OT: Michael Jordan

[FlyinLion1]

I’m gonna end this pointless debate right now……………. Michael Jordan is not only the greatest basketball player to ever live, he did things on a basketball court that weren’t even possible on a fairly regular basis.

He was just on a whole different level from everyone else during his era, & his work ethic was second-to-none to say the least!

The only other player that u can legitimately compare him to is Bill Russell, & that’s it!

 

[jmorovich]

 

[LandoComando]

I’m gonna end this pointless debate right now……………. Michael Jordan is not only the greatest basketball player to ever live, he did things on a basketball court that weren’t even possible on a fairly regular basis.

He was just on a whole different level from everyone else during his era, & his work ethic was second-to-none to say the least!

The only other player that u can legitimately compare him to is Bill Russell, & that’s it!

Is this because a small minority of people want to put LeBron on his level?
The reality is fans of the Cavs and Heat are going to be biased toward him. The younger generation that never saw Jordan play is going to be biased toward LeBron.
Kind of like Bonds is the best MLB player I've ever seen but some older than me will say Willie Mays or Ted Williams or maybe Ty Cobb though guessing very few are still alive that saw him play.

 

[tlbakernc]

What about Wilt Chamberlain. Different position player but the best player in his day. Dominant to say the least.

 

[FlyinLion1]

Is this because a small minority of people want to put LeBron on his level?
The reality is fans of the Cavs and Heat are going to be biased toward him. The younger generation that never saw Jordan play is going to be biased toward LeBron.
Kind of like Bonds is the best MLB player I've ever seen but some older than me will say Willie Mays or Ted Williams or maybe Ty Cobb though guessing very few are still alive that saw him play.

Babe Ruth

 

[Fac]

Babe Ruth

Sidd Finch

 

[fkkkjm]

Jordan’s competitiveness was unreal. Maybe Brady is on his level, but I’ve never seen another pro athlete where you just knew he was going to come through in clutch moments.

 

[LandoComando]

Babe Ruth

That works too--countless options if you go back far enough

For example, Elway, to me, is the best QB I've ever seen play. Yes Brady has the titles but Elway was never surrounded by that kind of talent until the very end. Brady had elite defenses throughout his career. Elway carried bad teams to SBs.

It's all perspective.

 

[FlyinLion1]

That works too--countless options if you go back far enough

For example, Elway, to me, is the best QB I've ever seen play. Yes Brady has the titles but Elway was never surrounded by that kind of talent until the very end. Brady had elite defenses throughout his career. Elway carried bad teams to SBs.

It's all perspective.

I compare Drew Allar to a young Elway, myself!

 

[LandoComando]

I compare Drew Allar to a young Elway, myself!

Really hope that's accurate!

 

[PSU Soupy]

Jordan’s competitiveness was unreal. Maybe Brady is on his level, but I’ve never seen another pro athlete where you just knew he was going to come through in clutch moments.

I generally agree.....perhaps Tiger Woods should be in the conversation.....

 

[RickinDayton]

I generally agree.....perhaps Tiger Woods would be in the conversation.....

Unfortunately the injuries derailed Tiger's climb to the very top.

 

[RickinDayton]

I’m gonna end this pointless debate right now……………. Michael Jordan is not only the greatest basketball player to ever live, he did things on a basketball court that weren’t even possible on a fairly regular basis.

He was just on a whole different level from everyone else during his era, & his work ethic was second-to-none to say the least!

The only other player that u can legitimately compare him to is Bill Russell, & that’s it!

You might be correct, but Russell and Wilt would not be too far below. Different eras, but totally dominant in so many ways. For me, LeBron is way down the list. I can name 10 other more impactful NBA players.

 

[lurkerlion]

How do you define? Best set of all around skills? Athleticism? Kareem developed the sky hook into the single most lethal skill in the sport. Magic played every position on the court. Bird had Gretzky’s ability to see the court and score or pass at will. West, Baylor, Big O, Cousy. So many greats, so many arguments.

Ruth was hitting more home runs than entire teams in the dead ball era. He was also a great pitcher. I find it hard to argue that kind of greatness. Tiger at his best was untouchable unlike any other golfer, but Jack still has more majors. Federer was the clear GOAT until Rafa and Joker eclipsed him.

