OT Student test scores drop for the first time in history.

dailybuck777

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Jan 2, 2018
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I realize this could be a very divisive and political topic. All I will say is that the people testing the worst generally had the biggest drops. There are very many very knowledgeable people here and I am interested in their commentary.
 
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bourbon n blues

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Nov 20, 2019
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The vaccination and medical threads have often generated political comments but are on the main board. I tried to keep it mostly non-political. However, I understand moving it to the test board and I am more than okay with that.
That whole board is off topic and a bigger cesspool than here.
 
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LionDeNittany

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May 29, 2001
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I realize this could be a very divisive and political topic. All I will say is that the people testing the worst generally had the biggest drops. There are very many very knowledgeable people here and I am interested in their commentary.

Did this thread get moved from BWI?

PearlJam is extremely far left. Anythimg potentially disparaging to the left he and Midnighter will always make political to get moved.

Any topic anti right they will argue is for the better good.

Little bitches.
 

Obliviax

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Aug 21, 2001
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I realize this could be a very divisive and political topic. All I will say is that the people testing the worst generally had the biggest drops. There are very many very knowledgeable people here and I am interested in their commentary.
there was an interesting book, written years ago, named the Bell Curve. Liberals hammered it for several reasons but one was that they suggested policy be written to offer better opportunities, not outcomes. This flies in the face of liberal agenda which suggests everyone is 100% equal so outcomes would be equal if there were equal opportunities.

Regardless, the takeaway I had that I thought was interesting is that testing is simply comparing the testee to standards and norms. For example, if you were testing someone that lived in NYC they'd probably score higher on how to navigate public transportation than someone that lived in Wyoming where they'd test better at how to drive over long distances. So if you ask the same questions of someone who is privileged versus someone who is not, you'll clearly get different answers to many questions. Since their norms and standards are different, if you ask the same question, you'll clearly get different answers. Then it is up to the tester to decide which answers are correct and which are wrong....again, to the tester's standards and norms.

All of this adds up to a bottom-line question and that is, what do we want our norms to be? And then, we should teach and test to these norms. Today, we have no norms. Hell, we can't even agree if there are men and women let alone if they are different and if so, how much different. (which is, or course, pretty obvious to even a one year old). This, then, lacks sensitivity to people who have not been "privileged" to live in those norms. You'd really have to have a different test for the person who grew up in manhattan versus queens, Cheyann Wyoming versus Kotey Place WY.

The bottom line to all of that is you cannot test without standards. But standards are different by person. And standards are insensitive to culture. So without standards, tests are worthless because there is no baseline to compare the subject to a norm (which doesn't and, perhaps, shouldn't exist)
 

PSUriseANDfire

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Jun 3, 2012
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Did this thread get moved from BWI?

PearlJam is extremely far left. Anythimg potentially disparaging to the left he and Midnighter will always make political to get moved.

Any topic anti right they will argue is for the better good.

Little bitches.
Eddie Vedder would be disappointed. He is completely in the middle of the isle 😂
 

Rip_E_2_Joe_PA

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Jun 9, 2002
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I realize this could be a very divisive and political topic. All I will say is that the people testing the worst generally had the biggest drops. There are very many very knowledgeable people here and I am interested in their commentary.

It's about time! Lol
 
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LionDeNittany

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May 29, 2001
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DFW, TX
there was an interesting book, written years ago, named the Bell Curve. Liberals hammered it for several reasons but one was that they suggested policy be written to offer better opportunities, not outcomes. This flies in the face of liberal agenda which suggests everyone is 100% equal so outcomes would be equal if there were equal opportunities.

Regardless, the takeaway I had that I thought was interesting is that testing is simply comparing the testee to standards and norms. For example, if you were testing someone that lived in NYC they'd probably score higher on how to navigate public transportation than someone that lived in Wyoming where they'd test better at how to drive over long distances. So if you ask the same questions of someone who is privileged versus someone who is not, you'll clearly get different answers to many questions. Since their norms and standards are different, if you ask the same question, you'll clearly get different answers. Then it is up to the tester to decide which answers are correct and which are wrong....again, to the tester's standards and norms.

All of this adds up to a bottom-line question and that is, what do we want our norms to be? And then, we should teach and test to these norms. Today, we have no norms. Hell, we can't even agree if there are men and women let alone if they are different and if so, how much different. (which is, or course, pretty obvious to even a one year old). This, then, lacks sensitivity to people who have not been "privileged" to live in those norms. You'd really have to have a different test for the person who grew up in manhattan versus queens, Cheyann Wyoming versus Kotey Place WY.

