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PIAA Sports for Fall 2020, Ongoing Discussion

The human race survived the Bubonic plague as well.....not sure what that means. But if the discussion is about the wisdom of playing contact sports in the fall season...........I simply believe that it isn't worth the risk right now. I am a proponent of starting high school sports on 1/4/21 and having 3 season, winter, fall and then spring. It buys time, it allows schools to return to the primary reason they exist (education) and hopefully return to some semblance of normal. The protocols that would be required (or should be) especially the frequency of testing is a concern for me (school districts are already financially strapped). There are many details to consider. We have pro athletes and college athletes publicly voicing their concerns over testing and safety protocols......we should not be protecting high school athletes as well?
A discussion I have not seen is this......what will high school football, be in reality, if it does "kick off." Several school districts have already cancelled. Leagues have taken action to delay. Even should games begin.....what is the response to the inevitable positive test. 14 days without a contest.....like the Marlins? What happens to the scheduled opponents during the shutdown of the impacted team? Will "outbreaks" be more frequent on 0-4 teams? I'll wager they will. These are concerns for D1 programs......and I wonder how many kids will simply not play under the current situation (making some marginal programs even weaker).
It means life goes on without destructive shutdowns that have not proven to accomplish anything. Do we exercise caution? Seems prudent. Shelter/protect those most vulnerable? Absolutely. But you were advocating perhaps never having “contact sports” again. You seem to be modifying that stance in this post? Great - that is a step in a more realistic direction.
 
No surprise here since all schools will be virtual until the new year. I feel for these kids in the city. No school or sports can't be good for anyone.

 
This evening I drove by the Northampton Twp athletic complex here in Bucks Co and the fields were packed with youth baseball, football and soccer. It looked like a typical August evening around these parts. We'll see what transpires in the upcoming weeks.
My son has been coaching youth baseball since the middle of June. They’ve had a fairly full season with no issues for the players or parents.
 
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If you have remote learning, then you shouldn't be having fall sports. A lot of schools are starting the year remote with hopes of being back in the classroom in October. Until then, there should be NO fall sports.
 
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7% of the people in Lancaster who have contracted covid have died, though.
Not true ... not even close. Cdc projects 10 have it for every one testing positive ... which means that the rate is 0.7%. Which includes initial cases mistreated and retirement home issues etc. Median age of those dying is 78, which just so happens to be the life expectancy ... hmmmm
 
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7% of the people in Lancaster who have contracted covid have died, though.
Heavy on nursing home fatalities early on . As of late , less hospitalizations out of the positive cases and less ICU admissions . The statistics support what we largely know. The elderly are very vulnerable, and the young not so much. Zero deaths under age 20. One death age 25 in a nursing home resident with co-morbidities. 282 deaths over age 80 or 70% of all fatalities. 96.5% of the deaths are in the over 60 age group. 84% of the fatalities were nursing home residents.
 
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Yeah, I thought they were headed in that direction. Del Val is a small league, and Academy Park (one of the five teams in the league) announced in the past week that they were suspending all fall sports.

After talking with a number of ADs, refs, assignors, and coaches in recent weeks, I'll be surprised if there are any PIAA sports in SE PA this coming fall. Even if the PIAA were to go forward with fall sports, I believe all of the SE PA leagues have pushed the start of their season back until either the end of Sep or Oct. (I think Sep. 21st or 22nd is the earliest any of them are positioned to start.) COVID-19 cases are rising in recent days in Philadelphia and in Delaware counties, which doesn't help the situation, though Bucks, Montgomery, and Chester counties had declining rates.
 
Yeah, I thought they were headed in that direction. Del Val is a small league, and Academy Park (one of the five teams in the league) announced in the past week that they were suspending all fall sports.

