OT: Have you changed habits or plans due to runaway inflation, record gas prices, or collapsing stock market?

Have you changed habits or plans?

  • No. Same standard of living. I'm fine.

    Votes: 29 28.4%
  • No. Same standard of living, but taking a financial hit to do so.

    Votes: 18 17.6%
  • No. Same standard of living but running up debt to make it happen.

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Yes, somewhat tightened the belt.

    Votes: 26 25.5%
  • Yes, playing it cautious until things calm down.

    Votes: 25 24.5%
  • Yes, I've experienced significant negative changes in how I live

    Votes: 8 7.8%

  • Total voters
    102

Cletus11

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Aug 8, 2003
11,774
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I think there is an old saying that fits the current situation very well...."two wrongs don't make a right"
 

BringBackStoneys

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Aug 14, 2001
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How much did those cars cost you and how old are they?
The average new car purchase price in the US
is $47k. My first EV was $48k before the $7k tax rebate. That was 4 years ago. My second was $55k - no rebate. My net fuel savings compared to my last gas car is about $2800 per year, per car and my maintenance savings is about $400 per car, per year. I locked in my electric rate for 3 years so I can budget my fuel expenses through 2025 with reasonable accuracy.
 
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87 Penn St8

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Feb 11, 2009
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Chester County, PA
Japans is 1.9 and China's 2.2%
My son was just in Tokyo on a work Visa to document the opening of Guys and Dolls at The Imperial Theater. It was a very challenging process and just days before the trip that the government approved he and 2 colleagues. It took 3 months to get finalized.

Japan apparently remains in a form of Covid lock down where there are no tourists at all. In fact, in 14 days there they didn't see any other Caucasians beyond people involved with the play. He said it was surreal...like being a genuine fly on the wall in the country. People stared and gawker at them like circus performers ( and that he is 6 foot 3 and another traveller was 6' 6"

A college buddy of theirs is a Tokyo native who now works for Goldman there. He hadn't seen anyone for 3 years...so he was very excited to host/party/travel to Kyoto for the vacation part of the trip. He cannot travel out.

I do not know exactly how they did it...but my son says that Covid is a non factor there. All sorts of testing pre and upon arrival. Then they made him " voluntarily" allow them to track him and his buddies phones. After a few days when I guess it became clear that they weren't spreading the virus the App disappeared from the phone with a request to stay mindful of spreading germs. Odd.

While China has stolen headlines with their massive lockdowns and Shanghai shut down, Japan has received much less coverage.

I in no way want to turn this thread even further on its' head. I also do not know the exact reasons why Japan has been able to keep a lid on inflation. However, at least some of the tactics being employed by their government are very counter to what we've done here and/or what people on both sides of the aisle would tolerate. Their relative stability in the Covid area likely plays a role...exactly what I'm unsure.

If anyone knows I'd like to better understand...
 
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Online Persona

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Feb 2, 2022
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How many millions of Americans do people think have been pushed into poverty due to 8.6% inflation? I find it very odd that the media hasn't reported on this at all. It is easily tens of millions this year alone that are newly below an inflation-driven upward revised poverty line. Easily the biggest story of 2022. No one seems to care though.

This thread was about how it's impacted us, mostly a college educated and upper middle class group of posters. Yet, according to our poll, almost 60% of us have been affected by the crushing inflation enough to have tightened our belts. About 1 in 10 of us say it has significantly altered their life negatively. And this group is skewed to upper middle class, what has it done to lower middle class and the poor who are disproportionately hurt by inflation?

My thoughts to this point on the thread, putting aside the many attempts to change the subject from those that do not want people to contemplate the real impacts of record inflation, record gas prices, a stock market collapse, and now a growing round of layoffs, and 70% of economists predicting recession by 2023, is that we as a group are better off than most but also many seem to lack empathy for those who are not. And there are tens of millions who don't know how they are going to feed their families in this new economic reality. With a large number of companies already started with layoffs and inflation still rising and the fed just started to tighten, things look to be getting even worse. Plus, tens and tens of millions have responded to record inflation by going deeper and deeper into debt. What happens when tens of millions of people's credit is maxed out and they cannot afford to pay the higher prices and the much higher rates for that credit?

I personally was very insulated and quite frankly was used to a lofty growth of personal wealth over the past 5 years. But this year, our net worth is currently down 13% at this time. First time really in my adult life that my net worth has declined. I'm not unretiring as millions are, but I don't like going backwards and we nearly all are, even those most insulated. Even so, I cannot help but feel fortunate to not be amongst the tens of millions of Americans pushed into poverty right now. That is very real and devastating.

It's going to be difficult to be consciously aware of this and continue to give at current levels if my net worth remains under attack. For now I'll suck it up but unfortunately I don't want to risk going backwards too much and will likely become more cautious if things don't start turning around soon.
 
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BUFFALO LION

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2001
12,267
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The average new car purchase price in the US
is $47k. My first EV was $48k before the $7k tax rebate. That was 4 years ago. My second was $55k - no rebate. My net fuel savings compared to my last gas car is about $2800 per year, per car and my maintenance savings is about $400 per car, per year. I locked in my electric rate for 3 years so I can budget my fuel expenses through 2025 with reasonable accuracy.

