Passive Tactics

MonkChowder

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Mar 10, 2014
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I wish it wasn't the case, but several of our boys seemed to fall into the age old tactics game of sitting on a lead (or tie) and it cost us several times. The lack of offensive attacking was widespread throughout the entire tournament and we sadly fell into it as well. Most of our losses were the result of not attacking on our feet (Drew x2, Bartlett x2, Berge vs. Lewan, Edsell, Brooks vs Amine). I understand the thinking of preserving a lead, or tie, but I think it ends up biting you in the end too often. Our guys are good enough to keep attacking and create more comfortable leads. Let it rip. Ultimately it cost us the title. Hopefully we open it up a little in Detroit.
 

donboy6499

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Jul 4, 2005
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I wish it wasn't the case, but several of our boys seemed to fall into the age old tactics game of sitting on a lead (or tie) and it cost us several times. The lack of offensive attacking was widespread throughout the entire tournament and we sadly fell into it as well. Most of our losses were the result of not attacking on our feet (Drew x2, Bartlett x2, Berge vs. Lewan, Edsell, Brooks vs Amine). I understand the thinking of preserving a lead, or tie, but I think it ends up biting you in the end too often. Our guys are good enough to keep attacking and create more comfortable leads. Let it rip. Ultimately it cost us the title. Hopefully we open it up a little in Detroit.
I think there’s truth to this post with one exception, I don’t think Brooks was passive at all.

I haven’t gone back and watched that match but if I were to tally the first 7 minutes I would imagine that 6 of them featured him moving forward. He stalked his opponent for essentially the entire match and the stalling was just so College Stalling it hurts. Did that change his approaches in the last 30? I don’t know.

What AB got a stalling for, Amine did for 6 minutes. But it is what it is. Be nice if a guy can be aggressive forever, actually get the reward (a lead), then not have to panic wrestle the last 30 seconds to not give it up on a stall point.
 
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Callthestall

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I think some of the issue with the PSU conservative style is that they are very comfortable in their defense. However they don't look to score on the counters. I would say with the exception of Brooks they just look for stalemate call. Bravo-Young against Desanto is prime example. Nolf ,Nickal, Brown,Nico and Quinton Wright all looked to scramble and score off counters.
 

a_mshaffer

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I think some of the issue with the PSU conservative style is that they are very comfortable in their defense. However they don't look to score on the counters. I would say with the exception of Brooks they just look for stalemate call. Bravo-Young against Desanto is prime example. Nolf ,Nickal, Brown,Nico and Quinton Wright all looked to scramble and score off counters.
I think all the guys have pretty good go behinds but if they get blocked then they don't have another attack. They all try and cut the corner off of an attack and look for reattack.
 

NoVa Lion

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I think some of the issue with the PSU conservative style is that they are very comfortable in their defense. However they don't look to score on the counters. I would say with the exception of Brooks they just look for stalemate call. Bravo-Young against Desanto is prime example. Nolf ,Nickal, Brown,Nico and Quinton Wright all looked to scramble and score off counters.
You don't think RBY looks to score off counters? He leads the team in TDs and most of them are off of counters. He certainly wrestles ADS differently but then ADS is a unique wrestler.
 

TangSoo

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Brooks?!!! AB either gassed at a bad time from the insane, unprecedented pace he set, or he got his bell rung from a clash of heads. AB is headed for the pantheon in Penn State wrestling and just got nicked at the very end by a 25 year old, Olympic medalist (who got his ass beat for about 95% of the match).
 

PSU Mike

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Brooks?!!! AB either gassed at a bad time from the insane, unprecedented pace he set, or he got his bell rung from a clash of heads. AB is headed for the pantheon in Penn State wrestling and just got nicked at the very end by a 25 year old, Olympic medalist (who got his ass beat for about 95% of the match).
I think Aaron just had an adrenaline dump immediately after giving 110% to get the needed escape in the end of reg. He went from composed to strained and exaggerated breathing, which I’ve never seen him do. Amine did what he had to do, but I’ll be surprised if it ever happens again in the Blue & White.
 

johnstownsteel

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I think we were blessed to have watched greats like Nolf, Nickal, Ruth, Taylor, Zain and others for so long that sometimes we think these young guys don’t measure up to their non stop pressure and relentlessness. I expect will will be forgetting about this conversation in the coming seasons.
 
