OT: Rep Jim Jordan (OH) denies he turned a blind eye to sex abuse while at OSU.

[kgilbert78]

Probably so, but I would suppose you would agree that the media is not the proper guardian for us regarding what is important--that it is up to each of us to decide that for ourselves. Meanwhile, can you think of any reason why the OSU coach would appear on a videotape saying that he was worried about the mental state of his wrestlers because of how sexualized the wrestling facility was, if it were NOT true?

Well, I wasn't discussing that point at all. But personally, I think Jordan is toast--just like Al Franken was--whether he did anything wrong at all or not and fair or not.

As far as Hellickson's comments--I'd prefer to see them in context. The specific quotes you bolded above (I do not care to repeat them) do not seem to be specifically aimed at that doctor. Could have easily been wrestlers and could have been straight stuff too--or other students. As I recall, tOSU had a lot of the team and student facilities together at one point in Larkins Hall back in the day--but it's been a long time since I've been on campus near those facilities. Now they all are separate after Geiger went on his building kick and Larkins is a completely new building. Then? Not so much--I recall going down there for a gymnastics meet once--held in a little side gym (as opposed to St John Arena). Soccer was played on a grass field behind the tennis courts--which everyone used. Different times.

 

[WeR0206]

Yeah, did you see the quotes from the coach in the story about him catching people having sex? What he said about what the wrestlers dealt with?
https://www.daytondailynews.com/new...-former-wrestlers-say/lzfhebNU5mZ5WrRbfg3aFM/

How does catching people having sex equate to being told about the doc sexually abusing wrestlers?

Where’s the quote from the head coach saying “Yes, DiSabato told the coaching staff the team doc was sexually abusing him and others”?

Acknowledging that the doc had creepy showering habits is not the same as the head coach acknowledging he was told about sexual abuse

 

[demlion]

How does catching people having sex equate to being told about the doc sexually abusing wrestlers?

Where’s the quote from the head coach saying “Yes, DiSabato told the coaching staff the team doc was sexually abusing him and others”?

Acknowledging that the doc had creepy showering habits is not the same as the head coach acknowledging he was told about sexual abuse

The coach seemed to think it was having a negative effect on his wrestlers mental state. He complained to his administrators about it, he says.

The presumption of innocence does not include being willfully blind to what was going on there. Presuming innocence is a tool for seeking justice in criminal court.

Sounds like there was a whole lot of presuming innocence in the MSU case, to the point that they disbelieved the actual victims who made reports to them. That is a perversion of the presumption of innocence.

Not so sure there might not be something not so innocent about what went on in the wrestling room at OSU.

The presumption of innocence applies to criminal cases, in which charges have been filed against somebody. Who has been charged criminally here?

 

[Obliviax]

The coach seemed to think it was having a negative effect on his wrestlers mental state. He complained to his administrators about it, he says.

The presumption of innocence does not include being willfully blind to what was going on there. Presuming innocence is a tool for seeking justice in criminal court.

Sounds like there was a whole lot of presuming innocence in the MSU case, to the point that they disbelieved the actual victims who made reports to them. That is a perversion of the presumption of innocence.

Not so sure there might not be something not so innocent about what went on in the wrestling room at OSU.

The presumption of innocence applies to criminal cases, in which charges have been filed against somebody. Who has been charged criminally here?

Agree with everything you just said. The problem? If the presumption of guilt is allowed to persist you will wipe out just about any guy who wants to work with kids, especially at risk kids. If an accusation is allowed to become standard, good luck ever trying to get visitation with kids or divorce, charities with similar charters to the second mile, and battered women's homes.

we, as a society, have to have a balance or we will do much more damaging than good.

 

[PSU Dave]

If you have read some of my posts on the politics board, you would know the very low opinion i have of Comey and Mueller. I give no particular to credence to FBI directors. I was simply saying that in dealing with outsiders not familiar with your situation, you have an additional hurdle in that someone selected by PSU found substantial fault and guilt. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Freeh botched the investigation.