Thanks.

I find that “average new car purchase price” VERY hard to believe even though a quick google search says that is the case. Don’t have the time right now to dig into those numbers, but my guess is that that inflated number includes EV vehicles like yours which drive those averages WAY up.

I just bought a brand new 2022 Toyota Camry in April. I haven’t bought a USED car since the mid 70s. I buy a new car every 3 years and currently have four. Two Camrys, an Impala, and a Chrysler Pacifica (which I affectionately call the limo) 🙂.

The reason I bought the new Camry was because when I tried to trade in my current Pacifica (which is a fantastic vehicle) for a new one, they told me (after I was able to find the only salesman still working there) I would have to order it and wait up to 8 months for delivery. When I said screw that, he said they had lots of new Kias available on their adjacent lot. He said everyone seems to have new Foreign based vehicles available.

Not feeling like looking at Kias that day, I thanked him and told him maybe I would come back some other time.

I still wanted to replace one of my older cars with a new one, so after walking into numerous dealerships which used to jump all over me as soon as I walked through the door, I soon came to realize that the GM, Chrysler, and Ford dealerships had all become ghost towns. I literally had to yell “IS ANYBODY HERE” in some of them, or go into the garage to find someone.

The Chrysler salesman I first talked to was right. When I would get someone at one of the other Dealerships, they pretty much all told me to a man that Biden was screwing them and forcing them to sell Electric cars. The component excuse was all bullish!t because the foreign based cars all seemed to be coming through just fine.

When I would go into the Foreign based dealerships like Kia or Toyota, they were getting in a new load of new cars every week. Having already owned a 2016 Toyota Camry that I really like, and wanting to get rid of my 2015 Chevy Cruise, I decided to buy another Camry which I had my choice of to replace my Cruise.

New car Dealerships that had access to foreign based models were selling new cars like hot cakes. Dealerships that had only American based cars to sell were dying a slow death with no inventory on the lot that anyone wanted to buy.

My new 2022 ICE Camry, fully loaded and roughly the same size as my Impala, had a sticker on it of roughly $30,000. After the trade in on the Cruise, with the tax included, I wrote a check out for about $25,000 (I pay cash for all my cars).

The bottom line is there is no way I would pay $47, $48, or $55 thousand dollars for an Electric vehicle when I have to drive the number of miles I have to drive. Many times in bitterly cold weather. All I hear from people with EVs are complaints that they are junk, and they have to be constantly charged.

Cracks me up when the only EVs I see at those charging stations on the turnpike are ones on the back of flatbeds that have to be towed because they ran out of juice. After listening to those guys I talked to in the new car Dealerships I visited, I find that $47 thousand dollar average new car price very deceiving. Not that it’s wrong, but that it’s because people are either being forced into buying used junk, or an astronomically expensive EV.

Hint to anyone wanting to buy an affordable new vehicle and not wanting to wait 8 months for it. Go to the foreign based new car dealerships. Avoid the GMs, Fords, and Chrysler’s. They are all dying a slow death with no inventory. Biden is killing them. Really feel bad for those guys.
 
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BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
442
475
1
Thanks.

I find that “average new car purchase price” VERY hard to believe even though a quick google search says that is the case. Don’t have the time right now to dig into those numbers, but my guess is that that inflated number includes EV vehicles like yours which drive those averages WAY up.

I just bought a brand new 2022 Toyota Camry in April. I haven’t bought a USED car since the mid 70s. I buy a new car every 3 years and currently have four. Two Camrys, an Impala, and a Chrysler Pacifica (which I affectionately call the limo) 🙂.

The reason I bought the new Camry was because when I tried to trade in my current Pacifica (which is a fantastic vehicle) for a new one, they told me (after I was able to find the only salesman still working there) I would have to order it and wait up to 8 months for delivery. When I said screw that, he said they had lots of new Kias available on their adjacent lot. He said everyone seems to have new Foreign based vehicles available.

Not feeling like looking at Kias that day, I thanked him and told him maybe I would come back some other time.

I still wanted to replace one of my older cars with a new one, so after walking into numerous dealerships which used to jump all over me as soon as I walked through the door, I soon came to realize that the GM, Chrysler, and Ford dealerships had all become ghost towns. I literally had to yell “IS ANYBODY HERE” in some of them, or go into the garage to find someone.

The Chrysler salesman I first talked to was right. When I would get someone at one of the other Dealerships, they pretty much all told me to a man that Biden was screwing them and forcing them to sell Electric cars. The component excuse was all bullish!t because the foreign based cars all seemed to be coming through just fine.

When I would go into the Foreign based dealerships like Kia or Toyota, they were getting in a new load of new cars every week. Having already owned a 2016 Toyota Camry that I really like, and wanting to get rid of my 2015 Chevy Cruise, I decided to buy another Camry which I had my choice of to replace my Cruise.

New car Dealerships that had access to foreign based models were selling new cars like hot cakes. Dealerships that had only American based cars to sell were dying a slow death with no inventory on the lot that anyone wanted to buy.

My new 2022 ICE Camry, fully loaded and roughly the same size as my Impala, had a sticker on it of roughly $30,000. After the trade in on the Cruise, with the tax included, I wrote a check out for about $25,000 (I pay cash for all my cars).

