OT: Odds of getting into University Park

[ThePennsyOracle]

Interesting thread. I have a related question …. It has been recommended that marginal students initially declare themselves DUS and transfer into the more competitive majors later on.

Assuming that a dedicated undergrad takes (and gets good grades) all of the same base/required courses and electives as those officially in a competitive major, is it easy to transfer from DUS into say a STEM program or Nursing/Health?

For this strategy to work, it would seemingly require a number of students to drop-out of these majors during Frosh and Soph years.

Im interested to hear from others that have been successful doing this

It depends on the specific major. Some have acceptance caps and other types of enrollment controls. Theoretically it is easy to transfer from DUS, but you have to be somewhat careful because seats in certain STEM-related classes aren't exactly plentiful.

In other words--if you enter DUS to ostensibly major in Basket Weaving, it can be done. But when it comes time to switch to Chemical Engineering, you need to meet entrance to major requirements that Basket Weavers wouldn't normally take.

 

[Lion Son/Husband/Father]

Interesting thread. I have a related question …. It has been recommended that marginal students initially declare themselves DUS and transfer into the more competitive majors later on.

Assuming that a dedicated undergrad takes (and gets good grades) all of the same base/required courses and electives as those officially in a competitive major, is it easy to transfer from DUS into say a STEM program or Nursing/Health?

For this strategy to work, it would seemingly require a number of students to drop-out of these majors during Frosh and Soph years.

Im interested to hear from others that have been successful doing this

Son 2 was just north of average, good grades, lots of sports excellence, all around solid kid, but got Altoona. We called the admission office, pleaded our case, they told us if he dropped business major and requested LArts, he’d get main. Apparently the college of business was full. He did that, was enrolled in finance end of fall, graduated cum laude and just got a giant promotion after 26 months on the job. IMO, psu‘s greatness is their on campus recruiting. 1&2 both left State gainfully employed, and that’s all that matters to me.
For reference, Indiana and Illinois also said yes. Wisconsin said no.

 

[Art]

In my opinion:

The quantity of college students is now greater than it was when most on this board graduated from PSU. Not everyone went to college in past years, and nowadays, a Bachelor's degree is largely the standard for middle-class life unless you're trades (or own your own business). Higher Ed now sees more and more niche Liberal Arts-type majors that need students from "somewhere." Reality is that many of these majors don't require higher math and other quantitative skills, but have plenty of "quantity" to choose from.

My wife has a different take on that. Her observation is that the quality of high school students has diminished. The top, say 10-25%, are as good as they've always been, but the rest aren't. They're don't want to work, aren't interested in learning. Trying to change that is a losing battle, so the secondary schools push them on to the next level. And the colleges take them regardless of their motivation or preparation. The reason is obvious: gotta fill all of those seats.

Maybe it would change if those that run higher education would push back and tell the masses "you really don't belong here." But the only ones that can do that are those who run places like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, etc.

 

[nittlion]

Son 2 was just north of average, good grades, lots of sports excellence, all around solid kid, but got Altoona. We called the admission office, pleaded our case, they told us if he dropped business major and requested LArts, he’d get main. Apparently the college of business was full. He did that, was enrolled in finance end of fall, graduated cum laude and just got a giant promotion after 26 months on the job. IMO, psu‘s greatness is their on campus recruiting. 1&2 both left State gainfully employed, and that’s all that matters to me.
For reference, Indiana and Illinois also said yes. Wisconsin said no.

Good for your son, the end game is all that is important. That's awesome. My first is headed to Wisconsin, he had no interest in staying in PA unfortunately. My second wants PSU but she'll be on the bubble for UP. Nice to hear there are so many options between branches, majors and summers.

 

[kgilbert78]

My daughter was accepted into Penn State, but the out of state cost is crazy. She is headed to Arkansas on a partial scholarship instead. It will save us $120k over 4 years. Wooo Pig!

Had a buddy of mine from there who always thought that Matt Suhey should have played there....

 

[Lion Son/Husband/Father]

Good for your son, the end game is all that is important. That's awesome. My first is headed to Wisconsin, he had no interest in staying in PA unfortunately. My second wants PSU but she'll be on the bubble for UP. Nice to hear there are so many options between branches, majors and summers.

Son 2 finished HS in Chicago. We visited W our first summer (1 came with) that place is AWESOME. We all loved it. A little heartbroken I’m going to miss the State W game.