Freeh botch the investigation? Au'contraire mon ami. King Louis did precisely what he was told.

But I see you bought it hook, line and sinker. Consider yourself fresh fish. Our illustrious BOT below.

 

[LafayetteBear]

So you think he was supportive of someone he claims turned a blind eye to his abuse simply bc they have the same political leanings? That’s laughable!

What about Jason Bryant’s take on DiSabato? He’s pretty plugged into the wrestling community.

Many people are saying that Jason Bryant is non-credible. They’re calling him “Lyin’ Jason.” Sad!

 

[kgilbert78]

The coach seemed to think it was having a negative effect on his wrestlers mental state. He complained to his administrators about it, he says.

The presumption of innocence does not include being willfully blind to what was going on there. Presuming innocence is a tool for seeking justice in criminal court.

Sounds like there was a whole lot of presuming innocence in the MSU case, to the point that they disbelieved the actual victims who made reports to them. That is a perversion of the presumption of innocence.

Not so sure there might not be something not so innocent about what went on in the wrestling room at OSU.

The presumption of innocence applies to criminal cases, in which charges have been filed against somebody. Who has been charged criminally here?

Dem: Unless I'm reading your quotes from Hellickson wrong, it didn't seem like he was referring specifically to the doctor but to other shenanigans going on.

 

[demlion]

Many people are saying that Jason Bryant is non-credible. They’re calling him “Lyin’ Jason.” Sad!

Yeah, I am guessing there could come a day when Jason is at pains to say he was not so plugged in, after all.

 

[dailybuck777]

Also seems very likely the Dayton Daily News has seen or at least heard the Hellickson part of it, since they quote him precisely and at length in the news stories cited above.

On my end, I want to see the whole tape. Maybe the Dayton Daily News got it right. Maybe not -- the media screws up lots of things. On my part, before I evaluate the credibility and relevance of what Hellickson said, I would like to see the whole tape. Assuming there is a tape, why isn't it published online? No reason to quote it and then not publish the tape.

 

[demlion]

Dem: Unless I'm reading your quotes from Hellickson wrong, it didn't seem like he was referring specifically to the doctor but to other shenanigans going on.

Read this sentence right before it: "Hellickson recounts telling Strauss that he showered too frequently and too long with student-athletes."

"Lyin' DiSabato" was saying that the whole place was sexualized. I took it as Hellickson giving examples. Of course it COULD be that it was a sex show completely apart from Strauss's predations.

 

[demlion]

On my end, I want to see the whole tape. Maybe the Dayton Daily News got it right. Maybe not -- the media screws up lots of things. On my part, before I evaluate the credibility and relevance of what Hellickson said, I would like to see the whole tape. Assuming there is a tape, why isn't it published online? No reason to quote it and then not publish the tape.

Oh, I suspect you will get your wish one day.

 

[demlion]

I am a lawyer and I can tell you that there are multiple tell-tale signs of dishonesty in DiSabato's litigious history. He has proven that he will lie for money. He is not worthy of belief. Hellickson is a different matter. I would like to see his full statement. In the next several weeks, it will be very interesting to see if any of DiSabato's brothers support his allegations. If not, it will even more substantially undermine his claims.

I will add that, so far, on the surface, we have 2 potentially credible witnesses who contradict each other -- Hellickson and Pardos.

So I guess DiSabato gets no presumption of innocence? Got it.

 

[dailybuck777]

So I guess DiSabato gets no presumption of innocence?

He is not being accused of a crime. His credibility is at issue in the public arena. There are very substantial reasons to doubt his story. You could say the same about Pardos or Jordan -- if one were to accept your point of view. -- Why aren't they entitled to the presumption of innocence? This gets none of us anywhere.

