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Pat Nardouche

Who was the last recruit PSU and Pitt went head to head against one another? I cant remember.

Narduzzi's an idiot, but he's smart enough not to go head to head with JF over any one recruit. I think that is why he is abandoning the state. Every time he loses a recruit to JF, he just becomes smaller and smaller and smaller.
 
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Who was the last recruit PSU and Pitt went head to head for against one another? I cant remember.
Honestly? Damar Hamlin is probably the last true head-to-head battle that they beat us on. You could throw a couple other guys from that 2016 class into the mix, too - Aaron Mathews flipped to Pitt because they let him play WR, and we had to do some late legwork to keep Shaka Toney and Miles Sanders.

On the other hand, there have been a whole bunch of guys that we’ve landed in 2017, 2018, and 2019 that Pitt pushed hard for. Most of them didn’t seriously consider Pitt.
 
Sanders was never as interested in Pitt as the Lair guys believe. To this day they think the only reason he is here is because his mother pushed him here. The real story is that if we were going to lose him to anybody, it would have been Michigan State.
It says a lot that I had to reach to name more than two guys in the past four cycles that Pitt truly threatened Penn State for, right?

I think Shareef Miller is probably a better example than Sanders, but he was even longer ago.
 
Agreed, but I would be more willing to go 1:1 with Temple because it is almost like playing two home games, because we have so many alumni in the Philly area.

The last game at Heinz Field was at least 40% PSU fans. Pitt fans started streaming for the exits as PSU had the game in hand... then a wrong route lead to an INT, and one of the luckiest wins ever.
 
Same here. Like I said earlier, I enjoy talking football with other fan bases as much as my own. You become more knowledgeable about the rest of the country.

I will say when I first started conversing online that I was surprised about how evil and hate-filled the rivalry had become in general. Maybe it was just my neighborhood, but growing up we had both Pitt and Penn State people on the street and enjoyed the games. It was more of a bragging rights thing. We weren’t bad to each other. There was no hatred; It was fun getting together and watching the games. It was the same way when we lived in the Ohio Valley and had Pitt and WVU fans on the same street.

It’s too bad some have created that reputation for us. Like I said earlier, just remember it’s the 10% of the base that’s the worst and, usually, the loudest. Then people think that they’re the rule, not the exception.

I think you are a great poster, and always welcome here. But it's not what most consider a rivalry. "competition for the same objective or for superiority in the same field." Sure both teams are competing to win the game, but then EVERY game is a rivalry game. Big picture, both teams are not competing for the same objective.
 
Like I said, my experience is different than your’s or others’. The last time I’ve talked about it with fellow Pitt fans, in real life, was the report of the 1976 revelation. Then again, it was national news so everyone probably was.
Did your fellow Pitt fans also discuss it when the 1976 tall tale was debunked? Probably not. Anyway, you seem like a good guy, but the average "internet Pitt fan" is not.
 
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Thank you for sharing this with me. I’ll make sure to cancel our Notre Dame trip.

In all seriousness, I love the Pitt/PSU series, but it’s not the be-all-end-all. If PSU was in the ACC, then yes. I’m excited to see what we can do in-conference. While you’re here, can you answer the question I asked in the Temple series thread? Does PSU usually do home/homes for “secondary” OOC game, besides a two-for-one? I found the Temple news interesting since I couldn’t find a precedent for it on Penn State’s past schedules.

What is so difficult to get about the PItt/PSU series? We're just not that into you. PSU is going to play one P5 team a year in OOC. Temple doesn't fit that. Temple is a not a replacement for Pitt here. VT, Auburn, and WVU so far are the replacements for Pitt.

EDIT: Take it as a compliment. PSU isn't replacing Pitt with Temple. They are replacing the Pitt series with other major P5 teams.
 
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Did your fellow Pitt fans also discuss it when the 1976 tall tale was debunked? Probably not. Anyway, you seem like a good guy, but the average "internet Pitt fan" is not.