After talking with a number of ADs, refs, assignors, and coaches in recent weeks, I'll be surprised if there are any PIAA sports in SE PA this coming fall. Even if the PIAA were to go forward with fall sports, I believe all of the SE PA leagues have pushed the start of their season back until either the end of Sep or Oct. (I think Sep. 21st or 22nd is the earliest any of them are positioned to start.) COVID-19 cases are rising in recent days in Philadelphia and in Delaware counties, which doesn't help the situation, though Bucks, Montgomery, and Chester counties had declining rates.
Interested to see if sports go forward how some hurdles will be cleared: shortage of officials (many are older and have health issues), transportation issues.....how many athletes on a bus? Enough drivers and buses available to account for social distancing on trips to away contests......If schools are virtual or hi-bred will sports be varsity only? I'm concerned that many junior high and junior varsity athletes will have issues with getting transportation to school if they are home instructed.
What will be the protocol if and when a positive test is reported after team A plays team B. Are both shut down? This would have an immediate impact on a minimum of 4 teams.
 
shortage of officials (many are older and have health issues)

you raised a number of good issues, but I'm quoting just one. I don't think many folks are aware of the issue with refs. As you wrote, most of them are getting up there in years, and some do have health issues. It varies by sport, but the majority of them are in sports where wearing a mask while reffing is not practical. Then there is the question of whistles. Many have experimented with electronic whistles, but have found them to be inadequate for controlling the game, mostly because the electronic whistles are not loud enough. So you have refs who for the most part are older, and they can't wear a mask while reffing, and then have to keep putting a whistle to their mouth throughout the game. In short, they have to do a number of things that scientists and doctors are advising against, just to ref games for which they don't get paid a lot of money. Because of this, I know of quite a few PIAA refs that have elected to go inactive (basically, not ref) for the fall season. And these are some of the elite refs, that routinely do postseason games/matches/competitions.
 
you raised a number of good issues, but I'm quoting just one. I don't think many folks are aware of the issue with refs. As you wrote, most of them are getting up there in years, and some do have health issues. It varies by sport, but the majority of them are in sports where wearing a mask while reffing is not practical. Then there is the question of whistles. Many have experimented with electronic whistles, but have found them to be inadequate for controlling the game, mostly because the electronic whistles are not loud enough. So you have refs who for the most part are older, and they can't wear a mask while reffing, and then have to keep putting a whistle to their mouth throughout the game. In short, they have to do a number of things that scientists and doctors are advising against, just to ref games for which they don't get paid a lot of money. Because of this, I know of quite a few PIAA refs that have elected to go inactive (basically, not ref) for the fall season. And these are some of the elite refs, that routinely do postseason games/matches/competitions.
Just let the fans officiate from the stands...they’re never wrong.:)
 
How often does a football referee have close and continued contact with a player? BAsically never
 
you raised a number of good issues, but I'm quoting just one. I don't think many folks are aware of the issue with refs. As you wrote, most of them are getting up there in years, and some do have health issues. It varies by sport, but the majority of them are in sports where wearing a mask while reffing is not practical. Then there is the question of whistles. Many have experimented with electronic whistles, but have found them to be inadequate for controlling the game, mostly because the electronic whistles are not loud enough. So you have refs who for the most part are older, and they can't wear a mask while reffing, and then have to keep putting a whistle to their mouth throughout the game. In short, they have to do a number of things that scientists and doctors are advising against, just to ref games for which they don't get paid a lot of money. Because of this, I know of quite a few PIAA refs that have elected to go inactive (basically, not ref) for the fall season. And these are some of the elite refs, that routinely do postseason games/matches/competitions.
I chair the OCF in NY. This is a committee that functions to communicate, discuss and hopefully resolve issues and concerns in our 11 sections (like Pa. districts) between our schools and officials organizations. I see that about 12% of major league baseball umpires opted out this season. I'm guessing we will see this (minimum) in all sports. We are looking into some mechanical adjustments (positioning of officials) such as umpires behind the pitcher and linesman moving away from sidelines etc....in various sports as well as reducing contact (perhaps remote pregame meetings and coin tosses etc). The "can of worms" that lingers is, who is responsible for testing officials? I can't imagine schools just permitting independent contractors coming in contact with their students and coaches without having testing protocols. So many loose ends that the "let them play" sentiment does not address.
 
