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OT: No way Pirates finish ahead of the Cubs this season...

BBHorn86

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Dec 6, 2003
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It didn't take long for the Cubs to catch and pass the Pirates.

Third place coming.
 
It didn't take long for the Cubs to catch and pass the Pirates.

Third place coming.
Maybe so, but it's a bit early and let me remind you, they are not the Cards, or Reds....they are the Cubs. They will tank (I hope).
 
Maybe so, but it's a bit early and let me remind you, they are not the Cards, or Reds....they are the Cubs. They will tank (I hope).
I hope so as well but they are talented and hungry.

Sadly I don't think the Pirates can out-spend the Cards and the Cubs going forward. With Theo Epstein and Joe Madden just hard for me to see how the Bucs can stay in the hunt on a consistent basis.

At just about every position, save CF and LF the Cubs just simply have more talent.
 
I hope so as well but they are talented and hungry.

Sadly I don't think the Pirates can out-spend the Cards and the Cubs going forward. With Theo Epstein and Joe Madden just hard for me to see how the Bucs can stay in the hunt on a consistent basis.

At just about every position, save CF and LF the Cubs just simply have more talent.
Well, if you are right, and if the Bucs can't win the Division, I wouldn't mind the Cubs. Their fans fans deserve it.
 
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Well, if you are right, and if the Bucs can't win the Division, I wouldn't mind the Cubs. Their fans fans deserve it.
Have you ever been around traveling Cubs fans? They are the worst. From where their arrogance comes, I'll never know.
 
Have you ever been around traveling Cubs fans? They are the worst. From where their arrogance comes, I'll never know.

I've never met a Cub fan in my life. I just figured any fan base that hasn't won a World Series in over 100 years deserves one.
 
I hope so as well but they are talented and hungry.

Sadly I don't think the Pirates can out-spend the Cards and the Cubs going forward. With Theo Epstein and Joe Madden just hard for me to see how the Bucs can stay in the hunt on a consistent basis.

At just about every position, save CF and LF the Cubs just simply have more talent.
Just about every position? I would add 2B and pitching staff to CF & LF.
 
Where are our hitters ? Batting averages in the low 200s or lower. Look at the Cubs batting averages.
Couple that with the mediocrity of Leake & Worley and its a recipe for consecutive losses.
These Cubs seem to be very solid and I don't feel the Pirates are at this point.
 
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I hope the Cubs tank. I watched them all my life and hate how the owners or whoever are abandoning their roots. The changes they are making to the stadium makes me sick.
 
Cubs will fade but will show much promise for the future.

Pirates should (IMO) win the division but got to watch out for those Cardinals. They handle baseball adversity better than any team in the majors!!
If they can win the Division without Wainwright, I will tip my hat. I just don't see it happening.
 
The Pirates have managed a 12-10 record with silent bats. IF the bats heat up, and IF Taillon is ready by summer and called up, who knows.
 
The Pirates have managed a 12-10 record with silent bats. IF the bats heat up, and IF Taillon is ready by summer and called up, who knows.
True that CF.

In many ways, hard to believe they are above break even with the group of Harrison, McCutcheon, Mercer, and Alvarez probably hitting a combined .200. And its not like the other guys (Cervelli, Walker, Marte, and Polanco are balancing that out by hitting .350). You gotta' figure that lineup is going to be at least "league average" by the end of the year.

Last year, the offense was 4th in the NL in runs scored (and 3rd in HR and OPS). Marte and Polanco should be guys who's careers are on the upswing. They got nuttin' from Alvarez last year, so nowhere to go but up for 2015....and none of the lineup guys are at an age where you would expect regression. Losing Martin hurt, but with other young guys on the upswing, and an improved bench, this should be a good productive lineup.

Add in the possibilities for improving the back end of the rotation......Morton just starting his rehab, Sampson/Kingham/Sadler all pitching well in AAA and available if Locke or Worley struggle, Taillon probably in the mix at Indy by later this month......This is the year baby!!!!!

Ya' Gotta' believe (apologies to Tug McGraw)
 
If the Pirates win at the same rate as through April, they finish 88-74 which would be pretty good ....

Would it be good enough?

What's amazing to me is that they are 2 over .500 without their hitters coming through and without their bullpen performing very well. I think that when the weather heats up, the Pirates will be fine.

Now the Cubs ... what I've seen so far is very positive. Can they keep it up or improve on their current position? Time will tell.
 
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If the Pirates win at the same rate as through April, they finish 88-74 which would be pretty good ....

Would it be good enough?

What's amazing to me is that they are 2 over .500 without their hitters coming through and without their bullpen performing very well. I think that when the weather heats up, the Pirates will be fine.

Now the Cubs ... what I've seen so far is very positive. Can they keep it up or improve on their current position? Time will tell.
The Cubs are close, but still a year or so away in my opinion.
 
Cubs are a solid young team, but they're too young this year, they'll falter down the stretch, much like the young Bucs teams of 2011 & 2012. They are definitely scary looking towards the future.

As for where the Pirates are better, you're selling them way short. First of all, "better" at a position isn't always equal. The Pirates aren't just better at CF and LF, they're light years ahead of Coghlan and Fowler.