When you were talking about something in 1976 that was debunked, I seriously thought you were talking about Pitt's national championship in football. The 70s abuse allegations are so absurd, and have been so thoroughly debunked, that I forget they even exist.
 
I made two posts there last fall. Neither post was even remotely contentious. The one that got me banned for life was in response to a post where the writer was bragging about how they "contained" a great running back. I replied,"now you are saying SB is a great back?" That was it!
How dare you use their own words against them! That’s like making them bleed their own blood...
 
All good points Mike. I’ve come to find out that you’re good when it comes to Devil’s Advocate ;) I feel good about the defense. New DC (I believe Conklin was the problem), whole DL is coming back, Wirginis is back at ILB plus a preseason award candidate at OLB (a former walk-on no less), and a secondary that got better as the season went on.

- Wake won’t be a walk-over, but I feel confident that we should beat them. Their defense was 105th in the country, even worse than our’s. Maybe that’s a good thing they’re returning everyone :) Run defense was abysmal and that’s the one thing we’re good at, even at QB. Add to the fact that they would’ve had three of their last four games on the road and Clemson before that, and there may be some fatigue setting in as we come to town.
- North Carolina isn’t looking much better than last year and they’re in trouble with the NCAA again, possible suspensions coming. We play them early in the season so that may affect our matchup. This is the year we beat them.
- We beat Syracuse last year with better QB play. We now have that in Pickett. Add to the fact that we play them at home (a place we haven’t lose to Cuse since 2001) and we should beat them. Dungy is good, though. Absolutely torched us in 2016 with Ismael at WR.
- Duke was injured last year, but we were down as well and we still pulled out a win. We’re both still on the same level but we get them at home. I give the edge to us.

I can appreciate your optimism but let me caution you on the "Preseason award candidate at OLB" We also have one at TE he's probably played less than a 1 quarter total. So don't get too caught up in the preseason awards list.
Also isn't your head coach pretty much your DC?
Another area is ST. we have some concerns about PK but I see on your board one of your posters thinks you can just pull a kid out off the campus and punt 42 yards. Trust me and all of us here (cause we saw it first hand and we have more people to pull from) that very, rarely happens if ever.
I know many of you are counting on the Transfer OL to come in and improve your OL. I'd hedge on that until you see him play he didn't exactly set the MAC world on fire.
How are your WR's?
Is Ford out of the doghouse enough to get playing time?
How about your TE's? we are concerned about ours but you may be in even worse shape.
I thought your QB looked good against Miami but then I thought Miami was completely over rated last year.
Lastly how do you think your guys will do under the bright lights of a prime time game?
I'm pretty confident in ours. Our guys have had some huge prime time games and yea some where even away from the friendly confines of State College.
Lets just hope this damn weather breaks and neither team is playing in the deluge we've seen in the Mid-Atlantic for the past 2 weeks.
 
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I think you need to take me more seriously. I predicted Pitt’s record last year. I think you might be looking at things with blue and gold glasses. I’m just trying to help. I actually enjoy fans like you because you’re the best to follow when reality hits

Not only does Pitt’s oline lack depth, it lacks talent and cohesion. Pitt has relied on that line for years to run the ball. You’re one of the few pitt fans who are not concerned. You’re relying on one starter in Bookser. A MAC player whose unit led the entire cfb in sacks allowed, a walk-on, and 2 guys who have played sparingly and were former DTs.

Hmmm all of that sounds very familiar and not in a good way. I give you the Penn State 2014-15 OL. Yikes.
 
I complemented Bookster as a player. But it really takes a couple very good OLinemen and the rest being average to get the job done, especially with a young QB and less than average WR talent. Unfortunately Bookster can only play 1 OL position at a time.

Yes, Peterman had some success. But the development of QB's, being of utmost importance to actually winning games, is the responsibility of the head coach. Just can't let Duchie off the hook. The head coach is the lead recruiter for all recruits and saying a head coach is only responsible for the defense is not realistic, and if true a recipe for disaster. We like to quote Franklin's introduction speech where he said that it is easier to win with better players. In today's game talent at QB and the development of QB's should be the top priority for every head coach. At least it is for every successful head coach.

