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OT: Depressing news on knowledge of the Holocaust

I was actually going to mention this. The Holocaust and the slaughter of Jews was horrible and needs to be remembered, but at least it was generally well reported. The genocide of Armenians (and Greeks and Assyrians) in the early part of the 20th century in Turkey is virtually ignored in the history books and Turkey denies it to this very day.

The behavior of Japan during WW2 is also often overlooked. Almost everywhere the Japanese invaded, they abused and murdered the local population with little conscience, a mindset rooted in notions racial superiority. They don't deny it like the Turks, but they haven't been as willing to address it as the Germans, either.
 
It’s one of the defining incidents of the 20th Century, along with Hiroshima and the moon landing, and too many people are ignorant about it. Beyond sad and disturbing.

If you are in Winnipeg Manitoba and get a chance, the Canadian Museum for Human Rights is worth a stop.

I am assuming that my connecting one of the events listed to the Nuremberg laws caused a crap storm. For that I apologize. My point in linking it was to quote the song "...To right the unrightible wrong...". We must remember such events and work toward not letting them happen again.

The Impossible Dream

Lyrics
Ream the impossible dream,
To fight the unbeatable foe,
To bear with unbearable sorrow,
To run where the brave dare not go.
To right the unrightable wrong,
To love pure and chaste from afar,
To try when your arms are too weary,
To reach the unreachable star.
This is my quest,
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless,
No matter how far.
To fight for the right
Without question or pause,
To be willing to march
Into hell for a heavenly cause.
And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest
That my heart will be peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest.
And the world will be better for this,
That one man scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage.
To fight the unbeatable foe.
To reach the unreachable star.
Source: Musixmatch
Songwriters: Leigh Mitch / Darion Joseph
The Impossible Dream lyrics © Helena Music Company, Andrew Scott Music, Helena Music Corp.
 
The behavior of Japan during WW2 is also often overlooked. Almost everywhere the Japanese invaded, they abused and murdered the local population with little conscience, a mindset rooted in notions racial superiority. They don't deny it like the Turks, but they haven't been as willing to address it as the Germans, either.

Amen! That is one memory that lingers from my visit to Germany. I really respect many Germans for that. Far from perfect, but along with South Africa, well ahead of the curve.
 
I've been to Dachau and Bergen-Belsen in Germany as well as Yad Vashem in Israel.

In Europe they have what the Germans call "Stolpersteine" (tripping stones)--raised brass plates with names and other info that you can "trip over" as a remembrance of those lost.

1024px-Stolperstein_Else_Liebermann_von_Wahlendorf_Berlin_Budapester_Strasse.jpg

Never forget.

Worth repeating! Never forget.
 
It’s one of the defining incidents of the 20th Century, along with Hiroshima and the moon landing, and too many people are ignorant about it. Beyond sad and disturbing.

All the more reason to have (and preserve) things like:

1. The State of Israel;
2. The Holocaust Museum;
3. Places like Auschwitz and Treblinka.
4. Places like Yad Vashem.
5. Schindler's List and other movies that focus on that terrible time.
 
Pol Pot is #1 on a per capita basis- I wonder the percentage of people who have even heard of him
I have two former co-workers that were in those camps and survived. Chilling to say the least.

Risking light is a movie worth the view if you get the opportunity. One of the central characters discusses forgiveness after surviving that awful chapter in history.

Movie "Risking Light"
 
How did we as a country become so ignorant.
Sad and frightening at the same time.
I have always believed that you need an informed and involved citizenry to have a functioning democracy. We have failed. Secular humanism has won.
 
Amen! That is one memory that lingers from my visit to Germany. I really respect many Germans for that. Far from perfect, but along with South Africa, well ahead of the curve.

The preservation of the places like Auschwitz (I visited a few years ago) and the memorials to the genocide in Germany are important. They show those of us who didn't live though it to see the reality of what happened and allow generations who come after to acknowledge the crimes of the past.

A tangible thing that could be done in the US is the establishment of slavery museums on old plantation sites that would allow visitors to see and understand what happened. I have no connection to Nazism other than German ancestors who came to the US in the 19th century, but my visit to Auschwitz was one of the most powerful experiences of my life. I have no connection to slavery other than shared skin color of slave owners, but I would welcome the opportunity to see it as it was.
 
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An awful lot of kids today are taught how bad the US is. They ignore WWII and Korea and start with Vietnam. Then the Gulf Wars are sold as "dead American soldiers for oil". The only time the citizenry wakes up is when we are attacked (like Pearl Harbor and 9-11.
I think it's a little more complex than that. We have a lot to be very proud of in this country, but we also have some things to be not so proud of (as an earlier poster noted, very seldom is history all good or all bad). We are a nation of tremendous accomplishments with historically great unity and many good deeds (I think "The Greatest Generation" should be required reading, so high is my respect and admiration for those who endured the Great Depression and served in World War Two). Unfortunately, we are also a nation that fostered a litany of deceit and treachery toward our Native Americans, the slavery and segregation of our Black Americans, two "landgrab" wars (Mexican - American in the late 1840's and Spanish - American in the early 1900's), suppressed labor throughout much of the first half of the 20th century, and lied to our citizens about the Vietnam debacle.