 

[tboyer]

She's definitely in, but U Park is not a sure thing.
1) Get application in early.
2) Declare desire to start summer semester (PSU wants to fill summer classes). And starting in summer is a great thing to do anyway -- you get course-selection preference over all the freshmen starting in the fall which is no small thing.
3) Human and Family Studies or Liberal Arts (psychology) not as selective as, say, business. And she can always transfer after 1st semester.
4) Be open to Commonwealth Campus if that's where she gets in. People often have a fabulous experience at a place like Mont Alto or Altoona because it's a small college atmosphere, and then you and your friends all go to U Park for Junior and Senior year. So it becomes the best of both worlds.
5) Pitt financial aid can be better so that might matter too. And Pitt is a wonderful place to go to school too -- though obviously there's nothing like PSU football.

My niece's #1 choice is PSU, so long as she gets into University Park. My concern is she visited Pitt last week as a potential back up option...

I felt there was zero doubt she gets in, but wondered if any folks here with better insights agreed. Here are her relevant stats/info:

• PA resident
• Small school district, about 250 in the high school, but still a top 100 district in PA.
• 3.5-3.7 GPA
• Class president
• Member of marching band (clarinet), wants to try out for blue band. Already knows PSU fight songs.
• Also plays basketball for HS
• SAT below expected at 1060
• Has other volunteer experience for years
• Looking at health care career (PA, psychiatry, pharmacy among considerations)
• Her uncle is wbcincy (joking, but my family has been going to PSU for 100+ years now, didn't know if legacy means anything)

I told them I'd be shocked if she didn't get in, but I guess I don't really know much about what it takes. Thoughts?

 

[joeparules]

My niece's #1 choice is PSU, so long as she gets into University Park. My concern is she visited Pitt last week as a potential back up option...

I felt there was zero doubt she gets in, but wondered if any folks here with better insights agreed. Here are her relevant stats/info:

• PA resident
• Small school district, about 250 in the high school, but still a top 100 district in PA.
• 3.5-3.7 GPA
• Class president
• Member of marching band (clarinet), wants to try out for blue band. Already knows PSU fight songs.
• Also plays basketball for HS
• SAT below expected at 1060
• Has other volunteer experience for years
• Looking at health care career (PA, psychiatry, pharmacy among considerations)
• Her uncle is wbcincy (joking, but my family has been going to PSU for 100+ years now, didn't know if legacy means anything)

I told them I'd be shocked if she didn't get in, but I guess I don't really know much about what it takes. Thoughts?

• PA resident (unfortunately this has become a detriment with almost half accepted to main being out-of-state)
• Small school district, about 250 in the high school, but still a top 100 district in PA. (what is her class rank?)
• 3.5-3.7 GPA (good, not great)
• Class president, Member of marching band (clarinet), wants to try out for blue band. Already knows PSU fight songs, Also plays basketball for HS, Has other volunteer experience for years (extra-curriculars are nice, but very little impact)
• SAT below expected at 1060 (this will be the biggest prevention ... and another poster mentioned "superscoring" which they do NOT do at PSU)
• Looking at health care career (applying as DUS helps over the competitive majors such as IST and Nursing)
• My family has been going to PSU for 100+ years now, didn't know if legacy means anything (didn't help either of my daughters that they were third generation Penn Staters)

I hate to be blunt and hope I'm wrong, but I see no chance at getting into UP with that SAT score. My one daughter was around 3.2 and 1250 SATs and the other was 3.8 and 1100 SATs and both started at Altoona (which they both loved). The biggest factor after SAT score is probably race to be honest. My younger daughter had a HS friend with similar numbers and fewer extra-curriculars that got into main campus with the only real difference being she is half-Chinese.

Best of luck and again I hope I am wrong.

 

[Agoodnap]

A lot of talk about transferring majors in this thread so here's some information for those with students applying to UP. Other rules may and do apply at branch campuses.

Some majors like Nursing and Computer Science only admit students as True Freshmen. Their may be more majors as well.

Smeal (Business) is very specific on entrance requirements. Students are only Admitted after Sophomore year but before Junior year. You must get "accepted" into your major at this time as you don't "really" get accepted out of high school. Incoming Freshmen in Smeal merely have an advisor out of Smeal and won't be accepted into their major until they meet the entrance requirements. Essentially the advisor is the only benefit they have as a result of listing Smeal on their PSU application. They may, and this is entirely speculation, get scheduling priority on a couple classes they'll need before Junior year...but I wouldn't worry about that.