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js8793

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I think there’s truth to this post with one exception, I don’t think Brooks was passive at all.

I haven’t gone back and watched that match but if I were to tally the first 7 minutes I would imagine that 6 of them featured him moving forward. He stalked his opponent for essentially the entire match and the stalling was just so College Stalling it hurts. Did that change his approaches in the last 30? I don’t know.

What AB got a stalling for, Amine did for 6 minutes. But it is what it is. Be nice if a guy can be aggressive forever, actually get the reward (a lead), then not have to panic wrestle the last 30 seconds to not give it up on a stall point.
this is such a problem. if you're winning in the final minute, you're going to get called for stalling regardless of who has done all the attacking in the previous 6. they need to call the first 6 like they call the last 1.
 

STAND with PRIDE

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this is such a problem. if you're winning in the final minute, you're going to get called for stalling regardless of who has done all the attacking in the previous 6. they need to call the first 6 like they call the last 1.
And more double stallings,I cant remember the last double stall call.
 

RoarLions1

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At a tournament where we had 6 byes in the first round, which is a missed bonus point opportunity, the guys had 11 bonus point wins, though 3 were forfeits. They wrestled 35 bouts, for a 31% rate.

At 19 bonus points at Big Ten's, I'm excited to see what the guys can do at NCAA's, with an extra round and no byes. At NCAA's our guys should get between 45 and 55 total bouts. Bonus points could be big. Don't expect any forfeits, but I do think there will be lots of bonus.

Point is, the bonus point picture tells a different story. Offensive-mindedness is something several of our guys (all the guys really, but some more than others) continue to work on. I didn't see much passiveness myself after getting a lead.
 

MonkChowder

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At a tournament where we had 6 byes in the first round, which is a missed bonus point opportunity, the guys had 11 bonus point wins, though 3 were forfeits. They wrestled 35 bouts, for a 31% rate.

At 19 bonus points at Big Ten's, I'm excited to see what the guys can do at NCAA's, with an extra round and no byes. At NCAA's our guys should get between 45 and 55 total bouts. Bonus points could be big. Don't expect any forfeits, but I do think there will be lots of bonus.

Point is, the bonus point picture tells a different story. Offensive-mindedness is something several of our guys (all the guys really, but some more than others) continue to work on. I didn't see much passiveness myself after getting a lead.
Agree with you - in the bouts we won. I posted that the passivity hurt our guys in the matches they lost. And I listed the examples. I believe our guys are good enough to push the action in those bouts and win. That's all.
 

Callthestall

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You don't think RBY looks to score off counters? He leads the team in TDs and most of them are off of counters. He certainly wrestles ADS differently but then ADS is a unique wrestler.
Roman does like to counter, I really was referencing how he wrestles Desanto.
I should have been more descriptive.
 

AndEEss

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this is such a problem. if you're winning in the final minute, you're going to get called for stalling regardless of who has done all the attacking in the previous 6. they need to call the first 6 like they call the last 1.
This.

How can Brooks be called for stalling and Amine not have multiple stalling calls against him? That's mind blowing.

Hell, he was intentionally interlocking fingers to slow/avoid the action.
 

Callthestall

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I think all the guys have pretty good go behinds but if they get blocked then they don't have another attack. They all try and cut the corner off of an attack and look for reattack.
Agreed , I think what I don't see is the scramble stuff that made Nolf ,Nickal and Wright so unique. I actually think Brooks and Zain wrestle similar from their feet
 

RoarLions1

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Agree with you - in the bouts we won. I posted that the passivity hurt our guys in the matches they lost. And I listed the examples. I believe our guys are good enough to push the action in those bouts and win. That's all.
I understand. What I don't get is that they (the wrestlers in your examples) are who they are, and I didn't see anything substantially different from what I saw during the regular season. Not really agreeing or disagreeing, I just don't see it quite the way you posted above.
 
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donboy6499

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this is such a problem. if you're winning in the final minute, you're going to get called for stalling regardless of who has done all the attacking in the previous 6. they need to call the first 6 like they call the last 1.
It’s bad and I have to say I always wish matches would get called likelike they do in IC.

In that I mean it seems like the crowd constantly calling for the stall DOES get stall calls but more often than not they’re actually the correct calls. Furthermore, because of that, the official usually calls them on Iowa as well because they’re cognizant of it on the mind. I go back to the second stall call on Warner/Dean. That was the right call and was with a minute left, so it wasn’t just for show. There was a real chance #3 was coming. That’s correct, just like the Berge ones were correct.
Just be consistent.
 

