OT: Helping an alcoholic family member

[LionJim]

Yesterday, @Bondist posted a sad request for advice on how to help his son. I once started a very long thread about how to help an alcoholic friend and I suspect that @Bondist's post got lost in the Dry January thread. This is just me making sure this gets the attention it deserves from the board. Thank you for your indulgence.

@Bondist, I tried to post something to help yesterday but couldn't come up with the right words. I hope this helps. God Bless.

This is the original post:
Hesitate to post , but if anyone has honest suggestions then worth it. No alcohol (weekend red wine only) since June 1 when 34 year son, unemployed and divorced and struggling alcoholic moved home. Thought to show support , as no big deal for me to eliminate but despite numerous recommendations at counseling I have failed to help him. Have heard numerous time rock bottom, etc . DUI hearing approaching, maybe the court will forced help.

From @Lion Son/Husband/Father: Does he go to meetings? They saved my cousins life.

From @paulrandythomas: Nearly all meetings these days are on Zoom, just google AA with your location and there will be many options. Or, the AA intergroup site has links to meetings worldwide, 24/7. He can turn off his mic and video if he wants and just listen and remain truly anonymous.

 

[Delco Lion]

Courts rarely force treatment for DUI, unless you are convicted and mandated to a prison that has a drug and alcohol treatment program. Many times those facing DUI charges will seek treatment on their own to try to get a reduced sentence. My son and stepson both had serious substance-opiate issues that they developed in college. Percs, oxy, and fentanyl.

They are now in their 30’s. The younger one was in college and after a year of enabling him, I told him it was all over and he had to go to rehab or he was on his own. He chose rehab and then moved into a halfway house in Lancaster and worked and completed his degree. The rehab actually hired him and he is now a VP with a very large behavioral health company and sober since rehab.

The story on my other son is not as positive. He is going to have a long hard life. We did get him into rehab several times, but he still has issues.

One thing is for sure, you have very little control over an addict. As far as the situation being discussed here, if the alcoholic son is still drinking, he needs to be told to go to rehab or leave the house. If he has stopped drinking, he needs to attend meetings or attend via zoom.

I am always willing to talk with anyone here who needs help with this.

delco1958@yahoo.com

 

[Nittany1997]

I had to take a court ordered alcohol education class due to a Preakness incident many years ago. It helped a little. If the young man is still single, I do recall some good looking wool at the meetings.

 

[AvgUser]

Topics like this are very sad.

Addiction is an absolutely devastating disease to witness first-hand. My heart and prayers go out to whomever is trying to help someone with a drug/alcohol addiction. Unfortunately, you are probably powerless to do anything unless the addicted individual wants to do something about it themselves.

The events and actions that I saw when watching and trying to help an addict were far more bizarre and any fiction one could imagine. As this thread progresses, I suspect there will be a myriad of suggestions and opinions on what to do. My belief is that every situation is unique unto itself. There isn't 'one way' to help.

I wish I could offer the silver bullet. I cannot. I can only offer the advice to remain strong, remain firm, and do not allow addiction to consume and take you down with it, no matter how hard is is attacking you.

 

[mrtailgate]

You are in my thoughts. You will get a ton of responses, all likely to be variations of one another (reaching rock bottom, enabling, participation in programs, etc). Just a couple of other thoughts beyond those-

1- Many times, people suffering addiction issues are not employed so that one might push the person to find employment as a means of “distraction” to remedy the issue. My feeling is that this just doesn’t work. Someone who has an addiction issue must face the issue first and a job, hobby (exercise), etc won’t trump the addiction if still present.

2- If you ever watch “Intervention”, one of the frequent comments is that the interventionist will mention that it’s not surprising that the person has the issue given life experiences the addict might have been subject to. At times, and I would say a lot of times, there is an issue that the person is masking their pain from. These can be really difficult but if you are aware that the person was abused as a child, the child went through a painful divorce of their parents, etc, then the addiction issue might be secondary. Instead of focusing on the drinking or drugs issue, the addict needs to reconcile the life issue that might be the issue they are attempting to mask. This is really difficult and painful but the approach might be to ask the person about issues that they have been impacted by and look for resolution there.

3- There are so many destructive approaches. Recognize that saying things like “just stop”, “you’re x years old, it’s time for you to stop and grow up”, etc don’t work. Recognize that if there has been an ongoing problem, then the person’s normal brain development may have been compromised. Someone who is 25 and who has been involved in drugs or alcohol for 5 years or whatever is 25 in age but not in development. You might think you’re dealing with an adult, you need to recognize that you aren’t.

