I moved this to its own thread because I think it deserves some discussion outside the dumpster fire PIAA finals thread. It is an interesting subject because we currently have no likely PA starters from the 2016, 2017 and 2018 classes.
Pennsylvania vs National Recruiting
- Thread starter Cali_Nittany
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I moved this to its own thread because I think it deserves some discussion outside the dumpster fire PIAA finals thread. It is an interesting subject because we currently have no likely PA starters from the 2016, 2017 and 2018 classes.
Hoping Hoffman changes that.
Also, just a theory on why we don't have any top ranked PA kids. Recently, Cael mentioned that a lot of top national recruits want to come to PSU. I think he said Bo really wanted to come, and Bo recruited them. So our recent success has led to landing top national recruits. And hence the top PA kids need to go elsewhere to start. Don't think you can question our recent recruits, Hall, Suriano, Berge, Manville, RBY, etc. That being said, I'd love to see Hoffman come to PSU.
Also, just a theory on why we don't have any top ranked PA kids. Recently, Cael mentioned that a lot of top national recruits want to come to PSU. I think he said Bo really wanted to come, and Bo recruited them. So our recent success has led to landing top national recruits. And hence the top PA kids need to go elsewhere to start. Don't think you can question our recent recruits, Hall, Suriano, Berge, Manville, RBY, etc. That being said, I'd love to see Hoffman come to PSU.
I would like to see Penn State win. They can recruit from Mumbai if necessary.
I wonder about fans who aren't alumni. What's to stop District VII fans, who have no ties to the University, from rooting for Iowa in a couple years? And kids grow up wanting to become a Hawkeye.
Not making a judgement either way, but watching that show put on at states yesterday, have we become too good for our own studs? We are the best wrestling state in the country after all. I thought Labriola was the most impressive wrestler in the finals.
I'm sure this thread will garner a lot of "in Cael we trust" chants. But it's worthy of intelligent discussion.
For the record, I think Spencer and Teasdale are better fits for Iowa. And I get that there wasn't room for Kemerer. Same for Labriola. Pletcher? Underrated.
It's just a crazy time. For years we watched these guys go to OSU, Iowa, even Lehigh. Now it's almost like we're too good. Crazy.
Not making a judgement either way, but watching that show put on at states yesterday, have we become too good for our own studs? We are the best wrestling state in the country after all. I thought Labriola was the most impressive wrestler in the finals.
I'm sure this thread will garner a lot of "in Cael we trust" chants. But it's worthy of intelligent discussion.
For the record, I think Spencer and Teasdale are better fits for Iowa. And I get that there wasn't room for Kemerer. Same for Labriola. Pletcher? Underrated.
It's just a crazy time. For years we watched these guys go to OSU, Iowa, even Lehigh. Now it's almost like we're too good. Crazy.
I mean we went after Spencer, are going after Teasdale. Labriola wasn't going to sit behind Hall and isn't a 184 pounder like Wittlake can be. Pletcher isn't better than Lee IMO and PSU was going hard after Red over Pletcher from my recollection
I'm with Clay. I don't care where they come from - just happy not to see a 58 freaking year gap between championships. That was an abomination.
Cael's got 3 World Team members coming in the next 2 years - that's good enough for me. If a kid from Pa is in a need weight and he's great, then full court press, but loyalty to the state is a 2-way street.
Edit - 4 world team members. Forgot Manville.
Cael's got 3 World Team members coming in the next 2 years - that's good enough for me. If a kid from Pa is in a need weight and he's great, then full court press, but loyalty to the state is a 2-way street.
Edit - 4 world team members. Forgot Manville.
I believe N. Nevills also reached out to PSU to see if there was interest in him when in HS as he was interested in PSU.
It's an interesting topic. I want PSU to win National Championships. Don't care where the wrestlers come from but bet with the strength of PA wrestling that there will always be plenty of PA kids on the roster.
It's an interesting topic. I want PSU to win National Championships. Don't care where the wrestlers come from but bet with the strength of PA wrestling that there will always be plenty of PA kids on the roster.