The bottom line is there is no way I would pay $47, $48, or $55 thousand dollars for an Electric vehicle when I have to drive the number of miles I have to drive. Many times in bitterly cold weather. All I hear from people with EVs are complaints that they are junk, and they have to be constantly charged.

Cracks me up when the only EVs I see at those charging stations on the turnpike are ones on the back of flatbeds that have to be towed because they ran out of juice. After listening to those guys I talked to in the new car Dealerships I visited, I find that $47 thousand dollar average new car price very deceiving. Not that it’s wrong, but that it’s because people are either being forced into buying used junk, or an astronomically expensive EV.

Hint to anyone wanting to buy an affordable new vehicle and not wanting to wait 8 months for it. Go to the foreign based new car dealerships. Avoid the GMs, Fords, and Chrysler’s. They are all dying a slow death with no inventory. Biden is killing them. Really feel bad for those guys.
EVs are 2% of the market so your theory that the average sale price of new cars is being driven way up by EVs doesn’t hold water. All you have to do is look at the price of a new Ford F-150 (most popular vehicle in the US) with a mid-tier trim kit to see why the average price of a new car is $47k.
 
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NewEra 2014

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Jan 3, 2014
2,489
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The average new car purchase price in the US
is $47k. My first EV was $48k before the $7k tax rebate. That was 4 years ago. My second was $55k - no rebate. My net fuel savings compared to my last gas car is about $2800 per year, per car and my maintenance savings is about $400 per car, per year. I locked in my electric rate for 3 years so I can budget my fuel expenses through 2025 with reasonable accuracy.
You sound like you are not very good at math. Maybe you need to buy a third EV.
 
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The Spin Meister

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Nov 27, 2012
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An altered state
EVs are 2% of the market so your theory that the average sale price of new cars is being driven way up by EVs doesn’t hold water. All you have to do is look at the price of a new Ford F-150 (most popular vehicle in the US) with a mid-tier trim kit to see why the average price of a new car is $47k.
Yep, the average price is distorted by huge pickups and SUVs. Also sports cars like Mustangs, Cameros, and foreign machines. The huge problem is that the well off that buy these things aren’t subject to inflation like the people that buy the used cars and lower priced new vehicles. So EVs are way out off target to 80% of the car buying public.

And even if they were affordable to a large majority there is no way in hell to start making 10-15 million per year in any of the next five years. It would take a WWII type commitment and that still wouldn’t work because just about everything is foreign based now.

So anyone saying that EVs are the answer is either misinformed or dishonest.
 

BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
442
475
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Yep, the average price is distorted by huge pickups and SUVs. Also sports cars like Mustangs, Cameros, and foreign machines. The huge problem is that the well off that buy these things aren’t subject to inflation like the people that buy the used cars and lower priced new vehicles. So EVs are way out off target to 80% of the car buying public.

And even if they were affordable to a large majority there is no way in hell to start making 10-15 million per year in any of the next five years. It would take a WWII type commitment and that still wouldn’t work because just about everything is foreign based now.

So anyone saying that EVs are the answer is either misinformed or dishonest.
The Chevy Bolt EUV is $35k and the Hyundai Ioniq 5 is $40k with a $7k rebate. When you factor in fuel savings these fit within the vast majority of budgets. Current projections have about 1/3 of new car sales being EVs in 5 years which will make a meaningful dent in gas demand. Fifteen years from now, people will look back at our economic dependence on insanely unstable global oil markets and be thankful that technological advancements have balanced our energy mix.
 

The Spin Meister

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2012
23,593
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An altered state
The Chevy Bolt EUV is $35k and the Hyundai Ioniq 5 is $40k with a $7k rebate. When you factor in fuel savings these fit within the vast majority of budgets. Current projections have about 1/3 of new car sales being EVs in 5 years which will make a meaningful dent in gas demand. Fifteen years from now, people will look back at our economic dependence on insanely unstable global oil markets and be thankful that technological advancements have balanced our energy mix.
If 33% of new car sales are EVs in just five years the cost of its materials will skyrocket. There are already shortages of nearly all minerals used in their manufacture. And opening new mines and getting them refined and shipped will come at a huge cost. And it will take years just to get the mines operational.
 
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Delco Lion

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Feb 16, 2017
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Chadds Ford, PA
If 33% of new car sales are EVs in just five years the cost of its materials will skyrocket. There are already shortages of nearly all minerals used in their manufacture. And opening new mines and getting them refined and shipped will come at a huge cost. And it will take years just to get the mines operational.
I don’t understand why realistic goals of say, 15 to 20 years to switch to all EV cars can’t be implemented??
 

BringBackStoneys

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Aug 14, 2001
442
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If 33% of new car sales are EVs in just five years the cost of its materials will skyrocket. There are already shortages of nearly all minerals used in their manufacture. And opening new mines and getting them refined and shipped will come at a huge cost. And it will take years just to get the mines operational.
That’s incredible insight - I don’t think anyone had considered that before. I’ll bet GM, Volvo, Jag, Mercedes, Lexus, and Cadillac wish they had talked to you before committing to going electric.
 

