OT: Questions for hunters and farmers...

[nittanyfan333]

Legitimate question Dan. Did you pose these questions so that you could try to sway people that are ok with the ban on hunting on Sundays, and recruit them for your grassroots campaign? or were you legitimately looking for peoples opinions? I'm seriously curious.

I spent Sunday afternoon in Harrisburg meeting with a group of people who are interested in bringing change to the situation. There were representatives from the Game Commission, from the Governor's office, state legislature, existing leadership within the movement, and another 3 or 4 dozen people who were interested in being part of the grass roots movement, drumming up support from others in their counties.

I was actually interested in people's opinion, so that I could gauge the level of resistance and see what the issues were. We discussed them in the meeting yesterday, but I wanted to see what the McAndrew board said. I also wanted to try to respond to critics with some (hopefully) inteligent and logical responses that may alleviate their concerns and soften their position. The final and most important reason for my posting was to see whether there were like minded people who would be willing to be involved (not much more than signing a petition).

The reality is that even though the majority of hunters approve of removing the ban, and even a simple majority of the overall population are OK with the idea, it is not likely to change tomorrow and even then it may likely be changes in stepwise fashion. We already can hunt foxes, coyotes, and crows on Sunday. It was interesting to learn that the whole fox hunting thing was the first toe hold, and that was because some rich woman in Chester County wanted to go fox hunting on horse back on Sunday.

Gotcha. Reading more of these posts, I think the idea that some people can only hunt the weekends isn’t a big deal for the farmers out there. I know my family gets the wives to milk Monday morning so they can all hunt, then whoever gets a deer are the designated milkers for the rest of the week. Heck, even our cousins that work M-F jobs save up pto so they can have the first few days of the season, if not the whole first week off. I think that’s part of the tradition of PA hunting season, at least for me and my family. But I completely understand the weekend warrior argument.

I’d also say that without a long season (like the mid-oct through 2 January gun season here in N.C.) I just don’t personally see jumping right to Sunday hunting happening right away. I’d definitely look to getting Sunday hunting in archery season first, and work up to gun season. Good luck though man. I really have no personal dog in the fight, as I usually make it up to good old Airville for the first week of the season, so Sunday hunting doesn’t much effect me.

 

[BBG65]

I'm an avid hunter and I have no religious objection to hunting on Sundays. However, I do think it's a good thing to give hunters and game a forced day off. I know guys [ me included] whose competitive nature or obsession or whatever you want to call it, would have us out there every day possible. Those forced Sundays away from the woods gives us time to spend with our families without feeling we are losing opportunities. The other side of the coin is the guy who works 6 days and Sunday is his only day off.

 

[Ct. Lion]

Ranger, a lot of our public hunting is in areas adjacent to heavily used outdoor recreation areas. Forbes State forest, Game lands 51 and the Ohiopyle State park all have walking / hiking trails and now some mountain biking going on all year around. I would not be in the woods during hunting season trying to hike or walk on a trail. I like to be able to use these areas when people are not hunting. JMO, I prefer Sunday's as non hunting and have expressed that opinion to the game officials.

Then be willing to pay a fee similar to what hunters, fishermen and trappers pay to use any lands in the state including private lands. You pay nothing yet always bitch about those who pay. Pony up or shut up.

 

[Ct. Lion]

I'm an avid hunter and I have no religious objection to hunting on Sundays. However, I do think it's a good thing to give hunters and game a forced day off. I know guys [ me included] whose competitive nature or obsession or whatever you want to call it, would have us out there every day possible. Those forced Sundays away from the woods gives us time to spend with our families without feeling we are losing opportunities. The other side of the coin is the guy who works 6 days and Sunday is his only day off.

Take Wednesday off as a vacation day then, there is no excuse to eliminate the one day of the week a working person has to spend doing what he or she wants. There is plenty of land in Pa. and other states that does not allow any hunting of any kind on any day. Go visit one of those places.

 

[wilykyote]

I am in favor of Sunday hunting. The prohibition is a useless tradition of the past like daylight savings time, and the Sunday drinking laws. Sunday is the only day for some to get out hunting.

 

[WDLion]

If you are a hunter, would you like to make your own decision about whether or not it's appropriate to hunt on Sunday in PA (as long as it was within legal season)?

If you are a farmer, are you categorically opposed to the thought of hunting on Sunday, or would you be OK with certain limited hunting on Sunday on private land (where the land owner gave permission)? Would increased penalties for trespassing make you more willing to accept hunting on Sunday?

Obviously, I can't limit the responses to just hunters or farmers, so if you respond, can you please indicate whether you are a FH (farmer/hunter), FNH (farmer/non-hunter), NFH (non-farmer/hunter), or NFNH (non-farmer/non-hunter). If you don't indicate otherwise, I will assume that you are a NFNH. Also, if you don't live in PA, please indicate that in your response as well.

