OT: Not a Cubs or Bucs fan, but from my POV Arietta deserved ejection

[simons96]

I'm a Yankees fan, so obviously I am already disappointed with the off season.

But after watching the Cubs/Pirates game last night . . . my opinion is Arietta is a d-bag who deserved to get ejected in the 7th inning.

With the Cubs up 4-0, Arietta hit Cervelli with the 2nd pitch of the 5th inning. fine, I get it. He's owning the plate. Then he hits Harrison in the 6th inning. You have to expect some retaliation at that point. Unwritten rules of the game.

Watson comes out in the 7th and hits Arietta in the hip/butt. it's baseball. you're up 4-0 and owning the game. take your base Arietta with some class and shrug it off. Show the Bucs you're not faxed.

Classless move by Arietta, knowing full well his teammates would have his back. even the ump was trying to shove him to first base. AND he was still holding his bat. deserved to be ejected IMHO.

Now I am rooting for the Cubs to continue their World Series futility. rooting for a Cards sweep . . .

 

[mn78psu83]

I'm a Yankees fan, so obviously I am already disappointed with the off season.

But after watching the Cubs/Pirates game last night . . . my opinion is Arietta is a d-bag who deserved to get ejected in the 7th inning.

With the Cubs up 4-0, Arietta hit Cervelli with the 2nd pitch of the 5th inning. fine, I get it. He's owning the plate. Then he hits Harrison in the 6th inning. You have to expect some retaliation at that point. Unwritten rules of the game.

Watson comes out in the 7th and hits Arietta in the hip/butt. it's baseball. you're up 4-0 and owning the game. take your base Arietta with some class and shrug it off. Show the Bucs you're not faxed.

Classless move by Arietta, knowing full well his teammates would have his back. even the ump was trying to shove him to first base. AND he was still holding his bat. deserved to be ejected IMHO.

Now I am rooting for the Cubs to continue their World Series futility. rooting for a Cards sweep . . .

Nicely analyzed and I agree. He was a fool.

 

[Mister Magoo]

A fool yes. Tossed for getting HBP and standing there? Keep the refs and umps out of control. Can't toss him for that.

 

[CDLionFL]

Definitely shouldn't have been tossed. He didn't charge the mound. But he did show zero class just standing there and staring out at Watson. Since I'm a bad lip-reader, I'd have loved to know what Watson was saying to him before both teams came rushing in. I liked what Rodriguez did since he was already out of the game - just go after somebody and get that frustration out. He should have gone after Arrieta. However, that HBP on Arrieta doesn't happen if the Bucs even get 1 run in with the bases loaded in the previous half inning.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Watson comes out in the 7th and hits Arietta in the hip/butt. it's baseball. you're up 4-0 and owning the game. take your base Arietta with some class and shrug it off. Show the Bucs you're not faxed.

Classless move by Arietta, knowing full well his teammates would have his back. even the ump was trying to shove him to first base. AND he was still holding his bat. deserved to be ejected IMHO.

Tossed? Not following your logic on this one, simons.

If you isolate on just the incident, then there's absolutely no reason to toss a player who, after getting hit by a pitch that was pretty obviously thrown at the player, stands at the plate and has words with the pitcher. There's simply no cause for Arietta, or any other player, to be tossed in that situation.

Even if you expand it to look at the ongoing saga, I'm not sure you find any grounds for being tossed. The Arietta pitch that hit the hands of the Pirate batter was a non-issue. The other pitch seemed to get away from Arietta, and as such did not seem to be thrown at the Pirate batter. If the home plate ump felt that either of the pitches were intentional, then he could have warned Arietta, but that's about it.

I felt the incident, and the entire saga, were handled appropriately by the home plate umpire, and the entire crew.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Probably the biggest reason why I can't stand the DH - if you're gonna throw at someone to own the plate, you damn well better be able to take a shot to the buttox/elbow/thigh yourself. If you're gonna be a hard-ass on the mound, you can't be such a bitch when it's your turn to get plunked at the plate.

 

[psu7113]

I'm a Yankees fan, so obviously I am already disappointed with the off season.

But after watching the Cubs/Pirates game last night . . . my opinion is Arietta is a d-bag who deserved to get ejected in the 7th inning.