It is fun to make the arguments.

 

[bvillebaron]

Unfortunately the injuries derailed Tiger's climb to the very top.

Nothing "unfortunate" about it; all self-inflicted.

 

[bvillebaron]

How do you define? Best set of all around skills? Athleticism? Kareem developed the sky hook into the single most lethal skill in the sport. Magic played every position on the court. Bird had Gretzky’s ability to see the court and score or pass at will. West, Baylor, Big O, Cousy. So many greats, so many arguments.

Ruth was hitting more home runs than entire teams in the dead ball era. He was also a great pitcher. I find it hard to argue that kind of greatness. Tiger at his best was untouchable unlike any other golfer, but Jack still has more majors. Federer was the clear GOAT until Rafa and Joker eclipsed him.

It is fun to make the arguments.

Yes it is and everyone has an opinion. Ruth was fantastic, but he never played against all of the best baseball players. My own view is that Aaron was the best player of all time.

 

[lurkerlion]

Yes it is and everyone has an opinion. Ruth was fantastic, but he never played against all of the best baseball players. My own view is that Aaron was the best player of all time.

I don’t agree but I can’t say you are wrong. I guess that is why these arguments are more fun than most.

 

[LandoComando]

How do you define? Best set of all around skills? Athleticism? Kareem developed the sky hook into the single most lethal skill in the sport. Magic played every position on the court. Bird had Gretzky’s ability to see the court and score or pass at will. West, Baylor, Big O, Cousy. So many greats, so many arguments.

Ruth was hitting more home runs than entire teams in the dead ball era. He was also a great pitcher. I find it hard to argue that kind of greatness. Tiger at his best was untouchable unlike any other golfer, but Jack still has more majors. Federer was the clear GOAT until Rafa and Joker eclipsed him.

It is fun to make the arguments.

It for sure is.
You also have to wonder what Andy Murray or Stanislav Wawrinka could have accomplished if even one of those 3 weren't around at the same time.
All these discussion have countless layers

 

[LandoComando]

Yes it is and everyone has an opinion. Ruth was fantastic, but he never played against all of the best baseball players. My own view is that Aaron was the best player of all time.

While segregation definitely prevented some great players from participating in MLB I'm not sure how we hold Ruth accountable for that.

Aaron better than Bonds? Even pre-steroids Bonds? I definitely think that's an unusual take but I've seen worse.

 

[SLion]

Let's go to the video tape. This is still unbelievable over 30 years later. As someone said, this is generational. A young man had Irish jersey on St. Pats Day. It was not ND but Lebron's HS jersey. I noticed right away. Nice kid but I turned convo to Jordan and LeBron debate and he said Lebron, not even close. I laughed and said watch the tape. I also told him that realize this is generational issue. He was not alive when Jordan played. It was like someone telling me at 22 that Wilt was the greatest. He laughed. That is just truth of aging.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Jordan’s competitiveness was unreal. Maybe Brady is on his level, but I’ve never seen another pro athlete where you just knew he was going to come through in clutch moments.

like his final clutch moment when he pushed off

 

[DrJC]

I’m gonna end this pointless debate right now……………. Michael Jordan is not only the greatest basketball player to ever live, he did things on a basketball court that weren’t even possible on a fairly regular basis.

He was just on a whole different level from everyone else during his era, & his work ethic was second-to-none to say the least!

The only other player that u can legitimately compare him to is Bill Russell, & that’s it!

Go easy there big guy. I beg to differ. To me, Chamberlain was the greatest talent and force on a basketball court. Even Russell admits that one on one - - no one could match Chamberlain. My second choice would be Oscar Robertson. Unfortunately many have not seen either in their peak years, so I understand the preference for Jordan.

 

[lurkerlion]

Go easy there big guy. I beg to differ. To me, Chamberlain was the greatest talent and force on a basketball court. Even Russell admits that one on one - - no one could match Chamberlain. My second choice would be Oscar Robertson. Unfortunately many have not seen either in their peak years, so I understand the preference for Jordan.