The bottom line to all of that is you cannot test without standards. But standards are different by person. And standards are insensitive to culture. So without standards, tests are worthless because there is no baseline to compare the subject to a norm (which doesn't and, perhaps, shouldn't exist)

The thing is that these standardized tests aren't the final answer.

So they should be completely standard across the US.

Why do people take the SAT? Or the STAAR or traditional standardized tests in grade and middle school?

They arent taken so little Joey in the village can be compared with little Tommy in the city.

One set of tests in grade and middle school is used to place students among their peers. And also determine the quality of instruction at a school. However with the latter of that the person who is doing the judging understands village vs city.

With the SAT. It is used for college admission. I can assure you that if you take two students one with a 1400 from Bronx High and another with a 1500 from Bespoke Named Private Elite HS the apply to U Penn, the Bronx kid is getting in 9 times out of ten.

Because the 1500 kid has 5 classmates ahead of him applying to Upenn as well.

So complaining about standardized testing is idiotic. They are only one input.
 

Obliviax

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Aug 21, 2001
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The thing is that these standardized tests aren't the final answer.

So they should be completely standard across the US.

Why do people take the SAT? Or the STAAR or traditional standardized tests in grade and middle school?

They arent taken so little Joey in the village can be compared with little Tommy in the city.

One set of tests in grade and middle school is used to place students among their peers. And also determine the quality of instruction at a school. However with the latter of that the person who is doing the judging understands village vs city.

With the SAT. It is used for college admission. I can assure you that if you take two students one with a 1400 from Bronx High and another with a 1500 from Bespoke Named Private Elite HS the apply to U Penn, the Bronx kid is getting in 9 times out of ten.

Because the 1500 kid has 5 classmates ahead of him applying to Upenn as well.

So complaining about standardized testing is idiotic. They are only one input.
well, I yelled at my daughter because she is getting an A in Spanish and a C in English "But English is what you speak!"
 

interrobang

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Aug 21, 2016
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Standardized tests are just another victim of the "equity" society.

If equal opportunity doesn't result in equal results, then cancel it because it's racist.
 

83wuzme

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Apr 27, 2005
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All over the country, there seems to be a coordinated effort to change the nature of education by making it something that isn’t education. It appears that critical thinking is the outcome to be avoided.
I have noticed for some time now that there seems to be a growing and generalized animus in education against individual achievement. I think the pressures caused by the pandemic have made this worse and call into question whether somebody is taking advantage of the situation to further this trend. We appear to be headed for a society where all instincts and abilities for leadership are being purged from young people.
 
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dailybuck777

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Democrats at work dumbing down the country. Wonder what the cultural problem is in teaching math because it is 100% objective. ""All of these results are concerning, but the math results were particularly daunting, particularly for 13 year-olds," she added. "I asked them to go back and check because I wanted to make sure [the results were accurate]. I've been reporting these results for years — for decades — and I've never reported a slide like that." https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...fall-for-first-time-in-national-tests-history


Similar to Baltimore where about 6 high schools did not have ONE student who met the state MINIMUMS.

Also, the Dems continue to dumb down the US by trying to eliminate gifted programs. Among the cities doing this are Seattle, NY, and Boston. See https://www.bing.com/search?form=MOZLBR&pc=MOZI&q=school+boards+eliminating+gifted+programs

Pathetic that Dems have no concern for black students (See Baltimore) and no concern for gifted students who will be bored to tears by being placed in average classes.
 

HartfordLlion

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Sep 28, 2001
20,097
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All over the country, there seems to be a coordinated effort to change the nature of education by making it something that isn’t education. It appears that critical thinking is the outcome to be avoided.
I have noticed for some time now that there seems to be a growing and generalized animus in education against individual achievement. I think the pressures caused by the pandemic have made this worse and call into question whether somebody is taking advantage of the situation to further this trend. We appear to be headed for a society where all instincts and abilities for leadership are being purged from young people.

Oh, they still care about critical thinking. Critical thinking was once used to get to the answer to tough problems. The same thing applies now except the answer is fluid and at time there is no wrong answer.
 

Steve G

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May 29, 2001
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It's actually a twist on that.

2+2 is 4.

If you are a special minority it is racists to ask for the answer.
what volume do you get if you add 2 ml of water plus 2 ml of ethyl alcohol? (you can ask Smithton/ PE89/ Mensa for confirmation of the answer)
 
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