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- Thread starter Nittany Ned2
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My theory on stress is lack of things to be stressed about makes stress worse.
People in the US have it so easy they develop stress.
All the side effects, obesity, drug use, are all products of lack of true things to worry about.
It is truly becoming an epidemic.
I know people who won't drive without a GPS.. to school.
I can't imagine what they would do if they were asked to drive with a map.
No Phd yet, but maybe soon!
LdN
Agree. Idle hands.....
People are no longer working on a day in and out basis to survive. I am always amused by housewives/husbands sit in their house and obsess with something like a wrinkle in a rug. It drives them nuts. If they were hungry of cold, they wouldn't think twice about it. It is so easy and acceptable to sit on a sofa, eat ice cream, and watch the view. Type A people always talk about needing a good run or workout: the reason why is because he it "grounds" them to Maslows Hierarchy of Needs.
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Our culture is infected with greed. The average American can’t think for themself and buys into the shit fed by corporate america, big healthcare and the media. Very few people are truly content and happy. We are taught to want more, demand more and buy more. It’s capitalism baby. If the market doesn’t grow, then everything falls apart.
I agree, but i could make the same arguments about government, political groups, envy.
Fact is it still goes back to lack of real things to worry about.
LdN
Interesting theory. I would like to add two more items to your thesis:
- Division of the classes. My dad was in management at US Steel for almost 40 years. We grew up across the street from a family where the dad worked in "the pits" at the same US Steel factory and there was no discernible difference in quality of life. With the reduction in domestic manufacturing and unions (or at least their power) it is much more difficult for white collar and blue collar to maintain an equivalent standard of living. This leads to despair which can lead to the other issues mentioned in the video.
- The affect media has in the U.S. today. It seems like they always have to make us worry about something either apocalyptic or at least near apocalyptic. Global warming, climate shift, species becoming extinct, nuclear war with North Korea, nuclear war between India and Pakistan, the Chinese, the Russians, o-zone ... whatever the latest doom-and-gloom there is at the moment. Is the earth in worse shape now than it was 100 years ago? Of course it is. Is the world going to end in the next week, month, year, decade, century? I seriously, seriously doubt it.
Excellent points, Joe. The media is all about ratings. To get high ratings they exaggerate every news story. We were a lot better off when the only TV news coverage was a half hour per night on the 3 networks. The 24-7 news stations have to compete and have to fill their air time. They do this by exaggerating and hyping every news story.
Also agree...good points. I'd add that media is 7x24x365. You think the Kardashians are normalized and that you are deficient if you don't drive a Lambo. At the same time, kids are on snapchat and see friends making a once-in-a-lifetime trip to some exotic place. Next week, it is a different friend. They believe everyone is having a perfect life except them. its like this board, everyone gets piled into categories when we are, in fact, quite different people. Social media hasn't been rationalized yet and is causing problems.
I agree, DeNittany. This is probably the best time to be alive in the USA. Life is easy compared to any other time. Think what it was like to live during the Civil War with your friends, neighbors, and loved ones being killed every day. Think about WW1 and WW2. What about the depression. Life was hard. People are whining today because they basically have too much time on their hands and have too much stuff to play with. They don't get the sense of accomplishment and satisfaction that comes with hard work and rising to a challenge. Life is just too easy.
LOL. No need. They already know everything.
All of this is a big reason I want to sell most of my stuff, buy a RV / pickup truck and live in that year round, but in different locations. I have no interest in stressing out over mortgages, car payments, cord cutting, etc. for the rest of my time on earth.
Agree. I once was having a bad day and was yelling at my wife and daughter. Later, I wondered why I was in such a bad mood. After some soul searching, I realized it was because I noticed a taillight in my car had burned out. I like my cars so it made me mad. But I had to laugh...99% of people would trade places with me in a NY heartbeat. Its all relative.
No. I didnt say I did. I was making a point about stress and this seemed like a good location.
LdN
West coast summers, southeast in the winters...with some stops in the Rockies on the way back and fourth, but nahhh, I haven't thought about that. I just have 17 or so years left of raising kids.
Again Dr. Joeparules, I agree with your premise but I don't agree with your point. The classes are less divided today than at any point in history. Which feeds into your second point... the media. The media has created a make believe world where we have one group of people living on yachts and another toiling away at work.
It isn't true. People with wealth are almost always tireless workers. Perhaps with the exception of the 0.0001% but even then. People like to rip on the Kardashians... I bet her work schedule, including sitting in a chair for makeup and flights everywhere and constant cameras, is more than almost anyone would take.
The classes aren't that divided. They just appear that way.
LdN
Completely agree about the social media point and would definitely add it to the list of reasons. I find myself seeing friends on FB doing these amazing vacations and wondering why I'm not. Part of it is my own laziness/cheapness, but a big part is trying to get my younger daughter through college and little savings at this point putting two of them through.