Chamberlain and Shaq couldn’t shoot free throws which might end all debate if they could. Russell probably was Jordan’s equal in the “competitiveness” criterion, and he won more rings. Steph has changed the game with his shooting and is going for his fifth ring?

Going back to Brady, if he hadn’t hooked up with Belichick, that might have opened things up for the Steelers for 3 to 5 more Super Bowls (I am obviously biased). If Ben got 3 more rings, does he get some mentions? I don’t think so either, but 5 rings gets large respect. What ifs!

 

[LandoComando]

Chamberlain and Shaq couldn’t shoot free throws which might end all debate if they could. Russell probably was Jordan’s equal in the “competitiveness” criterion, and he won more rings. Steph has changed the game with his shooting and is going for his fifth ring?

Going back to Brady, if he hadn’t hooked up with Belichick, that might have opened things up for the Steelers for 3 to 5 more Super Bowls (I am obviously biased). If Ben got 3 more rings, does he get some mentions? I don’t think so either, but 5 rings gets large respect. What ifs!

Good point about Wilt and Shaq from the line. I don't think Steph is in the discussion but greatness is usually influenced by the impact you had to the game which there's no doubt Steph has had as much as anyone in recent memory. More than LeBron IMO

No, Ben still wouldn't be in the discussion for the GOAT even with 5 rings. Ben had too many flaws in his game for that. Ben would have been in that second tier group I believe with that. Regardless he still should be a first ballot HOFer as it is but I sure wish the Steelers won 3-5 more

 

[Online Persona]

How do you define? Best set of all around skills? Athleticism? Kareem developed the sky hook into the single most lethal skill in the sport. Magic played every position on the court. Bird had Gretzky’s ability to see the court and score or pass at will. West, Baylor, Big O, Cousy. So many greats, so many arguments.

Ruth was hitting more home runs than entire teams in the dead ball era. He was also a great pitcher. I find it hard to argue that kind of greatness. Tiger at his best was untouchable unlike any other golfer, but Jack still has more majors. Federer was the clear GOAT until Rafa and Joker eclipsed him.

It is fun to make the arguments.

And Barry sanders regularly made pro athletes just look silly.

 

[baircub1!]

That works too--countless options if you go back far enough

For example, Elway, to me, is the best QB I've ever seen play. Yes Brady has the titles but Elway was never surrounded by that kind of talent until the very end. Brady had elite defenses throughout his career. Elway carried bad teams to SBs.

It's all perspective.

If refs call that “forward motion” call a fumble against the Raiders.. curious to see why his career would have looked like…

 

[McCloudersportLion]

I do think Jordan is indeed still the GOAT but the margin between him and LeBron that boomer and Gen X vaguely basketball follower bros nostalgic about they watched Jordan in the playoffs that time think there is...

Bill Russell is an all time great but played when there were like ten teams in the NBA and his squads were stacked with 3 or 4 HOFers at a time. Yes boomer, LeBron has surpassed even the great Bill Russell, mày he RIP.

 

[PSU20]

Another person worth mentioning is Larry Bird. Remember, he was a 24 yo rookie. Imagine if he came out at 19 like the new group!

 

[Obliviax]

I’m gonna end this pointless debate right now……………. Michael Jordan is not only the greatest basketball player to ever live, he did things on a basketball court that weren’t even possible on a fairly regular basis.

He was just on a whole different level from everyone else during his era, & his work ethic was second-to-none to say the least!

The only other player that u can legitimately compare him to is Bill Russell, & that’s it!

Who is the only person in the world that held Michael Jordan to less than 20 PPG (minimum of 20 games)?


Dean Smith

 

[MacNit07]

Another person worth mentioning is Larry Bird. Remember, he was a 24 yo rookie. Imagine if he came out at 19 like the new group!

Larry Legend could do things and stuff at levels that no one else could do. The best ever.

 

[LongJakk]

Wilt was the most dominant NBA play of all time. He played on too many crappy teams and probably didn't make his teammates better enough of the time. His scoring and rebounding were unbelievable.

I'll take Willie mays in baseball he was the greatest 5 tool player ever.

Football? Probably go with Lawrence taylor.