How often does a football referee have close and continued contact with a player? BAsically never
Thanks for your opinion. I can only tell you as the person who works with 16 state organizations (officials) here in NY, that membership is extremely concerned with safety protocols.
 
Almost constantly in football. On the same mat in wrestling. Handling the ball repeatedly in basketball....

You need 15 minutes of constant close contact with an infected person to be considered "exposed". That never happens in any of those sports.
 
You need 15 minutes of constant close contact with an infected person to be considered "exposed". That never happens in any of those sports.
Lol this again? Stop the game every 14 minutes and separate everyone for 2 minutes then go back at it! There, fixed it!
 
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Any of this going on in NY?

Not to my knowledge (football) yet. We are officially paused with the earliest possible practice date of 9/21. Frankly, optimism is scarce. Governor Cuomo has not yet approved "out of season" workouts for our interscholastic programs. This has many up in arms as travel soccer, baseball, softball and lacrosse are all in full swing. However, interscholastic sports are competitions between SCHOOLS. Our schools are approved to reopen around 9/7. In the league I am coordinator, I did a survey today.....of 17 schools: 6 are remote only, 10 are hybrid instruction (2 in school 3 out) and 1 is full attendance (private school).
The full remote school districts hope to phase into hybrid in October.
The logistics of trying to kick off a sports program when at least 50% of your students are not on campus are endless. Now varsity athletes may drive and find rides to school for practice and meeting the bus for contests.....however, junior high and many junior varsity athletes would be stranded at home without parents to drive them. Cash strapped school districts (with driver and bus shortages as well) are in no position to bus athletes to practice.
 
Lol this again? Stop the game every 14 minutes and separate everyone for 2 minutes then go back at it! There, fixed it!
https://tribhssn.triblive.com/footb...sing-hand-held-whistles-if-there-is-a-season/
It amuses me that Bob Lombardi doesn't see a problem either. The officials organizations are singing a different tune. Pa. is down about 1400 officials (total since 2009), now this is a national problem and not in anyway unique to Pa. Yet Lombardi is quoted as saying....."if they don't wanna work....they don't have to work...." Perhaps the shortage will go away like he assumed the governor's objections to sport would?
 
Yeah, that's not how it works.
Remember that show Supermarket Sweeps? That's me at the grocery store with a stopwatch set at 14 minutes. If it goes off before i check out, I just leave the cart and run out the door and try another store. No mask needed.
 
https://www.aspenprojectplay.org/co...ough-officials-when-youth-sports-games-return
https://tribhssn.triblive.com/coron...-worsen-wpial-shortage-of-football-officials/
http://www.oconeeenterprise.com/sports/article_9d892dd4-c778-11ea-812d-2329d6a84ae4.html

With many schools being unable to field sub varsity teams and others simply choosing not to have fall sports, the shortage may be mitigated.
But overall, states are losing officials at an alarming rate (even prior to COVID 19). One of the primary reasons is verbal abuse from parents and know it all fans.....its hard to imagine :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, that's not how it works.
You don't seem to understand how it works either. The 15 minute guideline represents an average of exposure time needed to cause transmission, but one could inhale infectious droplets within seconds of contact, or never inhale infectious droplets even after 15 minutes of contact.
 
You don't seem to understand how it works either. The 15 minute guideline represents an average of exposure time needed to cause transmission, but one could inhale infectious droplets within seconds of contact, or never inhale infectious droplets even after 15 minutes of contact.
Correct.
So the CDC guideline is DO NOT spend 15 minutes in contact with anyone?
Here I've been staying 6 feet from folks and wearing a mask.
 
Okay. Here is what should happen next, PIAA should ask each District chairman to survey their schools on one question and one question only:

Since it looks like Governor Wolf, Pennsylvania Department of Education, and PA Department of Health recommendation of No sports for grades k-12 until January 1, 2020 will stand would your school go against this recommendation and start sports on August 24, 2020.