On my end, seeing his record, I give him zero credibility. If you had a business and were considering hiring him, I doubt that you would.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

it is hilarious reading the posts defending Jordan from people who were JUST on the test board wailing about the alleged silent owner of the Red Hen, who is allegedly a pedophile, based on an anonymous Facebook post by an alleged former employee.

 

[cntblvitsbutter]

it is hilarious reading the posts defending Jordan from people who were JUST on the test board wailing about the alleged silent owner of the Red Hen, who is allegedly a pedophile, based on an anonymous Facebook post by an alleged former employee.

There's always that 30%.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

He is not being accused of a crime. His credibility is at issue in the public arena. There are very substantial reasons to doubt his story. You could say the same about Pardos or Jordan -- if one were to accept your point of view. -- Why aren't they entitled to the presumption of innocence? This gets none of us anywhere.

On my end, seeing his record, I give him zero credibility. If you had a business and were considering hiring him, I doubt that you would.

I might hire Mr. “Embrace the Grind” to skillfully flip signs around on a busy secondary road while wearing a Gorilla or T Rex costume, but that’s it. That dude is a dirt ball

 

[Chickenman Testa]

it is hilarious reading the posts defending Jordan from people who were JUST on the test board wailing about the alleged silent owner of the Red Hen, who is allegedly a pedophile, based on an anonymous Facebook post by an alleged former employee.

Not to mention calling a war hero who got tortured for years “McStain” because he’s probably not conservative enough for this new strain of conservatives. John McCain is 1000x the man that Jordan is.

 

[kgilbert78]

Not to mention calling a war hero who got tortured for years “McStain” because he’s probably not conservative enough for this new strain of conservatives. John McCain is 1000x the man that Jordan is.

Let's keep personal politics out of this as much as possible. Please.

Or take it to the test board.

This is a pretty serious issue that should be decided on the facts, which we do not full know yet, and not the person's political views. I felt the same way about Franken's situation, for example.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Let's keep personal politics out of this as much as possible. Please.

Or take it to the test board.

This is a pretty serious issue that should be decided on the facts, which we do not full know yet, and not the person's political views. I felt the same way about Franken's situation, for example.

I’m defending John McCain. The man didn’t serve our country for decades in war and on the Senate floor to be attacked by Lilliputians

 

[Obliviax]

I’m defending John McCain. The man didn’t serve our country for decades in war and on the Senate floor to be attacked by Lilliputians

do you have a link to a video or direct quotes? I trust the media zero percent. I am not saying your allegation isn't true, just would like to evaluate for myself. Despicable, if true. Politics has become bizarre.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

do you have a link to a video or direct quotes? I trust the media zero percent. I am not saying your allegation isn't true, just would like to evaluate for myself. Despicable, if true. Politics has become bizarre.

Sorry, it wasn’t Jordan. I was referring to a poster on this and other threads calling McCain a name.

But you’re right that politics is so bizarre. On the other side of the political spectrum, there’s a person on the Test Board criticizing the Trump fan getting assaulted by a bouncer in a Whataburger as being a wimp for not fighting the guy. Wackos on both sides need to chill out

 

[Obliviax]

Sorry, it wasn’t Jordan. I was referring to a poster on this and other threads calling McCain a name.

But you’re right that politics is so bizarre. On the other side of the political spectrum, there’s a person on the Test Board criticizing the Trump fan getting assaulted by a bouncer in a Whataburger as being a wimp for not fighting the guy. Wackos on both sides need to chill out

Sorry to have misunderstood. Yes, the level of nastiness is a crime in and of itself. I was raised to be a fierce debater but to respect the views of others. as long as they are not breaking the law (and sometimes even then) I try to be open to the dialogue. We all come at things from such sharp, different angles....(there are even those that lie!)

 

[kgilbert78]

I’m defending John McCain. The man didn’t serve our country for decades in war and on the Senate floor to be attacked by Lilliputians

That's fine--if the topic were McCain. It isn't. Even if it were, that's getting close to test board status.