Callthestall

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This was touched on before. Does 3 point takedown (3 or 5 nearfall) change the attitude.???
 

CJFisJoePaII

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I think some of the issue with the PSU conservative style is that they are very comfortable in their defense. However they don't look to score on the counters. I would say with the exception of Brooks they just look for stalemate call. Bravo-Young against Desanto is prime example. Nolf ,Nickal, Brown,Nico and Quinton Wright all looked to scramble and score off counters.

I would add Max Dean - he was exceptional this past weekend with Defensive Counters.
 

ccdiver

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At a tournament where we had 6 byes in the first round, which is a missed bonus point opportunity, the guys had 11 bonus point wins, though 3 were forfeits. They wrestled 35 bouts, for a 31% rate.

At 19 bonus points at Big Ten's, I'm excited to see what the guys can do at NCAA's, with an extra round and no byes. At NCAA's our guys should get between 45 and 55 total bouts. Bonus points could be big. Don't expect any forfeits, but I do think there will be lots of bonus.

Point is, the bonus point picture tells a different story. Offensive-mindedness is something several of our guys (all the guys really, but some more than others) continue to work on. I didn't see much passiveness myself after getting a lead.
You’re on the mark as always, of course, but I was kind of disappointed in our SV performances. Most of them were over quickly, and not in our favor, after quick aggressive opponent moves.
 

RB-Old

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I feel like Brooks was assuming Amine would get sloppy while trying to score in the end and thought he'd be able to capitalize.

I do I agree about the stall warning though, it totally changed his style, Stalling calls should be based on the whole match not on the last 30 seconds when a guy is protecting a lead. Brooks had Amine backing up the whole time, I hope if they meet again he concentrates more on walking him out although I'm not sure he'd get the stall calls the way the Iowa guys do.
 

tullfan68

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Jun 20, 2021
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I wish it wasn't the case, but several of our boys seemed to fall into the age old tactics game of sitting on a lead (or tie) and it cost us several times. The lack of offensive attacking was widespread throughout the entire tournament and we sadly fell into it as well. Most of our losses were the result of not attacking on our feet (Drew x2, Bartlett x2, Berge vs. Lewan, Edsell, Brooks vs Amine). I understand the thinking of preserving a lead, or tie, but I think it ends up biting you in the end too often. Our guys are good enough to keep attacking and create more comfortable leads. Let it rip. Ultimately it cost us the title. Hopefully we open it up a little in Detroit.
yea they certianly didnt do what Cael tell them score points!!
 

District four

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I think there’s truth to this post with one exception, I don’t think Brooks was passive at all.

I haven’t gone back and watched that match but if I were to tally the first 7 minutes I would imagine that 6 of them featured him moving forward. He stalked his opponent for essentially the entire match and the stalling was just so College Stalling it hurts. Did that change his approaches in the last 30? I don’t know.

What AB got a stalling for, Amine did for 6 minutes. But it is what it is. Be nice if a guy can be aggressive forever, actually get the reward (a lead), then not have to panic wrestle the last 30 seconds to not give it up on a stall point.
I agree but I also think AB could have worked those underhooks or amine trying to avoid the underhooks into some take downs. AB literally worked him all over the mat for six minutes. He's working on something and I think we see it in another week
 

District four

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this is such a problem. if you're winning in the final minute, you're going to get called for stalling regardless of who has done all the attacking in the previous 6. they need to call the first 6 like they call the last 1.
Of all the discussions on stalling this one is the truth. Call the shit in the first six minutes and you get a better match
 

District four

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I understand. What I don't get is that they (the wrestlers in your examples) are who they are, and I didn't see anything substantially different from what I saw during the regular season. Not really agreeing or disagreeing, I just don't see it quite the way you posted above.
I think it may be a certain personality of the wrestler. Some of our guys don't look like they have fully bought into the have fun Cael moniker and are wrestling not to lose I agree. I don't think rby or Brooks or Lee or dean or cstar are in that category as they don't seem to be out of control of the match the rest of our guys however seem to be wrestling to not make a mistake. Buy into Cael's let's have some fun fest and let the fur fly for f...ks sake lol
 

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