BUFFALO LION

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Oct 4, 2001
12,267
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EVs are 2% of the market so your theory that the average sale price of new cars is being driven way up by EVs doesn’t hold water. All you have to do is look at the price of a new Ford F-150 (most popular vehicle in the US) with a mid-tier trim kit to see why the average price of a new car is $47k.

That’s a freakin pick up truck!! 🙂🙂🙂

I love farmers, but most of us don’t live on a freakin farm. No way am I going to pay $47, 000 thousand dollars for a freakin pick up truck. If I lived on a farm, maybe, because it would be practical, and I probably wouldn’t have to worry about driving it more than 10 or 20 miles at a time. Especially if I lived in a warm part of the country.

Cracked me up when one of my neighbors bragged about getting an electric push lawn mower. Cost about three times what mine did. When I asked him about the small 16 inch wide cut, he blew it off. After he found out he had to recharge it every 30 minutes while trying to mow an acre of land, he returned it. 🙂🙂🙂🙂
 

Cletus11

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Aug 8, 2003
11,774
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That’s incredible insight - I don’t think anyone had considered that before. I’ll bet GM, Volvo, Jag, Mercedes, Lexus, and Cadillac wish they had talked to you before committing to going electric.
it is actually reality. And those companies making 'announcement's doesn't mean it automatically becomes true. The supply chain issues are very, very real. The battery supply for all these cars is very real. These car companies know this but they are not going to announce to the politicians this is the case as this goes against the agenda. I mean we are talking about baby's not having food right now and that was 100% known by anybody with a brain when you shut down the biggest baby food factory for months on end, and yet it still occurred.

So your statement holds no water.
 

BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
442
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it is actually reality. And those companies making 'announcement's doesn't mean it automatically becomes true. The supply chain issues are very, very real. The battery supply for all these cars is very real. These car companies know this but they are not going to announce to the politicians this is the case as this goes against the agenda. I mean we are talking about baby's not having food right now and that was 100% known by anybody with a brain when you shut down the biggest baby food factory for months on end, and yet it still occurred.

So your statement holds no water.
Mineral supply constraints have been baked into every EV adoption estimate for the past decade and sales have consistently beat estimates. Tweaks to battery chemistries have engineered out a significant portion of rare minerals and that will continue. At the same time, the major automakers started investing heavily in battery supply chains around 2016/17 and it’s now paying off.

EVs were about 5% of US sales in Q1 of 2022. An estimate of 1/3 EVs in 2027 is very realistic.
 

Cletus11

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Aug 8, 2003
11,774
8,152
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Mineral supply constraints have been baked into every EV adoption estimate for the past decade and sales have consistently beat estimates. Tweaks to battery chemistries have engineered out a significant portion of rare minerals and that will continue. At the same time, the major automakers started investing heavily in battery supply chains around 2016/17 and it’s now paying off.

EVs were about 5% of US sales in Q1 of 2022. An estimate of 1/3 EVs in 2027 is very realistic.
by 2027, 25-33% of sales being EV's isn't crazy but is still a stretch. But nobody baked into their EV adoption estimate Covid, Supply Chain craziness, war in Ukraine, and a greatly worsening relationship with China. All those go against being able to support that quantity of production of cars.

The massive infrasctructure required as well for all the charging stations required needs to be factored in. Talking Hundreds of Billions of dollars that will need to be spent on electrical grid infrastructure upgrades and charging stations. These are things that will prevent the mass scale adoption of EV no matter how many people say it will come true. If those people are not believing in science and engineering, that is there issue. But the facts still remain the same and science will win.
 

BringBackStoneys

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Aug 14, 2001
442
475
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by 2027, 25-33% of sales being EV's isn't crazy but is still a stretch. But nobody baked into their EV adoption estimate Covid, Supply Chain craziness, war in Ukraine, and a greatly worsening relationship with China. All those go against being able to support that quantity of production of cars.

The massive infrasctructure required as well for all the charging stations required needs to be factored in. Talking Hundreds of Billions of dollars that will need to be spent on electrical grid infrastructure upgrades and charging stations. These are things that will prevent the mass scale adoption of EV no matter how many people say it will come true. If those people are not believing in science and engineering, that is there issue. But the facts still remain the same and science will win.
Oh science is already winning. In Norway, EVs represent 85% of all new car sales and their grid is doing fine - it turns out putting a clothes drier receptacle in your garage and charging overnight during non-peak hours isn’t a big deal.
Yes, it will take some time to get the charging infrastructure in place for metro areas, but car ownership rates and commuting mileage is much lower for city folk.
 

Cletus11

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Aug 8, 2003
11,774
8,152
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Oh science is already winning. In Norway, EVs represent 85% of all new car sales and their grid is doing fine - it turns out putting a clothes drier receptacle in your garage and charging overnight during non-peak hours isn’t a big deal.
Yes, it will take some time to get the charging infrastructure in place for metro areas, but car ownership rates and commuting mileage is much lower for city folk.
Is this the same Norway that has 5 million people and has a large government wealth fund that allows them to do about anything they want? Poor comparision.
 

BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
442
475
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Is this the same Norway that has 5 million people and has a large government wealth fund that allows them to do about anything they want? Poor comparision.
The point is that mass adoption happened extremely quickly- with little time to do upgrades - and it was a non-issue.
 

