OT: Have you changed habits or plans due to runaway inflation, record gas prices, or collapsing stock market?

Have you changed habits or plans?

  • No. Same standard of living. I'm fine.

    Votes: 29 28.4%
  • No. Same standard of living, but taking a financial hit to do so.

    Votes: 18 17.6%
  • No. Same standard of living but running up debt to make it happen.

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Yes, somewhat tightened the belt.

    Votes: 26 25.5%
  • Yes, playing it cautious until things calm down.

    Votes: 25 24.5%
  • Yes, I've experienced significant negative changes in how I live

    Votes: 8 7.8%

  • Total voters
    102

Cletus11

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2003
11,774
8,152
1
I would say now that tightening belt a little while at the same time taking the financial hit in the short term. So basically do the easy things to minimize spend by just taking the time now cancel things that we don't use (which should have already done but this gave impetus to actually do it), not buying some luxury type items, thinking about purchasing as do I really need this now, etc...but not actively not buying things that I need solely due to inflation.
 

Cletus11

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2003
11,774
8,152
1
I am putting odds at about 98% chance we are going to have a recession. I think this Q2 will be basically GDP at 0 or real close. Only thing moving the country along is the large backlog of construction projects in progress due to the huge boom in 2021 coming out of covid that is pushing into this year. I think Q3 and Q4 is where things start to really take a downturn as that construction ends and the huge inflation numbers really start to dig in hard. I think 2023 Q1/Q2 are going to be the bottom and some hard times.

What I am having trouble figuring out is how do we get out of a recession. I don't see oil prices coming down which is a main driver. And we have a huge supply issue that is not tied directly to demand but due to the screwed up supply chain in many sectors. And that supply chain mess is going to take years to unwind in some areas (as lead times on some items are already 12-18 months out). I think all of 2023 is going to be down due to that supply chain problem and trying to unwind it even with a much weaker demand side.
 

bcspsu

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2001
649
1,308
1
I am putting odds at about 98% chance we are going to have a recession. I think this Q2 will be basically GDP at 0 or real close. Only thing moving the country along is the large backlog of construction projects in progress due to the huge boom in 2021 coming out of covid that is pushing into this year. I think Q3 and Q4 is where things start to really take a downturn as that construction ends and the huge inflation numbers really start to dig in hard. I think 2023 Q1/Q2 are going to be the bottom and some hard times.

What I am having trouble figuring out is how do we get out of a recession. I don't see oil prices coming down which is a main driver. And we have a huge supply issue that is not tied directly to demand but due to the screwed up supply chain in many sectors. And that supply chain mess is going to take years to unwind in some areas (as lead times on some items are already 12-18 months out). I think all of 2023 is going to be down due to that supply chain problem and trying to unwind it even with a much weaker demand side.
Almost all of this intentionally was self-inflicted, and was avoidable. The only good thing is that the radicals who are pulling the strings of the puppet who is the current President have played their hand, and the country now sees what a disaster it has been.

By the way, you're talking about a recession. This country will be fortunate if it just a recession. I easily could see a depression.
 

Cletus11

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2003
11,774
8,152
1
Almost all of this intentionally was self-inflicted, and was avoidable. The only good thing is that the radicals who are pulling the strings of the puppet who is the current President have played their hand, and the country now sees what a disaster it has been.

By the way, you're talking about a recession. This country will be fortunate if it just a recession. I easily could see a depression.
Yes, Fed was way, way late on raising interest rates. Should have started back a year ago. And the huge spending plan was all about Dems putting out a plan for their pet projects and was not required to push the economy as the economy was already in great shape coming out of covid. and to be non-partisan, Trump didn't need the huge spending plan he put forth either, that should have been much smaller. And then there was no reason to keep extending the enhanced unemployment benefits for as long as they did when business are screaming they need workers but the government was literally paying people to stay at home.

And if we in USA told O&G companies to drill baby drill, oil would be under $100 a barrell in 2 weeks on pure speculation being gone. Gas would be back down to under $4.00 by end of summer.