Edit: Ok--I see where you were replying to others. Still, we are veering close to test board status with that.

 

[kgilbert78]

Sorry to have misunderstood. Yes, the level of nastiness is a crime in and of itself. I was raised to be a fierce debater but to respect the views of others. as long as they are not breaking the law (and sometimes even then) I try to be open to the dialogue. We all come at things from such sharp, different angles....(there are even those that lie!)

Part of the issue is that folks do not know how to debate anymore. Plus we have the "death of truth" in the increasing move toward post-modernism (even if folks do not know what that is) and the postulate that there is no objective truth.

That allows folks (of all types) to be able to hold two completely contradictory beliefs--at the same time--and not see any conflict at all. Try pinning down some millennials (though they are not the only ones guilty) to any line of logical argument and your head will spin....

 

[Alphabets]

They knew. They all knew.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...estler-says-rep-jim-jordan-knew-about-n889071

 

[BobPSU92]

Has Tosu been burned down to the ground yet?

 

[ChiTownLion]

They knew. They all knew.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...estler-says-rep-jim-jordan-knew-about-n889071

Team captain.

 

[dailybuck777]

Team captain.

View embedded media

View embedded media

Seriously. Yetts was jailed for fraud. DiSabato has had mutiple failed lawsuits, including one where he claimed he was owed $480,000 on the basis of an oral contract. It is all upthread. Both Yetts and DiSabato have proven that they will lie for money.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Wendy's tweet expresses the same question that has been bothering me. WTF was up with this supposed daily showering ritual in the tOSU athletic showers?! Professors and other assorted old dudes heading over at 3:30 PM every day to take that can't miss shower with the tOSU wrestlers? "Excessive soaping of their groin area?" Eeeewww! "Public masturbation?" Someone should have kicked them, literally, out of the shower area, and all the way out of the building. This sounds like something that might occur at a NAMBLA get together. (And to be clear, I'm only guessing about that.).

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

Wendy's tweet expresses the same question that has been bothering me. WTF was up with this supposed daily showering ritual in the tOSU athletic showers?! Professors and other assorted old dudes heading over at 3:30 PM every day to take that can't miss shower with the tOSU wrestlers? "Excessive soaping of their groin area?" Eeeewww! "Public masturbation?" Someone should have kicked them, literally, out of the shower area, and all the way out of the building. This sounds like something that might occur at a NAMBLA get together. (And to be clear, I'm only guessing about that.).

Who would believe that to be true? Then or now? It's a ridiculous claim.

The team doctor showering with atheltes? OK.

Random professors who work out in the building? Maybe.

Regularly, & obviously circle jerking while some of the strongest males (trained in fighting skills) on campus are there to see, in the 80s & 90s? Not likely. Virtually impossible.

At best for these accusers it seems like a very big exaggeration of the situation. They might have joked and poked fun at someone or two people. Maybe there were some pervs lurking around. But I highly doubt that professors were openly masturbating in the shower with athletes at 330 PM at OSU or any school. They'd have been outed long long ago. They'd have had black eyes & broken ribs contemporaneously. You think this would go on regularly & whole generations of teams would just slam their lockers & walk away?

Ridiculous.

 

[dailybuck777]

WTF was up with this supposed daily showering ritual in the tOSU athletic showers?! Professors and other assorted old dudes heading over at 3:30 PM every day to take that can't miss shower with the tOSU wrestlers?

I vaguely remember about 10 or 15 years ago that the wrestlers were complaining that they were being gawked at in the showers. Tried to look it up online, but couldn't find anything. I could be way off, but I have a vague memory that they were lectured about gay sensitivities and were also given more privacy. I suspect they were showering in a public gym and a fair amount of people believed that unless the wrestlers vigorously complained they were fair game for at least gawking. I don't remember the complaints focusing on faculty members; rather, my memory is that they were complaining about OSU community members at large, which would have included some faculty members.