And I'd say the Pirates are better at CF, LF, 2B, bullpen, starting pitching (and even moreso w/I the next 2 years once Kingham, Taillon and Glasnow arrive), and equal at RF and C. Polanco has been every bit the prospect of Soler, and their numbers this year are very similar thus far. At C, the Cubs have a 31 year old who has been very average the past 2 years, and it's rare that trend shifts back at this age (except for Martin playing out of his mind in a contract year, glad the Bucs didn't pay for that).

So that leaves the Cubs better at 1B, 3B and SS. Sounds like the Bucs are clearly the better team. And it took the Cubs bringing up their top 3 prospects to even be in the conversation with the Bucs. If you reevaluated farm systems now that the Cubs called them up, the Pirates would be ahead of them. So I think the Bucs are the better team today, and have the stronger farm system. Yes, the Cubs will outspend them going forward, but this Bucs team is built to last.
 
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Cubs are a solid young team, but they're too young this year, they'll falter down the stretch, much like the young Bucs teams of 2011 & 2012. They are definitely scary looking towards the future.

As for where the Pirates are better, you're selling them way short. First of all, "better" at a position isn't always equal. The Pirates aren't just better at CF and LF, they're light years ahead of Coghlan and Fowler.

And I'd say the Pirates are better at CF, LF, 2B, bullpen, starting pitching (and even moreso w/I the next 2 years once Kingham, Taillon and Glasnow arrive), and equal at RF and C. Polanco has been every bit the prospect of Soler, and their numbers this year are very similar thus far. At C, the Cubs have a 31 year old who has been very average the past 2 years, and it's rare that trend shifts back at this age (except for Martin playing out of his mind in a contract year, glad the Bucs didn't pay for that).

So that leaves the Cubs better at 1B, 3B and SS. Sounds like the Bucs are clearly the better team. And it took the Cubs bringing up their top 3 prospects to even be in the conversation with the Bucs. If you reevaluated farm systems now that the Cubs called them up, the Pirates would be ahead of them. So I think the Bucs are the better team today, and have the stronger farm system. Yes, the Cubs will outspend them going forward, but this Bucs team is built to last.

Your analysis is quite impressive. As I lifelong Pirate fan I hope you are right BUT...

Pirates are already 3-7 against the Reds, Cards and Cubs. They are 1-9 in their last 10 games in St. Louis including 6 that's right 6 walk-off defeats. Say what you want you are entitled to your opinion as am I... The Pirates ceiling is third place in this division and possibly the second wildcard spot. No way they win this division.
 
Right now this is one of the most putrid lineups in Major League Baseball. And the best player by far is playing on one leg. Just a matter of time till he breaks down and then you can turn out the lights. McCutcheon looks to me like he needs surgery.

I know it's the first week of May - doesn't matter. I'm predicting a losing record and you can forget about the playoffs.

When the Pirates did nothing to fortify the lineup, you knew in March they were toast.
 
Right now this is one of the most putrid lineups in Major League Baseball. And the best player by far is playing on one leg. Just a matter of time till he breaks down and then you can turn out the lights. McCutcheon looks to me like he needs surgery.

I know it's the first week of May - doesn't matter. I'm predicting a losing record and you can forget about the playoffs.

When the Pirates did nothing to fortify the lineup, you knew in March they were toast.

I'm not sure what they could've done to fortify the lineup. They were a top 5 offense in the national league last year, returned everyone of consequence except Martin (and signed an adequate C to replace him), and should've improved (with Polanco getting a full year to be what he could). Yeah, maybe they could've done more at 1B, but at the expense of quitting on Alvarez 1 year removed from winning the HR crown? I think the lineup was fine, nothing really needed done, the only problem is that guys are playing waaaaay below their talent level, and there was no way to predict that in March.
 
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I'm not sure what they could've done to fortify the lineup. They were a top 5 offense in the national league last year, returned everyone of consequence except Martin (and signed an adequate C to replace him), and should've improved (with Polanco getting a full year to be what he could). Yeah, maybe they could've done more at 1B, but at the expense of quitting on Alvarez 1 year removed from winning the HR crown? I think the lineup was fine, nothing really needed done, the only problem is that guys are playing waaaaay below their talent level, and there was no way to predict that in March.
Yes they are, and it's so damn frustrating.
 
The last time the Cardinals didn't have Wainwright for the entire season, they won the World Series.
Well, as I said, if they can win the Division without him I will tip my cap. One thing I am very confident of is that the Cards will not continue to play .750 baseball, and the Pirates will not stay under .500, so the race will tighten. As wbcincy said, the Bucs are playing way below their talent level. I expect that to change, but only time will tell.
 
I'm not sure what they could've done to fortify the lineup. They were a top 5 offense in the national league last year, returned everyone of consequence except Martin (and signed an adequate C to replace him), and should've improved (with Polanco getting a full year to be what he could). Yeah, maybe they could've done more at 1B, but at the expense of quitting on Alvarez 1 year removed from winning the HR crown? I think the lineup was fine, nothing really needed done, the only problem is that guys are playing waaaaay below their talent level, and there was no way to predict that in March.

Ah logic. I like it!
 
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