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Offsides

Wandering Spectator

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Dec 17, 2017
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www.wanderingspectator.com
I just rewatched the game. After our first score we kicked off for a touchback. On 1st down we dropped them for a 3yd loss but we were called for being lined up in the neutral zone. Was this the right call? If not, what should the ruling have been? The center moved the ball forward causing the actual LOS to be behind the ball. Our guys were lined up behind the 25. The LOS should have been the 25. Just curious since this seems like a unique situation.

 
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I just rewatched the game. After our first score we kicked off for a touchback. On 1st down we dropped them for a 3yd loss but we were called for being lined up in the neutral zone. Was this the right call? If not, what should the ruling have been? The center moved the ball forward causing the actual LOS to be behind the ball. Our guys were lined up behind the 25. The LOS should have been the 25. Just curious since this seems like a unique situation.

Has this person seen Penn State football since 1993.? We get screwed be there OOC refs and screwed worse by the Big10 refs.
 
Has this person seen Penn State football since 1993.? We get screwed be there OOC refs and screwed worse by the Big10 refs.
Yea. Not debating that. Just trying to determine what the actual rule is in this situation. The center normally moves the ball a little and the defense lines up behind it. But with a touchback our guys were lined up correctly yet they looked offsides.
 
Yea. Not debating that. Just trying to determine what the actual rule is in this situation. The center normally moves the ball a little and the defense lines up behind it. But with a touchback our guys were lined up correctly yet they looked offsides.
Assuming your screenshot shows just before the snap, I’d say you’re right. I feel like enforcement of offsides is usually the other way; that there’s several plays a game where a DL’s head is in the NZ but they let it slide.
 
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I remember thinking where is the offsides? Didn't realize it was due to the center moving the ball beyond the line of scrimmage. Something like that should be reviewable particularly after a KO when you know the spot is exactly the 25.
 
We are lucky to be playing football............


I did rewind that play because I saw no movement either..........
 
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How many outright tackles of our defenders by the Auburn Offense were not called? We held a few times and got away with it but the Auburn OL and running backs were wrestling for their lives on almost every play.

Also, how did the B1G ref crew miss the qtr clock expiring before the Wheatley interception?

The B1G refs are both corrupt and bad at the same time.
 
I remember thinking where is the offsides? Didn't realize it was due to the center moving the ball beyond the line of scrimmage. Something like that should be reviewable particularly after a KO when you know the spot is exactly the 25.

Yeah, when I re-watched the game, I was looking specifically at this play and didn't see it either. It was a pretty significant call at the time given the loss of yards on the play and there certainly wasn't any blatant infraction (if there was any at all).
 
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I just rewatched the game. After our first score we kicked off for a touchback. On 1st down we dropped them for a 3yd loss but we were called for being lined up in the neutral zone. Was this the right call? If not, what should the ruling have been? The center moved the ball forward causing the actual LOS to be behind the ball. Our guys were lined up behind the 25. The LOS should have been the 25. Just curious since this seems like a unique situation.

We are still off sides. His hand is on the 25 and his head is beyond that.
 
I thought the nose of the football would be on the left side of the white line and our guys should be lined up on the right side of the white line. To me it looks like we are lined up properly. The official was tricked into thinking we are offsides because of where the center moved the ball (beyond the 25).
 
Yea. Not debating that. Just trying to determine what the actual rule is in this situation. The center normally moves the ball a little and the defense lines up behind it. But with a touchback our guys were lined up correctly yet they looked offsides.

It's very close and hard to tell because the offsides is determined by the furthest forward portion of your body, not necessarily the hand plant. It looks like Mustipher's head could be across or just touching the LOS (I think it's Mustipher, I can only see the 9). It is very close, but the only b1g team that would be called offsides like this by b1g Officials while playing an OOC opponent is PSU.
 
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We are still off sides. His hand is on the 25 and his head is beyond that.

Wrong, I just blew up the picture by linking to Twitter - his hand is absolutely not on the Yard Line, it is forward of it but very close (within inches). His head appears to be almost perfectly tangent to the front of the Yard Line. The only team that would be called for this by b1g Officials is PSU.
 