With the Cubs up 4-0, Arietta hit Cervelli with the 2nd pitch of the 5th inning. fine, I get it. He's owning the plate. Then he hits Harrison in the 6th inning. You have to expect some retaliation at that point. Unwritten rules of the game.

Watson comes out in the 7th and hits Arietta in the hip/butt. it's baseball. you're up 4-0 and owning the game. take your base Arietta with some class and shrug it off. Show the Bucs you're not faxed.

Classless move by Arietta, knowing full well his teammates would have his back. even the ump was trying to shove him to first base. AND he was still holding his bat. deserved to be ejected IMHO.

Now I am rooting for the Cubs to continue their World Series futility. rooting for a Cards sweep . . .

He was very classy in his post game interview. If the roles were reversed, you would probably be applauding a Pirate's pitcher for reacting exactly as Arrieta did.

 

[LeatherHelmets]

The holding onto the bat is what I think upset everyone the most. Drop the bat and be a man if you're going to challenge the pitcher in that situation. I think that is what set off Serpico.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

The whole incident was precipitated by twitter. If not for that idiocy the fans aren't as keyed up to hate on Arrieta, Arrieta doesn't have his macho to protect, the game is played and life goes on.

 

[bjf1984]

I'm a Yankees fan, so obviously I am already disappointed with the off season.

But after watching the Cubs/Pirates game last night . . . my opinion is Arietta is a d-bag who deserved to get ejected in the 7th inning.

With the Cubs up 4-0, Arietta hit Cervelli with the 2nd pitch of the 5th inning. fine, I get it. He's owning the plate. Then he hits Harrison in the 6th inning. You have to expect some retaliation at that point. Unwritten rules of the game.

Watson comes out in the 7th and hits Arietta in the hip/butt. it's baseball. you're up 4-0 and owning the game. take your base Arietta with some class and shrug it off. Show the Bucs you're not faxed.

Classless move by Arietta, knowing full well his teammates would have his back. even the ump was trying to shove him to first base. AND he was still holding his bat. deserved to be ejected IMHO.

Now I am rooting for the Cubs to continue their World Series futility. rooting for a Cards sweep . . .

When Arrieta fails his PED test sometime in the next few years.......will they "asterisk" his Cy Young?

 

[simons96]

The holding onto the bat is what I think upset everyone the most. Drop the bat and be a man if you're going to challenge the pitcher in that situation. I think that is what set off Serpico.

it was the holding of the bat, and the fact he plunked 2 Pirates.

 

[10 Years After]

I'm a Yankees fan, so obviously I am already disappointed with the off season.

But after watching the Cubs/Pirates game last night . . . my opinion is Arietta is a d-bag who deserved to get ejected in the 7th inning.

With the Cubs up 4-0, Arietta hit Cervelli with the 2nd pitch of the 5th inning. fine, I get it. He's owning the plate. Then he hits Harrison in the 6th inning. You have to expect some retaliation at that point. Unwritten rules of the game.

Watson comes out in the 7th and hits Arietta in the hip/butt. it's baseball. you're up 4-0 and owning the game. take your base Arietta with some class and shrug it off. Show the Bucs you're not faxed.

Classless move by Arietta, knowing full well his teammates would have his back. even the ump was trying to shove him to first base. AND he was still holding his bat. deserved to be ejected IMHO.

Now I am rooting for the Cubs to continue their World Series futility. rooting for a Cards sweep . . .

Not defending Arietta for his refusal to go to first or holding onto the bat. Don't know that much about him, but retaliating against Arietta at the point in the game seemed dumb to me.

I didn't see Cervelli get hit but I did see Harrison get hit. Arietta hit him with what looked to me to be a breaking pitch. Nobody beans a hitter purposefully with a breaking pitch. If its done, Its done with a fastball so there is more control and you hit what you are targeting. I can't say for sure that Watson's retaliation was out of line based on "baseball code" because I didn't see the first HBP, but based solely on Arietta's 2nd HBP of Harrison, hitting Arietta in retaliation was dumb on Watson's part.

It was also dumb since it was getting late in the game, the Bucs were down 4 runs, and although not one swing away, it was not an insurmountable lead (I've seen much larger leads lost in the last inning by top closers). If you've got to hit Arietta, wait until the first game of next season or spring training. Don't risk further ruining your already bad chance of advancing to the next round of the playoffs (unless of course the desire was to smack Arietta in the head and get him out of the game. But if that was the case, the ball wouldn't have been thrown around his midsection).