In our house we call these "first world problems", but yeah we stress over the smallest things now.
No kids for me. And I might have to leave the wife behind because she is 7 years younger and isn't interested in camping. I really don't mind being alone. And my younger brother lives in a nice area of CA that I'd probably spend my summers. I'll be 53 in a few months. I'm thinking I'll semi retire at 60 (work from "home" if allowed) and pick up some part time work at Starbucks or somewhere else that offers benefits and opportunities to move around.
totally agree. We've been taught to achieve. When not achieving, in whatever that means to you, you grow unattached and useless. Volunteerism is a great way to stay grounded. We've also been taught to consume, in our uber capitalist society. And, relative to your priorities of college, most people on vacation would give their eye teeth to have kids again and feel that connectedness. I am happy that one week on vaca, but the week after, not so much. I am trying to enjoy the journey, more than the destination, more.
I guess I should clarify what I consider a bigger division of classes. Although it hasn't changed drastically over the past 20 years or so, there are fewer people considered "middle class" and move "haves" and "have nots" in America today then when I grew up in "the good old days". My in-laws have a shore house in Avalon they plan on selling and there is NO WAY I can afford to buy it from them despite making a decent salary. Their neighbor in Avalon told me about a hedge fund manager buying a $2.3 million house there with his bonus check. Talk about depressing!
I guess I should clarify what I consider a bigger division of classes. Although it hasn't changed drastically over the past 20 years or so, there are fewer people considered "middle class" and move "haves" and "have nots" in America today then when I grew up in "the good old days". My in-laws have a shore house in Avalon they plan on selling and there is NO WAY I can afford to buy it from them despite making a decent salary. Their neighbor in Avalon told me about a hedge fund manager buying a $2.3 million house there with his bonus check. Talk about depressing!
Well there are more people in the country today then back then. However, a "have not" today has about 1000 things a "have" didn't have in the days you are referring to.
For example, a beach house in Avalon back in the day probably had no AC. The kitchen was a two burner... maybe the home wasn't insulated... many weren't.
The "have" didn't have AC in their car, regular trips to Europe and Disney.
A family vacation was likely a drive to Florida.
Our lower middle class goes out to restaurants three to five times a week. Mostly eats prepared foods. Etc.
The erosion of the middle class, in my opinion, is that satisfaction hits at such a low income level today people do less for income. To be middle class my parents worked ~70hrs a week and raised four kids. Your average middle class family works 40hrs a week and gets 4 weeks paid vacation today.
Now that's more of an economic opinion, but it is also my Dr. LdN opinion.
Regarding real-estate... the boomers will be dying soon and R.E. will be more readily available and affordable. Unfortunately the gov't will do everything in its power to support R.E. so we won't have a true crisis.
LdN
There is good and bad stress.
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-kind-of-stress-is-good-for-you-3145055
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-kind-of-stress-is-good-for-you-3145055
Agree. Idle hands.....
I was thinking about Maslow’s hierarchy as soon as I saw this thread too. I have a background in psychology and I always thought Maslow’s theory was incomplete, or incorrect. At the very top...self-actualization....sounds very positive. But it’s the people who are at the top of the pyramid who experience clinical depression and commit suicide at the highest rates.
My theory is that when only physiological needs are being met, there’s a drive and motivation to meet your own safety needs. When those are met, there’s a drive to meet your needs of love and belonging. And so on and so on, so that your life purpose is a drive to meet your needs. But when you get to the top, and all your needs are met, you’re left without a purpose. What am I doing here? Why am I alive? Am I having an impact on the world? When you get to the top your mind is still wired to stress about things, but it stresses about mundane things or things that don’t really matter, which just confuses the situation. Why do I feel THIS way when nothing is really wrong!?
Anyways...just my thoughts.
Awesome....I always thought it just looked upside down with the basics at the top (being this highest priority). regardless, great thoughts. To me, once you've conquered things like food, water and safety they are no longer drives. When you get to esteem and actualization, you lose site of purpose and that can lead to physical harm. You probably didn't see people worried about their lipstick in a concentration camp. I always remember that SNL skit when a starving girl from Afghanistan is playing "so you want to be a millionaire". She is asked to name a prominent american disease where people stop eating until they kill themselves. And she is like "what? how effed up is that?"
Yes I did. Found it very interesting and thought provoking as I grew up in Western PA. , was there when the mills were beginning to close and moved to Florida for a job opportunity in 1982. It brought back many memories.
Replying to both of you guys. I know several kids who have de coupled with the everyday and don’t want to own the big house with the big mortgage. They also don’t seem to care if the have kids or not ( those that do are solid excellent parents, let’s see if they have the endurance ) and are by and large pretty happy.