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I just rewatched the game. After our first score we kicked off for a touchback. On 1st down we dropped them for a 3yd loss but we were called for being lined up in the neutral zone. Was this the right call? If not, what should the ruling have been? The center moved the ball forward causing the actual LOS to be behind the ball. Our guys were lined up behind the 25. The LOS should have been the 25. Just curious since this seems like a unique situation.


How about the non-called far more blatantly obvious False Start on 3rd-&-6 that led to a 30 yard swing in field position and Auburn's first FG.
 
Auburn was lined up offsides all day on bot O and D....that is if the line on the TV is to be believed.

The announcers at some say “you can’t judge the tv line by what is happening on the field. It is a good estimate.”

But looking at the Twitter pic, the Auburn center is kinda wayyyyy out there.
 
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The announcers at some say “you can’t judge the tv line by what is happening on the field. It is a good estimate.”

But looking at the Twitter pic, the Auburn center is kinda wayyyyy out there.
Right that particular play is on the 25 no blue line needed.
 
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We are still off sides. His hand is on the 25 and his head is beyond that.
Are you saying second guy from the top? I don't see hi hand on the 25-yd line. As the other poster above stated, his head is back and tanget to the line.
 
Are you saying second guy from the top? I don't see hi hand on the 25-yd line. As the other poster above stated, his head is back and tanget to the line.

Yes, the players heads are basically directly above their hands because they have their head up looking forward (so the head is not way forward of the plant hand which it would be if head were down just as you say). The head is maybe very slightly forward of his hand, but it's difficult to say whether his head is beyond line or just tangent to it (also it's hard to say if the camera angle is perfectly perpendicular to, and straight down, the LOS - it may be slightly upfield of 25 yard line.
 
By the letter of the law, he's probably lined up in the neutral zone...however, if they are going to call it that tight, you could have about a dozen penalties each game, as they will usually give the benefit of the doubt and it needs to be more blatant. What really seems to have thrown them off is the Auburn center moving the ball upfield an extra foot (also not completely uncommon, but really tough call on PJ on this one).
 
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I’m more intrigued by the way the center has the ball clearly over the line. I know it’s a nit but if you’re going to call offsides what’s the actual rule on if the center places the ball over the actual LOS. Not looking for opinions on the officiating, I know it was bad. Really trying to find out the actual rule if the center clearly violates the LOS.
 
I’m more intrigued by the way the center has the ball clearly over the line. I know it’s a nit but if you’re going to call offsides what’s the actual rule on if the center places the ball over the actual LOS. Not looking for opinions on the officiating, I know it was bad. Really trying to find out the actual rule if the center clearly violates the LOS.
If the center moves the ball forward, it's a 5 yard penalty...however, you'll see it called at this level about once a decade.
 
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I’m more intrigued by the way the center has the ball clearly over the line. I know it’s a nit but if you’re going to call offsides what’s the actual rule on if the center places the ball over the actual LOS. Not looking for opinions on the officiating, I know it was bad. Really trying to find out the actual rule if the center clearly violates the LOS.

It falls under the "Illegal Snap" Penalty. An Illegal snap can be called if the Center moves the ball forward, spins the ball end-to-end, takes both hands off the ball or slides the ball back and stops. Illegal Snap is a 5 Yard Penalty.
 
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The Auburn wr on this side's head is over the line also.

Actually, I don't think it's across the white line - that's the actual yard-line, the blue line is the CBS placed line. However, the Auburn Center's head is clearly WAY PAST the downfield side of the white 25-Yard Line (if you blow the picture up on the Twitter feed it is very clear). As the OP alluded to, when the Auburn Center moved the ball forward, it obviously also moves the Center's head forward. If you look down the line PJ's head is clearly upfield of the Center's head (or if you want to State it the other way, the Center's head is beyond, or downfield, of Mustipher's head.). This is what creates the optical illusion that PJ is offsides (i.e., his head is "across" the Center's head when you look down the line), but if you look closely, it is the Center's head that is across the white yard-line, not Mustipher's head. PJ's head is up and looking forward and appears to be tangent to the line, but the Center's head is clearly well past the line. Based on the picture, this should have been ruled an "Illegal Snap" as the Center moved the ball illegally.
 
