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Phillies 2015, up from here?

royboy

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2001
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Lewisville, NC
Quite a fall:
2011 -- 102-60 best record in baseball
2015 -- 63-99 worst record in baseball

Some developments that can be positive:
2nd half record of 34-37 was big improvement over pre-All Star break 29-62
Got rid of older, high paid talent -- Utley, Hamels, Revere, Papelbon; salary cap situation improved
Got rid of Manager Ryne Sandberg and GM Ruben Amaro, Jr.
Possible young stars in IF Maikel Franco and OF Odubel Hererra
Young pitchers Jerad Eickhoff and Aaron Nola look promising
Re-stocked farm system with prospects in trades
Already had been showing some progress in A and AA minor leagues
No sure-fire #1 draft choice in mind, but they'll get their choice

Still have some big needs -- starting pitching, power hitting, and overall run production

Could they possibly get to .500 for 2016?
 
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I think .500 is reasonable. I really want to see them go out and spend big money this year on players that won't cost them a draft pick. Price, Cespedes et all
 
Positives- I think Giles is a legit closer. Blanco could be OK. Altherr had his moments.

Negatory- I don't know what Buchanan's and DeFratus' contracts are, but both those guys have to go. THey are both a grenade with the pin pulled out of it. Likewise Williams and Harang, I don't know what the team owes these guys but whatever it is, please pay them to disappear.
 
Positives- I think Giles is a legit closer. Blanco could be OK. Altherr had his moments.

Negatory- I don't know what Buchanan's and DeFratus' contracts are, but both those guys have to go. THey are both a grenade with the pin pulled out of it. Likewise Williams and Harang, I don't know what the team owes these guys but whatever it is, please pay them to disappear.
Buchanan and DeFratus are both up for arbitration. They'll either be offered it or allowed to walk. Williams and harang are both FA.
 
Some comments:

Got rid of older, high paid talent -- Utley, Hamels, Revere, Papelbon

Papelbon was the best move of the ones you presented. The Phils overpaid him, and as the Nationals have discovered, the rumors about his clubhouse persona were accurate.

Revere was probably the 2nd best move of the list. The Phils probably gave up more than they should have for Revere. They traded Vance Worley and Trevor May to the Twins to get Revere. Worley was their #4 or #5 pitcher. May was their #2 prospect at the time (a right hand pitcher in the minors). Worley has never done nearly as well as he did in 2011 (with that team, and a little luck, almost any pitcher could have done well). May has not been an elite pitcher for the Twins. Revere was thought to be a younger and cheaper version of Michael Bourne. He was fast, and had a good glove. He stole a lot of bases, and he did cover a lot of ground in the OF. He was a pretty good hitter, average wise, this year. Alas, he had a terrible OBP because he basically never walked, and his arm was so poor that pretty much everyone ran on him unless he was just outside the infield. When the Phils traded Revere during the season to the Blue Jays, they received 2 minor league relief pitchers: Jimmy Cordero and Alberto Tirado. Cordero. Cordero has been clocked at 103 mph, which isn't bad. He was in AA this year, so there are still some questions about him. Tirado throws in the mid-90s, and also has a slider and a changeup. He was in high A ball with Toronto, and that's where he pitched for the Phils. The Phils definitely gave up more than they received for Revere.

Utley was an icon on the Phils. It's kind of sad that he wasn't able to end his career with the Phils, but with all the changes being made on the roster, it did make sense for the Phils to trade him.

Hamels is a tough one for me. The Phils received some excellent prospects in return for him, and the prospects really boosted the number of elite prospects in the Phils' system. The trade may turn out to be a positive one for the Phils. At the same time, Hamels was clearly the best pitcher the Phils had, so unless the prospects the Phils received really become good major leagues for the Phils, the Phils would have given away too much talent for a bunch of hopes. Only time will tell whether this was a good trade or a bad trade for the Phils.

Possible young stars in IF Maikel Franco and OF Odubel Hererra

Franco does look to be a star. Hererra is more more of a stretch to project him as a star. An everyday player? Probably. A solid player? Possibly. An elite player, or one that really makes a difference? I really have a tough time projecting Hererra as that.

salary cap situation improved

That's true. Then again, the Phils had to pay sizable amounts of $$ (toward this year's contract) for several of the players that they traded. They also have to pay Cliff Lee his buyout. Lastly, they've pretty much said that they don't see themselves getting into the bidding for any of the elite FAs this offseason. The Phils were almost printing money back when they were good, and selling out each night. Their attendance is down substantially this season, and until they show signs of being a serious contender I don't see their attendance being all that great. However, their new Comcast contract has kicked in, so they are getting a lot more for their TV rights. They are probably a year away from really having their cap situation improved (when Howard's contract is up), though they appear to be in better shape in this regard at the end of this season than they were at the end of last season.
 