So what does history cover and what does history ignore? That's a complex issue. Overall, I am proud of our country and know that I am fortunate to live here. That said, I have no problem acknowledging our flaws, and hopefully learning from them and trying to correct them. Two things do concern me --- one is the individuals who react to any criticism of our country with a quick retort of "then get the hell out of it" (I'd answer, why not try to improve it), and the other is that I think we become even dumb and dumber if we allow the far right OR the far left to either define us or speak for us as a nation (I try to remind myself that the REAL silent majority in this country is neither --- it is the moderates who seem to have no voice in politics anymore).

I'm biased, because I have always loved history, but our younger generation's apparent lack of interest in it, and knowledge of it, is of real concern. How can you plan for, and make intelligent decisions about, the future without a good knowledge of the past?
 
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This is being done in some places. Laura Plantation in Vacherie, LA, is one.

Link
On the other hand, unfortunately, you also have the Louisiana State Penitentiary at Angola, the largest maximum security prison in the nation, which is located on a former plantation. Though I suppose that's pretty instructive, too.
 
How many people remember the Turks genocidal attack on the Armenians barely a century ago? Few know about it, it barely gets mentioned, and yet it was the blueprint for Hitler's plans.
True, and the Turks have been allowed to deny it for generations simply because they occupy a highly strategic location that everyone wants to have on their "side"
 
I think it's a little more complex than that. We have a lot to be very proud of in this country, but we also have some things to be not so proud of (as an earlier poster noted, very seldom is history all good or all bad). We are a nation of tremendous accomplishments with historically great unity and many good deeds (I think "The Greatest Generation" should be required reading, so high is my respect and admiration for those who endured the Great Depression and served in World War Two). Unfortunately, we are also a nation that fostered a litany of deceit and treachery toward our Native Americans, the slavery and segregation of our Black Americans, two "landgrab" wars (Mexican - American in the late 1840's and Spanish - American in the early 1900's), suppressed labor throughout much of the first half of the 20th century, and lied to our citizens about the Vietnam debacle.

So what does history cover and what does history ignore? That's a complex issue. Overall, I am proud of our country and know that I am fortunate to live here. That said, I have no problem acknowledging our flaws, and hopefully learning from them and trying to correct them. Two things do concern me --- one is the individuals who react to any criticism of our country with a quick retort of "then get the hell out of it" (I'd answer, why not try to improve it), and the other is that I think we become even dumb and dumber if we allow the far right OR the far left to either define us or speak for us as a nation (I try to remind myself that the REAL silent majority in this country is neither --- it is the moderates who seem to have no voice in politics anymore).

I'm biased, because I have always loved history, but our younger generation's apparent lack of interest in it, and knowledge of it, is of real concern. How can you plan for, and make intelligent decisions about, the future without a good knowledge of the past?
Great post. So many good points. The part in bold is what I think is at the heart of the some of the pain in this country. It also explains why there is much push back. One example is the Civil War. The Confederates lost the war but won the peace big time.
 
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I asked my 16 year old nephew if he had read Animal Farm in school. He had no idea what that was and lamented that he got extensive training on the importance of non-binary pronouns
 
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The generation that remembered WWII is gone, so the only people who really know about fascism and what it means are people who have read European history or WWII history.

I really think large numbers of Americans either don't know what fascism is, or they think it's really cool and that we should try it.

If there was one thing I wish people could somehow understand is that once you give up your democracy, there's no going back, at least not for a generation or two.


It’s one of the defining incidents of the 20th Century, along with Hiroshima and the moon landing, and too many people are ignorant about it. Beyond sad and disturbing.

 
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I asked my 16 year old nephew if he had read Animal Farm in school. He had no idea what that was and lamented that he got extensive training on the importance of non-binary pronouns
I read Animal Farm in 5th grade as part of Social Studies. I had a great teacher.
Any teacher who had a class read it now might get fired.
 
You could run a similar survey about any historic event and get the same results. Not surprising.
Did you ever watch those man in the street interviews? Young people recognize Ariana Grande and Kylie Jenner but not George Washington or Mike Pence. They think the U.S defeated England in the civil war.
 
The US Department of Education was established in 1979 under Carter and our public education has been in a steady decline ever since. Students now are fed 'revised' history and most have never been taught civics at either the federal or state and local levels.

Both of my daughters graduated 4.0 in HS and summa in college, yet I know far more world and US history and civics. Our public education is broken.
 