 

[bmw199]

When Arrieta fails his PED test sometime in the next few years.......will they "asterisk" his Cy Young?

Greinke was better all year. So, it should be a non factor...

 

[simons96]

Not defending Arietta for his refusal to go to first or holding onto the bat. Don't know that much about him, but retaliating against Arietta at the point in the game seemed dumb to me.

I didn't see Cervelli get hit but I did see Harrison get hit. Arietta hit him with what looked to me to be a breaking pitch. Nobody beans a hitter purposefully with a breaking pitch. If its done, Its done with a fastball so there is more control and you hit what you are targeting. I can't say for sure that Watson's retaliation was out of line based on "baseball code" because I didn't see the first HBP, but based solely on Arietta's 2nd HBP of Harrison, hitting Arietta in retaliation was dumb on Watson's part.

It was also dumb since it was getting late in the game, the Bucs were down 4 runs, and although not one swing away, it was not an insurmountable lead (I've seen much larger leads lost in the last inning by top closers). If you've got to hit Arietta, wait until the first game of next season or spring training. Don't risk further ruining your already bad chance of advancing to the next round of the playoffs (unless of course the desire was to smack Arietta in the head and get him out of the game. But if that was the case, the ball wouldn't have been thrown around his midsection).

how often do you see 2 players HBP in back to back innings? yeah, sometimes it is an accident. and yes, I have seen aggressive pitchers throw a "breaking pitch" that got away. might hit the batter, might not, but the purpose is to intimidate a guy in the batter's box.

in the broader context of the game, no it did not make sense. but if a pitcher beans 2 of your batters, you throw at him. and it was a fastball aimed at his hip, not some aggressive chin music. while I agree with some of your points, let's not be naive. Arietta sure as hell knew he was a target. take the shot to the ass like a man and walk to first. don't hold your bat like some meathead and cause a scene. that was just weak.

 

[lionlurker]

The guy was doing whatever he wanted with his pitches, except for the two that "got away"? Hell, no. Those plunks were intentional.

He won this round, but hopefully there will be more. I look forward to the day he is at bat with Cole on the mound, since Cole seems to carry a grudge and is quite happy to deliver a fastball way inside.

 

[mn78psu83]

Greinke was better all year. So, it should be a non factor...

Agree. It will be close though. Greinke was 19-3 with a 1.66 ERA and Arrieta was 22-6 with a 1.77 ERA. Kershaw probably isn't in the discussion this year at 21-12 with a 2.13 ERA. His 9 inning SO/W ratio is an outstanding 7.17 though.

 

[Obliviax]

Tossed? Not following your logic on this one, simons.

If you isolate on just the incident, then there's absolutely no reason to toss a player who, after getting hit by a pitch that was pretty obviously thrown at the player, stands at the plate and has words with the pitcher. There's simply no cause for Arietta, or any other player, to be tossed in that situation.

Even if you expand it to look at the ongoing saga, I'm not sure you find any grounds for being tossed. The Arietta pitch that hit the hands of the Pirate batter was a non-issue. The other pitch seemed to get away from Arietta, and as such did not seem to be thrown at the Pirate batter. If the home plate ump felt that either of the pitches were intentional, then he could have warned Arietta, but that's about it.

I felt the incident, and the entire saga, were handled appropriately by the home plate umpire, and the entire crew.

Hmmmmm. I think the umps should have warned both benches after the second hit. That way a hit batsmen is an auto ejection. Umps let it get out of control.

 

[CDLionFL]

Hmmmmm. I think the umps should have warned both benches after the second hit. That way a hit batsmen is an auto ejection. Umps let it get out of control.

Out of control? C'mon. Why in the hell would he hit Harrison with a runner already on base? That put 2 guys on with 1 out. If you're gonna hit a batter, you do it exactly the way Watson did it -- 2 out, nobody on. Umpires handled that pretty well, though if I had been the home plate umpire, I'd have jumped out there and yelled at Arrieta to get to 1st base and stop screwing around.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Ridiculous notion that he should have been tossed. He should have just gone on to first base, but pausing on the way is hardly reason to eject him. Harrison's HBP was a breaking ball. Cervilli's hit his fingertip.
Throwing intentionally at Arrieta was akin to giving up.