Cletus11

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Aug 8, 2003
11,774
8,152
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The point is that mass adoption happened extremely quickly- with little time to do upgrades - and it was a non-issue.
If Norway were a state in the USA they would be akin to South Carolina and tied for the 23rd largest state. Whole lot easy to do things on the small scale in a very rich country in Europe where they don't drive a huge amount to begin with. If you don't think that there are going to be large issues in the USA in the electrical infrastructure to put in millions of chargers both in homes and public areas then that is your opinion.
 

PSUPride1

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Apr 24, 2003
12,672
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Oh science is already winning. In Norway, EVs represent 85% of all new car sales and their grid is doing fine - it turns out putting a clothes drier receptacle in your garage and charging overnight during non-peak hours isn’t a big deal.
Yes, it will take some time to get the charging infrastructure in place for metro areas, but car ownership rates and commuting mileage is much lower for city folk.
How do you feel about progressives taking over the democratic party. Are you ok with more radical progressives wanting to abolish the police. I know Republicans are far from perfect but abolishing law enforcement is certainly an interesting policy choice. Smh
 
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BringBackStoneys

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Aug 14, 2001
442
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How do you feel about progressives taking over the democratic party. Are you ok with more radical progressives wanting to abolish the police. I know Republicans are far from perfect but abolishing law enforcement is certainly an interesting policy choice. Smh
Yawn. Tucker and Hannity sure know how to wind you up. The 4 or 5 ‘defund the police’ politicians have no clout and no path to advance legislation. I am more concerned about the party that is totally cool with stealing the electoral college by substituting fake electors.
 

PSUPride1

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Apr 24, 2003
12,672
12,875
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Yawn. Tucker and Hannity sure know how to wind you up. The 4 or 5 ‘defund the police’ politicians have no clout and no path to advance legislation. I am more concerned about the party that is totally cool with stealing the electoral college by substituting fake electors.
Four or five. The liberal cesspool cities have a lot more than that. Hell, AOC is a hero of progressives and she wants to abolish police and prisons. That would be fun. Bad enough having Soros funding do-nothing DAs.
And voting is another fun topic. You folks would allow a ham sandwich to vote if you could.
 

fastlax16

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Jan 1, 2014
6,968
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Thanks.

I find that “average new car purchase price” VERY hard to believe even though a quick google search says that is the case. Don’t have the time right now to dig into those numbers, but my guess is that that inflated number includes EV vehicles like yours which drive those averages WAY up.

I just bought a brand new 2022 Toyota Camry in April. I haven’t bought a USED car since the mid 70s. I buy a new car every 3 years and currently have four. Two Camrys, an Impala, and a Chrysler Pacifica (which I affectionately call the limo) 🙂.

The reason I bought the new Camry was because when I tried to trade in my current Pacifica (which is a fantastic vehicle) for a new one, they told me (after I was able to find the only salesman still working there) I would have to order it and wait up to 8 months for delivery. When I said screw that, he said they had lots of new Kias available on their adjacent lot. He said everyone seems to have new Foreign based vehicles available.

Not feeling like looking at Kias that day, I thanked him and told him maybe I would come back some other time.

I still wanted to replace one of my older cars with a new one, so after walking into numerous dealerships which used to jump all over me as soon as I walked through the door, I soon came to realize that the GM, Chrysler, and Ford dealerships had all become ghost towns. I literally had to yell “IS ANYBODY HERE” in some of them, or go into the garage to find someone.

The Chrysler salesman I first talked to was right. When I would get someone at one of the other Dealerships, they pretty much all told me to a man that Biden was screwing them and forcing them to sell Electric cars. The component excuse was all bullish!t because the foreign based cars all seemed to be coming through just fine.

When I would go into the Foreign based dealerships like Kia or Toyota, they were getting in a new load of new cars every week. Having already owned a 2016 Toyota Camry that I really like, and wanting to get rid of my 2015 Chevy Cruise, I decided to buy another Camry which I had my choice of to replace my Cruise.

New car Dealerships that had access to foreign based models were selling new cars like hot cakes. Dealerships that had only American based cars to sell were dying a slow death with no inventory on the lot that anyone wanted to buy.

My new 2022 ICE Camry, fully loaded and roughly the same size as my Impala, had a sticker on it of roughly $30,000. After the trade in on the Cruise, with the tax included, I wrote a check out for about $25,000 (I pay cash for all my cars).

The bottom line is there is no way I would pay $47, $48, or $55 thousand dollars for an Electric vehicle when I have to drive the number of miles I have to drive. Many times in bitterly cold weather. All I hear from people with EVs are complaints that they are junk, and they have to be constantly charged.

Cracks me up when the only EVs I see at those charging stations on the turnpike are ones on the back of flatbeds that have to be towed because they ran out of juice. After listening to those guys I talked to in the new car Dealerships I visited, I find that $47 thousand dollar average new car price very deceiving. Not that it’s wrong, but that it’s because people are either being forced into buying used junk, or an astronomically expensive EV.