4- Meetings are interesting. The addict and their family will find them to be VERY powerful. Some will question their usefulness, others will say that they were life changing. My feeling is that hard core addicts seldom recover on just their own or by simply flipping a switch. So, I’d encourage pursuit of them but be patient and find the right one. Family participation in the meetings is CRITICAL. The family has contributed to the issues one way or another. Behavioral change isn’t at the addict level only.

5- Most important though is the recognition that this is a disease. Remove yourself from blame or accountability. Very few people wake up one day at the start and say “I can’t wait to be an addict”. Unfortunately the brain reacts and there are instances of people who become addicted instantly to something the first time or the first couple of times with certain substances. Opiates prescribed by doctors is a HUGE issue. There are countless instances of prescription drug dependence. Shaming people by their addiction is ultimately the WORST thing you can do.

There is a ton of anger that evolves but this is more frustration that has manifested itself into anger. There is also a ton of guilt and remorse on the other side of the see saw. Support is critical. The addict feels trapped, feels they are not meeting expectations, and ultimately feels that their life isn’t worth living. Maybe it is an instance where the person dropped out of school and they now feel worthless. Emphasize the possibilities, emphasize the potential that the person has at any age. Support them and tell them that their life can still be a wonderful experience and that it’s worth getting to the other side.

God bless everyone and their family or friends dealing with addiction pain.

 

[walleye38]

Yesterday, @Bondist posted a sad request for advice on how to help his son. I once started a very long thread about how to help an alcoholic friend and I suspect that @Bondist's post got lost in the Dry January thread. This is just me making sure this gets the attention it deserves from the board. Thank you for your indulgence.

@Bondist, I tried to post something to help yesterday but couldn't come up with the right words. I hope this helps. God Bless.

This is the original post:
Hesitate to post , but if anyone has honest suggestions then worth it. No alcohol (weekend red wine only) since June 1 when 34 year son, unemployed and divorced and struggling alcoholic moved home. Thought to show support , as no big deal for me to eliminate but despite numerous recommendations at counseling I have failed to help him. Have heard numerous time rock bottom, etc . DUI hearing approaching, maybe the court will forced help.

From @Lion Son/Husband/Father: Does he go to meetings? They saved my cousins life.

From @paulrandythomas: Nearly all meetings these days are on Zoom, just google AA with your location and there will be many options. Or, the AA intergroup site has links to meetings worldwide, 24/7. He can turn off his mic and video if he wants and just listen and remain truly anonymous.

My daughter is an alcoholic, and it is so hard on her and the family. She can't hold a job, and of course it is everyone's fault except hers. When I try to point out that alcohol might be the problem, she goes off on a tangent. The alcoholic must want to be sober, or there is nothing you can do, sad to say.

 

[Ralphie_]

Some people have said Al Anon has helped, at least with support and understanding, how others in the same situation have dealt with issues, what may have helped and what did not.

 

[Connorpozlee]

As somebody else in here said, there are many ways to intervene. None of them will work unless the addict wants them to, though. On the other hand, any of them might work if they are ready for them to work.
On a very simple level, I would say to just be there for them. Offer assistance without having your life revolve around it. Offer suggestions. I’ve known people that have gone the “tough love” route and have never known that to work, but I have heard of instances where it did. Personally, I couldn’t shut somebody completely out of my life that I love and care for.

 

[Obliviax]

Yesterday, @Bondist posted a sad request for advice on how to help his son. I once started a very long thread about how to help an alcoholic friend and I suspect that @Bondist's post got lost in the Dry January thread. This is just me making sure this gets the attention it deserves from the board. Thank you for your indulgence.

@Bondist, I tried to post something to help yesterday but couldn't come up with the right words. I hope this helps. God Bless.

This is the original post:
Hesitate to post , but if anyone has honest suggestions then worth it. No alcohol (weekend red wine only) since June 1 when 34 year son, unemployed and divorced and struggling alcoholic moved home. Thought to show support , as no big deal for me to eliminate but despite numerous recommendations at counseling I have failed to help him. Have heard numerous time rock bottom, etc . DUI hearing approaching, maybe the court will forced help.

From @Lion Son/Husband/Father: Does he go to meetings? They saved my cousins life.

From @paulrandythomas: Nearly all meetings these days are on Zoom, just google AA with your location and there will be many options. Or, the AA intergroup site has links to meetings worldwide, 24/7. He can turn off his mic and video if he wants and just listen and remain truly anonymous.