[Later edit -- Possibly 20 or 25 years ago]

 

[ChiTownLion]

The question is what did Ed Ray know, and when? He was at OSU from 1970-2003.

 

[dailybuck777]

Another case where DiSabato claimed breach of an oral contract and then later dismissed. See https://fcdcfcjs.co.franklin.oh.us/CaseInformationOnline /caseSearch?6Zu8JPVc0FQ5VPvqXDTC (18 CV 000389)

Also, go to the Franklin County (Ohio) clerk of courts website and its name search function. https://fcdcfcjs.co.franklin.oh.us/CaseInformationOnline/nameSearch

Put in DiSabato for last name and Mi for first name. There are a very large number of cases. Case No. 18 CV 005230 deals with a claim against DiSabato filed on 6/19/18 claiming that he engaged in a fraudulent transfer. Apparently, his wife is Patricia DiSabato.

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

The question is what did Ed Ray know, and when? He was at OSU from 1970-2003.

Well, Ray is a eunuch, so he wasn't one of the masturbating perverts...

 

[LionJim]

Seriously. Yetts was jailed for fraud. DiSabato has had mutiple failed lawsuits, including one where he claimed he was owed $480,000 on the basis of an oral contract. It is all upthread. Both Yetts and DiSabato have proven that they will lie for money.

What about Shawn Dailey?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/f...ch/ar-AAzAdnG?li=BBnbcA1&srcref=rss&OCID=AMZN

 

[demlion]

What about Shawn Dailey?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/f...ch/ar-AAzAdnG?li=BBnbcA1&srcref=rss&OCID=AMZN

Oops. That one's gonna leave a mark.

I am guessing the response is that Dailey, too, is a lying degenerate, devoid of honor and decency, who is merely looking for a payday.

Maybe we are focused on the wrong scandal. Maybe the real problem is that OSU's wrestlers are all criminal scum.

 

[demlion]

Part of the issue is that folks do not know how to debate anymore. Plus we have the "death of truth" in the increasing move toward post-modernism (even if folks do not know what that is) and the postulate that there is no objective truth.

That allows folks (of all types) to be able to hold two completely contradictory beliefs--at the same time--and not see any conflict at all. Try pinning down some millennials (though they are not the only ones guilty) to any line of logical argument and your head will spin....

You mean like the belief that 1)Jim Jordan could not have known about any of this others say was going on around him, was a good and honorable man, and 2) all these wrestlers he coached turned out to be lying grifters who would say anything for money?

That kind of contradictory beliefs?

 

[Alphalion75]

We all need to take a step back and allow the truth to come out. Of all people, we should know that the truth does not reveal itself in the court of public opinion.

 

[wensilver]

Seriously. Yetts was jailed for fraud. DiSabato has had mutiple failed lawsuits, including one where he claimed he was owed $480,000 on the basis of an oral contract. It is all upthread. Both Yetts and DiSabato have proven that they will lie for money.

Okay. You can just stop.

MMQ has lied to save his ass.

Frank Fina has lied to save his ass.

Louis Freeh gets PAID to LIE.

Spin it all you want - Internet Outrage Rules are Rules. Besides, I've been threatened with rape and assault by OSU fans - I have been told that am a Football Crazed Child Rape Enabling JoeBot, more concerned about a dead coach and football wins than common human decency.

I hate football, I'm a victim of sexual abuse & rape - and now I get to make the rules.

Everyone at OSU KNEW about this disgusting culture in Men's Athletics. And you all knew about well before, during and after the Sandusky and Nassar shitstorms happened, and YOU ALL REMAINED SILENT.


BURN IT DOWN.

ALL OF IT

 

[demlion]

We all need to take a step back and allow the truth to come out. Of all people, we should know that the truth does not reveal itself in the court of public opinion.

Which truth are we waiting for again? The truth about Jim Jordan's character? Or the truth about his accusers, who have been accused of stuff even worse than what he did?