They all work, pay their bills but pursue work with passion and the same in their spare time. They do have money worries but it doesn’t seem to overwhelm them into eating a cream pie while watching Judge Judy.
No doubt. One of my best friends has a 42ft sailboat and a conversion camper van as his two "homes". He makes a great living doing what he loves and comes from a very wealthy family, but has no real need for a home or any crazy material things. His plan is to retire at 55 and just sail around the world and do his thing. He has no kids and his girlfriend like him lives on a sail boat and live a minimalist lifestyle. I'll be heading west to hang with them this summer at the Hollywood Bowl...for Dead and Company and get some sailing in the few days prior.
That sounds relaxing. I want to get a nice toy hauler fifth wheel. I'll use the "garage" area as my fitness center and storage for kayaks, bikes and other outdoor equipment. I'll live in the front. My only real requirements are a decent sized kitchen, decent sized bathroom and a comfortable bed -- just because I'll be older and don't want it to become difficult to maneuver.
Everyone is different, of course. But I always think that there is a short game and a long game. To me, life would have been very boring without my kids and my job. I like to be challenged and feel I am making a contribution. If I am eating, sleeping, exercising, playing games and watching TV I don't think I'd be happy over the long run. In the autumn of my life, what I enjoy most is looking at historical and future accomplishments. That can be as simple as helping other people have jobs, volunteerism, parenting or lowering my golf handicap.
I've always had a very stressful job but seem to enjoy the stress rather than hate it.
i recently sat next to a young man who travels all over the world. He has a good, but not great, job and spends north of a month traveling; mostly by himself. he goes to places like Indonesia, Third World China and Pakistan (as examples). I didn't ask but he had to inherit a lot of money. So these life styles can be cool, but you have to have the money to sustain them. Not having a home or assets can come back to bite you when you are north of 67, your means of income has been eroded and you have no assets.
If you are going with a 5th wheel I don't think you'll have any trouble finding something to accommodate those needs. They are pretty massive and with slide outs now you can find one with a decent size kitchen area.
The kids I am describing are professional musicians, chefs, and farmers, engineers, teachers, robotics folks etc. They have full and productive days, none of them is a trust funder. They don’t need cable which means they also don’t need a flat screen which means they also don’t need a man cave. Those things are not important, their mountain bikes are however important.
Between work and gigs they get at least one excellent meal with some socializing every couple of days.
The ones that are parents are a little more traditional but not overboard. They are not competing with anyone for the big box house. They seem content.
I would assume at some point each of them will have a home, a couple already do.
Life expectancy is a tricky number people like to play with.
As the US becomes less white and more hispanic and african american the US life expectancy will go down (Relatively to other countries). Not because of the wealth gap, or because of access to medicine, but because of genetics.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/08/us-life-expectancy-hits-record-high/16874039/
So there are things we can do to increase the life expectancy of the US group by group... white americans have hit an all time high in 2018. But for the US as a whole the number will decrease relative to European and especially some asian countries (who have the highest genetically).
LdN
God bless them...I think it is a wonderful life choice. My biggest concern is saving for their older years. Mountain biking is awesome...but at some point, you can no longer get that thrill. At some point, you will be forced out of the business and need to live off of your assets as SS won't be enough. If they can do that, all the more power to them. However, I feel that they are living large today at the expense of their senior years. IDK, of course, just saying that this is often a consequence of that life style. Musicians, engineers, teachers and robotics people "age out".
Also have to say that this is nothing new. we used to call them hippies!
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My neighbor just took in his mom and dad. His father meticulously planned his retirement. He was going to die at 80, his wife at 85. Three things happened: they spend their savings by the time they were 80&85. When planning 30/40 years ago, they never anticipated sustained times of very low interest on investments. And being older, didn't invest in the market due to its risk. Finally, SS hasn't kept up. As a result, they are broke after living a long, productive and well planned life. Some things couldn't be anticipated. Today, on in their late 80's and the other low 90's, they moved into a house next door to their kids that was bought by their kids. Thank goodness for them, their son did very well so he could sustain them. But they are all scared to death of what may come to pass if there is a prolonged health problem.
You and I will both agree on this... so it's almost useless saying it, but the more the government tries to subsidize healthcare, the more people in the private sector with incomes will suffer.
Just like college tuition.
Just like home loans
I'm paying my own healthcare right now. It's $2400 a month (family). No health issues. That's absolutely insane.
LdN
Wow! There is a strong need for government funding for infrastructure, defense, safety, education and oversight. However, free markets are almost always better. Why? Collective people are always smarter than govts. Businesses find needs and fill them for gain and profit. If you travel in any communist or socialist countries, you will see this play out in spades.
As Joe always taught: It is a balance.
What is funny, at my age, I am at the point where pivoting to being on the govt payroll is personally advantageous. However, can't stand the thought of it for the good of the country.