There is probably no more difficult situation to be in. And, this is why I have been an advocate of opening things back up in the age of covid. It is ridiculous that AA meetings cannot be in person. It is like saying a surgery patient can't have rehab. You are creating one more dangerous situation by avoiding another.

A friend is raising the child of his meth-addicted son; one of four kids of his. He told me the other day that no parent is happier than his least happy child.

Regardless, I've listened to my wife give council on this for over 20 years. You can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. That is job one. Are they sincere? If not, it is all a waste of time. The second issue is that recovering from a booze addiction is that they are also addicted to the life. A great line from "Sunset Grill" is "What would I do without all those jerks anyway, besides all my friends are here." Not only does the patient have to give up booze, they have to dump most/all of the friends they picked up along the way. It is a sea change and, often, a lonely ride. So they need to be prepared for good buddies to call them up and say "what happened to you?" "You think you are too good for us?" "You used to be a lot of fun" and "C'mon, its the holidays, I miss you, just one beer for old time's sake, what can one beer hurt?'

That's it...prayer and best wishes.

 

[Lion Son/Husband/Father]

I had to take a court ordered alcohol education class due to a Preakness incident many years ago. It helped a little. If the young man is still single, I do recall some good looking wool at the meetings.

you lost some speed

 

[Nitwit]

I would suggest an intervention. It takes a lot of advance preparation. No returning home to pack or waiting until the next day for the residential addiction treatment facility. Have the car ready and waiting to leave. Have the Kleenex ready too. He should be sent directly to a residential facility with no argument or delay. Be a cure not an enabler. I sat it one involving our CEO and it’s the only thing that worked. After 28 days he returned, joined AA, and stayed dry for the rest of his career.

 

[The Spin Meister]

You are in my thoughts. You will get a ton of responses, all likely to be variations of one another (reaching rock bottom, enabling, participation in programs, etc). Just a couple of other thoughts beyond those-

1- Many times, people suffering addiction issues are not employed so that one might push the person to find employment as a means of “distraction” to remedy the issue. My feeling is that this just doesn’t work. Someone who has an addiction issue must face the issue first and a job, hobby (exercise), etc won’t trump the addiction if still present.

2- If you ever watch “Intervention”, one of the frequent comments is that the interventionist will mention that it’s not surprising that the person has the issue given life experiences the addict might have been subject to. At times, and I would say a lot of times, there is an issue that the person is masking their pain from. These can be really difficult but if you are aware that the person was abused as a child, the child went through a painful divorce of their parents, etc, then the addiction issue might be secondary. Instead of focusing on the drinking or drugs issue, the addict needs to reconcile the life issue that might be the issue they are attempting to mask. This is really difficult and painful but the approach might be to ask the person about issues that they have been impacted by and look for resolution there.

3- There are so many destructive approaches. Recognize that saying things like “just stop”, “you’re x years old, it’s time for you to stop and grow up”, etc don’t work. Recognize that if there has been an ongoing problem, then the person’s normal brain development may have been compromised. Someone who is 25 and who has been involved in drugs or alcohol for 5 years or whatever is 25 in age but not in development. You might think you’re dealing with an adult, you need to recognize that you aren’t.

4- Meetings are interesting. The addict and their family will find them to be VERY powerful. Some will question their usefulness, others will say that they were life changing. My feeling is that hard core addicts seldom recover on just their own or by simply flipping a switch. So, I’d encourage pursuit of them but be patient and find the right one. Family participation in the meetings is CRITICAL. The family has contributed to the issues one way or another. Behavioral change isn’t at the addict level only.

5- Most important though is the recognition that this is a disease. Remove yourself from blame or accountability. Very few people wake up one day at the start and say “I can’t wait to be an addict”. Unfortunately the brain reacts and there are instances of people who become addicted instantly to something the first time or the first couple of times with certain substances. Opiates prescribed by doctors is a HUGE issue. There are countless instances of prescription drug dependence. Shaming people by their addiction is ultimately the WORST thing you can do.

There is a ton of anger that evolves but this is more frustration that has manifested itself into anger. There is also a ton of guilt and remorse on the other side of the see saw. Support is critical. The addict feels trapped, feels they are not meeting expectations, and ultimately feels that their life isn’t worth living. Maybe it is an instance where the person dropped out of school and they now feel worthless. Emphasize the possibilities, emphasize the potential that the person has at any age. Support them and tell them that their life can still be a wonderful experience and that it’s worth getting to the other side.

God bless everyone and their family or friends dealing with addiction pain.