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Quite a fall:
2011 -- 102-60 best record in baseball
2015 -- 63-99 worst record in baseball

Some developments that can be positive:
2nd half record of 34-37 was big improvement over pre-All Star break 29-62
Got rid of older, high paid talent -- Utley, Hamels, Revere, Papelbon; salary cap situation improved
Got rid of Manager Ryne Sandberg and GM Ruben Amaro, Jr.
Possible young stars in IF Maikel Franco and OF Odubel Hererra
Young pitchers Jerad Eickhoff and Aaron Nola look promising
Re-stocked farm system with prospects in trades
Already had been showing some progress in A and AA minor leagues
No sure-fire #1 draft choice in mind, but they'll get their choice

Still have some big needs -- starting pitching, power hitting, and overall run production

Could they possibly get to .500 for 2016?

Here is a site where you can get your fill of what's happening in the Phillies Farm System.

http://phuturephillies.com/
 
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Roy, click on Roster and the drop down will give you the salaries for the whole team going forward.
 
I struggle to see the Phillies as a 500 club in 2016.

Believe management saw Hamels trade as one where you stock future assets for a star that would not be a difference maker for the mediocre Phillies.

I enjoyed seeing the young players get a chance and show some energy on the field. The Phillies rode the aging core from their glory years too long.
 
Quite a fall:
2011 -- 102-60 best record in baseball
2015 -- 63-99 worst record in baseball

Some developments that can be positive:
2nd half record of 34-37 was big improvement over pre-All Star break 29-62
Got rid of older, high paid talent -- Utley, Hamels, Revere, Papelbon; salary cap situation improved
Got rid of Manager Ryne Sandberg and GM Ruben Amaro, Jr.
Possible young stars in IF Maikel Franco and OF Odubel Hererra
Young pitchers Jerad Eickhoff and Aaron Nola look promising
Re-stocked farm system with prospects in trades
Already had been showing some progress in A and AA minor leagues
No sure-fire #1 draft choice in mind, but they'll get their choice

Still have some big needs -- starting pitching, power hitting, and overall run production

Could they possibly get to .500 for 2016?
Kinda shows how fine the line is between winning and losing at the major league level, doesn't it? Can flip in a hurry. My Mets went the other direction, thankfully for Mets fans.
 
Kinda shows how fine the line is between winning and losing at the major league level, doesn't it? Can flip in a hurry. My Mets went the other direction, thankfully for Mets fans.

Yeah, the Mets were heading South as the Phils got good. While the Phils were dominating, the Mets made the necessary moves to overhaul the roster. They made some excellent selections in the draft, waited for them to develop, and now show the rewards. I don't think they are as good as some of the other teams in the playoffs, but you never know what will happen in postseason play. Plus, the Mets are positioned to be a strong team for several years.

The only caution I'd note is that the Nationals did many of the same things that the Mets did in terms of developing talent. They seemed poised to be in the postseason for several years. Alas, not everything went as planned this year, and they didn't even make the playoffs. Baseball is a funny game that way.
 
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Yeah, the Mets were heading South as the Phils got good. While the Phils were dominating, the Mets made the necessary moves to overhaul the roster. They made some excellent selections in the draft, waited for them to develop, and now show the rewards. I don't think they are as good as some of the other teams in the playoffs, but you never know what will happen in postseason play. Plus, the Mets are positioned to be a strong team for several years.

The only caution I'd note is that the Nationals did many of the same things that the Mets did in terms of developing talent. They seemed poised to be in the postseason for several years. Alas, not everything went as planned this year, and they didn't even make the playoffs. Baseball is a funny game that way.
True. As for this year's playoffs, who knows, but the Mets do have the pitching to go deep into the postseason. I'm looking at the Dodgers series for instance. deGrom, then Syndergaard against Greinke and Kershaw. If the Mets can split Greinke and Kershaw, they have a huge advantage in game 3 versus whoever the Dodgers throw out there against Matt Harvey. I see this as a 5 game series. Coin toss as to who wins.
 
Yeah, the Mets were heading South as the Phils got good. While the Phils were dominating, the Mets made the necessary moves to overhaul the roster. They made some excellent selections in the draft, waited for them to develop, and now show the rewards. I don't think they are as good as some of the other teams in the playoffs, but you never know what will happen in postseason play. Plus, the Mets are positioned to be a strong team for several years.

The only caution I'd note is that the Nationals did many of the same things that the Mets did in terms of developing talent. They seemed poised to be in the postseason for several years. Alas, not everything went as planned this year, and they didn't even make the playoffs. Baseball is a funny game that way.
One other thing. You mentioned necessary moves by the Mets. I think Sandy Alderson is an excellent GM. He knows what he's doing and he's pretty much deaf to the local tabloids when it comes to personnel moves. Sharp cookie.
 
One other thing. You mentioned necessary moves by the Mets. I think Sandy Alderson is an excellent GM. He knows what he's doing and he's pretty much deaf to the local tabloids when it comes to personnel moves. Sharp cookie.

Yeah, I almost mentioned his name, but decided to keep things on a more general level. Alderson is well respected, and he did not deviate from his plan despite what the press and fans were calling for. The Mets are lucky to have him as GM.
 
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