As for the length and depth of recession, i share your concern. If there is another hiccup in the semi-conductor world then we are in big trouble, world wide type deep recession with many countries in depression. I would also say Covid is a wildcard. With this latest spike, we are again seeing a large amount of people testing positive and that means more worker shortages as people need to stay home for a week. And if China continues with the Zero Covid policy and there continues to be massive weeks long shutdowns over there, that will continue to create large issues.
 

bcspsu

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2001
649
1,308
1
Yes, Fed was way, way late on raising interest rates. Should have started back a year ago. And the huge spending plan was all about Dems putting out a plan for their pet projects and was not required to push the economy as the economy was already in great shape coming out of covid. and to be non-partisan, Trump didn't need the huge spending plan he put forth either, that should have been much smaller. And then there was no reason to keep extending the enhanced unemployment benefits for as long as they did when business are screaming they need workers but the government was literally paying people to stay at home.

And if we in USA told O&G companies to drill baby drill, oil would be under $100 a barrell in 2 weeks on pure speculation being gone. Gas would be back down to under $4.00 by end of summer.

As for the length and depth of recession, i share your concern. If there is another hiccup in the semi-conductor world then we are in big trouble, world wide type deep recession with many countries in depression. I would also say Covid is a wildcard. With this latest spike, we are again seeing a large amount of people testing positive and that means more worker shortages as people need to stay home for a week. And if China continues with the Zero Covid policy and there continues to be massive weeks long shutdowns over there, that will continue to create large issues.
The previous administration definitely made mistakes in their reaction to the virus two years ago; in hindsight, it also injected too much money into the economy, which effectively made the dollar worth less. However, the economy was fine in January 2021 even after what happened the previous year.

The difference is the people who really are calling the shots now, and it's definitely not the current President, intentionally want to destroy the fabric of this country so that they can "reimagine" it; it's de facto seditious behavior.
 

PSUPride1

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2003
12,672
12,876
1
The previous administration definitely made mistakes in their reaction to the virus two years ago; in hindsight, it also injected too much money into the economy, which effectively made the dollar worth less. However, the economy was fine in January 2021 even after what happened the previous year.

The difference is the people who really are calling the shots now, and it's definitely not the current President, intentionally want to destroy the fabric of this country so that they can "reimagine" it; it's de facto seditious behavior.
Agreed. The disgrace of these wannabe socialists like AOC is that while they want open borders they are either to ignorant or arrogant or both to understand.most of these immigrants are fleeing dumpster fire socialist countries.
These progressives are disgusting.mental cases. They destroy everything they touch and the American people better wake up.
And people with kids better start educating them to the disaster that is socialism. Start paying attention to your schools and colleges. Your country and children's.future depend on your vigilance.
 

Online Persona

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2022
337
1,097
1
I'm sorry but it's just getting crazy now. The DOW is on it's way to losing 1000 points today and that's not out of the ordinary. The NASDAQ is staring down another 5% loss on the day which is becoming a fairly regular thing. Went to the grocery store and only bought half our normal grocery trip and it was almost $200. I look around and gas is about $5 everywhere and oil is about the only thing trading up today.

My next question, when does stop? When does this insanity stop? It's a nuisance to me but literally tens of millions of Americans are trying to figure out how to feed their families.
 

PSUPride1

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2003
12,672
12,876
1
I'm sorry but it's just getting crazy now. The DOW is on it's way to losing 1000 points today and that's not out of the ordinary. The NASDAQ is staring down another 5% loss on the day which is becoming a fairly regular thing. Went to the grocery store and only bought half our normal grocery trip and it was almost $200. I look around and gas is about $5 everywhere and oil is about the only thing trading up today.

My next question, when does stop? When does this insanity stop? It's a nuisance to me but literally tens of millions of Americans are trying to figure out how to feed their families.
This is what happens when socialists jerk around with our economy.
 

bcspsu

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2001
649
1,308
1
I'm sorry but it's just getting crazy now. The DOW is on it's way to losing 1000 points today and that's not out of the ordinary. The NASDAQ is staring down another 5% loss on the day which is becoming a fairly regular thing. Went to the grocery store and only bought half our normal grocery trip and it was almost $200. I look around and gas is about $5 everywhere and oil is about the only thing trading up today.