Excellent post. And like Obli said they have to have a total life change. Get rid of friends that brought them down. Is very hard as it will feel like they are deserting them or turning their backs on them. For many people it is best to move to a new area and start new once they are ready. A neighbor’s son has been fighting for decades. Moves away does good for two three years, moves back home and in six months is back on the stuff.

One thing I would suggest to add to doing all of the above......ask them what kinda of life would they live if they were sober? School, career, what area of the country would they most like to live, hobbies, and more. While talking about this work it into a plan and set of goals. This will get them thinking of a better future instead of the self hatred of their failed past.

Bring it up often. Watch tv or movies with that career or based in that future location. Talk about schools, what majors to take, wat h sports from those schools. Keep reinforcing his/her future life. It will get to the point where the future life will dominate the past life.

As for AA....it seems that people with addictions often have addictive personalities. Meaning they will trade one addiction for another. Knew people that did the AA route and it helped them tremendously but they also laughed how attendees chain smoked, drank coffee by the gallon, and had a lot of sex with each other. Seems they need to get the Adrenalin rush of excitement from somewhere. Don’t freak out if they pick up some other behaviors.

 

[Erial_Lion]

you Lost some speed

View embedded media

I was going to say...having been on the Preakness infield, I can only imagine how bad things got for him to get in trouble. It made crazy PSU tailgates look like a tea party.

 

[Lion Son/Husband/Father]

Been there bro. 23, broke lost my boys and my $50 by race 2. No water, no food. Thought I was gonna die. It was bonnaroo hot.

 

[Obliviax]

Excellent post. And like Obli said they have to have a total life change. Get rid of friends that brought them down. Is very hard as it will feel like they are deserting them or turning their backs on them. For many people it is best to move to a new area and start new once they are ready. A neighbor’s son has been fighting for decades. Moves away does good for two three years, moves back home and in six months is back on the stuff.

One thing I would suggest to add to doing all of the above......ask them what kinda of life would they live if they were sober? School, career, what area of the country would they most like to live, hobbies, and more. While talking about this work it into a plan and set of goals. This will get them thinking of a better future instead of the self hatred of their failed past.

Bring it up often. Watch tv or movies with that career or based in that future location. Talk about schools, what majors to take, wat h sports from those schools. Keep reinforcing his/her future life. It will get to the point where the future life will dominate the past life.

As for AA....it seems that people with addictions often have addictive personalities. Meaning they will trade one addiction for another. Knew people that did the AA route and it helped them tremendously but they also laughed how attendees chain smoked, drank coffee by the gallon, and had a lot of sex with each other. Seems they need to get the Adrenalin rush of excitement from somewhere. Don’t freak out if they pick up some other behaviors.

good points.

it is especially hard with AA is closed and there are few social outlets during a pandemic. I understand falling off the wagon is at an all-time high, as are deaths by OD and suicide.

To you point with other addictions, a guy that used to give me guitar lessons is good friends with Alice Cooper. The instructor is a HUGE golf nut and starts his day, every day weather permits, with nine holes or more. He told me AC got him into it. Later, I was listening to an interview with AC. Before the pandemic, he was doing 50 concerts a year. He said his road manager knew to schedule 18 holes for him at the break of dawn every day possible but especially the day after a concert. He was very open about trading his drug and booze dependencies for gold. he said he had to be addicted to something so chose something he loved and was good for him. Eric Clapton said the same about sailing but he can't sail as much due to his schedule. Eric has a nice boat!:

 

[PSULionsDub]

One other piece of advice is that you should consider who does the alcoholic associate or hang around with? These individuals could be enablers and bad influences on the alcoholic. I have a friend whose Mother was an enabler of his sister's alcoholism. The mother knew of the alcoholic's struggles with alcohol, but she never once stepped in to to help. The mother simply looked the other way EVERY SINGLE TIME. And No, the mother was not an alcoholic.

 

[Delco Lion]

I was going to say...having been on the Preakness infield, I can only imagine how bad things got for him to get in trouble. It made crazy PSU tailgates look like a tea party.

Back in the 70’s you could bring in grills, tents, sofas, kegs, et al. Those were good times.

 

[Bondist]

I can not express enough thanks and appreciation to individuals that are total strangers, but stood beside me in their concern, positive thoughts and best advice that I have received to this point. You have enabled me to go forward with more determination than ever imagined. Love you all!

 

[PSULionsDub]

I had to take a court ordered alcohol education class due to a Preakness incident many years ago. It helped a little. If the young man is still single, I do recall some good looking wool at the meetings.

