OT: Another father-daughter question.

[LionJim]

My oldest, a girl, left a year ago to take a job three hours from home. She has had her struggles and hit an especially low point just the other day. She has extreme social anxiety; "fairly crippling" is how she described it to a family counselor. Our familial relationships and personal situations are such that her returning home would not bode well for any of us; we just can't live together. I drove down yesterday and the two of us agreed that a huge part of her difficulties was due to, one, issues with crappy neighbors, and, two, a lengthy and difficult commute to work. Solution: move, as her lease is up after next month. I said, to her agreement, "It's clear that it's too early for you to give up on this." Here's my question: should I instead have said, "You're not giving up on this, period?"

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

My oldest, a girl, left a year ago to take a job three hours from home. She has had her struggles and hit an especially low point just the other day. She has extreme social anxiety; "fairly crippling" is how she described it to a family counselor. Our familial relationships and personal situations are such that her returning home would not bode well for any of us; we just can't live together. I drove down yesterday and the two of us agreed that a huge part of her difficulties was due to, one, issues with crappy neighbors, and, two, a lengthy and difficult commute to work. Solution: move, as her lease is up after next month. I said, to her agreement, "It's clear that it's too early for you to give up on this." Here's my question: should I instead have said, "You're not giving up on this, period?"

Full disclosure is that I struggle with some anxiety issues myself.

As such, I can share the perspective that telling someone with anxiety what to do/how to do it can be harmful. Talking out your thoughts (all of them; even anxious/ridiculous ones) can be extremely beneficial for all involved. Basically, talk things out and let the anxious party come to their own conclusion based on facts, not emotions.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Tough call, b/c you want it to be her decision. I think you probably did the right thing. You can't order her around at this point.

Your advice seems quite sound. If she went away for college, I would guess she had similar issues with the transition. Perhaps she could be reminded that she stuck it out and overcame - and she can do it again.

Best of luck - always tough to see your kid struggle. It's hard to suppress the instinct to fix everything for them.

 

[sluggo72]

My oldest, a girl, left a year ago to take a job three hours from home. She has had her struggles and hit an especially low point just the other day. She has extreme social anxiety; "fairly crippling" is how she described it to a family counselor. Our familial relationships and personal situations are such that her returning home would not bode well for any of us; we just can't live together. I drove down yesterday and the two of us agreed that a huge part of her difficulties was due to, one, issues with crappy neighbors, and, two, a lengthy and difficult commute to work. Solution: move, as her lease is up after next month. I said, to her agreement, "It's clear that it's too early for you to give up on this." Here's my question: should I instead have said, "You're not giving up on this, period?"

to me they say the same thing. I think you left it open enough in the 'its too early to give up' comment that there can always be an out if you need one, but OTOH, what's early? 1 month? 1 year? 3 years? until you get vested in the in the 401k? I like your open ended comment better than the absolute.

 

[Connorpozlee]

If she's an adult it's her decision what she does. Anything you say- whether you demand it or not- is really nothing more than a request or recommendation.

 

[krichards]

You know her better than any of us, of course, but I think you phrased it correctly. I have a little experience with anxiety in children and one of the recommended approaches is to let the child have or at least believe that she has some role in the decisions that affect them. It appears like you have reached an agreement with her that it is too soon to give up on this, even if it was also a decision you were going to "force" on her.

 

[loosey goosey]

Cognitive behavior management /off Benzo /high blood pressure meds

 

[ILLINOISLION]

LJ, I think you did and said the right thing. She hit a low point and you went to see her. You together figured out how best to try to address the situation and try to move on. You're there for her now while at the same time helping her understand that she has to fight her battles. I hope that's what I would have done.

DISCLAIMER: I have no children so I have NO CLUE how life with children of my own would have transpired. So jumping in with my $.02 is probably not very relavent. All I can say is whatever you do and however it works out, just please don't second guess yourself.....you are a good person and doing the best you can for someone you obviously care deeply about. Life's seldom easy, no one ever gave us a game plan and there are no do-overs. Your heart is in the right place, always remember that.

 

[mrtailgate]

I think you handled well. Your gut told you the route to take and normally that first instinct is always the best. There is not much you can do other than offer support and perspective. If things would turn out poorly, you would also have some guilt.

Let us know when things are looking up. Hoping for the best for you and her.