I realize Pickett played in multiple games. I said he only started 1 game, which is what I believe to be true.

Exactly. We have a lot of experience with OL and only having 1 good one. It didn't end well.
 
Narduzzi has served as the DC past 2015 when it started to go downhill with Conklin. He wanted to have a more hands-off approach and may do that this year with a new DC.

I wasn’t saying we have an advantage at OLB. Meant it more as a compliment to Idowu who was a walk-on to the Butkus Watchlist.

WR will be alright. Really wish Henderson stayed. The decision to leave early hurt him and us, though we’ll be fine because we have a guy who can replace his speed in the slot. Ffrench, Lopes, Matthews, and Tipton will be a good core. I’d feel better if the transfer from IU could play immediately, though. TE is a concern, but I don’t think it’ll be much worse than last year . Losing Reeves hurt, but there were some behind-the-scenes circumstances that didn’t give him much choice.

As for primetime, who knows. We’ve seen how they can play against top competition. I kinda hope the game isn’t Gameday or anything like that because I like our chances when there’s no expectations and they can just go out and play. And you’re telling about this weather. I live in Kansas City and I haven’t cut in a month because it’s just the same 100 degrees stuff everyday with no end in sight. It felt good when I came back into Pittsburgh for a week. It was 72 in the morning and, when I looked up the weather here, it was already 90 :confused:
Wanted to respond to your WR comments with a PSU perspective. And also to compliment you as a poster. Glad to have to here.

I'm putting in the Rivals ratings and recruiting class for your receivers and the PSU players they'll be up against. I know, ratings aren't everything and Duzz supposedly coaches them up (sigh...) but it does give us a working basis for comparison. Across the board, the Pitt receivers will be up against more experienced, more talented, more athletic players in the secondary. You have a serviceable bunch, but I hope you can see why PSU fans feel good about matching up against this offense in the passing game. Particularly when some awfully good DEs are going to be crashing in past some very "meh" OTs in pursuit of your inexperienced QB. So I don't see Duzz stretching the field very much. Should be a much-needed opportunity for our still-meshing group of LBs to feast on the running game and gain confidence. Anyway:

Ffrench (5.6 / 2016), Lopes (5.3 / 2015), Matthews (5.6 / 2015), and Tipton (5.6 / 2015)

vs.

5th-year seniors Oruwariye (5.6 / 2014) and Nick Scott (5.7 / 2014), previous starter John Reid (5.9 / 2015), Garrett Taylor (5.9 / 2015). With 5-star Wade plus 4-stars Castro-Fields and Johnson backing them up.

As for ESPN, I just don't see it for a Top-10ish team (PSU) vs. a Top-40ish team (Pitt) at a pro stadium. Maybe in 2019 when it's the last game ever between these programs, in a soaring Happy Valley, and you have a Top 5 team (PSU) putting the final nails in the coffin of this corpse of a series. :)
 
When was it debunked? I honestly don’t know because I just don’t follow it. And yes, I’ve learned that over the years. The internet is a bit different than real life, unfortunately.
Even if you are willing to overlook some major issues with the logistics contained in the stories, an attorney for multiple Sandusky victim is quoted as saying the claims don't have merit.

"Michael Boni, a lawyer who represented some of the Sandusky claimants, voiced caution about the new Paterno allegations.

"The headlines of these stories is Paterno knew of Sandusky's molestation in the '70s, '76 or '77. I'm unaware of direct, irrefutable evidence that that's the case," Boni said. "Believe me, I'm the last person to defend the guy, but I am the first person to believe in our justice system. And I think you need more than anecdotal evidence or speculative evidence.""
http://www.fox7austin.com/sports/paternos-son-supposed-1976-allegation-vs-father-is-bunk
 
I think if it was played every year, it could be along the lines of the Georgia/Ga Tech series or UF/FSU.
Unless one or both of the programs has a major trajectory change, it is unlikely to be FSU/UF. Maybe it could rise to being UGA/GaTech (i.e. very one sided that UGA only sort of cares about).
 