Hint to anyone wanting to buy an affordable new vehicle and not wanting to wait 8 months for it. Go to the foreign based new car dealerships. Avoid the GMs, Fords, and Chrysler’s. They are all dying a slow death with no inventory. Biden is killing them. Really feel bad for those guys.

Gotta love a good anecdotal story.

Humble bragging on a Camry purchase is a new one. If your Camry had a sticker of 30k it is very very far from fully loaded considering you can option them up to 40. So there's 10k in options out there you didn't spring for (excluding dealer installed goodies).

New car prices don't reflect "used car junk" as anything used is surprisingly not considered new and isn't calculated.

Foreign brands are having just as many supply issues as domestic. It all depends on the model you want. You're lucky you wanted a Camry and didn't have your heart set on a 4runner TRD Pro. Most brands have something new you can find.

Ford Escapes aren't difficult to find, there are more new ones listed (6100) on Autotrader than Camrys (4300). There are twice as many Ford Escapes (6100) as Civics (2800) and nearly twice as many as Accords (3100).

Jeep has almost as many Cherokees (4100) listed as there are Camrys, twice as many Grand Cherokees (8900) and Wranglers (9300) and almost twice as many Compasses (7900).

Chrysler has nothing because at the moment Chrysler has almost no models. The 300 is ancient and basically a stodgy looking Dodge Charger. Dodge has 5600 Chargers.

Chevy has 10,000 Equinoxes.

What I find incredible looking at this is how few Civics and Accords are available (Biden's fault?)

Meanwhile the new car I was hoping to pick up this summer has become a summer 2024 purchase. 23 new ones listed nationally and all are sold or marked up 10,000+ over sticker. It's foreign and stickers for less than the new car average, even when its actually loaded.
 
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BringBackStoneys

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Aug 14, 2001
442
475
1
my favorite part was Biden making car salesman sell EVs on empty lots. Blaming everyone else is the GOP’s favorite pass-time. Remember when 1/3 of Louisiana Republicans blamed Obama for the shite Katrina response - which occurred 3 years before he was elected?

Gotta love a good anecdotal story.

Humble bragging on a Camry purchase is a new one. If your Camry had a sticker of 30k it is very very far from fully loaded considering you can option them up to 40. So there's 10k in options out there you didn't spring for (excluding dealer installed goodies).

New car prices don't reflect "used car junk" as anything used is surprisingly not considered new and isn't calculated.

Foreign brands are having just as many supply issues as domestic. It all depends on the model you want. You're lucky you wanted a Camry and didn't have your heart set on a 4runner TRD Pro. Most brands have something new you can find.

Ford Escapes aren't difficult to find, there are more new ones listed (6100) on Autotrader than Camrys (4300). There are twice as many Ford Escapes (6100) as Civics (2800) and nearly twice as many as Accords (3100).

Jeep has almost as many Cherokees (4100) listed as there are Camrys, twice as many Grand Cherokees (8900) and almost twice as many Compasses (7900).

Chrysler has nothing because at the moment Chrysler has almost no models. The 300 is ancient and basically a stodgy looking Dodge Charger. Dodge has 5600 Chargers.

Chevy has 10,000 Equinoxes.

What I find incredible looking at this is how few Civics and Accords are available (Biden's fault?)

Meanwhile the new car I was hoping to pick up this summer has become a summer 2024 purchase. 23 new ones listed nationally and all are sold or marked up 10,000+ over sticker. It's foreign and stickers for less than the new car average, even when its actually loaded.
Gotta love a good anecdotal story.

Humble bragging on a Camry purchase is a new one. If your Camry had a sticker of 30k it is very very far from fully loaded considering you can option them up to 40. So there's 10k in options out there you didn't spring for (excluding dealer installed goodies).

New car prices don't reflect "used car junk" as anything used is surprisingly not considered new and isn't calculated.

Foreign brands are having just as many supply issues as domestic. It all depends on the model you want. You're lucky you wanted a Camry and didn't have your heart set on a 4runner TRD Pro. Most brands have something new you can find.

Ford Escapes aren't difficult to find, there are more new ones listed (6100) on Autotrader than Camrys (4300). There are twice as many Ford Escapes (6100) as Civics (2800) and nearly twice as many as Accords (3100).

Jeep has almost as many Cherokees (4100) listed as there are Camrys, twice as many Grand Cherokees (8900) and almost twice as many Compasses (7900).

Chrysler has nothing because at the moment Chrysler has almost no models. The 300 is ancient and basically a stodgy looking Dodge Charger. Dodge has 5600 Chargers.

Chevy has 10,000 Equinoxes.

What I find incredible looking at this is how few Civics and Accords are available (Biden's fault?)

Meanwhile the new car I was hoping to pick up this summer has become a summer 2024 purchase. 23 new ones listed nationally and all are sold or marked up 10,000+ over sticker. It's foreign and stickers for less than the new car average, even when its actually loaded.
my favorite part was Biden making car salesman sell EVs on empty lots. Blaming everyone else is the GOP’s favorite pass-time. Remember when 1/3 of Louisiana Republicans blamed Obama for the shite Katrina response - which occurred 3 years before he was elected?
 

fastlax16

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2014
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my favorite part was Biden making car salesman sell EVs on empty lots. Blaming everyone else is the GOP’s favorite pass-time. Remember when 1/3 of Louisiana Republicans blamed Obama for the shite Katrina response - which occurred 3 years before he was elected?
Expensive EVs that are selling in high enough volume to drag the average new sale price upward significantly.
 