 

[redbyrds]

Probably the biggest reason why I can't stand the DH - if you're gonna throw at someone to own the plate, you damn well better be able to take a shot to the buttox/elbow/thigh yourself. If you're gonna be a hard-ass on the mound, you can't be such a bitch when it's your turn to get plunked at the plate.

And when will Tony Watson have to stand up at the plate??? NEVER. Relievers do not bat.

Cutch will get hit 1st game against the Cubs next season due to Watson making a point out of frustration. Makes sense huh??

 

[MrDibbs]

I don't think for a minute that Arietta intentionally threw at Harrison or Cervelli. Why would he, he was ahead 4 - 0 and the Pirates were not ever threatening that lead.

Yea, you can say that they had the bases loaded with one out (two times) and had they gotten a hit in both situations they could have tied the game, but realistically the Pirates were a beaten bunch after the top of the third with the big home run that cleared the stadium boundary.

I don't fault Watson - he probably plunked him without direction from the manager/coaches. I think that he's that kind of guy. I also feel that the fact that Arietta didn't just stroll down to first needs to be recognized. Why shouldn't he have some opportunity to say something.

Notice that the guy who leg-whipped Kang never saw the field or batters box. maybe he wasn't on the playoff roster for the wild card, but had he come up to the plate, he would have definitely not been digging in.

It really stinks to see this team get skunked two years in a row by a GREAT pitcher. They have nobody to blame but themselves and their manager.

 

[bjf1984]

Ridiculous notion that he should have been tossed. He should have just gone on to first base, but pausing on the way is hardly reason to eject him. Harrison's HBP was a breaking ball. Cervilli's hit his fingertip.
Throwing intentionally at Arrieta was akin to giving up.

I really don't think Arrieta was looking to plunk anyone......but who knows

I will say, if I could throw like Cole......I'd plunk Rizzo 1st AB of every game
Same with Wong of the Cardinals and Votto of the Reds.

All three of those guys hang out so far over the plate that when they take their "leg kick" they probably all have at least part of their body on the GD strike zone.

If they want to pull that crap and try to take away the outer third of the plate......I'd plunk them at least once every game until they back off.
A guy like Gibson (back in the day) would have nailed them every damn at bat....until they backed off....which wouldn't take long

I don't really like the "retaliation" plunks.....but if a guy is gonna' try to take advantage and hang out over the outer half of the plate, I think you gotta' let him know that you own the other side.

 

[10 Years After]

how often do you see 2 players HBP in back to back innings? yeah, sometimes it is an accident. and yes, I have seen aggressive pitchers throw a "breaking pitch" that got away. might hit the batter, might not, but the purpose is to intimidate a guy in the batter's box. This is significantly different than throwing at a batter, its controlling the plate. Over the decades pitching inside has been a root tenet of baseball, i.e. does the batter have the courage to stand within 6-24 inches of 90+ thrown baseball swing at it, and hit it. Many don't. Many bailout and this separates the wheat from the chaff. Of course today you have batters coming to the plate all armored up, and I'm not talking about batting helmets or Stanton-like facemasks, and getting bent out of shape over inside strikes (not that either pitch to Harrison or Cervelli was an inside strike) but I digress (a former pitcher myself). This is why there should be no DH. Everyone takes their turn at the plate (I digress further).

in the broader context of the game, no it did not make sense. Yes but if a pitcher beans 2 of your batters, you throw at him. No, not when you are down by 4 in an elimination game. You are giving up an almost definite out, putting a runner on base and bringing up the top of the order. You don't hit him then. If its warranted you wait until the time is right and when Watson did was not it. and it was a fastball aimed at his hip, not some aggressive chin music. Yes absolutely was aimed at Arietta's hip. while I agree with some of your points, let's not be naive. I'm not being naïve. Arietta sure as hell knew he was a target. Yes take the shot to the ass like a man and walk to first. don't hold your bat like some meathead and cause a scene. that was just weak Yes.

My point wasn't really about Arietta and whether he was a meathead after he got hit. My point was should he have been hit in the first place and I still say it was dumb, undisciplined baseball based on what I saw. If retaliation really was warranted, you pick your spot, and down 4 in an elimination game after the 2nd HBP was a thrown deuce sure is not smart baseball.