Again, I just go off of what I read on the news or newspaper. I don’t follow it that much; I don’t follow it at all today. Then again, most people probably do that.

If things are being distorted than it’s too bad because I don’t think it’ll change anytime soon. They hear “Penn State” and will immediately agree with what they read because of what happened. Especially dangerous in the “fake news” era. I don’t have sympathy for the school or program but I do have sympathy for the fans and alums who had nothing to do with it that will forever be linked to that. Trust me, I learned that first hand when we lived in Steubenville when the rape case went down. People still to this day bring it up when I mention the town I loved and lived in for many years. It’s sad, but it’s reality.

The newspapers only ever talked about one sided allegations that never made any sense. The stories the 70s accusers told could not have happened. They were so far fetched that they might as well have said that when he tracked down JVP on a giant unfamiliar campus, and gained audience with him... he was riding a unicorn. The other accuser claimed to be on a conference call with Joe and the AD before that technology existed, and claims Joe threatened to call the police... shouldn't that have been what he wanted? Then neither told anyone for 40 years, but both remained avid PSU/Paterno fans. Neither has had their stories backed up by anyone attended camp with them, and in fact other attendees from those camps have shot holes in their stories. One of the 70s accusers alleged abuse in a group shower with coaches (that no one can corroborate), but they didn't take group showers or shower with coaches. Joe allegedly refused to report his lowly linebackers coach in the 70s, yet promptly and properly reported in 2001? I could go on and on and on. I think the better question is, what about the 70s allegations did you find credible?

You don't have sympathy for the school or program? The program had nothing to do with it, the issue wasn't football related, and the NCAA agreed when they walked back their hastily implemented sanctions. As for the school, if you consider a handful of individual administrators to be equivalent to the school.... the school received ONE vague horseplay report of a non-employee and a non-student. They followed state law, university policy, and current NCAA guidelines. They sent the report to the organization responsible for both Jerry and the teen. They were trained to handle the report, and had an obligation to act. They did not act. Regardless, the teen from the shower is on the record saying nothing happened that night. What would you have had the school do differently? (Considering that almost any different course of action would violate state law, university policy, and current NCAA guidelines?)
 
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When was it debunked? I honestly don’t know because I just don’t follow it. And yes, I’ve learned that over the years. The internet is a bit different than real life, unfortunately.

Trust me when I say this, if there had been even a kernel of truth to it You would have heard the victory dance and back slapping all the way in KC from the Old Guard BOTs at PSU.
It was a big nothing burger rumor He was the source for a Ganim article that went nowhere.
The feeling around here was a "he doth protest too much" since he (Bernie) had a habit of plying young boys with alcohol. He has since died.
 
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Appreciate the kind words. To be honest, I don’t think it serves much purpose comparing players by ratings. I think PSU beats Pitt in that category across the board. Obviously Penn State will be favored coming in, as they should be.

Our defense will be much improved from last year. I know Penn State’s line was also highly rated in high school, but it seems that they lost a few people from last year. Add to it that Barkley is gone (who we did a good job containing) and I feel like we can stop the run again with a more experienced line. We have to do that if we want to win. Passing will be something else. Hoping an improved secondary can keep it respectable. Defense will have to live up to the hype if we want to win, because the offense may struggle a bit.

As for the offensive side of the ball, the passing game struggled last year against Miami in Pickett’s first start. Running kept us in it. Hopefully we can get it goung which will allow the air to open up a bit.

I only think the game has a chance at gameday since 1) it’s already primetime on ABC and 2) there’s not too many other premier games that day. We’ll see.

Hmm he had like 7 TD's in 2 games avg. averaged 5 ypc and had 6 rec. for 90 yards. But if you say you did a good job "containing" him ok.
 