For you guys who followed States intently (Jefe, CS, dunk, dice, Cali etc) were there any younger guys who jumped out during the weekend? Any new names for Dice's list? The Hoffman duck under was great to watch. Thanks to who ever posted that. To good health and motors tuned this week.
Get used to a very national squad in the future. Cael is seeking elite wrestlers who not only have high collegiate goals but big international ambitions. I'm talking tops in their weight class nationally. Retherford, Nolf, and Joseph fit that mold as did S. Lee recently. Teasdale does but he's going west. So enter RBY... Nickal, Nevills, Hall, Suriano, Berge, the Lee's, Whittlake are all elite talents. Steveson or S. Nevills will be next.
No doubt the old reliable "wrestling belt" is Ohio, Pa, and NJ but HS wrestling is really picking up all over and there is significant talent across the country that the NLWC seeks out. The success of the club is also a priority and has been voted the top club in the country three out of the last four years. They are training future Olympians.
No doubt the old reliable "wrestling belt" is Ohio, Pa, and NJ but HS wrestling is really picking up all over and there is significant talent across the country that the NLWC seeks out. The success of the club is also a priority and has been voted the top club in the country three out of the last four years. They are training future Olympians.
I don't consider myself as knowledgeable as the other posters you mentioned. But the two wrestlers I was impressed with, who aren't committed to a school yet were Hoffman and Sam Hillegas. Sam is a Freshman gold medalist, AAA, at 113. He's currently ranked #2 in the country at 113 on Intermat
Labriola, next to a healthy Lee, was the best wrestler at states. Would love to see him at PSU, but with Hall and Joseph only freshman, there's no room. Wish Labriola was bigger to go 184, but no way he'll be bigger than 174. I actually see him at 165.
Back when RBY and Whittlake signed on, the discussion was that many of the top recruits coming to PSU maybe were willing to take less than a full ride. Perhaps many of the top PA studs were less willing to come with a partial scholarship, especially if they're getting full offers elsewhere.
PA produces by far the most guys who reach the highest base camp at Mt Everest, but the other 49 combined are catching up at the summit.
When you think in terms of likely multiple AAs and possible champs, the list gets really small, really fast -- as in, maybe only 8-12 guys in 2016-2018 combined. Then compare it to open roster spots, and guys whose style fits into Cael's, and guys whose personality and academics fit ...
Two quick things:
- you're basically advocating that PSU land 4 top prospects a year. With only 10 starters on a team, there just is not money and space available for that many elite prospects
- while I root for PA wrestlers in college, and would like to see elite PA wrestlers at The Pennsylvania State University, strictly speaking I don't care where a PSU wrestler went to high school. DT was from out-of-state, and Ruth was from in-state. They were two of the best PSU wrestlers in recent times, as well as all time, and when they took the mat for PSU I don't recall ever thinking about where they were from.
For a more detailed analysis, it really comes down to PSU's roster situation.
This recruiting class, the top PA wrestlers are:
1. Spencer Lee
2. Mike Labriola
3. Cameron Coy
4. Jarod Verkleeren
Next year's recruiting class, the top PA wrestlers are:
1. Gavin Teasdale
2. Michael Beard
3. Sammy Sasso
4. Trent Hidlay
The following recruiting class, the top PA wresters are (it gets kind of tough to make these predictions):
1. Julian Chlebove
2. Ryan Anderson
???
Let's look at these recruits.
2017:
1. Spencer Lee -- PSU actively recruited him, and really thought they had a good shot at him. He opted for another college -- it happens
2. Labriola - Joseph will have 3 years of eligibility at 165, and Hall will have 3 years of eligibility, when Labriola enters college. There isn't a need at his weight class
3. Coy - he's likely a 157 lber in college. Nolf will have 2 years of eligibility when Coy enters college, so he's a year too early, plus Berge and Joe Lee are already lined up for 149 and 157
4. Verkleeren - would you take him, or would you take Berge? They both are slotted for 149. Berge looks to be more of a bonus scoring type than does Verkleeren.