The Spin Meister

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2012
23,593
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An altered state
Gotta love a good anecdotal story.

Humble bragging on a Camry purchase is a new one. If your Camry had a sticker of 30k it is very very far from fully loaded considering you can option them up to 40. So there's 10k in options out there you didn't spring for (excluding dealer installed goodies).

New car prices don't reflect "used car junk" as anything used is surprisingly not considered new and isn't calculated.

Foreign brands are having just as many supply issues as domestic. It all depends on the model you want. You're lucky you wanted a Camry and didn't have your heart set on a 4runner TRD Pro. Most brands have something new you can find.

Ford Escapes aren't difficult to find, there are more new ones listed (6100) on Autotrader than Camrys (4300). There are twice as many Ford Escapes (6100) as Civics (2800) and nearly twice as many as Accords (3100).

Jeep has almost as many Cherokees (4100) listed as there are Camrys, twice as many Grand Cherokees (8900) and Wranglers (9300) and almost twice as many Compasses (7900).

Chrysler has nothing because at the moment Chrysler has almost no models. The 300 is ancient and basically a stodgy looking Dodge Charger. Dodge has 5600 Chargers.

Chevy has 10,000 Equinoxes.

What I find incredible looking at this is how few Civics and Accords are available (Biden's fault?)

Meanwhile the new car I was hoping to pick up this summer has become a summer 2024 purchase. 23 new ones listed nationally and all are sold or marked up 10,000+ over sticker. It's foreign and stickers for less than the new car average, even when its actually loaded.
Must be a Mazda.
 

tlbakernc

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Sep 10, 2019
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Mooresville NC
2 weeks into Russia's invasion of Ukraine I pulled money out of my 401k and 457 funds. Put everything into cash accounts earning 1% - 3% interest. The DOW was at 34,200 when I pulled out. My 401k was down about 12.5% for the year. I got lucky, guessing it would be down over 25% or more had I stayed in. Waiting for the S&P to hit 3200 or lower before getting back in. My biggest concern is China going to war with Taiwan. Outside shot this happens this year. After that calms down I’ll jump back into market.
 
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BUFFALO LION

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Oct 4, 2001
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Gotta love a good anecdotal story.

Humble bragging on a Camry purchase is a new one. If your Camry had a sticker of 30k it is very very far from fully loaded considering you can option them up to 40. So there's 10k in options out there you didn't spring for (excluding dealer installed goodies).

New car prices don't reflect "used car junk" as anything used is surprisingly not considered new and isn't calculated.

Foreign brands are having just as many supply issues as domestic. It all depends on the model you want. You're lucky you wanted a Camry and didn't have your heart set on a 4runner TRD Pro. Most brands have something new you can find.

Ford Escapes aren't difficult to find, there are more new ones listed (6100) on Autotrader than Camrys (4300). There are twice as many Ford Escapes (6100) as Civics (2800) and nearly twice as many as Accords (3100).

Jeep has almost as many Cherokees (4100) listed as there are Camrys, twice as many Grand Cherokees (8900) and Wranglers (9300) and almost twice as many Compasses (7900).

Chrysler has nothing because at the moment Chrysler has almost no models. The 300 is ancient and basically a stodgy looking Dodge Charger. Dodge has 5600 Chargers.

Chevy has 10,000 Equinoxes.

What I find incredible looking at this is how few Civics and Accords are available (Biden's fault?)

Meanwhile the new car I was hoping to pick up this summer has become a summer 2024 purchase. 23 new ones listed nationally and all are sold or marked up 10,000+ over sticker. It's foreign and stickers for less than the new car average, even when its actually loaded.

No “bragging”. Just fact. You’re admitting yourself you have to wait two years for a new car. Screw that.

Why would I pay $10 thousand dollars more for a freakin Camry than I have to???? Heck, the thing drives itself. 🙂 First car I ever had that does that. What the crap is worth $10 thousand additional freakin dollars that I don’t already have on it????

And you’re right about the Jeep’s. Jeeps everywhere. You know why??? No one wants them. The same guy I mentioned I talked to at the Chrysler Dealership told me they can’t give those things away.

I’m obviously not including used cars in the average new car price. I thought most would be astute enough to figure that out. I’m saying that the average new car prices are inflated, because the only ones available are ones that are priced astronomically high.

If you go to most American car Dealerships, and you want to buy an affordable NEW car now, many people will have to buy a buy a used one, or none at all. The once normally affordable ICE new car inventory at most Dealerships is non-existent. That’s what all these salesmen are complaining about.
 

fastlax16

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2014
6,968
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No “bragging”. Just fact. You’re admitting yourself you have to wait two years for a new car. Screw that.

Why would I pay $10 thousand dollars more for a freakin Camry than I have to???? Heck, the thing drives itself. 🙂 First car I ever had that does that. What the crap is worth $10 thousand additional freakin dollars that I don’t already have on it????