Only during daylight savings time.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Would there be incremental costs for game wardens, etc?

No, the game wardens work a 7 day schedule (staggered days off during the week) and most poaching actually takes place on Sunday because no hunters are in the woods.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I'm an avid hunter and I have no religious objection to hunting on Sundays. However, I do think it's a good thing to give hunters and game a forced day off. I know guys [ me included] whose competitive nature or obsession or whatever you want to call it, would have us out there every day possible. Those forced Sundays away from the woods gives us time to spend with our families without feeling we are losing opportunities. The other side of the coin is the guy who works 6 days and Sunday is his only day off.

Coyotes don't give prey a day off... also, because you want to not hunt on Sunday because of your family, you think it's acceptable to prohibit a dad from hunting with his family on Sunday?

 

[Ranger Dan]

Take Wednesday off as a vacation day then, there is no excuse to eliminate the one day of the week a working person has to spend doing what he or she wants. There is plenty of land in Pa. and other states that does not allow any hunting of any kind on any day. Go visit one of those places.

I am in favor of Sunday hunting. The prohibition is a useless tradition of the past like daylight savings time, and the Sunday drinking laws. Sunday is the only day for some to get out hunting.

If you are interested in learning more about the grass roots movement to eliminate the ban on Sunday hunting, send me an e-mail at dbcooper175@hotmail.com

 

[wilbury]

I'm an avid hunter and I've been an active opponent of Sunday hunting. The numbers of hunters continues to decline while outdoor enthusiasts (hikers, nature lovers, bird watchers, etc.) continues to grow. Typically, these other users of game lands, state forests, etc. don't use the land during hunting season because it's not safe. I'd advocate user fees to boost revenue for the game commission and keep the Sunday hunting restriction to allow a growing population of users to share access to hunting lands during the ever lengthening hunting season.

 

[LionJim]

I'm an avid hunter and I've been an active opponent of Sunday hunting. The numbers of hunters continues to decline while outdoor enthusiasts (hikers, nature lovers, bird watchers, etc.) continues to grow. Typically, these other users of game lands, state forests, etc. don't use the land during hunting season because it's not safe. I'd advocate user fees to boost revenue for the game commission and keep the Sunday hunting restriction to allow a growing population of users to share access to hunting lands during the ever lengthening hunting season.

Ah.

 

[LionJim]

This isn't exactly germane to the discussion, but I used to have a colleague from work who grew up on a farm in Cloverly, Maryland. He'd tell me that on some Sundays he'd beg his father to let him get the hay or whatever put in the barn before it got ruined by the rain. "No. It's God's will."

 

[strider94]

I spent Sunday afternoon in Harrisburg meeting with a group of people who are interested in bringing change to the situation. There were representatives from the Game Commission, from the Governor's office, state legislature, existing leadership within the movement, and another 3 or 4 dozen people who were interested in being part of the grass roots movement, drumming up support from others in their counties.

I was actually interested in people's opinion, so that I could gauge the level of resistance and see what the issues were. We discussed them in the meeting yesterday, but I wanted to see what the McAndrew board said. I also wanted to try to respond to critics with some (hopefully) inteligent and logical responses that may alleviate their concerns and soften their position. The final and most important reason for my posting was to see whether there were like minded people who would be willing to be involved (not much more than signing a petition).

The reality is that even though the majority of hunters approve of removing the ban, and even a simple majority of the overall population are OK with the idea, it is not likely to change tomorrow and even then it may likely be changes in stepwise fashion. We already can hunt foxes, coyotes, and crows on Sunday. It was interesting to learn that the whole fox hunting thing was the first toe hold, and that was because some rich woman in Chester County wanted to go fox hunting on horse back on Sunday.

The main opponent is the PA Farm Bureau as per my local state rep.

 

[LionJim]

The main opponent is the PA Farm Bureau as per my local state rep.

What's their beef with it?

 

[phillybillyreprise]

I am not a hunter. I grew up in rural Lancaster County. What I remember most about hunting season is that mom made my brother and me wear ugly very brightly colored jackets.

What are the hours you are permitted to hunt during the weekdays and Saturdays? I remember hearing gun shots early in the morning and after school.

 

[Ranger Dan]

The main opponent is the PA Farm Bureau as per my local state rep.

Yes, that is correct. Anecdotally, based upon a couple of farmer/hunters at the meeting I attended, this is a position taken at the top of the PA Farm Bureau as opposed to something that individual PFB members are ever polled about or asked to vote on. This is why the Sunday hunting movement is being held back by the counties of Lancaster, York, and Dauphin, which have a lot of traditional farmers and the legislators in these counties are catering to the PFB.

