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OT: The Truth About Lies

Victor E. Bell

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2001
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Ridge and Valley Province
Caught this re-run from CNBC on Sirius radio tonight on the way home from Harrisburg. Tim Donaghy is featured. There's a clip of some of what he had to say here:

http://www.thesportsbank.net/nba/tim-donaghy-resurfaces-in-cnbc-doc-truth-about-lies/

To summarize all that he said, basically when he entered the NBA as a rookie ref he tried to call things according to the book. He quickly came to understand that other officials were passing him on the ladder to plum games and playoff assignments. Older officials started to let Donaghy in on the way things ran. You don't call traveling or fouls on the stars, the big market teams, or the popular players in the sporting goods stores. The league never came out and said "Call the games this way" but league officials would send emails and memos indicating that certain things needed to be adhered to. So Donaghy has it figured out now, he knows tendencies of the other refs, which ref is whose "boy." Big advantage. Not going to get into the rest of it, most know the story.

This is the first time I recall hearing a pro official admit publicly that it's a railroad job. How naive not to think it happens in the major NCAA conferences. Of course most of us have known this for 20 years but now an ex-official has said as much. If it's on demand check it out. It'll probably be on again sometime. Interesting show. We also have to admit that on some level we signed up to get hosed by being in the conference at all. That's the unspoken truth, and why every time we take a shafting nothing's ever said by the AD.
 
The older I get the more cynical I get about sports, politics, government at all levels, charitable organizations, big business, unions, academic institutions, religious organizations, wealthy people, poor people, all people.......:confused:
 
The older I get the more cynical I get about sports, politics, government at all levels, charitable organizations, big business, unions, academic institutions, religious organizations, wealthy people, poor people, all people.......:confused:

Ditto. Agree wholeheartedly
 
Caught this re-run from CNBC on Sirius radio tonight on the way home from Harrisburg. Tim Donaghy is featured. There's a clip of some of what he had to say here:

http://www.thesportsbank.net/nba/tim-donaghy-resurfaces-in-cnbc-doc-truth-about-lies/

To summarize all that he said, basically when he entered the NBA as a rookie ref he tried to call things according to the book. He quickly came to understand that other officials were passing him on the ladder to plum games and playoff assignments. Older officials started to let Donaghy in on the way things ran. You don't call traveling or fouls on the stars, the big market teams, or the popular players in the sporting goods stores. The league never came out and said "Call the games this way" but league officials would send emails and memos indicating that certain things needed to be adhered to. So Donaghy has it figured out now, he knows tendencies of the other refs, which ref is whose "boy." Big advantage. Not going to get into the rest of it, most know the story.

This is the first time I recall hearing a pro official admit publicly that it's a railroad job. How naive not to think it happens in the major NCAA conferences. Of course most of us have known this for 20 years but now an ex-official has said as much. If it's on demand check it out. It'll probably be on again sometime. Interesting show. We also have to admit that on some level we signed up to get hosed by being in the conference at all. That's the unspoken truth, and why every time we take a shafting nothing's ever said by the AD.
Hi book, Personal Foul, is a great read. It's hard to put down.
 
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Nothing earth shattering here. This was plain to see for a long time. The 1998 NBA playoffs still come to mind - both Indiana and Utah had the potential to defeat Chicago - but it turned out that they had to play beyond-perfect games to get over the refs. Ridiculous things like shots being waived off when they clearly beat the shot clock. Meanwhile Jordan and company could do no wrong and he usually ended up at the FT line if he ever missed a shot.
 
Agree with Fairgambit, and the old PSU Trustees and their cronies have really pushed me in the cynical direction...
 
When the 'Bad Boys' finally were the face of the NBA after losing to great teams full of stars in the Celtics and Lakers, david Stern had to change the NBA. He made it about the players rather than the teams. Not saying Jordan isnt the best of all time or at least top couple and would have won championships anyhow but it was all about the individual matchups at that point. Jordan vs Barkley was what it was marketed as not Bulls vs Suns. Iverson vs Shaq and Kobe, rather than Sixers vs Lakers. etc
 
Have any former NBA refs. backed up Donaghy? I am not naive, so I am inclined to believe him. However, one could also challenge him because he has an ax to grind.
 
I get that Bob but I also think he has nothing to lose. His career is toast, his story is wholly believable. He's not denying he did what he did. Of course the league would say "Well who is going to believe a convicted felon." Too easy a cop out. People have eyes.
 
Anybody with a brain could see that Jordan was allowed to travel every time he drove to the basket, and was "fouled" just about every time he missed.
 