 

[psuro]

My oldest, a girl, left a year ago to take a job three hours from home. She has had her struggles and hit an especially low point just the other day. She has extreme social anxiety; "fairly crippling" is how she described it to a family counselor. Our familial relationships and personal situations are such that her returning home would not bode well for any of us; we just can't live together. I drove down yesterday and the two of us agreed that a huge part of her difficulties was due to, one, issues with crappy neighbors, and, two, a lengthy and difficult commute to work. Solution: move, as her lease is up after next month. I said, to her agreement, "It's clear that it's too early for you to give up on this." Here's my question: should I instead have said, "You're not giving up on this, period?"

My take: Your comment was very supportive but not overbearing. The other comment was too heavy handed in my opinion

 

[katchthis]

What can we do to make this work ?
Positive statement.
Requires more than a yes no answer, so you engage in dialogue.
Asking her for solutions.

 

[91Joe95]

Quick, name the last time you were right when telling a woman what to do, whether you were right or not. You were supportive, that's all you can be.

 

[Hugh Manatee]

My oldest, a girl, left a year ago to take a job three hours from home. She has had her struggles and hit an especially low point just the other day. She has extreme social anxiety; "fairly crippling" is how she described it to a family counselor. Our familial relationships and personal situations are such that her returning home would not bode well for any of us; we just can't live together. I drove down yesterday and the two of us agreed that a huge part of her difficulties was due to, one, issues with crappy neighbors, and, two, a lengthy and difficult commute to work. Solution: move, as her lease is up after next month. I said, to her agreement, "It's clear that it's too early for you to give up on this." Here's my question: should I instead have said, "You're not giving up on this, period?"

Sounds like you handled it well. Your second option is out of the question. She's a grown woman and you can't tell her what to do, only encourage her. Obviously, you need to be supportive without holding her hand. By the way, having some social anxiety is a good thing. Having none gets you in trouble eventually. You have to stick with situations that don't demand too much.

 

[boddyebsen]

1. Move closer to work.

2. Pre-screen neighbors or have the real estate agent or whoever do it.

 

[Bob78]

My oldest, a girl, left a year ago to take a job three hours from home. She has had her struggles and hit an especially low point just the other day. She has extreme social anxiety; "fairly crippling" is how she described it to a family counselor. Our familial relationships and personal situations are such that her returning home would not bode well for any of us; we just can't live together. I drove down yesterday and the two of us agreed that a huge part of her difficulties was due to, one, issues with crappy neighbors, and, two, a lengthy and difficult commute to work. Solution: move, as her lease is up after next month. I said, to her agreement, "It's clear that it's too early for you to give up on this." Here's my question: should I instead have said, "You're not giving up on this, period?"

I think your phrasing was spot on. And breaking it down to the most probable root cause was the right approach, rather than grouping all aspects of her life into one big thing.

Sometimes, it IS the right time to give up and start over with a situation.... work, gf/bf, spouse, car, apartment/house.... and it seems to be the right time to start over on where she lives. So for her to agree to give the larger whole more time and to own whatever piece of the overall situation she should, is the right thing imo. If the move makes things better for her, she will gain confidence from having made that decision. And if that doesn't work out the way she expects, then you'll both know that was not the root cause for her low point.

Crappy neighbors and crappy commute are huge mental obstacles over the longer term for most folks. Why endure those situations when alternatives are available? I say don't invite hardships.... they'll stop by sooner or later on their own. And then fight or think through them to solve them when they do. But imo, 'giving up' is mislabled here - making a change the right call when an easy solution to improve the situation is at hand.

 

[fairgambit]

My oldest, a girl, left a year ago to take a job three hours from home. She has had her struggles and hit an especially low point just the other day. She has extreme social anxiety; "fairly crippling" is how she described it to a family counselor. Our familial relationships and personal situations are such that her returning home would not bode well for any of us; we just can't live together. I drove down yesterday and the two of us agreed that a huge part of her difficulties was due to, one, issues with crappy neighbors, and, two, a lengthy and difficult commute to work. Solution: move, as her lease is up after next month. I said, to her agreement, "It's clear that it's too early for you to give up on this." Here's my question: should I instead have said, "You're not giving up on this, period?"

Your choice of words was appropriate. Try not to overthink this. You seem to be a level headed guy. That tells me that you will generally say, or do, the right thing. I believe you did here.

 

[AWS1022]

My oldest, a girl, left a year ago to take a job three hours from home. She has had her struggles and hit an especially low point just the other day. She has extreme social anxiety; "fairly crippling" is how she described it to a family counselor. Our familial relationships and personal situations are such that her returning home would not bode well for any of us; we just can't live together. I drove down yesterday and the two of us agreed that a huge part of her difficulties was due to, one, issues with crappy neighbors, and, two, a lengthy and difficult commute to work. Solution: move, as her lease is up after next month. I said, to her agreement, "It's clear that it's too early for you to give up on this." Here's my question: should I instead have said, "You're not giving up on this, period?"