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So anyway.....anyone buying that a 49 year old equipment manager just up and "retired" a few weeks before the start of camp? This seems to be what they want to believe on the Lair?
 
Appreciate the kind words. To be honest, I don’t think it serves much purpose comparing players by ratings. I think PSU beats Pitt in that category across the board. Obviously Penn State will be favored coming in, as they should be.

Our defense will be much improved from last year. I know Penn State’s line was also highly rated in high school, but it seems that they lost a few people from last year. Add to it that Barkley is gone (who we did a good job containing) and I feel like we can stop the run again with a more experienced line. We have to do that if we want to win. Passing will be something else. Hoping an improved secondary can keep it respectable. Defense will have to live up to the hype if we want to win, because the offense may struggle a bit.

As for the offensive side of the ball, the passing game struggled last year against Miami in Pickett’s first start. Running kept us in it. Hopefully we can get it goung which will allow the air to open up a bit.

I only think the game has a chance at gameday since 1) it’s already primetime on ABC and 2) there’s not too many other premier games that day. We’ll see.
Ratings aren't perfect, but in lieu of a detailed analysis of the playing experience and development of each player, it's about the best we can do as lay people. We agree that PSU's players were much more highly rated across the board, and I think it's only rational to extend that to say that PSU is a more talented, more athletic team. And for the first time in awhile, deep and experienced despite losing some very special skill players.

PSU's offensive line is the most promising in a decade. Only lost one starter RG Brendon Mahon, while the rest will be 3rd and 4th year players who started or played significantly as 2nd and 3rd year players. Knowing how important age, experience, and strength are on the o-line, it's a significant upgrade as a unit. With a dual-threat QB and the #1 rb in the 2016 cycle finally getting to start with the departure of Barkley, I think containing the run will be a tall order even if your defense has improved. Just don't think you have the players or scheme to stop both aspects of PSU's offense. Sell out to stop the run, and you'll get torched through the air. I see 200 yards rushing and 300 passing for PSU. If PSU gets way up early, that could get flipped around as Pitt gets gassed and gives up big gains on the ground to backup players late in the game.

Good point on Game Day. Might happen just for lack of anything better that day, but I think some people people overestimate the cachet of this game. Nationally, the expectation is for PSU to thump little brother. With only 70k or whatever the stadium holds, it won't be a particularly large or loud crowd.
 
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To be honest, I don’t think it serves much purpose comparing players by ratings.

I kind of agree with this. Our Heisman candidate QB was a 5.6, 3 star rated ATHLETE (not QB). Our all time leading receiver was a 5.7, 3 star who passed a former walkon for the record. Our top linebacker last year was a 5.5, 3 star. Haley - 5.6, Allen - 5.6, etc.

I do think you can use overall class ratings or team ratings as a predictor. But once you start to get down to one on one, it's virtually worthless.
 
By containing, I meant in the running game. I think it’s unfair to average the two games together because in 2016 he had four TDs. We did a much better job in 2017. He had under 100 yards and only one TD. I’d say he did more damage to us in the passing game. That’s where he really hurt because just when we stopped him on the ground, he tore us apart out of the backfield.
Barkley had less yards rushing against Georgia St, Indiana, Rutgres, OSU, Northwestern, Michigan state and Maryland than he did against Pitt.
In our offense, and as good as Barkley was, it seems if you wanted to sell out to stop him you could.
I wouldn't use that as a measuring stick.
 
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By containing, I meant in the running game. I think it’s unfair to average the two games together because in 2016 he had four TDs. We did a much better job in 2017. He had under 100 yards and only one TD. I’d say he did more damage to us in the passing game. That’s where he really hurt because just when we stopped him on the ground, he tore us apart out of the backfield.

Ok but he still had 14 carries for 88 yards.
JMO but its probably more accurate to say Trace just had more weapons available.
For what its worth both Indy and Rutgers probably did a better job "containing" him but then if you shadow him with your entire LB'r crew that might happen.
 