2018
1. Teasdale - PSU did want him, and may still want him. He opted for Iowa while he was a sophomore in HS. It happens
2. Beard - I believe he's going 197 in college. When he enters college, PSU will have Nickal with 1 year, and Cassar with 2 or 3 years. I would have loved to have seen him at PSU, but there really isn't a spot for him at this time
3. Sasso - 49/57/65. PSU will have Nolf with 1 year, Joseph with 2 years, Berge with 4 years, and Joe Lee with 4 years. And Manville might fight in at the higher part of that range, and have 3 or 4 years of eligibility. Where's the room/need?
Hidlay - He's 57/65/74. When he enters college, PSU will have Nolf with 1 year, Joseph with 2 years, Hall with 2 years, Berge with 4 years, Joe Lee with 4 years, Manville with 3 or 4 years. Again, where's the room/need?
2019
1. Chlebove - his dad was college roommate of Sparky, so he's already verballed to ASU. Some things you just can't fight
2. Anderson - he and Busiello may end up at the same weight. I hate trying to project where a high school sophomore will wrestle in college
Over a multi-year period, I suspect PSU recruiting will be a nice combo of PA and national elite prospects. The numbers per year are unlikely to be what you're advocating (not the total class, but the # of elite prospects). And as always, you need to consider the PSU roster needs.
Sorry if this has been discussed in previous recruiting oriented threads, but what's the take on Julian Chlebove, the sophomore from Northampton, who blew through the PIAA field at 120? PSU interested? others?
**oops, I see Tom McA addressed this just above.
**oops, I see Tom McA addressed this just above.
No wrestler did more to change the perception of PSU wrestling and create excitement among young wrestlers in PA than David Taylor. Taylor being from out of state didn't matter. Kids saw an exciting, entertaining wrestler in blue and white. That's what matters.
Recruiting certain areas and schools tends to become reciprocal for some teams and coaches. Here in District 11 an example would be when Oliver went to Oklahoma State and then his local rival Kindig went to OSU.
2 weeks ago at the District 11 championship , Nebraska coach, Mark Manning was in the gym to watch his prize recruit Mike Labreola destroy the field. He was also seen having some conversation with other kids from the area including Sammy Sasso. If a coach gets one kid from an area there can be a trickle down effect.
2 weeks ago at the District 11 championship , Nebraska coach, Mark Manning was in the gym to watch his prize recruit Mike Labreola destroy the field. He was also seen having some conversation with other kids from the area including Sammy Sasso. If a coach gets one kid from an area there can be a trickle down effect.
N
No I am realistic in the number of scholarships and spots on the team. That is why I said 1or 2 of each Pa and National per year. That would reflect some years of 2 recruits some years of 3 and a random chance of 4. Not every year of 4, that just would not add up to scholarship and available spots. Question: If Cael was recruiting 2 similar wrestlers and one was in-state and one was out of state, does he benefit offering the in-state kid the spot because of tuition? I don't know the scholarship guidelines.
I'll define "younger" as FR or SO ...
Guys who maybe could start at PSU (caveat: it's very early for them):
Sam Hillegas - 113 AAA champ, North Hills FR
Beau Bartlett - 120 national preps champ, Wyoming Seminary FR
Edmond Ruth - 152 AA champ, Susquehanna Twp SO
Carter Starocci - 152 AAA 2nd, Erie Prep SO
Gerrit Nijenjuis - 152 AAA 3rd, Canon McMillan FR
Guys who look like good depth at PSU or starters elsewhere:
Ryan Anderson - 126 AAA 3rd, Beca SO
Jared McGill - 170 AA 4th, Chestnut Ridge SO
Gaige Garcia - 170 AA 5th, Southern Columbia FR (might go to the big list next year)
Cole Urbas - 170 AAA 3rd, State College SO
Kawaun Deboe - 285 AAA 7th, Erie Prep SO
Maybe also the 106 guys ... I have a real hard time judging that weight because it's all FR/SO, very few JR/SR to use as a benchmark.