 

[Ranger Dan]

What's their beef with it?

I see what you did there...

 

[Cletus11]

So again...isn't the simplest thing to do allow Hunting the mid Sunday during rifle season. A majority of hunters are rifle hunters. That is only one Sunday during the year and would satisfy most people.

 

[Ranger Dan]

So again...isn't the simplest thing to do allow Hunting the mid Sunday during rifle season. A majority of hunters are rifle hunters. That is only one Sunday during the year and would satisfy most people.

As I said in one of my posts in this thread, any progress is likely to be the result in compromise. Some of the logical compromises are gradual roll out by species or by weapon (e.g. archery only).

 

[Carl Spackler]

Hunter with farming roots. I am on the fence on this issue. I would support youth only hunting on Sundays and/or a Sunday hunting "stamp."

I'm similar to you, grew up on a dairy farm in WPA and in a hunting family. If it was on private land and with permission I don't have a big problem. Yet many hunters used my father's land without permission and said they had permission from our neighbors who didn't own the land. I'm sure this happens most everywhere so only honorable hunters would be allowed under my system with a system to determine honorable hunters yet TBD.

The intruders were almost always from the Altoona area and knew of our neighbors name which was well known among hunters, apparently. The locals did not intrude, the outsiders did with utter disregard or concern, arrogantly. I know because I approached several over the years. They always feigned ignorance of the property, passing signs all the way.

 

[nittanyfan333]

Yes, that is correct. Anecdotally, based upon a couple of farmer/hunters at the meeting I attended, this is a position taken at the top of the PA Farm Bureau as opposed to something that individual PFB members are ever polled about or asked to vote on. This is why the Sunday hunting movement is being held back by the counties of Lancaster, York, and Dauphin, which have a lot of traditional farmers and the legislators in these counties are catering to the PFB.

My entire family are members of the PFB, and you're absolutely right. As with most organizations, it's run by those at the top. They complain all the time about wanting things changed and the majority voting for them at county meetings, but they never change.

 

[Ranger Dan]

My entire family are members of the PFB, and you're absolutely right. As with most organizations, it's run by those at the top. They complain all the time about wanting things changed and the majority voting for them at county meetings, but they never change.

Are you and or your family active farmers currently? It is my understanding that you have to be an active farmer (commercial operation) in order to attend meetings and vote on issues. I would really like to get some direct input from someone who is in the active farmer category.

 

[dmallory7]

wait..... you think I'm anti-hunting?

sorry. comment intended for sr108

 

[dmallory7]

Do you think the coyote, bear, fox, and other predators give the prey animals a day of rest on Sunday? I agree with you about landowners not owning the game...

No I don't think they give the prey any rest. However, they hunt to survive, not to manage or balance herds and habitat. We, as hunters, have a responsibility to maintain appropriate balances in nature because we can. We have choices - predators don't.

 

[KnightSlayer]

Then be willing to pay a fee similar to what hunters, fishermen and trappers pay to use any lands in the state including private lands. You pay nothing yet always bitch about those who pay. Pony up or shut up.

You've convinced me. I am now absolutely against Sunday hunting. I'll let my local rep know that he should think of the children and can't they have one day without the threat of being shot. 6 days a week is more than enough for the hunters and shouldn't non hunters have 1 day out of 7 where they can enjoy the woods in peace.

 

[Cletus11]

As I said in one of my posts in this thread, any progress is likely to be the result in compromise. Some of the logical compromises are gradual roll out by species or by weapon (e.g. archery only).

or a compromise that satisfies a huge majority of hunters (which is rifle season) and satisfies those who don't want Sunday hunting because it is only one Sunday. Seems like the most logical compromise.

 

[TheGLOV]

Hunter with farming roots. I am on the fence on this issue. I would support youth only hunting on Sundays and/or a Sunday hunting "stamp."

A farmer who like a fence. Imagine that!

 

[nittanyfan333]

Are you and or your family active farmers currently? It is my understanding that you have to be an active farmer (commercial operation) in order to attend meetings and vote on issues. I would really like to get some direct input from someone who is in the active farmer category.

I have since moved away, however my family still owns and operates a 1000 acre 150 head of cattle dairy operation in southern York county which I visit for AT LEAST hunting season, if not two or 3 times a year. Last we talked about it (two hunting seasons ago) they were still active members of the PFB, although that could have changed since we last talked about it. Let me contact my cousins and see if they're willing to talk to you about it. I'll message you if they're willing to converse.

 

[nittanyfan333]

sorry. comment intended for sr108

gotcha. no problem

 

[wbcincy]

I'm an avid hunter and I have no religious objection to hunting on Sundays. However, I do think it's a good thing to give hunters and game a forced day off. I know guys [ me included] whose competitive nature or obsession or whatever you want to call it, would have us out there every day possible. Those forced Sundays away from the woods gives us time to spend with our families without feeling we are losing opportunities. The other side of the coin is the guy who works 6 days and Sunday is his only day off.