Caught this re-run from CNBC on Sirius radio tonight on the way home from Harrisburg. Tim Donaghy is featured. There's a clip of some of what he had to say here

http://www.thesportsbank.net/nba/tim-donaghy-resurfaces-in-cnbc-doc-truth-about-lies/

To summarize all that he said, basically when he entered the NBA as a rookie ref he tried to call things according to the book. He quickly came to understand that other officials were passing him on the ladder to plum games and playoff assignments. Older officials started to let Donaghy in on the way things ran. You don't call traveling or fouls on the stars, the big market teams, or the popular players in the sporting goods stores. The league never came out and said "Call the games this way" but league officials would send emails and memos indicating that certain things needed to be adhered to. So Donaghy has it figured out now, he knows tendencies of the other refs, which ref is whose "boy." Big advantage. Not going to get into the rest of it, most know the story.

This is the first time I recall hearing a pro official admit publicly that it's a railroad job. How naive not to think it happens in the major NCAA conferences. Of course most of us have known this for 20 years but now an ex-official has said as much. If it's on demand check it out. It'll probably be on again sometime. Interesting show. We also have to admit that on some level we signed up to get hosed by being in the conference at all. That's the unspoken truth, and why every time we take a shafting nothing's ever said by the AD.
The guy is a convicted Felon for betting on games he officiated in. Tough to take anything he would say as gospel.
 
The guy is a convicted Felon for betting on games he officiated in. Tough to take anything he would say as gospel.

Yes, and after HE was convicted of a crime, nobody believed Jose Canseco when he said back in the early 90s that steroids was rampant in baseball.

Sometimes people with nothing to lose are the most honest.
 
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Let us suppose (just for discussion) a hypothetical official named Don Vitvoet got pinched in a gambling investigation. Let's say he admitted to betting football games in violation of state law wherever he lives (I assume Michigan.) Let's say there's an admission on Vitvoet's part that he made calls in certain games that maybe didn't effect the outcome, only the score. Let's just say for the sake of argument.

The next day Jim Delany comes out on BTN and says "There is no proof that Don Vitvoet did anything other than uphold the most stringent, exacting standards of Big Televenteen conference officiating, as he always has done. He is a walking deity. From our standpoint this investigation is over, and I demand an apology."

Vitvoet gets community service, a book deal where he spills his guts, and a $27 million dollar severance from the Big Televenteen. But now he's a convict. Keep in mind he was convicted of gambling, not lying. Who do you believe, Delany or Vitvoet? I know who I believe. I watch games.
 
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Yes, and after HE was convicted of a crime, nobody believed Jose Canseco when he said back in the early 90s that steroids was rampant in baseball.

Sometimes people with nothing to lose are the most honest.
That was no huge revelation. For Years there was a strong feeling guys were juicing. Guys that have a history of deception are foolish to trust.Its not usually a good bet.
 
Caught this re-run from CNBC on Sirius radio tonight on the way home from Harrisburg. Tim Donaghy is featured. There's a clip of some of what he had to say here:
So he conformed to get better assignments? He would not be a guy I would trust.
http://www.thesportsbank.net/nba/tim-donaghy-resurfaces-in-cnbc-doc-truth-about-lies/

To summarize all that he said, basically when he entered the NBA as a rookie ref he tried to call things according to the book. He quickly came to understand that other officials were passing him on the ladder to plum games and playoff assignments. Older officials started to let Donaghy in on the way things ran. You don't call traveling or fouls on the stars, the big market teams, or the popular players in the sporting goods stores. The league never came out and said "Call the games this way" but league officials would send emails and memos indicating that certain things needed to be adhered to. So Donaghy has it figured out now, he knows tendencies of the other refs, which ref is whose "boy." Big advantage. Not going to get into the rest of it, most know the story.

This is the first time I recall hearing a pro official admit publicly that it's a railroad job. How naive not to think it happens in the major NCAA conferences. Of course most of us have known this for 20 years but now an ex-official has said as much. If it's on demand check it out. It'll probably be on again sometime. Interesting show. We also have to admit that on some level we signed up to get hosed by being in the conference at all. That's the unspoken truth, and why every time we take a shafting nothing's ever said by the AD.
 
"So he conformed to get better assignments? He would not be a guy I would trust."

I don't know whether he did or he didn't, I have the book on order from amazon. But it's clear from his interview that other refs did, unless one believes he's completely lying which you apparently do, and that's fine. An argument could be made that he's selling books by lying and I understand that.
 
The older I get the more cynical I get about sports, politics, government at all levels, charitable organizations, big business, unions, academic institutions, religious organizations, wealthy people, poor people, all people.......:confused:
That about sums it up for me,also.
 
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