One junior who really impressed me was AA 132 runner-up Tyler Griffiths, who lost to Brian Courtney. Just kept shooting -- and good shots, got in deep on Courtney's legs 8x in 3+ minutes. I don't see him beating Nick Lee for 141, but we could do a LOT worse for spot starter and depth. But if I was impressed, so was every D1 coach in the country.
A few other juniors looked pretty good -- but I think PA 2018 will be at most Hoffman + depth. I like Cole Matthews a lot, but he's starting somewhere in D1, and it won't be ahead of Nick Lee. Etc.
I'd put Hoffman ahead of Hidlay in 2018. Also expecting Hidlay to join his brother at NC State, so his fit/roster spot at PSU doesn't really matter.
Also, to fill in a couple gaps in 2019: Edmond Ruth, Ryan Vulakh. I believe Vulakh ran afoul of the PIAA transfer rules this year -- if not, he would've made noise at 138 or 145.
Ruth would be a great replacement for Hall in 20/21. I believe their years line up about right if Hall goes straight thru and Ruth RS.
20 of 35 team wrestlers from Pennsylvania.
http://www.statecollege.com/penn-state-page/sports/wrestling/roster.php
http://www.statecollege.com/penn-state-page/sports/wrestling/roster.php
Cael is doing exactly what he set out to do: 4 out of every 7 wrestlers on this team are from the Mecca of wrestling in this nation: Pennsylvania. Now, compliment that, with the best of the best from across the nation. Then, inside the best wrestling room in the nation, with the best staff in the nation, iron sharpens iron and the result is not only proven with the starting lineup, but with the depth in case of injury.
***Might want to keep BEA freshman Gage McClenahan on the radar as well....multi sport athlete, multiple PJW champ...7th at 145, lost to runner up Port at District and Regionals by a hair.
What's your take on Hoffman fitting in the future lineup? 197lber in college? Is it a good fit? With younger Nevills. Maybe Bo. Cassar. Hoffman looks really good.
No fear approach, been in the spotlight....I think he has that "I can beat anyone" let loose attitude... I like guys that are successful at multiple sports, I can only imagine the ceiling if he was 365 days wrestling.
Gaige Garcia is the kid to watch - he took 5th as freshman at 170. Lost 3-2 in Semis to #6 guy nationally who went 6-2-1-1 at states, Jacob Oliver. This was all after coming back from a broken ankle playing as star tailback in the state championship game in December. Kid is an absolute stud.
His brother just won PJW states as well....I agree, at his age that size...he is certainly going to be impressive
Yes, but you didn't consider the effect of kids getting 5 years to use 4 years eligibility and red-shirtting. Many of PSU's scholarship wrestlers redshirt, which means it isn't even close to 3 per year (9.9 scholies total over roughly 5 years or closer to 2 scholies per year dependent upon who has used up eligibility and is rolling off.).
The reality is that with only 9.9 grants available total at any given time, a coach (not just PSU) needs to be almost perfect in selecting how to use scholie $ and needs to use it on guys who will AA multiple years or they won't stay on top.
Weight is the question. I think he projects well at 197. (Beard will be an issue, but that's not unique to Hoffman.) If he decides to move up, I don't see him at the same level as Snacks or Steveson. When he bumped up to 220 for the preseason events, his match with Schultz was ugly.
Everything else about him fits with PSU.
We don't always talk about the guys in the room because they aren't in the spotlight as much, but they are as pivotal to the success of the team as the starters. And that group is loaded with PA guys.
Agree with other sentiments that we are going to get the best lineup regardless of geography
Really like Garcia as well. And, yes, impressive season to take 5th as a freshman coming off that injury.
The reason I did not put him in the top list was his performance at states. Nothing wrong with losing to Oliver and McGill (and I predicted it). But he shut down his offense in both matches. Need to see him open up more next year when he'll presumably be healthy.
Next year will be a good test for him. Group, McGill, and the top 4 finishers from 182 all return.
My opinion is his lack of offense was a combination of his opponents defense, the magnitude of the moments and pain of year long high level athletics.
The kid needs a few weeks of fishing and R&R.
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