 

[wawasee]

Pittsburg hit him to try an throw him off his game. They had no chance otherwise. Arrieta took exception because it is a unwritten rule pitcher do not throw at each other. Pedro Martinez talked about that in the post game show.

 

[simons96]

My point wasn't really about Arietta and whether he was a meathead after he got hit. My point was should he have been hit in the first place and I still say it was dumb, undisciplined baseball based on what I saw. If retaliation really was warranted, you pick your spot, and down 4 in an elimination game after the 2nd HBP was a thrown deuce sure is not smart baseball.

well baseball players are better known for self-enforcing unwritten rules and traditions, than understanding the tactical importance of enforcing those rules.

with that said, Arietta had plunked 2 Pirates batters. Intentional or not, he knew going up to the plate that he was a target. Watson threw the first pitch at his hip/buttocks . . . generally a spot where a batter can absorb a beanball without significant injury. walk it off.

I honestly don't know why Arietta wasn't warned after the second HBP in 2 innings. I'll agree the umps were likely in "playoff baseball" mode. but allowing Arietta to grandstand, get the game out of control, AND carry his bat . . . that was just a recipe for disaster.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

He was struggling with his control all evening, he hardly "plunked" two batters. The first one you had to watch the replay 3-4 times to see that the pitch actually hit a finger.....not a hand, but one finger. The second hit batter obviously was an accident, no one hits a batter on purpose in the late innings of a close winner-take-all-or-your-season-is-over game.

IMHO, the Pitt pitcher should have been tossed as his pitch was a pretty obvious retaliation.

I thought it was very interesting the umpires from both the left and right field foul lines got to the skirmish before the second base umpire got there.....he came strolling in as slowly as anyone possibly could. MLB should fine his fat ass and send him home, he doesn't deserve to be there.

 

[blk902]

I'm a Yankees fan, so obviously I am already disappointed with the off season.

But after watching the Cubs/Pirates game last night . . . my opinion is Arietta is a d-bag who deserved to get ejected in the 7th inning.

With the Cubs up 4-0, Arietta hit Cervelli with the 2nd pitch of the 5th inning. fine, I get it. He's owning the plate. Then he hits Harrison in the 6th inning. You have to expect some retaliation at that point. Unwritten rules of the game.

Watson comes out in the 7th and hits Arietta in the hip/butt. it's baseball. you're up 4-0 and owning the game. take your base Arietta with some class and shrug it off. Show the Bucs you're not faxed.

Classless move by Arietta, knowing full well his teammates would have his back. even the ump was trying to shove him to first base. AND he was still holding his bat. deserved to be ejected IMHO.

Now I am rooting for the Cubs to continue their World Series futility. rooting for a Cards sweep . . .

 

[blk902]

Ditto

 

[Mister Magoo]

I love the macho Pittsburgh sports fan in here. Let's get Arrietta! I remember an incident a year and a half ago. Brooks Orpik makes a run, borderline legal hit on a Bruin just returning from a concussion. Loui Erikkson gets knocked out by the hit. Bruins player wanted to fight your rough and tumble defenseman. Orpik turtled like a wussy. Thornton gets 15 games for defending his teammate and beating the hell out of Orpik. Many of you same Pittsburgh sports fans wanted Thornton thrown out of the league. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

And when will Tony Watson have to stand up at the plate??? NEVER. Relievers do not bat.

Cutch will get hit 1st game against the Cubs next season due to Watson making a point out of frustration. Makes sense huh??

Bottom line it holds pitchers accountable....a part of the game that doesn't exist in the AL. Roger Clemens made a career out of getting his teammates plunked for his transgressions, and he didn't have to deal with the consequences until he got to Houston.

 

[lionlurker]

Sorry, I am not buying it. His control was impeccable. He didn't come close to hitting anybody else. So, he's impeccable on all but two pitches, in which cases he was way not-impeccable? Nope.

He's a smug asshole. He's come out of nowhere the last couple of years, somehow getting bigger and faster at age 29. I guess he learned about the famous Roger Clemens workout regimen.

 

[simons96]

I love the macho Pittsburgh sports fan in here. Let's get Arrietta! I remember an incident a year and a half ago. Brooks Orpik makes a run, borderline legal hit on a Bruin just returning from a concussion. Loui Erikkson gets knocked out by the hit. Bruins player wanted to fight your rough and tumble defenseman. Orpik turtled like a wussy. Thornton gets 15 games for defending his teammate and beating the hell out of Orpik. Many of you same Pittsburgh sports fans wanted Thornton thrown out of the league. Can't have it both ways.