I would think it would be an overwhelming NO. Then The PIAA has a duty to support this decision and shut down until Jan 1.

if they do not, then it will be a mess. Some schools will start and some won’t. Kids will want to transfer, etc. communities will be divided, school boards will get crucified.
 
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I know one thing; that if the P.I.A.A.moves ahead and allows fall sports to be played by a bunch of middle school and high school aged student-athletes, that makes Kevin Warren and the B1G Conference look like a bunch of fools.idiots/cowards. I've got to believe that there is more structure, and safety precautions that the NCAA and the B1G conference were taking compared to high school athletics.

If the B1G sticks with their horrendous decision to postpone (read cancel) the 2020 fall sports seasons, the B1G will not remain as the #2 Power 5 conference. Will drop down into a tie for 4th. best with the PAC-12.

Counting all fall sports for all 14 universities in the B1G, this is going to cost the schools and the conference Billions of dollars. Might as well throw in the winter sports teams for all 14 schools also as there is no way in heck that there will be college basketball in the B1G this winter...not with Kevin Warren in "charge." Same with spring sports in the B1G, forget it.

Covid-19 is not magically going to go away just because a vaccine or two comes online. First it would take several months to make it available to the masses and a ton of people have already responded in polling that they will not get a vaccine if one were available. Also, much like the flu, Covid-19 could well become seasonal. Where it comes back around say in the cold weather months.

But again, it is bizarre to say the least that thousands of high school aged athletes can play sports in the midst of this pandemic but college student-athletes in the B1G cannot?!? :confused::confused::confused::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Think about if the other three P5 conferences play, all the smaller colleges that are allowing games still play, high schools and middle schools play, and there are no problems....that could be the biggest blunder in the history of leadership of any type.
 
I know one thing; that if the P.I.A.A.moves ahead and allows fall sports to be played by a bunch of middle school and high school aged student-athletes, that makes Kevin Warren and the B1G Conference look like a bunch of fools.idiots/cowards. I've got to believe that there is more structure, and safety precautions that the NCAA and the B1G conference were taking compared to high school athletics.

If the B1G sticks with their horrendous decision to postpone (read cancel) the 2020 fall sports seasons, the B1G will not remain as the #2 Power 5 conference. Will drop down into a tie for 4th. best with the PAC-12.

Counting all fall sports for all 14 universities in the B1G, this is going to cost the schools and the conference Billions of dollars. Might as well throw in the winter sports teams for all 14 schools also as there is no way in heck that there will be college basketball in the B1G this winter...not with Kevin Warren in "charge." Same with spring sports in the B1G, forget it.

Covid-19 is not magically going to go away just because a vaccine or two comes online. First it would take several months to make it available to the masses and a ton of people have already responded in polling that they will not get a vaccine if one were available. Also, much like the flu, Covid-19 could well become seasonal. Where it comes back around say in the cold weather months.

But again, it is bizarre to say the least that thousands of high school aged athletes can play sports in the midst of this pandemic but college student-athletes in the B1G cannot?!? :confused::confused::confused::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


You can’t compare college athletics and high school athletics when considered shutting down.

never the less, PIAA will eventually shut it down. Just a matter of time.

And the SEC, ACC, and Big 12 will either shut down before their start date or not finish their season.
 
Think about if the other three P5 conferences play, all the smaller colleges that are allowing games still play, high schools and middle schools play, and there are no problems....that could be the biggest blunder in the history of leadership of any type.


Last time I checked, I do not think there is a college conference in PA at any level that is moving ahead with Fall Sports. Correct me if I am wrong?
 
Last time I checked, I do not think there is a college conference in PA at any level that is moving ahead with Fall Sports. Correct me if I am wrong?

You would be mistaken. Temple is in the American Athletic Conference, which is still planning to play football.
 
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