Yikes. No offense but the essential logic of "have the government restrict freedoms so I'm forced to do what's right" is pretty terrible.

 

[KnightSlayer]

Yikes. No offense but the essential logic of "have the government restrict freedoms so I'm forced to do what's right" is pretty terrible.

Like forcing bars to close at 2:00 am?

 

[Carl Spackler]

The main opponent is the PA Farm Bureau as per my local state rep.

If that's the case good luck changing anything. They hold a lot of power in Harrisburg.

 

[wbcincy]

Like forcing bars to close at 2:00 am?

There are greater safety concerns involved in that decision. I understand the gov't regulates many freedoms, but to say we shouldn't be allowed to participate in an activity on a particular day so that we're forced to be with our families....

 

[TheBumble]

No I don't think they give the prey any rest. However, they hunt to survive, not to manage or balance herds and habitat. We, as hunters, have a responsibility to maintain appropriate balances in nature because we can. We have choices - predators don't.

A deer's sole existence is just surviving. They're pretty good at it. Even during the heart of rifle season the majority of the day is darkness when the deer do whatever they need to do. If Sundays are opened the PGC would adjust season lengths and tags sold to keep the harvests where they want. We certainly aren't going to cause deer any excessive stress by not giving them a "day off."

 

[Indian rocks rich]

My wife and I like to hike in the great Penn's Woods.
It's nice to have a day of the week in the Fall when you don't have to worry about hunters.

Well your allowed to hunt crow fox and coyote on Sunday legally already so you should always wear a orange hat or coat while hiking. If there are hunters in the woods just walk by and continue hiking the hunters will continue hunting. No problem I would like to hunt on Sunday public land should be available for everyone to use

 

[Indian rocks rich]

If you are a hunter, would you like to make your own decision about whether or not it's appropriate to hunt on Sunday in PA (as long as it was within legal season)?

If you are a farmer, are you categorically opposed to the thought of hunting on Sunday, or would you be OK with certain limited hunting on Sunday on private land (where the land owner gave permission)? Would increased penalties for trespassing make you more willing to accept hunting on Sunday?

Obviously, I can't limit the responses to just hunters or farmers, so if you respond, can you please indicate whether you are a FH (farmer/hunter), FNH (farmer/non-hunter), NFH (non-farmer/hunter), or NFNH (non-farmer/non-hunter). If you don't indicate otherwise, I will assume that you are a NFNH. Also, if you don't live in PA, please indicate that in your response as well.

As for the farmers deer ruin /damage their crops. I would guess a high percent of farmers would agree to hunting on sundays . The farmers that hunt might not like the idea

 

[Indian rocks rich]

You've convinced me. I am now absolutely against Sunday hunting. I'll let my local rep know that he should think of the children and can't they have one day without the threat of being shot. 6 days a week is more than enough for the hunters and shouldn't non hunters have 1 day out of 7 where they can enjoy the woods in peace.

It’s actually 1 day a week if you work the other 5

 

[Indian rocks rich]

I'm similar to you, grew up on a dairy farm in WPA and in a hunting family. If it was on private land and with permission I don't have a big problem. Yet many hunters used my father's land without permission and said they had permission from our neighbors who didn't own the land. I'm sure this happens most everywhere so only honorable hunters would be allowed under my system with a system to determine honorable hunters yet TBD.

The intruders were almost always from the Altoona area and knew of our neighbors name which was well known among hunters, apparently. The locals did not intrude, the outsiders did with utter disregard or concern, arrogantly. I know because I approached several over the years. They always feigned ignorance of the property, passing signs all the way.

Yea that sucks for all the good decent rule following hunters. Pisses me off when a^#ho#es do that

 

[psu ironman]

Yea that sucks for all the good decent rule following hunters. Pisses me off when a^#ho#es do that

What you obviously don't understand based on your comments in this thread is that there is a very large percentage of these guys that are assholes.

 

[dwiz]

The reality is that even though the majority of hunters approve of removing the ban, and even a simple majority of the overall population are OK with the idea, it is not likely to change tomorrow and even then it may likely be changes in stepwise fashion. We already can hunt foxes, coyotes, and crows on Sunday. It was interesting to learn that the whole fox hunting thing was the first toe hold, and that was because some rich woman in Chester County wanted to go fox hunting on horse back on Sunday.

I have family down there and we were driving on one of the back roads and these gangsters looking like they were from the 1700s came out over a field into the road with like 20 people on horseback with like 30 beagles leading them charging over the road. Apparently it was the DuPonts fox hunting.