My next question, when does stop? When does this insanity stop? It's a nuisance to me but literally tens of millions of Americans are trying to figure out how to feed their families.
Elections do have consequences.
 

Wallace Breen

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2016
1,582
992
1
We need another option. Biggest personal impact is that I have two kids in college. Instead of extending their PA529 plans, I am emptying them for room/board/tuition/books this rather than trying to make them last another two while their value is at the their highest. Otherwise, I have a fairly conservative investment plan for retirement given my retirement plans. I drive a fuel efficient vehicle so that isn't much of an impact.
 

Woodpecker

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
18,283
11,221
1
I moved to Costa Rica.
Have second home in Canada.
So, none of the above.
Do you not experience higher prices of goods and services there or are you not affected by by them? Do you not have investments that are affected by the US stock markets?
 

northwoods

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2001
7,531
1,734
1
To think that we still have 2 1/2 more years of this disaster and intentional destruction of this country. It will take a decade if not more to repair the damage that has been done by this current administration in basically every facet of American life.
As an Independent, I don't disagree with much of what you say, but what equally scares me is the thought of Donald Trump returning as President. I hope the Republican party has the courage to "move on" without him. I think he is a loathsome, disgusting, lying, egomaniac and a poor excuse for a human being (who is also totally devoid of character). My absolute nightmare is Trump vs. Harris. I might join my fellow poster on this thread in Canada and/or Costa Rica if it boils down to that choice.
 
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northwoods

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2001
7,531
1,734
1
Yes, Fed was way, way late on raising interest rates. Should have started back a year ago. And the huge spending plan was all about Dems putting out a plan for their pet projects and was not required to push the economy as the economy was already in great shape coming out of covid. and to be non-partisan, Trump didn't need the huge spending plan he put forth either, that should have been much smaller. And then there was no reason to keep extending the enhanced unemployment benefits for as long as they did when business are screaming they need workers but the government was literally paying people to stay at home.

And if we in USA told O&G companies to drill baby drill, oil would be under $100 a barrell in 2 weeks on pure speculation being gone. Gas would be back down to under $4.00 by end of summer.

As for the length and depth of recession, i share your concern. If there is another hiccup in the semi-conductor world then we are in big trouble, world wide type deep recession with many countries in depression. I would also say Covid is a wildcard. With this latest spike, we are again seeing a large amount of people testing positive and that means more worker shortages as people need to stay home for a week. And if China continues with the Zero Covid policy and there continues to be massive weeks long shutdowns over there, that will continue to create large issues.
Curious if you have children or grandchildren? Dig baby dig, burn baby burn, frack baby frack would probably have some short term benefits, but at a tremendous future expense. The majority of Americans oppose drilling in National Parks and offshore. Climate change is real --- do we screw things up even more for generations to follow? I hope not --- they are already going to inherit an unsustainable national debt and a very shaky social security system.
 
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Online Persona

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2022
337
1,097
1
Curious if you have children or grandchildren? Dig baby dig, burn baby burn, frack baby frack would probably have some short term benefits, but at a tremendous future expense. The majority of Americans oppose drilling in National Parks and offshore. Climate change is real --- do we screw things up even more for generations to follow? I hope not --- they are already going to inherit an unsustainable national debt and a very shaky social security system.
Which date are you tracking for end of the world? I get confused with all of the doomsday predictions, particularly those we've already passed. I was set on the frozen future of 1970s global cooling and then switched over to 1990s global warming but this global climate change seems to have all of the bases covered. Climate just has to change....like it has.....for the last 3.5 billion years of life on earth including times when there was 1000x more atmospheric CO2.

I'm just looking for when we should tell the current teenagers when their world will end if the US doesn't do xyz while China and India do whatever the heck they want. Maybe we can covid boost the immune systems out of them and not have to worry about it?
 

