OT: About those gas prices and gouging

Lion84

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2015
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It's not really a Democratic or Republican issue for the most part it's a Politician issue. They steal from wherever they can - DRPA, Turnpike - you name it. They have zero concept of fiscal responsibility because we can just tax people more or print more money - problem solved. Funny we still have the Johnstown Flood Tax on booze sold in PA - pretty sure they are done the rebuilding by now. Blaming corporations for making money is simplistic but plays to the base - funny how is they didn't make money people wouldn't have jobs and investors wouldn't make money - they act like companies are somehow an entity unto themselves and if you punish them it won't effect anything else - so stupid.
 

BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
446
476
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There you go again making shit up when a quick google search will tell you that in 2016 the US was pumping about 8.5 MB per day which rose to about 12.8 MB per day and has fallen to 11.4 MB per day in January which is the latest stat from....wait for it.... the USEIA which is the United States Energy Information Agency.

The US (we) were energy independent in 2020 and actually sold oil and natural gas to the world market. Of course on day one of the Biden Administration, canceled the Keystone pipeline which was scheduled to be complete in 9 months (December 2021) and would be able to carry the amount that the US was buying from Russia from North Dakota and Canada at a much lower rate than what we paid to Russia which income financed the war in the Ukraine. Oil, war and defense policy are highly interrelated.

Oh and by the way, the oil and gas that is produced in North America is cleaner than the crappy stuff from Russia which pollutes more by the gallon. If you were truly an environmentalist than you would understand that using US natural gas to make electricity was the major cause of our CO2 production drop back the the levels in the early 90's. Transporting oil and natural gas vis pipeline are also more environmentally friendly than by truck or rail due to less spillage.

The push for wind and solar is based on a false analogy that the are pollution free. No one accounts for when there is no wind in certain locations or of course no sunshine at night and the demand has to be met with "peaking plants" that use oil as the fuel and additional coal in operating plants which is much more polluting than the average mix of energy production.

The left superficial analysis of energy production and pollution remedies defies science and works out to be cheap sloganeering instead of actual science. Stop being superficial and recognize that people are dying in Ukraine due to bad energy policy by the left.

One more Citation/quote-

A major 2019 study by the U.S. National Energy Technology Laboratory finds Russian gas piped to Europe has up to 22 percent more greenhouse gas emissions than European coal. U.S. liquified natural gas (LNG) delivered to the EU, in contrast, has up to 56 percent fewer total emissions than EU coal, the report shows.
Your citation shows that US production dropped 15% during the last 12 months of Trump’s term (pandemic/ oil pricing went negative) and has been on the rise since Biden came in. Nice try.
 

horace19040

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2021
509
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THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE PROBLEM. Republican Lies become folklore and internet morons propagate it. If any of you conservatives living in a post-truth fantasy land want to argue about tax-payer funded stadiums, please see this article from 1999 about Republican Gov Tom Ridge designing the stadium tax plan.


You did not dispute my post. Rs inherited the debt and had to pay for it. Who spent the billions building the stadiums? Rendell
 

heckmans

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2006
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Your citation shows that US production dropped 15% during the last 12 months of Trump’s term (pandemic/ oil pricing went negative) and has been on the rise since Biden came in. Nice try.
You do understand that this is a capacity issue, right? Production dropped in 2020 because demand plummeted during lockdowns. You may remember that short period of negative oil prices. Oil companies just reduced production, not capacity. Oil is commodity. Oil companies have no direct control over the price of oil. Oil is prices based on commodity markets that closely look at supply and demand in the moment and in the future.

Much like the policy of the Obama admin, the Biden admin has not approved a single new drilling lease...not 1. There have been some new wells come online during the Biden admin, but these were leases approved during the last admin. From a futures perspective, this limits capacity moving forward and puts a strain on domestic supply to meet demand so we must import. On Day 1 in Office, Biden also cancelled the Keystone XL project that, IIRC, would have provided something like 700K barrels a day of oil from Canada.
There is no honest assessment that says that the Biden admin has not taken specific actions to limit the availability and production of domestic/North American oil and gas, and that it has not impacted geopolitics and the current situation. It's not the full story, but it has had a significant impact.
 
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heckmans

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Feb 13, 2006
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Seems to me a very distinct inflection point in gas prices and inflation occurred exactly timed with the new administration. Either you believe that is causal or you write it off as coincidental. The choice for most is simply political confirmation bias.

What is factually true and indisputable is when this sharp inflection occurred from low gas prices and low inflation to record highs of both. Also indisputable is that high inflation is the most regressive tax there is and causes disproportionate harm to lower and middle class families. 10s of millions of Americans have been pushed below the upward shifting poverty line since the beginning of 2021 and it is still getting worse.

While energy prices are a component of the inflation calculation, it is only part of the story. The only real significant driver of inflation is the Fed govt printing money.

The number keeps growing, but the stat is something like, 85% of all dollars in the money supply have been created in the last 26 months.
Here are the rough numbers.
-At the start of 2020, there was roughly $4 Trillion in circulation.
-During 2020, the money supply increased to $6.7 Trillion, an increase of 67%
-In 2021, the money supply had increased to ~$20 Trillion an additional increase of ~ 200% from Jan 2021.
-It has not stopped in early 2022.

Our govt spends more money than they take in through taxes. Some of the gap is financed through debt(selling bonds). Some is financed by printing money (ie inflating the currency). Currency Inflation (ie Quantitative Easing or QE) is a long term strategy to diminish the value of the national debt. This allows politicians to keep spending while diminishing what is owed in the future. Unfortunately, this is done on the backs of the average taxpayer, and as you note, this disproportionately hurts those at the middle and lower end of the income scale, where any savings become worth less, who tend to have fewer appreciating assets, and wage/salary inflation necessarily lags the printing presses of the Federal Reserve.
 