And you’re right about the Jeep’s. Jeeps everywhere. You know why??? No one wants them. The same guy I mentioned I talked to at the Chrysler Dealership told me they can’t give those things away.

I’m obviously not including used cars in the average new car price. I thought most would be astute enough to figure that out. I’m saying that the average new car prices are inflated, because the only ones available are ones that are priced astronomically high.

If you go to most American car Dealerships, and you want to buy an affordable NEW car now, many people will have to buy a buy a used one, or none at all. The once normally affordable ICE new car inventory at most Dealerships is non-existent. That’s what all these salesmen are complaining about.

I don't have to wait two years for a new car but I'm not driving a Camry. Screw that. It's a second vehicle I can wait to buy something I want.

The Chrysler salesmen that bitched to you are either idiots or you made it up. Chrysler has 2 vehicles. 2 and neither all that affordable. The 300 starts at 34 and jumps into the 40s pretty quickly with options and then the Pacifica which starts at 37. If you work for a brand that makes two vehicles, neither of which is desirable then I can see that not being a great work experience.

American cars are hard to find because American car companies have gone all in on SUVs. Outside of Cadillac no one has multiple sedans. Ford doesn't make any. Lincoln doesn't. Chevy only has the Malibu. Chrysler only makes the 300 which is ancient and they've put more resources into the Dodge and Jeep brands. Dodge only has the Charger. Overall Chrysler's idea of innovation the last few years has been answering the question, can we fit a hellcat motor in it? Biden ****ed over Chrysler by forcing them to go green yet they have a 700+HP engine option available in every single Dodge model and they even shoehorned a 392 hemi into the wrangler (which is absolutely impossible to find).

All of the American companies have thousands of the boring bread and butter SUVs available. At least as many as your boring bread and butter japanese midsize sedan.

As for the rest, do you even read what you write?

My new 2022 ICE Camry, fully loaded and roughly the same size as my Impala, had a sticker on it of roughly $30,000. After the trade in on the Cruise, with the tax included, I wrote a check out for about $25,000 (I pay cash for all my cars).

So your definition of fully loaded is not in fact fully loaded. 10 grand worth of options left on the table is very much not fully loaded most would say.

Dealerships I visited, I find that $47 thousand dollar average new car price very deceiving. Not that it’s wrong, but that it’s because people are either being forced into buying used junk, or an astronomically expensive EV.

You actually said the average new car price is deceiving because it includes used junk. Your words not mine. You're not astute enough to understand what you write apparently. Are you saying it doesn't include used junk now?

Hint to anyone wanting to buy an affordable new vehicle and not wanting to wait 8 months for it. Go to the foreign based new car dealerships. Avoid the GMs, Fords, and Chrysler’s.

Go foreign unless you want a civic or an accord or a vw, or a popular foreign SUV, then you'll probably have a long wait.
 
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SLUPSU

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Aug 5, 2018
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Expensive EVs that are selling in high enough volume to drag the average new sale price upward significantly.

BEV sales have 3.2% of the US market in 2021, a drop in the bucket, there's no way their price has much impact on the overall average price.
 
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LafayetteBear

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Dec 1, 2009
47,004
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Four or five. The liberal cesspool cities have a lot more than that. Hell, AOC is a hero of progressives and she wants to abolish police and prisons. That would be fun. Bad enough having Soros funding do-nothing DAs.
And voting is another fun topic. You folks would allow a ham sandwich to vote if you could.
So you started with your concern about inflation but, as we all suspected, the full panoply of standard RWNJ dogma has made its way into your posts as they have continued in this thread. "The godless communists are abolishing not just the police but prisons. " "Lefties would allow a ham sandwich to vote" (Never mind that you have no (read: zero) evidence of voting fraud, and even your Orange Guru's closest advisers and relatives told him the #STOPTHESTEAL tales where just so much "bullshit." You even wheeled out George Soros. Well done. 🙋‍♂️ 🙋‍♂️
 

PSUPride1

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Apr 24, 2003
12,672
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So you started with your concern about inflation but, as we all suspected, the full panoply of standard RWNJ dogma has made its way into your posts as they have continued in this thread. "The godless communists are abolishing not just the police but prisons. " "Lefties would allow a ham sandwich to vote" (Never mind that you have no (read: zero) evidence of voting fraud, and even your Orange Guru's closest advisers and relatives told him the #STOPTHESTEAL tales where just so much "bullshit." You even wheeled out George Soros. Well done. 🙋‍♂️ 🙋‍♂️
Do we not have Democrats that identify as democratic socialists? Sorry but as biden.says about Republicans this isn't your grandfather's democratic party.
 

The Spin Meister

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2012
23,593
26,894
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An altered state
Salon! Seriously? What a hack article written for people with no critical logic skills.
It was one paragraph with no context.
Didn’t post the questions asked.
And it was basically just one question without explanation.
And it was written in 2013...eight years after the storm.

Could it be that people were angry that Obama didn’t do more? Maybe the help stopped after FEMA left? Maybe there were huge delays in getting more aid? Maybe the red tape was prohibitive? Maybe the amount of aid was insufficient?

Nope.....in your feeble, elitist mind hobbled by bias, prejudice and hatred.....it could only be those stupid redneck Neanderthals.
 
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