WaylonJ

Well-Known Member
Mar 25, 2021
545
703
1
I have children. I don't care to see them grow up in poverty living hand to mouth from the government because we turned off the lights and the motors without having a viable alternative ready to go. I'm all for green energy but it has to be phased in and proven usable in real world applications, not wishful thinking and fantasy, sitting around going broke waiting for some idealistic miracle. Let's get it figured out before we willingly, deliberately impoverish the world and watch society turn into rubble. There are still people here in this reality who have to survive and flourish if the future is going to be anything worth having. But then again, it's really not about all that. It's how much fraud and deceit the pols can get away with to effectively line their own pockets.
 

The Spin Meister

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2012
23,598
26,902
1
An altered state
Curious if you have children or grandchildren? Dig baby dig, burn baby burn, frack baby frack would probably have some short term benefits, but at a tremendous future expense. The majority of Americans oppose drilling in National Parks and offshore. Climate change is real --- do we screw things up even more for generations to follow? I hope not --- they are already going to inherit an unsustainable national debt and a very shaky social security system.
Wow, amazing how much wrong in so little space.

Dig........we need to open some massive mining sites to get all the copper, nickel, lithium, molybdenum, titanium, and other minerals needed to build tens of thousand of wind mills and millions of solar panels.

Frack......do you know we are the only country that has exceeded the CO2 reduction goals established by thecParis Climate Accords? That we are getting close to the goals of 2030 while China and India are building some 500 coal plants?

National Parks. .......No oil wells have been drilled in any AFAIK. And no permits to do so or leases let.

Offshore......Have drilling them for many decades and have one major incident in about thirty years. And there is some serious evidence that oil extraction has reduced natural seepage that has been ongoing for thousands of years.

If they were serious about global warming nat gas and nuclear would have been pushed for at least a decade. Coal for electrical generation could have been totally replaced by now.
 

Little J

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2001
624
742
1
My change is to vote a straight republican ticket. Time to get these progressive minded dems on the sideline. They are an abomination of ideals and antics. I am done with them. The orange hair guy does not seem so bad now. I Aligned with many of his policies but not his approach. Then again did the guy ever get a fair shake from the reporters who were hell bent on burying him? He may not be a fan fave but he did not deserve the slander. In the end it only perpetuated the madness.
 

GregInPitt

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
13,217
9,372
1
Wow, amazing how much wrong in so little space.

Dig........we need to open some massive mining sites to get all the copper, nickel, lithium, molybdenum, titanium, and other minerals needed to build tens of thousand of wind mills and millions of solar panels.

Frack......do you know we are the only country that has exceeded the CO2 reduction goals established by thecParis Climate Accords? That we are getting close to the goals of 2030 while China and India are building some 500 coal plants?

National Parks. .......No oil wells have been drilled in any AFAIK. And no permits to do so or leases let.

Offshore......Have drilling them for many decades and have one major incident in about thirty years. And there is some serious evidence that oil extraction has reduced natural seepage that has been ongoing for thousands of years.

If they were serious about global warming nat gas and nuclear would have been pushed for at least a decade. Coal for electrical generation could have been totally replaced by now.
Yep, the negative environmental impact of the mining it will take to build up "green" electric generating capacity outweighs the benefits in replacing NG generated electricity. Especially for the mega batteries being proposed to even out supply from wind and solar.

And if the U.S. government chooses to get serious in reducing the dirtiest fossil fuels it would start by jumping into the development of the new generation of nuclear plants. Nuclear plants are somewhat expensive by the standards of responsible government spending, but cheap by the standards of the wasteful money printing of the past 2 years. The next POTUS should step up and broker a plan to finance and permit 20-30 of the Westinghouse AP1000 nuclear plants, placing them strategically across the country based upon demand and suitable locations. As stupid as the French are, they seem to be the only one's that figured out that nuclear power is the cleanest, most environmentally friendly way to maintain the standard of living we all love for the long term.

But even if there was a plan in progress to generate a big percentage of U.S. electricity by nuclear power, which there is not, the current administration needs to figure out that what is needed now is more supply of oil and NG. Blaming the oil companies for not drilling when they have been prevented from doing so is beyond stupid and won't win any votes anyway. Someone on TV today stated that the big oil pipeline in Alaska has a 2 million barrel/day capacity but is currently running at 400K barrel/day. Not only won't the administration support the fossil fuel infrastructure needed going forward, they won't work with the oil companies to optimize what currently exists. Biden should be trying to work with the oil companies, not sending stupid letters to the CEO of Exxon that make him look even more foolish than he is, if that's possible.......