Social anxiety or not, life's too short to be miserable every day especially because of where you live or where you work. If she likes her job, move closer to work. If she's not happy in her job either, find another job.

 

[LionJim]

Thanks for your insight and friendship, everybody.

 

[LafayetteBear]

What kind of support network does she have where she lives now? Friends or family who can be of help to her? Does she have free time in which to develop some friendships? Seems like that would help a whole lot.

FWIW, I agree that you said the right things.

 

[boddyebsen]

My oldest, a girl, left a year ago to take a job three hours from home. She has had her struggles and hit an especially low point just the other day. She has extreme social anxiety; "fairly crippling" is how she described it to a family counselor. Our familial relationships and personal situations are such that her returning home would not bode well for any of us; we just can't live together. I drove down yesterday and the two of us agreed that a huge part of her difficulties was due to, one, issues with crappy neighbors, and, two, a lengthy and difficult commute to work. Solution: move, as her lease is up after next month. I said, to her agreement, "It's clear that it's too early for you to give up on this." Here's my question: should I instead have said, "You're not giving up on this, period?"

I think you handled it very well. She needs to move away from pest neighbors, with the lease up, it's time. She should move closer to work.

 

[Peetz Pool Boy]

My oldest, a girl, left a year ago to take a job three hours from home. She has had her struggles and hit an especially low point just the other day. She has extreme social anxiety; "fairly crippling" is how she described it to a family counselor. Our familial relationships and personal situations are such that her returning home would not bode well for any of us; we just can't live together. I drove down yesterday and the two of us agreed that a huge part of her difficulties was due to, one, issues with crappy neighbors, and, two, a lengthy and difficult commute to work. Solution: move, as her lease is up after next month. I said, to her agreement, "It's clear that it's too early for you to give up on this." Here's my question: should I instead have said, "You're not giving up on this, period?"

Which issue is more "stressful" ?

Long commute?
Annoying neighbors?
​

Both can and should be fixed, but the decision should be your daughter's (with you guidance, if necessary)

 

[BBrown]

My oldest, a girl, left a year ago to take a job three hours from home. She has had her struggles and hit an especially low point just the other day. She has extreme social anxiety; "fairly crippling" is how she described it to a family counselor. Our familial relationships and personal situations are such that her returning home would not bode well for any of us; we just can't live together. I drove down yesterday and the two of us agreed that a huge part of her difficulties was due to, one, issues with crappy neighbors, and, two, a lengthy and difficult commute to work. Solution: move, as her lease is up after next month. I said, to her agreement, "It's clear that it's too early for you to give up on this." Here's my question: should I instead have said, "You're not giving up on this, period?"

Absolutely not. Crappy neighbors are not good thing and can make things difficult for someone who doesn't have social anxiety issues let alone extreme ones.
Add in a lengthy and difficult commute and it could lead to something tragic happening if it continues.
I think your solution was a sound one.
That being said I do not have children but I think your advice was sound.
Good luck.

 

[MrDibbs]

LionJim...you handled this as well as a parent can. She's old enough to make her own decisions but she's still your daughter. Provide counsel, help in other ways if you can, but let her drive the decisions and actions.

 

[Obliviax]

IMHO, well played LJ. Supportive without being overt (given your relationship).

As a dad, with a daughter, I always want to "fix the problem" when my daughter just wants to rant. So I often take her comments too literally. One of my favorite books is Men are from Mars. My neighbor grabs a word is daughter uses, like "frustrating", and just repeats it to his daughter as she rants. Then, after she is ranted out, he asks is he an offer his opinion. She, of course, says yes and he gently walks through the problem offering potential solutions. The back and forth results in some good ideas that she grabs onto and executes. It takes great patience but seems to work.

Back to "Mars", this is an issue with my wife as well. She complains, I offer solutions, and she gets mad. I listen to women at the airport on their phones and see a pattern of them just ranting to friends. Its a back and forth. One rants, the other offers sympathy, then its the other woman's turn. Dudes, on the other hand, just say "fix the damn problem" and typically don't spend more than a few minutes on the phone. Its crazy and weird.

I harken back to a one-man show named "defending the caveman". If you think about it, women had to raise kids so they became hunters and gatherers. men hunt. Women, spend hours selected the best apple or berry or green. men see a rabbit and kill it, there is no time to consider "is this a good rabbit or a bad one?" Women like to outflank a problem, men use a frontal assault. We can all discuss the PC crap, but men and women approach problems differently, for the most part. No way is better, overall, just different. But men need to put away their natural "kill a rabbit" mentality and try to think like a hunter/gatherer.

