bus rides into your planing, and make sure you have enough to win even overcoming lose things.
Click to expand...

I’m not saying the rule should change
Im just saying those 2 scenarios are different (default vs MFF)
 
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