If you watch Kudlow, who seems to effortlessly dissect the current economic issues, he keeps saying there is hope because the cavalry is coming after next November's elections. But we need change for the better, not just change. And will a Republican congress really have the leverage to successfully battle the woke children that run the Biden administration who seem to double down on stupidity at every chance? Who knows.......
 
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BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
442
475
1
Two electric cars and a diversified investment portfolio - we’re doing just fine.

On the stock market: Anyone with a clue knew that the rooster would come home to roost when Trump pulled every stimulus lever known to man even though he inherited an extremely strong economy. If you challenged an president to do everything imaginable to create a stock market bubble - this is what you would you do: massive tax cuts (permanent for corporations, temporary for the middle class) leading to record corporate stock buy-backs, massive spending/record debt, fed interest rate suppression, incessant cheerleading after every new high - it was the ultimate pump-and- dump by the self-described “king of debt”.

On inflation and gas: EVERY INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD NOW HAS RECORD HIGH INFLATION AND GAS PRICES. It’s a result of global supply chain issues resulting from COVID and Russian oil sanctions. Full stop.

But Biden (tapped US oil reserves at record levels while having anti-price gauging legislatation shut down by Republicans), AOC and drag shows are the real problem- right?
 

Online Persona

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2022
337
1,097
1
Two electric cars and a diversified investment portfolio - we’re doing just fine.

On the stock market: Anyone with a clue knew that the rooster would come home to roost when Trump pulled every stimulus lever known to man even though he inherited an extremely strong economy. If you challenged an president to do everything imaginable to create a stock market bubble - this is what you would you do: massive tax cuts (permanent for corporations, temporary for the middle class) leading to record corporate stock buy-backs, massive spending/record debt, fed interest rate suppression, incessant cheerleading after every new high - it was the ultimate pump-and- dump by the self-described “king of debt”.

On inflation and gas: EVERY INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD NOW HAS RECORD HIGH INFLATION AND GAS PRICES. It’s a result of global supply chain issues resulting from COVID and Russian oil sanctions. Full stop.

But Biden (tapped US oil reserves at record levels while having anti-price gauging legislatation shut down by Republicans), AOC and drag shows are the real problem- right?
Wow, nice revisionist history there.

Obama economic results were very modest. It was one of the weakest recoveries on record and was aided by near zero fed funds rate (0.25 for 7 years straight, then a bump to 0.5) and massive quantitative easing for many years in many phases The modest and seriously propped up growth did keep inflation low. In 2016 when QE finally ended, GDP declined to only 1.7% and inflation was 0.7%. It looked as though we were headed back into recession as Obama left office. Gas and oil prices did begin to deflate before Obama left office because they were about $4 (sounds pretty good right now) for most of his administration.

Trump inherited that declining GDP and increasing Fed funds rate and declining gas and oil although inflation did triple to 2.1% before he took office. In 2017 GDP was 35% better than Obama's last year despite the fed funds rate doubling. In 2018, his GDP jumped again to 3% despite the fed funds rate jumping yet again to 2.5%. In 2019 the fed learned that putting the breaks on the Trump economic expansion was premature and growth slowed to 2.3% while they eventually had to back off of the feds fund rate a bit to 1.75%. Then Democrat governors shut everything down for healthy working aged adults and kids of low risk groups for a year plus destroying the economy in 2020. The Fed dropped their funds rate back to 0.25% and Trump began pushing covid relief funds and the fed started increasing the money supply to avert the democrat governors attempt to crash everything. Trump turned over a very strong rebound in the economy when he left office. Maybe he wanted more recovery money than needed but seriously we were looking at an economy with half the states shut down by democrats for an unprecedented length of time. It wasn't the time to skimp on relief. And inflation was still very low and gas prices were $2.10 national average.