 

[91Joe95]

IMHO, well played LJ. Supportive without being overt (given your relationship).

As a dad, with a daughter, I always want to "fix the problem" when my daughter just wants to rant. So I often take her comments too literally. One of my favorite books is Men are from Mars. My neighbor grabs a word is daughter uses, like "frustrating", and just repeats it to his daughter as she rants. Then, after she is ranted out, he asks is he an offer his opinion. She, of course, says yes and he gently walks through the problem offering potential solutions. The back and forth results in some good ideas that she grabs onto and executes. It takes great patience but seems to work.

Back to "Mars", this is an issue with my wife as well. She complains, I offer solutions, and she gets mad. I listen to women at the airport on their phones and see a pattern of them just ranting to friends. Its a back and forth. One rants, the other offers sympathy, then its the other woman's turn. Dudes, on the other hand, just say "fix the damn problem" and typically don't spend more than a few minutes on the phone. Its crazy and weird.

I harken back to a one-man show named "defending the caveman". If you think about it, women had to raise kids so they became hunters and gatherers. men hunt. Women, spend hours selected the best apple or berry or green. men see a rabbit and kill it, there is no time to consider "is this a good rabbit or a bad one?" Women like to outflank a problem, men use a frontal assault. We can all discuss the PC crap, but men and women approach problems differently, for the most part. No way is better, overall, just different. But men need to put away their natural "kill a rabbit" mentality and try to think like a hunter/gatherer.

 

[joeparules]

My older daughter lives and works about five hours away from us and also has anxiety issues. I think you handled it exactly how I would have.

1. Help diagnose what the issues are causing the heightened anxiety
2. Give her your opinion on what you would do to alleviate them
3. Let her formulate a plan that includes all, part or none of your advice

Too many "helicopter parents" try to solve all of their kids problems by telling them exactly what they have to do. They feel they are helping, but really it just makes their children less self-sufficient as adults.

Good job dad!

 

[kgilbert78]

 

[kgilbert78]

IMHO, well played LJ. Supportive without being overt (given your relationship).

As a dad, with a daughter, I always want to "fix the problem" when my daughter just wants to rant. So I often take her comments too literally. One of my favorite books is Men are from Mars. My neighbor grabs a word is daughter uses, like "frustrating", and just repeats it to his daughter as she rants. Then, after she is ranted out, he asks is he an offer his opinion. She, of course, says yes and he gently walks through the problem offering potential solutions. The back and forth results in some good ideas that she grabs onto and executes. It takes great patience but seems to work.

Back to "Mars", this is an issue with my wife as well. She complains, I offer solutions, and she gets mad. I listen to women at the airport on their phones and see a pattern of them just ranting to friends. Its a back and forth. One rants, the other offers sympathy, then its the other woman's turn. Dudes, on the other hand, just say "fix the damn problem" and typically don't spend more than a few minutes on the phone. Its crazy and weird.

I harken back to a one-man show named "defending the caveman". If you think about it, women had to raise kids so they became hunters and gatherers. men hunt. Women, spend hours selected the best apple or berry or green. men see a rabbit and kill it, there is no time to consider "is this a good rabbit or a bad one?" Women like to outflank a problem, men use a frontal assault. We can all discuss the PC crap, but men and women approach problems differently, for the most part. No way is better, overall, just different. But men need to put away their natural "kill a rabbit" mentality and try to think like a hunter/gatherer.

One of the (hard) lessons I learned when first married was that my wife did not want a solution--at first. She just wanted to be listened to. Drove me nuts, because I just wanted to "fix" it. But I learned that part of "fixing" it was emotional in nature--and that requited listening first.

To the OP--sounds like you handled it well.

 

[Bob78]

IMHO, well played LJ. Supportive without being overt (given your relationship).

As a dad, with a daughter, I always want to "fix the problem" when my daughter just wants to rant. So I often take her comments too literally. One of my favorite books is Men are from Mars. My neighbor grabs a word is daughter uses, like "frustrating", and just repeats it to his daughter as she rants. Then, after she is ranted out, he asks is he an offer his opinion. She, of course, says yes and he gently walks through the problem offering potential solutions. The back and forth results in some good ideas that she grabs onto and executes. It takes great patience but seems to work.