Only students transferring from DUS are allowed to transfer into Smeal, and students must have been in their academic department for one complete semester before they are allowed to transfer into Smeal. So, and this is important, students must be in DUS by first semester Sophomore year in order to meet the "must be in previous at least one semester prior to transfer into Smeal.

So, in summary, in order to transfer into Smeal you must transfer from DUS and you must be in DUS by first semester Sophomore year or Smeal is out. Students transferring from DUS must do this no later then the start of second semester Sophomore year.

If they have any inclination of being in Smeal and their grades are suspect they should start in DUS and make sure they know the rest of the requirements for entrance (which classes are required and the associated GPA for their intended major).

As always for all starting college students: Take as may of the pre-requisites as they can as early as they can take them as opposed to taking a bunch of gen eds that are easily scheduled any semester they want to take them. Knocking off the prereqs will make their life much easier as they advance and imo is the single best way to ensure graduating in four years. In other words this strategy allows for a few bumps down the road without costing semesters.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

• PA resident (unfortunately this has become a detriment with almost half accepted to main being out-of-state)
• Small school district, about 250 in the high school, but still a top 100 district in PA. (what is her class rank?)
• 3.5-3.7 GPA (good, not great)
• Class president, Member of marching band (clarinet), wants to try out for blue band. Already knows PSU fight songs, Also plays basketball for HS, Has other volunteer experience for years (extra-curriculars are nice, but very little impact)
• SAT below expected at 1060 (this will be the biggest prevention ... and another poster mentioned "superscoring" which they do NOT do at PSU)
• Looking at health care career (applying as DUS helps over the competitive majors such as IST and Nursing)
• My family has been going to PSU for 100+ years now, didn't know if legacy means anything (didn't help either of my daughters that they were third generation Penn Staters)

I hate to be blunt and hope I'm wrong, but I see no chance at getting into UP with that SAT score. My one daughter was around 3.2 and 1250 SATs and the other was 3.8 and 1100 SATs and both started at Altoona (which they both loved). The biggest factor after SAT score is probably race to be honest. My younger daughter had a HS friend with similar numbers and fewer extra-curriculars that got into main campus with the only real difference being she is half-Chinese.

Best of luck and again I hope I am wrong.

You are very wrong about the SAT

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

A lot of talk about transferring majors in this thread so here's some information those with students applying to UP. Other rules may and do apply at branch campuses.

Some majors like Nursing and Computer Science only admit students as True Freshmen. Their may be more majors as well.

Smeal (Business) is very specific on entrance requirements. Students are only Admitted after Sophomore year but before Junior year. You must get "accepted" into your major at this time as you don't "really" get accepted out of high school. Incoming Freshemn in Smeal merely have an advisor out of Smeal and won't be accepted into their major until they meet the entrance requirements. Essentially the advisor is the only benefit they have as a result of listing Smeal on their PSU application. They may, and this is entirely speculation, get scheduling priority on a couple classes they'll need before Junior year...but I wouldn't worry about that.

Only students transferring from DUS are allowed to transfer into Smeal, and students must have been in their academic department for one complete semester. So, and this is important, students must be in DUS by first semester Sophomore year in order to meet the "must be in previous at least one semester prior to transfer into Smeal.

So, in summary, in order to transfer into Smeal you must transfer from DUS and you must be in DUS by first semester Sophomore year or Smeal is out. Students transferring from DUS must do this no later then the start of second semester Sophomore year.

If they have any inclination of being in Smeal and their grades are suspect they should start in DUS and make sure they know the rest of the requirements for entrance (which classes are required and the associated GPA for their intended major).

As always for all starting college students: Take as may of the pre-requisites as they can as early as they can take them as opposed to taking a bunch of gen eds that are easily scheduled any semester they want to take them. Knocking off the prereqs will make their life much easier as they advance and imo is the single best way to ensure graduating in four years. In other words this strategy allows for a few bumps down the road without costing semesters.

This is a great post and accurate

 

[Lion Son/Husband/Father]

This is a great post and accurate

Pretty sure son 2 did this NOT LIB ARTS

 

[Richmond_Nittany]

My niece's #1 choice is PSU, so long as she gets into University Park. My concern is she visited Pitt last week as a potential back up option...

I felt there was zero doubt she gets in, but wondered if any folks here with better insights agreed. Here are her relevant stats/info:

• PA resident
• Small school district, about 250 in the high school, but still a top 100 district in PA.
• 3.5-3.7 GPA
• Class president
• Member of marching band (clarinet), wants to try out for blue band. Already knows PSU fight songs.
• Also plays basketball for HS
• SAT below expected at 1060
• Has other volunteer experience for years
• Looking at health care career (PA, psychiatry, pharmacy among considerations)
• Her uncle is wbcincy (joking, but my family has been going to PSU for 100+ years now, didn't know if legacy means anything)

I told them I'd be shocked if she didn't get in, but I guess I don't really know much about what it takes. Thoughts?