Biden rode the Trump recovery to a great first year GDP but ignored inflation increasing to 7% by the end of his first year. I'm sorry, he didn't ignore inflation, he threw fuel on the fire after it was very clear that inflation was becoming a problem. Trillions more in relief, the fed sitting on their hands with the fed funds rate remaining almost zero, all while GDP growth, gas and oil prices, and inflation were heating up. They told us inflation was transitory remember? Then claimed it was a good thing. Then they said it peaked months ago. Well, it's still increasing, gas is $5 now, and the fed finally is trying to get serious about the fed funds rate to tame inflation so the market is completely collapsing. All indices are now worse than when the democrats took over control of the white house, senate, and house. The NASDAQ is down over 20% from inauguration day.

Worse yet, tens of millions of Americans have been driven into poverty this year alone! But you have 2 electric cars so not like you care about them right? Screw the tens of millions of Americans that aren't sure where that next meal comes from right? Your democrat policies are getting rammed through and no more mean tweets. Plus you can always use revisionist history to blame it all on the bad man that turned over a strong economic rebound and low inflation to your tribe. Just make sure you don't take any responsibility for voting for what is occurring now. That fragile ego needs a safe space.
 

BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
442
475
1
Wow, nice revisionist history there.

Obama economic results were very modest. It was one of the weakest recoveries on record and was aided by near zero fed funds rate (0.25 for 7 years straight, then a bump to 0.5) and massive quantitative easing for many years in many phases The modest and seriously propped up growth did keep inflation low. In 2016 when QE finally ended, GDP declined to only 1.7% and inflation was 0.7%. It looked as though we were headed back into recession as Obama left office. Gas and oil prices did begin to deflate before Obama left office because they were about $4 (sounds pretty good right now) for most of his administration.

Trump inherited that declining GDP and increasing Fed funds rate and declining gas and oil although inflation did triple to 2.1% before he took office. In 2017 GDP was 35% better than Obama's last year despite the fed funds rate doubling. In 2018, his GDP jumped again to 3% despite the fed funds rate jumping yet again to 2.5%. In 2019 the fed learned that putting the breaks on the Trump economic expansion was premature and growth slowed to 2.3% while they eventually had to back off of the feds fund rate a bit to 1.75%. Then Democrat governors shut everything down for healthy working aged adults and kids of low risk groups for a year plus destroying the economy in 2020. The Fed dropped their funds rate back to 0.25% and Trump began pushing covid relief funds and the fed started increasing the money supply to avert the democrat governors attempt to crash everything. Trump turned over a very strong rebound in the economy when he left office. Maybe he wanted more recovery money than needed but seriously we were looking at an economy with half the states shut down by democrats for an unprecedented length of time. It wasn't the time to skimp on relief. And inflation was still very low and gas prices were $2.10 national average.

Biden rode the Trump recovery to a great first year GDP but ignored inflation increasing to 7% by the end of his first year. I'm sorry, he didn't ignore inflation, he threw fuel on the fire after it was very clear that inflation was becoming a problem. Trillions more in relief, the fed sitting on their hands with the fed funds rate remaining almost zero, all while GDP growth, gas and oil prices, and inflation were heating up. They told us inflation was transitory remember? Then claimed it was a good thing. Then they said it peaked months ago. Well, it's still increasing, gas is $5 now, and the fed finally is trying to get serious about the fed funds rate to tame inflation so the market is completely collapsing. All indices are now worse than when the democrats took over control of the white house, senate, and house. The NASDAQ is down over 20% from inauguration day.

Worse yet, tens of millions of Americans have been driven into poverty this year alone! But you have 2 electric cars so not like you care about them right? Screw the tens of millions of Americans that aren't sure where that next meal comes from right? Your democrat policies are getting rammed through and no more mean tweets. Plus you can always use revisionist history to blame it all on the bad man that turned over a strong economic rebound and low inflation to your tribe. Just make sure you don't take any responsibility for voting for what is occurring now. That fragile ego needs a safe space.
Amongst your rambling you failed to explain why every other industrialized country in the world is having record high inflation and gas prices. And it’s funny - we don’t hear Republicans citing data about deficits and unemployment any more. I wonder why?
 

