You want to talk about "risk" - how about trying to walk out of my seats to go to the bathroom or get some food. On more than one occasion, I have almost hyperextended a knee trying to not fall as the aisle is so damned narrow. I have seen many people tip over and fall on those in front of them. I have complained to the Athletic Dept with the usual response, pay a little more and get a seat on the walkway. That's a bigger risk than exploring a cave!
OT: More PSU insanity -- Outing Club no longer allowed to go on Outings
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Well, golly gee. If every activity at PSU is a hazard, better get rid of the Blue Band also. You know what kind of injuries one can suffer from wrong usage of a flute, or worse, a mis-used tuba????
There was this one time, at band camp...
I don't give out too many tidbits about myself. As for the WV rivers, I had some of the best times of my life on them. I kayaked pretty much every single one of them, most of them so many times that I knew them like the back of my hand.
Charlie did study every whitewater fatality that involved a kayak, a C1 (a modified canoe that was like a kayak) or a whitewater open canoe. I don't recall if he investigated fatalities that involved open canoes in non-whitewater situations, or if he investigated raft fatalities. The reports were printed in the American Canoe Association's publication, and American Whitewater's publication. Whitewater clubs across the country would frequently copy his reports, and reprint them in their local newsletters. I'm not sure if the reports are available online. I do recall that they were compiled and printed as books covering some interval (I think it was 2 years), and that those anthologies are available on Amazon.
Welp, this isn't much of a leap when driving home for a canning weekend was deemed too dangerous. I get it, accidents happen, people crank up the outrage machine. People make bad decisions; punishing the rest of society for them is ridiculous. This country as a whole is cruising for a bruising.
The take on them pushing the club members toward a paid University group also makes sense. Nothing is stopping these kids from meeting downtown and exercising their freedom of assembly and still participating in these activities. With social media today its not like the University can actually censor them. I hope they continue to exist even without the Universities blessing.
PSU Outing Club isn't allowed to go outside....
"After a two-month review that did not include consultation with student Outing Club leaders, the university’s offices of Student Affairs and Risk Management, made the determination that the hiking, canoeing, kayaking, trail building and camping activities the student-led club has long engaged in are too risky. The club is one of the oldest entirely student run organizations at Penn State."
"According to an announcement posted by the club on its Webpage last week, the university will not allow the club to organize and run outdoor, student-led trips starting next semester."
Did the PSU Office of Risk Management ever review the risks associated with the current structure of the PSU BOT? Hard to imagine a group lead by Damby and Co. (and predecessors) is less risky than hiking!
Meanwhile, the 100+ year-old youth-lead, adult-guided Boy Scouts of America provides young adults with experiential learning, leadership-developing opportunities, in local communities as well as High-Adventure bases in New Mexico (Philmont), Florida (Sea Base), Minnesota (Ely), and West Virginia (The Summit).
Adoption by PSU of "A Guide to Safe Scouting" for directives in conducting outdoor activities is the simple solution.
"After a two-month review that did not include consultation with student Outing Club leaders, the university’s offices of Student Affairs and Risk Management, made the determination that the hiking, canoeing, kayaking, trail building and camping activities the student-led club has long engaged in are too risky. The club is one of the oldest entirely student run organizations at Penn State."
"According to an announcement posted by the club on its Webpage last week, the university will not allow the club to organize and run outdoor, student-led trips starting next semester."
Did the PSU Office of Risk Management ever review the risks associated with the current structure of the PSU BOT? Hard to imagine a group lead by Damby and Co. (and predecessors) is less risky than hiking!
Meanwhile, the 100+ year-old youth-lead, adult-guided Boy Scouts of America provides young adults with experiential learning, leadership-developing opportunities, in local communities as well as High-Adventure bases in New Mexico (Philmont), Florida (Sea Base), Minnesota (Ely), and West Virginia (The Summit).
Adoption by PSU of "A Guide to Safe Scouting" for directives in conducting outdoor activities is the simple solution.
The BOT is the same org that allowed us to buy liability insurance with an exclusion for sexual abuse, for many years. Not only did this mean Sandusky was not covered a bunch of the time he was at PSU, it also means that every grad assistant or prof who slept with women to turn their Cs into Bs was also exposing the University to liability for which it was not insured.
Part of it may be a money grab. PSU wants to put the Outing Club (and these other student clubs) out of business because it competes with PSU's own more expensive "outdoor adventure" program.
Cool. I had no idea. You should come out and run some of the western rivers some day.
Found an online report log. https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Accident/detail/accidentid/1171/
tempting ... very tempting. I did pretty much every single whitewater river of note in the NE and mid-Atlantic regions. I got to most of the better rivers in the SE, but a missed a few of them that were on my bucket list due to their not running (at levels that were interesting) when I was in the area, or my paddling companions opting for a different river.
I was hoping to get to the western rivers, but fatherhood and career kind of got in the way. The only western river I ever kayaked was the Colorado -- I did the entire Grand Canyon.
At this point, it would probably take me a year or so to get back into peak paddling shape, and I've filled in that free time with other activities, so I don't see it happening.
Next, Damby and Co. build new equipment storage facilities at 5 times the current cost of construction....
Does PSU still use PMA for its insurance? Did PMA jack up its rates and now PSU is cutting costs at the club's expense?