I'm not a Pittsburgh fan

 

[TheGLOV]

I love the macho Pittsburgh sports fan in here. Let's get Arrietta! I remember an incident a year and a half ago. Brooks Orpik makes a run, borderline legal hit on a Bruin just returning from a concussion. Loui Erikkson gets knocked out by the hit. Bruins player wanted to fight your rough and tumble defenseman. Orpik turtled like a wussy. Thornton gets 15 games for defending his teammate and beating the hell out of Orpik. Many of you same Pittsburgh sports fans wanted Thornton thrown out of the league. Can't have it both ways.

Some people still have issues I see.

Ulf Samuelsson says: Hello!

Want's to know if Cam is available for a four-some tomorrow? Say around 8 am??

 

[lionlurker]

Neely got what he deserved, by the way.

 

[Parkland Fan]

Pittsburg hit him to try an throw him off his game. They had no chance otherwise. Arrieta took exception because it is a unwritten rule pitcher do not throw at each other. Pedro Martinez talked about that in the post game show.

This is the first poster that understands baseball. It's not hockey or beer muscles on a website. It was done to disrupt Arietta and was probably ordered by the manager.

 

[cavic]

I love the macho Pittsburgh sports fan in here. Let's get Arrietta! I remember an incident a year and a half ago. Brooks Orpik makes a run, borderline legal hit on a Bruin just returning from a concussion. Loui Erikkson gets knocked out by the hit. Bruins player wanted to fight your rough and tumble defenseman. Orpik turtled like a wussy. Thornton gets 15 games for defending his teammate and beating the hell out of Orpik. Many of you same Pittsburgh sports fans wanted Thornton thrown out of the league. Can't have it both ways.

Again, Magoo, you're out of mind on this one. If you insist on bringing it up, Thornton repeatedly punched a guy who was already out cold. Nice tough guy code there. Granted, I'd say he did his job honorably most of the time, and his was a really hard job. Still, it's foolish to defend him in that situation

Now, comparing that -- pounding the head of an unconscious man into ice -- versus a fast ball aimed at you ass? One leaves a bruise, the other easily ends careers, even lives. Get real, man

 

[Mister Magoo]

Again, Magoo, you're out of mind on this one. If you insist on bringing it up, Thornton repeatedly punched a guy who was already out cold. Nice tough guy code there. Granted, I'd say he did his job honorably most of the time, and his was a really hard job. Still, it's foolish to defend him in that situation

Now, comparing that -- pounding the head of an unconscious man into ice -- versus a fast ball aimed at you ass? One leaves a bruise, the other easily ends careers, even lives. Get real, man

You're forgetting the part where Thornton skaked up to Orpik face to face and challenged him.

 

[EPC FAN]

Tossed? Not following your logic on this one, simons.

If you isolate on just the incident, then there's absolutely no reason to toss a player who, after getting hit by a pitch that was pretty obviously thrown at the player, stands at the plate and has words with the pitcher. There's simply no cause for Arietta, or any other player, to be tossed in that situation.

Even if you expand it to look at the ongoing saga, I'm not sure you find any grounds for being tossed. The Arietta pitch that hit the hands of the Pirate batter was a non-issue. The other pitch seemed to get away from Arietta, and as such did not seem to be thrown at the Pirate batter. If the home plate ump felt that either of the pitches were intentional, then he could have warned Arietta, but that's about it.

I felt the incident, and the entire saga, were handled appropriately by the home plate umpire, and the entire crew.

Not to mention there was no way Arrieta wanted to hit a Pirate batter with a man on and a four run lead, especially with the middle of the Buc order coming up. As it was, it came close to costing him big time.

 

[cavic]

You're forgetting the part where Thornton skaked up to Orpik face to face and challenged him.

Don't forget it at all. If he suckered him there, so be it. Tagging a guy in the head when he's already prone on the ice & defendants-- that's the part I really remember

 

[cavic]

Don't forget it at all. If he suckered him there, so be it. Tagging a guy in the head when he's already prone on the ice & defendants-- that's the part I really remember

Didn't not don't and defenseless not defendants. Sorry
Ugh. I hate Autocorrect, and I really hate this "new" phone friendly site