bcspsu

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2001
649
1,308
1
Amongst your rambling you failed to explain why every other industrialized country in the world is having record high inflation and gas prices. And it’s funny - we don’t hear Republicans citing data about deficits and unemployment any more. I wonder why?
I don't care about every other country; I live in this country and the current administration's policies, by any measure, have been disastrous, and that's not a partisan statement. This is a country that has all of the resources to be totally self-sufficient regarding energy, yet the current President is going to go to Saudi Arabia with his hand in hand to beg for more petroleum production. I would say that that is unbelievable, yet it's totally believable with the current administration.
 

bcspsu

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2001
649
1,308
1
Two electric cars and a diversified investment portfolio - we’re doing just fine.

On the stock market: Anyone with a clue knew that the rooster would come home to roost when Trump pulled every stimulus lever known to man even though he inherited an extremely strong economy. If you challenged an president to do everything imaginable to create a stock market bubble - this is what you would you do: massive tax cuts (permanent for corporations, temporary for the middle class) leading to record corporate stock buy-backs, massive spending/record debt, fed interest rate suppression, incessant cheerleading after every new high - it was the ultimate pump-and- dump by the self-described “king of debt”.

On inflation and gas: EVERY INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD NOW HAS RECORD HIGH INFLATION AND GAS PRICES. It’s a result of global supply chain issues resulting from COVID and Russian oil sanctions. Full stop.

But Biden (tapped US oil reserves at record levels while having anti-price gauging legislatation shut down by Republicans), AOC and drag shows are the real problem- right?
You sound like the Senator from Michigan last week who basically was throwing it in the faces of Americans who don't have electric cars about how she was able to drive from Michigan to DC in her electric car without having to spend money on gas. Talk about being totally out of touch with the common people. That's the kind of talk and attitude that have sparked revolutions throughout history; it's equivalent to the "Let them eat cake" attitude of Marie Antoinette, and we all know how that ended.
 

BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
442
475
1
I don't care about every other country; I live in this country and the current administration's policies, by any measure, have been disastrous, and that's not a partisan statement. This is a country that has all of the resources to be totally self-sufficient regarding energy, yet the current President is going to go to Saudi Arabia with his hand in hand to beg for more petroleum production. I would say that that is unbelievable, yet it's totally believable with the current administration.
You all bought into the myth that the US can run it’s economy on oil and still be energy independent. Being a net exporter at times means nothing. Oil will always be global, fungible commodity and presidents will continue to have little control over gas prices - short of full communist style nationalization of our domestic oil companies.
 

BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
442
475
1
You sound like the Senator from Michigan last week who basically was throwing it in the faces of Americans who don't have electric cars about how she was able to drive from Michigan to DC in her electric car without having to spend money on gas. Talk about being totally out of touch with the common people. That's the kind of talk and attitude that have sparked revolutions throughout history; it's equivalent to the "Let them eat cake" attitude of Marie Antoinette, and we all know how that ended.
This thread literally asked if we changed habits because of gas prices. I don’t buy gas - what do you want me to do, lie? And you can shove your elitist smears up your ass. My EVs were the first new cars I purchased in my life. Some of us did the math and decided that going away from gas was a sound financial decision.
 

Waste Management Consultant

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2019
1,115
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Wow, amazing how much wrong in so little space.

Dig........we need to open some massive mining sites to get all the copper, nickel, lithium, molybdenum, titanium, and other minerals needed to build tens of thousand of wind mills and millions of solar panels.

Frack......do you know we are the only country that has exceeded the CO2 reduction goals established by thecParis Climate Accords? That we are getting close to the goals of 2030 while China and India are building some 500 coal plants?

National Parks. .......No oil wells have been drilled in any AFAIK. And no permits to do so or leases let.

Offshore......Have drilling them for many decades and have one major incident in about thirty years. And there is some serious evidence that oil extraction has reduced natural seepage that has been ongoing for thousands of years.

If they were serious about global warming nat gas and nuclear would have been pushed for at least a decade. Coal for electrical generation could have been totally replaced by now.
There were also hundreds of coal fired power plants that were retrofitted with millions in upgrades with scrubbers and carbon sequestration systems only to be shut down a few years later by the EPA.
 