Just a thought. Our daughter was told if she applied for summer school, her chances of being accepted to University Park were greatly enhanced. She graduated from a VERY small Christian school (9 in her graduating class). Applied for summer school. Then spent 4 years in State College! Graduated in 2004.

 

[Lion Son/Husband/Father]

Just a thought. Our daughter was told if she applied for summer school, her chances of being accepted to University Park were greatly enhanced. She graduated from a VERY small Christian school (9 in her graduating class). Applied for summer school. Then spent 4 years in State College! Graduated in 2004.

That's how the Rick me got in!

 

[bison13]

Just a thought. Our daughter was told if she applied for summer school, her chances of being accepted to University Park were greatly enhanced. She graduated from a VERY small Christian school (9 in her graduating class). Applied for summer school. Then spent 4 years in State College! Graduated in 2004.

For the kids who choose to start in the summer what is their academic requirement for that term? Back when I was there and they had eight weeks sessions 6 weeks sessions and a four-week intercession. Would they have to be in the eight week and take two classes?

 

[yeahtoasty]

Son was accepted to U.P. for the fall semester as a L Arch major. I think his SATs were in the 1320 range and GPA around 3.8. Those numbers also got him accepted at Maryland and Michigan State. (What can I say, the kid likes those big schools, mainly because he wants a big marching band.)

Edit: I went with him to both MSU and Maryland and loved both campuses, especially Michigan State. I love PSU and am thrilled that he chose it but would've been perfectly happy had he gone to either of those schools.

 

[Sproul]

This issue has come up before. For example State High sends 100's of kids to PSU each year. Would it make sense to restrict local kids from attending the local university? Especially when many of the kids parents work for PSU.

Pretty sure I got accepted whilst I was a junior in high school. Parents were pretty high up. Couldn’t believe it was hard to get in for other kids, judging by the dumbasses who I graduated high school with that I saw on campus.

 

[manatree]

Son was accepted to U.P. for the fall semester as a L Arch major. I think his SATs were in the 1320 range and GPA around 3.8. Those numbers also got him accepted at Maryland and Michigan State. (What can I say, the kid likes those big schools, mainly because he wants a big marching band.)

Edit: I went with him to both MSU and Maryland and loved both campuses, especially Michigan State. I love PSU and am thrilled that he chose it but would've been perfectly happy had he gone to either of those schools.

Penn State’s LArch program is top notch and has a good mix of profs with various backgrounds that can help your son explore different careers before graduates.

Also, have him look into getting a minor. They’re fairly easy to get if you plan ahead from day one. With a five year program, fitting one should be easy.

https://bulletins.psu.edu/programs/#filter=.filter_24&.filter_87

 

[yeahtoasty]

Penn State’s LArch program is top notch and has a good mix of profs with various backgrounds that can help your son explore different careers before graduates.

Also, have him look into getting a minor. They’re fairly easy to get if you plan ahead from day one. With a five year program, fitting one should be easy.

https://bulletins.psu.edu/programs/#filter=.filter_24&.filter_87

Thanks! He's very excited to get started.

He had originally wanted to be a music major before deciding on L Arch, so he is going to minor in music performance. I'm very happy about this, I love hearing him play.

He auditioned for and made the Blue Band, but we're still waiting to hear if he's going to be able to fit it into his schedule this year. Apparently in the past, first-year L Arch majors had mandatory studio time that conflicted with Blue Band rehearsals. Unless something has changed, he very likely won't be able to march this year.

 

[manatree]

Thanks! He's very excited to get started.

He had originally wanted to be a music major before deciding on L Arch, so he is going to minor in music performance. I'm very happy about this, I love hearing him play.

He auditioned for and made the Blue Band, but we're still waiting to hear if he's going to be able to fit it into his schedule this year. Apparently in the past, first-year L Arch majors had mandatory studio time that conflicted with Blue Band rehearsals. Unless something has changed, he very likely won't be able to march this year.

The time commitment for Arch & LArch studios is insane and makes extracurriculars very difficult. I started off as an Arch major and had classmates that changed majors in order to be a cheerleader and a wrestler. The wrestler, Tony Bobulinski, switched to Engineering, which is not an easier major, but less of a time commitment.