NICNEM_PSU80

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Gold Member
Dec 27, 2005
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Your citation shows that US production dropped 15% during the last 12 months of Trump’s term (pandemic/ oil pricing went negative) and has been on the rise since Biden came in. Nice try.
When exactly did it drop in 2020? Mid late year when it started looking like there was a possibility that Biden would win?

Look at the years during President Trump’s term. It was nearly straight up because President Trump was pro energy independence so the oil companies could rely on selling more oil and gas where as President Biden was stating he was going to gut the oil and gas industry. Would you be putting money into a losing proposition? Not your money I am sure but of course you shallow thinkers are happy to tax more and invest in losing products.

How about that Russian pipeline carrying dirty natural gas to Europe that Trump stopped but President Biden approved. I see you had no answer for that one.
Your selective response is very telling. I am all for a clean environment but let’s not twist science into a pretzel to make ourselves appear to be environmentally friendly.
 
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Monlion

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Jul 9, 2001
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Your citation shows that US production dropped 15% during the last 12 months of Trump’s term (pandemic/ oil pricing went negative) and has been on the rise since Biden came in. Nice try.
Under Trump oil production increased from 8.9 mbpd in January 2017 to 12.8 mbpd in February 2020 pre Covid. It then dropped to 9.7 mbpd in May 2020 due to the Covid lockdowns resulting in a drop in demand causing a price crash, but it then rapidly recovered by 1.4 mbpd to 11.1 mbpd by the end of the year. Under Biden by the end of 2021 US production only increased by another 500,000 bpd and that’s with much higher prices than under Trump.

The Biden administration has done everything possible to discourage US oil production and it is only now that it has become a political issue they argue for increased US production, which is 180 deg opposite of the Democrat party position.
 

JayWye

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jul 28, 2001
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We all knew it was coming. With Big Oil not getting profits in mid 2020 and early 2021, they were waiting for any excuses possible. Pipeline shutdowns from hackers, refinery fires, hurricanes and now the war in Ukraine, without Russian oil on the market, bingo! Big Oil has been Government subsidized and yet they have been raping and pillaging the American people for years, in the name of higher profits. Most of our Senators and Congressman won't do squat because their campaigns are funded by Big Oil. That's my rant for the day.
Let's see here...was 2 bucks+ a gallon...under the previous admin..."raping and pillaging"? The comparison is by no means exact, but it's nonetheless amusing that there's no fuss whatsoever re entertainers and pro athletes making preposterous amounts of money which, by the way, sooner or later also comes out of the pockets of the average Joe/Josephine.
 

BringBackStoneys

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2001
446
476
1
You do understand that this is a capacity issue, right? Production dropped in 2020 because demand plummeted during lockdowns. You may remember that short period of negative oil prices. Oil companies just reduced production, not capacity. Oil is commodity. Oil companies have no direct control over the price of oil. Oil is prices based on commodity markets that closely look at supply and demand in the moment and in the future.

Much like the policy of the Obama admin, the Biden admin has not approved a single new drilling lease...not 1. There have been some new wells come online during the Biden admin, but these were leases approved during the last admin. From a futures perspective, this limits capacity moving forward and puts a strain on domestic supply to meet demand so we must import. On Day 1 in Office, Biden also cancelled the Keystone XL project that, IIRC, would have provided something like 700K barrels a day of oil from Canada.
There is no honest assessment that says that the Biden admin has not taken specific actions to limit the availability and production of domestic/North American oil and gas, and that it has not impacted geopolitics and the current situation. It's not the full story, but it has had a significant impact.
Are you habitual liar or just uninformed? The Biden administration has approved thousands of new permits. And it’s pissing off environmentalists.

 

SLUPSU

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2018
4,642
2,684
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Much like the policy of the Obama admin, the Biden admin has not approved a single new drilling lease...not 1.

The number keeps growing, but the stat is something like, 85% of all dollars in the money supply have been created in the last 26 months.
Here are the rough numbers.
-At the start of 2020, there was roughly $4 Trillion in circulation.
-During 2020, the money supply increased to $6.7 Trillion, an increase of 67%
-In 2021, the money supply had increased to ~$20 Trillion an additional increase of ~ 200% from Jan 2021.
-It has not stopped in early 2022.

BS lies.... get new sources or understand the numbers you're citing.
 

SLUPSU

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2018
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2,684
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What is a lie? Everything I typed Is 100% verifiable on govt websites.

Money supply didn't jump 200% in 2021 and that's 100% verifiable and hundreds of permits have been approved and that's also 100% verifiable.

I'll start, here's M2 supply... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL
and here's M1.... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL#0

Your turn.... you provide a gov website that shows that NO permits have been approved during the Biden administration.
 

heckmans

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2006
6,622
3,367
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Money supply didn't jump 200% in 2021 and that's 100% verifiable and hundreds of permits have been approved and that's also 100% verifiable.

I'll start, here's M2 supply... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL
and here's M1.... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL#0

Your turn.... you provide a gov website that shows that NO permits have been approved during the Biden administration.
You do realize that the M1 link you shared shows the money supply growing from 4T to more than 20T since the beginning of 2020 just like I said?
 

SLUPSU

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2018
4,642
2,684
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You do realize that the M1 link you shared shows the money supply growing from 4T to more than 20T since the beginning of 2020 just like I said?

Are you going to play dumb now? You do realize that all but ~3.0T of that increase happened in 2020, contrary to what you said, don't you?