Back to "Mars", this is an issue with my wife as well. She complains, I offer solutions, and she gets mad. I listen to women at the airport on their phones and see a pattern of them just ranting to friends. Its a back and forth. One rants, the other offers sympathy, then its the other woman's turn. Dudes, on the other hand, just say "fix the damn problem" and typically don't spend more than a few minutes on the phone. Its crazy and weird.

I harken back to a one-man show named "defending the caveman". If you think about it, women had to raise kids so they became hunters and gatherers. men hunt. Women, spend hours selected the best apple or berry or green. men see a rabbit and kill it, there is no time to consider "is this a good rabbit or a bad one?" Women like to outflank a problem, men use a frontal assault. We can all discuss the PC crap, but men and women approach problems differently, for the most part. No way is better, overall, just different. But men need to put away their natural "kill a rabbit" mentality and try to think like a hunter/gatherer.

This hits close to home! I also am a fixer, but learned with my daughter that she needs to think the idea / solution is her own. I would spout out countless pearls of wisdom (well, to me anyway!) and think they fell on deaf ears. At points, sometimes years later, I would hear her use what I said almost verbatim with her friends, who then found her to be wise. When I would ask her about it, she would just laugh. So the advice and pearls do have impact, maybe not instantly, but eventually.

You're stronger than me, as I cannot or will not put away my fixer instinct for any long period of time with wifey. I have learned the hard way (many years ago) to not fix but to listen, but the 2nd time around, I call it out and barf out some ill-received advice regarding complaining more than once about a topic without taking action to get past it. Daughter accepts this better than wifey, by far.

The OP said the right things, and comes across as very supportive and caring. We all have that natural instinct to want to help and to fix when it comes to our kids. Listen and gently guide (almost subliminally!) seems to be the best approach with daughters or sons.

 

[Obliviax]

This hits close to home! I also am a fixer, but learned with my daughter that she needs to think the idea / solution is her own. I would spout out countless pearls of wisdom (well, to me anyway!) and think they fell on deaf ears. At points, sometimes years later, I would hear her use what I said almost verbatim with her friends, who then found her to be wise. When I would ask her about it, she would just laugh. So the advice and pearls do have impact, maybe not instantly, but eventually.

You're stronger than me, as I cannot or will not put away my fixer instinct for any long period of time with wifey. I have learned the hard way (many years ago) to not fix but to listen, but the 2nd time around, I call it out and barf out some ill-received advice regarding complaining more than once about a topic without taking action to get past it. Daughter accepts this better than wifey, by far.

The OP said the right things, and comes across as very supportive and caring. We all have that natural instinct to want to help and to fix when it comes to our kids. Listen and gently guide (almost subliminally!) seems to be the best approach with daughters or sons.

I didn't say I was good at it, just know that I know what to do (just don't have the patience). now I'll go back to telling Trace McS how to be a better QB.

 

[91Joe95]

One of the (hard) lessons I learned when first married was that my wife did not want a solution--at first. She just wanted to be listened to. Drove me nuts, because I just wanted to "fix" it. But I learned that part of "fixing" it was emotional in nature--and that requited listening first.

To the OP--sounds like you handled it well.

And for the uninitiated, there is a fine line between listening, and being accused of ignoring if you are too quiet. But, if you contribute too much you're interrupting or trying to solve the problem again. Of course, if you all you do is agree then you're patronizing. God forbid if you accidentally look at the time or avert your eyes out of habit.

 

[LafayetteBear]

I don't have any daughters, but I have a wife, and I have spent years trying to teach my three sons a few things that adult men need to know about in dealing with women. "Never criticize your mom's cooking." "Offer her a little unsolicited praise or thanks now and then." And, most important of all, the proper (and universal) answer to the question "Do these pants make me look fat?"

 

[UncleLar]

What you actually said is less important than what she "heard". You might think you are phrasing it in a supportive way, but she might be hearing it as a demand. I'm not sure that there's any way for you to tell the difference. Either way, good luck to her as she sorts herself out.

 

[AWS1022]

I don't have any daughters, but I have a wife, and I have spent years trying to teach my three sons a few things that adult men need to know about in dealing with women. "Never criticize your mom's cooking." "Offer her a little unsolicited praise or thanks now and then." And, most important of all, the proper (and universal) answer to the question "Do these pants make me look fat?"

And the answer is "No, your ass makes you look fat".

 

[LafayetteBear]

And the answer is "No, your ass makes you look fat".

What is your monthly alimony payment?

 

[AWS1022]

What is your monthly alimony payment?

Still married to the girl I met freshman year of college. The key is to not answer out loud...keep it in your head where it can be appreciated.