There are always freak exceptions. Jen Reimers was a LArch major and played volleyball for four years and basketball for two years as well. I have no idea when she slept. Eddie George was also a LArch major at OSU, although I don't think he finished his degree until after he retired from the NFL.

I eventually switched from Arch to Integrative Arts, but I worked in the Architecture & Landscape Architecture library for 20 years, both as a student and a full time employee and got to know some of the Arch & LArch staff fairly well.

 

[joeparules]

You are very wrong about the SAT

How so?

Requirements​

Penn State does not require the SAT writing section. Note that Penn State does not superscore SAT results; your highest composite SAT score will be considered.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

How so?

Requirements​

Penn State does not require the SAT writing section. Note that Penn State does not superscore SAT results; your highest composite SAT score will be considered. Penn State does not use SAT Subject test scores for admission.

Read through the thread—I’ve explained it already

 

[YogiMan71]

Is it true that sometimes strong in state candidates for main campus get rejected for out of state candidates willing to pay the higher tuition ?

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Is it true that sometimes strong in state candidates for main campus get rejected for out of state candidates willing to pay the higher tuition ?

yes this happens at every PSU like school in the country

 

[HartfordLlion]

My niece's #1 choice is PSU, so long as she gets into University Park. My concern is she visited Pitt last week as a potential back up option...

I felt there was zero doubt she gets in, but wondered if any folks here with better insights agreed. Here are her relevant stats/info:

• PA resident
• Small school district, about 250 in the high school, but still a top 100 district in PA.
• 3.5-3.7 GPA
• Class president
• Member of marching band (clarinet), wants to try out for blue band. Already knows PSU fight songs.
• Also plays basketball for HS
• SAT below expected at 1060
• Has other volunteer experience for years
• Looking at health care career (PA, psychiatry, pharmacy among considerations)
• Her uncle is wbcincy (joking, but my family has been going to PSU for 100+ years now, didn't know if legacy means anything)

I told them I'd be shocked if she didn't get in, but I guess I don't really know much about what it takes. Thoughts?

GPA and SAT is all that matters. All of that other stuff is fluff and for PSU admissions it isn't even considered. SAT could be a killer for her. Take the test again.

 

[Locolion]

Son 2 was just north of average, good grades, lots of sports excellence, all around solid kid, but got Altoona. We called the admission office, pleaded our case, they told us if he dropped business major and requested LArts, he’d get main. Apparently the college of business was full. He did that, was enrolled in finance end of fall, graduated cum laude and just got a giant promotion after 26 months on the job. IMO, psu‘s greatness is their on campus recruiting. 1&2 both left State gainfully employed, and that’s all that matters to me.
For reference, Indiana and Illinois also said yes. Wisconsin said no.

IMO, your son defines what it means to be a Penn Stater. He went out, worked his arse off and EARNED it, pre- and post-skool. I must state that my Penn St hires have been stellar, Leigh - stellar, Da O$U- meh, Michigan- the worst. Not onesy-twosy. A definite pattern. If you want a full breakdown one what skool’s have impressed in the workplace (not based on single experiences).

 

[Lion Son/Husband/Father]

IMO, your son defines what it means to be a Penn Stater. He went out, worked his arse off and EARNED it, pre- and post-skool. I must state that my Penn St hires have been stellar, Leigh - stellar, Da O$U- meh, Michigan- the worst. Not onesy-twosy. A definite pattern. If you want a full breakdown one what skool’s have impressed in the workplace (not based on single experiences).

Thank you for sharing your professional view on psu kids. 2 is not the genius son 1 is but somehow they both have a strong work ethic. A leader in the program he’s joining told him this is a life changing promotion. We’re super proud (like any parent)

 

[BW Lion]

An interesting article by Jonathan Turley regarding the emerging trend of “blind/random admission” policies. Do you feel lucky?

“Just Blind Chance”: The Rising Call For “Random Selection” For College Admissions

Random selection is not generally an approach that most people opt for in the selection of doctors or even restaurants or a movie. However, it appears to be the new model for some in higher educati…

jonathanturley.org

 

[kgilbert78]

An interesting article by Jonathan Turley regarding the emerging trend of “blind/random admission” policies. Do you feel lucky?

“Just Blind Chance”: The Rising Call For “Random Selection” For College Admissions

Random selection is not generally an approach that most people opt for in the selection of doctors or even restaurants or a movie. However, it appears to be the new model for some in higher educati…

jonathanturley.org

It fits the "equal outcome" model.