The US Department of Education was established in 1979 under Carter and our public education has been in a steady decline ever since. Students now are fed 'revised' history and most have never been taught civics at either the federal or state and local levels.

Both of my daughters graduated 4.0 in HS and summa in college, yet I know far more world and US history and civics. Our public education is broken.
100% agree. The DOE needs to be eliminated and education needs to be brought back to the locals. I see nothing in the constitution about education.

Further, school districts aren't counties (like in FL and CA). Any district that size (like Palm Beach County) is ripe for waste, fraud, and just CRAP.

School districts need to be smaller, and those elected to educate their children need to do just that, or gtfo.
 
I think it's a little more complex than that. We have a lot to be very proud of in this country, but we also have some things to be not so proud of (as an earlier poster noted, very seldom is history all good or all bad). We are a nation of tremendous accomplishments with historically great unity and many good deeds (I think "The Greatest Generation" should be required reading, so high is my respect and admiration for those who endured the Great Depression and served in World War Two). Unfortunately, we are also a nation that fostered a litany of deceit and treachery toward our Native Americans, the slavery and segregation of our Black Americans, two "landgrab" wars (Mexican - American in the late 1840's and Spanish - American in the early 1900's), suppressed labor throughout much of the first half of the 20th century, and lied to our citizens about the Vietnam debacle.

So what does history cover and what does history ignore? That's a complex issue. Overall, I am proud of our country and know that I am fortunate to live here. That said, I have no problem acknowledging our flaws, and hopefully learning from them and trying to correct them. Two things do concern me --- one is the individuals who react to any criticism of our country with a quick retort of "then get the hell out of it" (I'd answer, why not try to improve it), and the other is that I think we become even dumb and dumber if we allow the far right OR the far left to either define us or speak for us as a nation (I try to remind myself that the REAL silent majority in this country is neither --- it is the moderates who seem to have no voice in politics anymore).

I'm biased, because I have always loved history, but our younger generation's apparent lack of interest in it, and knowledge of it, is of real concern. How can you plan for, and make intelligent decisions about, the future without a good knowledge of the past?
Fantastic post.
 
100% agree. The DOE needs to be eliminated and education needs to be brought back to the locals. I see nothing in the constitution about education.

Further, school districts aren't counties (like in FL and CA). Any district that size (like Palm Beach County) is ripe for waste, fraud, and just CRAP.

School districts need to be smaller, and those elected to educate their children need to do just that, or gtfo.

States are now complicit as well. They no longer teach the English language (spelling/grammar/vocabulary/parts of speech/sentence structure) or classic literature. They've fallen into modern fractured/slang writing and "modern literature" in their place, with an influential, rather than educational slant. My daughters and I were appalled at what they had to endure at both the HS and collegiate levels. They had to 'toe the party line' for grade's sake, though they were well aware (and resentful) of the false premises behind them.

What's worse is the low level of qualification for new public school teachers. Some of my daughters' friends who were very marginal academic performers (at best) in HS and college -- have been hired as teachers back home at the local level.

Incredibly unfortunate for students and parents.
 
This headline is pretty stupid- knowing exactly how many Jews were murdered during the Holocaust isn't representative of people‘s overall sentiment toward the Holocaust. I couldn’t give you an exact number if you asked me other than that it‘s in the millions.

The real story here is the people that believe the Holocaust was caused by Jews or have not heard of it at all.

EDIT: Note that the article itself doesn’t even link the study, preventing readers from drawing conclusions about testing methods or other data collected.
 
Pol Pot is #1 on a per capita basis- I wonder the percentage of people who have even heard of him
In our school district we have a Genocide Project built in to our curriculum for 10th graders. Ukrainian gets Stalin, Cambodian hits Pol Pot, Rape of Nanjing shows Chinese as victims but the field flips when covering Mao. As many have commented, it is amazing. As for the Holocaust, it is in the project, but beyond that we have had a survivor do a full school assembly every 4 years (to not duplicate attendees), along with an optional field trip to West Chester Univ for their annual Holocaust Symposium, which is very well done. I must admit that my understanding of some genocides was not as great as it is after studying and researching through my job. In the end it is always better to have knowledge than not. Then it is up to you to make your own informed opinions. Ignorance is NOT bliss...
 
wait, what? When did that happen? I haven't seen anything on the news. There were some two seconds about middle eastern countries recognizing Israel (hello, it's 2020!).
 
I read Animal Farm in 5th grade as part of Social Studies. I had a great teacher.
Any teacher who had a class read it now might get fired.
My daughter read it in school last year as an 8th grader. Coincidentally, my wife and I had urged her to read the summer prior.
 
Not surprising ...most us citizens can't tell you where and when the battle of gettysburg was fought. Let alone know European history
 
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