Online Persona

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2022
337
1,097
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Amongst your rambling you failed to explain why every other industrialized country in the world is having record high inflation and gas prices. And it’s funny - we don’t hear Republicans citing data about deficits and unemployment any more. I wonder why?
So you cannot disagree with my factual historical account of

1. Obama's weak recovery
2. Trump's strong economy
3. Followed by a democrat governor induced shut down
4. Followed by a strong Trump rebound
5. Followed by Biden economic insanity and malpractice

Therefore you want to avoid those points and expand the discussion in a different direction to other democrat talking points as if ALL countries are experiencing high inflation (false) and the US economy is not leading (as it has for decades).

If you want to discuss employment, let me know when there are as many employed in the US as prior to your democrat governors extended shutdowns. Also, why is wage growth lower with 8.6% inflation then it was under Trump with only 2% inflation? Then when you have finished discussing those pieces of the employment picture, tell us some about the massive numbers of newly announced layoffs https:/www.businessinsider.com/layoffs-sweeping-the-us-these-are-the-companies-making-cuts-2022-5?op=1#compass-450-employees-1
 

BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
442
475
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So you cannot disagree with my factual historical account of

1. Obama's weak recovery
2. Trump's strong economy
3. Followed by a democrat governor induced shut down
4. Followed by a strong Trump rebound
5. Followed by Biden economic insanity and malpractice

Therefore you want to avoid those points and expand the discussion in a different direction to other democrat talking points as if ALL countries are experiencing high inflation (false) and the US economy is not leading (as it has for decades).

If you want to discuss employment, let me know when there are as many employed in the US as prior to your democrat governors extended shutdowns. Also, why is wage growth lower with 8.6% inflation then it was under Trump with only 2% inflation? Then when you have finished discussing those pieces of the employment picture, tell us some about the massive numbers of newly announced layoffs https:/www.businessinsider.com/layoffs-sweeping-the-us-these-are-the-companies-making-cuts-2022-5?op=1#compass-450-employees-1
Obama’s economy and Trump’s economy were essentially the same - Trump had slightly better GDP, Obama had better jobs data. Trump pushed through a completely unnecessary corporate tax cut, claimed it would pay for itself through 4% GDP (do you remember that whopper?) when in actuality it created a stock market bubble through buy-backs.

But are you really going to deny that gas prices and inflation are not currently a global phenomenon? If you are that committed to cherry picking…
 

The Spin Meister

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2012
23,598
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An altered state
Obama’s economy and Trump’s economy were essentially the same - Trump had slightly better GDP, Obama had better jobs data. Trump pushed through a completely unnecessary corporate tax cut, claimed it would pay for itself through 4% GDP (do you remember that whopper?) when in actuality it created a stock market bubble through buy-backs.

But are you really going to deny that gas prices and inflation are not currently a global phenomenon? If you are that committed to cherry picking…
The Fed raised rates several times in consecutive meetings just as the Trump economy picked up but has refused to do so for Biden until this week. And the Trump tax cuts stimulated growth that rsulted in record revenue for the federal government. It was high spending that caused the deficits.

And you keep ignoring other posts pointing out that both China and Japan have much lower inflation. In fact most of Europe....in spite of the war and its resultant energy crisis there.....has lower inflation rates than the US.
 
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BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
442
475
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Th eFed raised rates several times in consecutive meetings just as the Trump economy picked up but has refused to dos o for Biden until this week. And the Trump tax cuts stimulated growth that rsulted in record revenue for the federal government. It was high spending that caused the deficits.

And you keep ignoring other posts pointing out that both China and Japan have much lower inflation. In fact most of Europe....in spite of the wat and its resultant energy crisis there.....has lower inflation rates than the US.
China is benefiting from the Russia oil dump while it manipulates its CPI bag to say whatever they want. Terrible comparison. Japan has been battling deflation for years and is having record inflation in spite of having a negative GDP last quarter.

Inflation is a global issue right now - not a US issue - though we have more exposure than some due to our high dependence on oil markets.
 

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