Phils are Shutting Cliff Lee Down Again/Hamels Trade Talks(OT)

[PSUriseANDfire]

Has elbow "soreness" again. Lee has always had a bit of a rubber arm but he had these issues last year and then Sandberg continued to have him throwing 105+ pitches a night. I know some people don't believe in pitch counts(nowadays I don't know given that pitchers arms are now trained from a young age to pitch to a pitch count). It's the same people who still like to use Wins/Losses as a measure of how good a pitcher is. That was one of many of Sandberg's mistakes last year. I guess you could say they were rookie mistakes but he's been around as a player and coach now forever. Looks like Lee might be fried for good now. That could have been just ready to happen either way.

They are going to be terrible either way, 70 wins would be optimistic but if Lee is done and once the Hamels trade happens this team could be historically bad. The nightmare would be that they try to carry it out to the All Star Break and Hamels gets injured. This trade will be huge to the future success of the franchise. Reports are that the Yankees have came the closest to landing Hamels which surprised me given their prospects. Maybe the Phillies just leaked that to tempt the Red Sox into finally including Swihart?
This post was edited on 3/8 5:16 PM by PSUriseANDfire

 

[Mister Magoo]

I don't think the Sox deal for a starter until mid-season.


They will want to see how the current staff shakes out. I'm sure there will be a flop or two. And, a Buccholz injury. But, they do have 3 very good LHP prospects who finished last year in AAA. Henry Owens, Eduardo Rodriguez(Got him from O's in Andrew Miller trade) and Brian Johnson. I think one or two of them will get a shot when someone falters. They'll deal for a starter if in contention and current staff struggling. Just my .02

 

[EPC FAN]

I just read this morning that the Yankees are players for Hamels.***nm

nm

 

[delcoLion]

It's early for sure but right now, I'd take the under with that 70 number

We'll see, but I don't see the run production.

This post was edited on 3/8 7:34 PM by delcoLion

 

[drunkandproud]

Good buddy Paul Hagen of MLB and ex-Philly Daily News was discussing a night or two back the number of players in MLB last year who had 15 or more dingers last year. Considering that # and considering that the Phillies traded their #1 and #3 HR hitters last year, pretty sobering that the current projected OF for the Phillies (Seizmore, Revere, and Dom Brown) COMBINED for 15 dingers. Not sure how this team scores runs this year to make a run at the 80 wins that Gillick thinks they were capable of winning before Lee got shut down.

This team has the ability to be bad, EPIC-ly bad on the offensive front.

 

[Mister Magoo]

I'm surprised Yanks didn't sign Scherzer

I'd like the Sox to be cautious with their position prospects. Might be putting a formidable, cheap line-up together. Bogaerts,, Betts, Swihart, Moncada and Castillo. Plus some vets like; Pedroia, Hanley and Panda.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Re: I'm surprised Yanks didn't sign Scherzer

Originally posted by Mister Magoo:
I'd like the Sox to be cautious with their position prospects. Might be putting a formidable, cheap line-up together. Bogaerts,, Betts, Swihart, Moncada and Castillo. Plus some vets like; Pedroia, Hanley and Panda.

You are right. I was just hoping that at some point the Sox would feel the need to do it. They are possibly a title contender. Getting Hamels would have to make them on of the favorites. And yeah nowadays prospects are like gold. That's why the Sox need to send us some prospects for Hamels haha. The Phillies have a few elite or semi elite prospects and that looks to be about it right now. After that there are some bench guys and maybe average starters.

The fact that the Yankees might have been close kind of scares me to be honest. Who aside from Judge would even be all that attractive in a package? I like him but not THAT much.

 

[Michael.Felli]

The Phillies have the most losses in the majors......this ain't news!!!!

Man!

We had GREAT years from 2004 through 2012. Give it a rest.

 

[Mister Magoo]

I doubt they give up Severino-P

I'm just not sure Sox are good enough to win it this year. I'd wait and sign Cueto or Zimmerman for $$$. Keep the prospects.

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Looks like Lee is most likely done. Surgery is on the table. He isn't quite on Halladay's level as far as all time greatness but he was great and so fun to watch. Loved how fast he worked. Age caught them both quick. Sucks.

 

[bkmtnittany1]

Bosox would be nuts to give up Swihart...switch hitting catcher with power from both side and a great arm...I am willing to take my chances with the staff we have...

 

[Cletus11]

the bigger question for me is how long will the Phils be down. You don't just rebuild an organization that is in that bad of shape overnight. Even if they get a few decent prospects for Hamels, their farm system still will be average at best and they have nothing left to mortgage to make it better. They can spend money, but they still will have a huge payroll this year and next with the legacy contracts. And if a few of those prospects end up not being that good, you are looking at upwards of a 8+ year run of non playoff caliber baseball considering the last 2 years plus 5-6 more. The last time Gillick was around he was lucky enough to have Rollins, Utley, Chooch, Hamels, Burrell, and Howard all in the pipeline. And then Gillick made a couple of great moves to fill in around those guys. What are the chances that the Phils have another 5-6 guys in the farm system that are of that caliber. Not very high.

 

[bkmtnittany1]

baseball is not like other sports....it takes a ton of time doing it right in baseball to go from the outhouse to the penthouse...philly would be smart to accept this as fact and put the dollars into the farm system...i dont follow them much being a Red Sox guy...but from what it sounds like on this site..Philly is in the shitter for at least 5 years..

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

Originally posted by bkmtnittany1:
baseball is not like other sports....it takes a ton of time doing it right in baseball to go from the outhouse to the penthouse...philly would be smart to accept this as fact and put the dollars into the farm system...i dont follow them much being a Red Sox guy...but from what it sounds like on this site..Philly is in the shitter for at least 5 years..

The biggest issue with this is that most people recognized this two years ago. It could have been minimized a great deal(the shitter phase) if the tough but necessary decisions were made. A lot of the core still had significant value and even then it was clear the team was about tapped out. Instead Amaro kept plugging along adding MORE veterans hoping for one last miracle run.

His Hunter Pence trade was ridiculous. Maybe it was a good thing they didn't move. He crippled things enough. I am still thinking the plan is to let Gillick handle things and Amaro moves to the front office elsewhere. Then they can bring a new GM in. If John Middleton is in charge of the organization by then like most expect they aren't going to go with someone even remotely similar and stuck in the 1950's as Amaro.