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I don't get Pitt's excitement for the QB. There are countless stories of backup QB's lighting things up when the opposing D isn't prepared for them. He reminds me of a few recent Indiana QB's. If he runs much, he'll break.
 
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Can we get back to insulting Narduzzi?
Once we get a few pages in it gets boring, and becomes more fun to talk about why PSU is a better team. For me, anyway. Can someone go over to the Lair and grab a couple quotes for the "darnedest things" thread? Then when Duzz does the next douchey thing we can have another go at him in a separate thread.

It's pretty awesome that a thread got hijacked to talk about football :eek:
 
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I kind of agree with this. Our Heisman candidate QB was a 5.6, 3 star rated ATHLETE (not QB). Our all time leading receiver was a 5.7, 3 star who passed a former walkon for the record. Our top linebacker last year was a 5.5, 3 star. Haley - 5.6, Allen - 5.6, etc.

I do think you can use overall class ratings or team ratings as a predictor. But once you start to get down to one on one, it's virtually worthless.
I agree that the exceptions to ratings make 1:1 comparison meaningless. But to defend myself (not that I think you're attacking me) if you compare Pitt's WR corps to PSU's secondary corps, it's an average of 5.5 to 5.8. That's meaningful, especially when ours on average have an additional year of experience over theirs. We can all agree, though, that PSU is putting better athletes and better football players on the field compared to Pitt. It's not close. I'll stop crying about it now
 
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"Doesn't Ox have a young child? Perhaps he would like to spend more time at home." Who needs the comedy channel?
 
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Ok but he still had 14 carries for 88 yards.
JMO but its probably more accurate to say Trace just had more weapons available.
For what its worth both Indy and Rutgers probably did a better job "containing" him but then if you shadow him with your entire LB'r crew that might happen.

Not sure how 6+ YPC is containing him.

Pitt fans like to think that they contained him in the run game and forced him to catch passes. But they don't consider that the run game wasn't as important because he was lighting them up with the pass.
 
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Honestly? Damar Hamlin is probably the last true head-to-head battle that they beat us on. You could throw a couple other guys from that 2016 class into the mix, too - Aaron Mathews flipped to Pitt because they let him play WR, and we had to do some late legwork to keep Shaka Toney and Miles Sanders.

On the other hand, there have been a whole bunch of guys that we’ve landed in 2017, 2018, and 2019 that Pitt pushed hard for. Most of them didn’t seriously consider Pitt.


Our starting DT (Givens) and possible starting TE (Bowers) were flipped from pitt towards the end of that cycle (2015). That was before CJF really got it going in building relationships with the top talent in his recruiting area. Today, that is much more unlikely to happen. Both likely would not even get offers now that CJF has upped his game, as evidenced by the limited PA offers for 2019...
 
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Our starting DT (Givens) and possible starting TE (Bowers) were flipped from pitt towards the end of that cycle (2015). That was before CJF really got it going in building relationships with the top talent in his recruiting area. Today, that is much more unlikely to happen. Both likely would not even get offers now that CJF has upped his game, as evidenced by the limited PA offers for 2019...

Agreed, but I’m happy givens is on psu. He’s a nice player. Bowers, TBD.
 
My favorite Pat story is when he found out that Cam Brown was favoring PSU and choose not to take a summer camp visit to Pitt . He then called him and his mother to tell them that PSU wasn't safe for any parent to let their child go to school and that Franklin was almost guaranteed to be out at the end of the year. Coach Franklin and the staff at PSU as you can assume was livid about it. What really pissed them off even more is when later that summer they found out it was a continued pitch by Pat and some other members of his staff with other mutual targets.
 
My favorite Pat story is when he found out that Cam Brown was favoring PSU and choose not to take a summer camp visit to Pitt . He then called him and his mother to tell them that PSU wasn't safe for any parent to let their child go to school and that Franklin was almost guaranteed to be out at the end of the year. Coach Franklin and the staff at PSU as you can assume was livid about it. What really pissed them off even more is when later that summer they found out it was a continued pitch by Pat and some other members of his staff with other mutual targets.


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