Read about the smoking ban. Ridiculous. Guess Russ Rose will have to stop having his cigar after lunch on the bench in front of Recreation Hall. Hell, they put a plaque on the bench designating the bench to Russ. Guess that we have no more NCAA championships in WVB because Russ did a lot of his game planning on the bench.
What's next? Ban archery, riflery, fencing, diving, horseback jumping, wrestling, and heaven to mergatroid - FOOTBALL!
Well it just depends if they now have special lawyers for this as all. Being a business owner I fell like a hostage in my own building sometimes. Afraid to dare correct someone. It’s a new world we live in. Someone completely being 100% in the wrong. And yet still getting millions is the new American way.
The trombone-tuba mesh during the field reversal on the flying SNOIT has been know to cause severe injuries.
I suppose members of the Outing Club can still go hiking; the university just won't pay for it.
I survived Yosemite last October at 59. You’re still good!I’ve got a trip planned to Yosemite in 3 weeks and I’m 50 - way past college age and, thus, more frail.
I should just cancel my trip now - way too risky
Can’t wait. I’ve been poring over the Park’s Daily Report and weather reports hoping that they’ll have Glacier Point road open by May 13-14. Coincidentally, that’s the historical opening date for the road. Otherwise, I’ve heard the 4 mile trail up to the Point is a whore and having to hike up there complicates my other plans nearby.
I work with a guy who worked on the trail and avalanche control teams at Yosemite after college. He has great intel on what to do and not do. Even when he was in his early 20s and used to humping a lot of gear, he said he hated the 4 mile trail.
A fall trip sounds great there, but then you’re hoping Glacier Point and Tioga Pass stay open for you, not the other way around
There is no way they can justify this and also keep football. What is the current scrap value of the Beav?
I agree about the well-crafted liability waiver, in theory, Tom. The problem is, some "enterprising" lawyer will make a run at it anyway. And, Penn State's insurer will spend money just to make it go away.
People in this country talk about the need for some measure of tort reform, it devolves into a political discussion, and, therefore, dies on the vine. To the best of my thinking, I can't understand how anyone would not be in favor of some measure of common sense tort reform.
Penn State can say that student safety is of paramount importance to them, but, we know better. Otherwise, this would have happened long ago.
Basically--and not to get too political--there's simply too many trial lawyers of all parties making those laws at all levels of government. They'll not kill the goose that laid the golden egg--and continues to lay them--until they have to.
Agree....I recall, many years ago, that all public and club swimming pools removed diving boards. This was almost universal. Five years later, they all came back. I have no idea what happened other than case law and progress on waivers allowed to raise the risk profile of having diving boards.
This seems the same to me. If you sponsor a group of people to whitewater, repel, attend a hockey/baseball/NASCAR event or take a shower there seems to be some level of risk the participant knows and understands.
After reading that, now I'm certain this was the work of idiot lawyers.
My company became a defendant in a lawsuit a couple of years ago. Never mind that we had nothing to do with the injured party suffering his injury, but the lawyers decided we should be tacked on as one of the defendants.
I had to incur costs to defend ourselves, pay for employees to travel and be deposed and had to keep investing certain intangibles in the case. And after all of this, our insurer paid money just to make it go away. And, we all know that, despite what our insurer tells me, that my rates will rise to cover something with which we never should have been involved. And, there are countless stories out there that are the same.
I know of one case where the insurer sued the folks they were insuring--for something that wasn't their fault. But they had money....
It is all about lawsuits and insurance.
Those activities are understood and insured heavily.
Some kid goes hiking, breaks his leg and sues the school. Then the other 10 on the same trip sue the school for emotional trauma.
The school can't do anything about it because the lawsuits continue.
LdN
This is why I personally don't associate defendants who take a plea bargain with guilt. For many it's a way to end a case w/o further expense and risk.
How is this about snowflakes, wussification and what not when Penn State has an Outdoor Adventures and Climbing program that you can pay to join? Like I said previously, this appears to be a way to push more people into this program. So it's greed instead of cowardice which is much more in line with the American way.
OUTDOOR ADVENTURES & CLIMBING
(ADVENTURE RECREATION)
We offer outdoor experiences and learning opportunities for beginners, enthusiasts, and everyone in between. Activities include caving, fly fishing, hiking and backpacking, mountaineering, whitewater rafting, mountain biking, horseback riding, rock climbing, canoeing, kayaking, and standup paddleboarding.
OUTDOOR ADVENTURES & CLIMBING
(ADVENTURE RECREATION)
We offer outdoor experiences and learning opportunities for beginners, enthusiasts, and everyone in between. Activities include caving, fly fishing, hiking and backpacking, mountaineering, whitewater rafting, mountain biking, horseback riding, rock climbing, canoeing, kayaking, and standup paddleboarding.
The school could just pay the lawsuits and promise to get the money from TSM.
I learned to ski with PSOC trips to Blue Knob in the early 70s. I still believe I was in more danger of physical harm eating in the PSU dining halls than on PSOC activities.
as an aside, I was somewhat surprised to see this past weekend that Tussey Mountain still had snow in 4 or 5 locations on its slopes. Not enough to cover an entire run, but still surprising for late April.
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