If you don’t mind me asking, what was your Preakness incident? Were you a drunken meathead who got into a fight, a drunken fool who threw beer cans or pushed a porta potty over, or were you a drunk who passed out in the infield? You must tell.

 

[Lion Son/Husband/Father]

my guess is passed out in a s-class owned by someone important

 

[The Spin Meister]

If you don’t mind me asking, what was your Preakness incident? Were you a drunken meathead who got into a fight, a drunken fool who threw beer cans or pushed a porta potty over, or were you a drunk who passed out in the infield? You must tell.

You left out sex in public......

 

[MJG-90]

You left out sex in public......

You aren't kidding about that. I was there a couple of times when I was stationed at Fort Mead. Watched lots of public sex acts. It was crazy.

On the subject at hand. One of my younger brothers is an alcoholic. He used to call us (my other brothers and sisters) while drunk and would yell about stuff that didn't make sense. My youngest brother finally said enough and talked him into getting help. Out of the blue, my alcoholic brother called me and asked me to drive him to a meeting. I dropped everything on the spot and made sure he got to that meeting.

I have the first nine years worth of coins under the glass on my desk. It's been 12 years but he doesn't go to meetings anymore, so he hasn't given me any coins the last three years. It comes down to being ready. My brother was ready to make a change. He broke up with his alcoholic boyfriend and moved into an apartment that a guy in the program held open for people in the program that needed a place to live. Now he owns his own house (though he rents it out because he took a job in Philly).

Bottom line, it takes getting to the point of realizing a change is more important in the long run.

 

[Lion84]

You left out sex in public......

Is that wrong? - is that frowned upon because at my last place people were doing that all over the place.

 

[MoyerJones]

just to add some points on top the great ones above:

1. circle the wagons of his closest family members and friends. it could be two or three people. the ones you know he absolutely trusts and would do anything for. it could be just you. it is not a party. only select the people who will sell your son on getting help. an intervention (IMO) should not be a blood letting or a family gathering.

do not focus on getting him better when you speak to him. focus on persuading him to get professional help. (another reason why a smaller group is better) do not give him the opportunity to air his own grievances and arguments. your "intervention" should be selling him on going to rehab and staying in rehab, and that's it. focus on things that will make it easy for him to say "yes."

what can you say and do to get him to make the right decision. on limited information, consider these selling points: (1) helping him with the costs of his divorce; (2) talking to his ex (if she knows already) and getting her to call off the dogs of war for a period of time while he gets help; (3) now that he is unemployed, it is a good time to go to rehab; (4) financial assistance.

focus on his pride, his self-worth, his manhood, etc. it's worked for me with others: show him the picture of who he was before the destruction. going to rehab is accepting a challenge. it is a heroic and courageous move if HE decides to do it himself. if he makes the decision himself, he will always have a sense of pride that he manned up and took on the challenge. far better to decide to go on his own free will as opposed to being forced to go.

2. with those individuals (or you alone), develop a very clear plan. does not have to be long. rehab is almost always the best route. almost any rehab will have "consultants" who you can contact (most give their personal cell phone numbers). consultants are the people you can call to explain and strategize with. they will answer questions like: how much does it cost, how long will it last, does this rehab accept your son's insurance (with just your son's full name and DOB, the rehab can find out if they accept his insurance). some rehabs will use medication to dull urges. consultants may also assist you on developing a plan. the consultant wants your business so they will be very helpful.

3. find him a room at a rehab before you intervene.

he will likely hedge due to responsibilities (mortgage, work, kids, etc.) so it's best to have those things covered. get those things in place so that when he tries to negotiate for more time or if he uses them as an excuse to say no, you can say, "it's already taken care of, and here is how it's taken care of."

4. if you have a lot of people he loves and trusts, don't be afraid to ask for their help for things beyond just intervening and talking to him. financial, familial, and court obligations are huge stressors.

one of the biggest heroes of my life is a family member who stepped up and said "yes to help." i let that person know that often.

going to rehab/getting help is a good thing. making the decision himself and having the feeling of accomplishment that he did will go a long way.

best of luck to you

 

[Nittany1997]

It was technically after Preakness in downtown Annapolis. A little fuzzy, but I met a girl at one bar and then we went to another. Towards closing time, we went back to the original bar to tell her friends that we were going back to my place to shoot pool. She went into O’Brien’s, but the bouncer would not let me in. I waited for a moment and the bouncer told me to beat it. I mother off to him and a police officer put me in the back seat fairly quickly. The charge was failure to obey a police officer. Not very exciting, but a good learning opportunity.