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I had noticed that their center was moving the ball forward by at least a foot on a regular basis, but didn't look at it on that specific play. If you look at other yard line spots during the game he moved it forward much more than one would expect is allowed. No reffing fiascos quite like last year though. The loss of a down was pretty bad.

The refs saving a team that can't manage or watch the clock isn't like losing a down. Auburn QB should have been watching the clock and just not snapped it and walked to the other end of the field if they did not want to run a play. We stopped allowing "redo's" on the playground when I was about 7. Giving Auburn another down after throwing an interception because the refs failed to blow the play dead but should have is something that one would expect from a BIG crew. They've probably been directed to save them all for the glorious Maize out. The BIG cannot have Penn Sate complaining about 3 games where the BIG refs blew it. They have already circled the 15th and 29th of October as dates where the best BIG refs must do their jobs properly and earn their pay.
 
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Ward Hog

Well-Known Member​

I had noticed that their center was moving the ball forward by at least a foot on a regular basis, but didn't look at it on that specific play. If you look at other yard line spots during the game he moved it forward much more than one would expect is allowed. No reffing fiascos quite like last year though. The loss of a down was pretty bad.

The refs saving a team that can't manage or watch the clock isn't like losing a down. Auburn QB should have been watching the clock and just not snapped it and walked to the other end of the field if they did not want to run a play. We stopped allowing "redo's" on the playground when I was about 7. Giving Auburn another down after throwing an interception because the refs failed to blow the play dead but should have is something that one would expect from a BIG crew. They've probably been directed to save them all for the glorious Maize out. The BIG cannot have Penn Sate complaining about 3 games where the BIG refs blew it. They have already circled the 15th and 29th of October as dates where the best BIG refs must do their jobs properly and earn their pay.

In addition, I'm pretty sure Danielson is incorrect regarding that play being reviewable once it is snapped and blown dead based on the play clock alone. The Play Clock is "reviewable", even on a play that is not reviewable, but only if the Play Clock error is "egregious". Here is the language in the rulebook:

However, the replay official may correct egregious errors, including those involving the game clock, whether or not a play is reviewable.

The play itself was not a "Reviewable Play", so the only time a Play Clock error is reviewable on a non-reviewable play is if the error was egregious (in this case it wasn't imo).
 
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How about the non-called penalty when the Auburn player took his helmet off in the endzone after scoring their only TD, a meaningless one late in the game? Supposed to be an automatic Unsportsmanlike PF Penalty when a player takes his helmet off like that - of course, no flag from b1g clowns when the team is playing PSU.
 
I just rewatched the game. After our first score we kicked off for a touchback. On 1st down we dropped them for a 3yd loss but we were called for being lined up in the neutral zone. Was this the right call? If not, what should the ruling have been? The center moved the ball forward causing the actual LOS to be behind the ball. Our guys were lined up behind the 25. The LOS should have been the 25. Just curious since this seems like a unique situation.

You win by 29 and you are worried about an offsides?
 
The center can elevate the end of the ball. If he actually moves the ball forward it is a false start. 5 yard penalty.

Not a "False Start" penalty, the penalty is "Illegal Snap Infraction" (same penalty if Center Slides ball back and stops without completing snap - both actions are illegal). The center can tilt the ball downward (back of ball upward), but also is not permitted to spin the ball front to back even if the ball stays in same position - the ball must stay perpendicular to the LOS and must not be moved forward (or back if the center stops the backward motion without snapping it) by Rule.

d. While resting on the ground and before the snap, the long axis of the ball must be at right angles to the scrimmage line (Rule 7-1-3).
e. Unless moved in a backward direction, the movement of the ball does not start a legal snap. It is not a legal snap if the ball is first moved forward or lifted.

This was the penalty used by the corrupt b1g Officials to negate a PSU fumble recovery in the duhO$U game... then you had lame b1g-hugging duhO$U homers on here claiming it was the correct call because it slipped out of his hand during the snapping process when the actual NCAA rule states the following:

c. If, during any backward motion of a legal snap, the ball slips from the snapper’s hand, it becomes a backward pass and is in play (Rule 4-1-1).
 
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Not a "False Start" penalty, the penalty is "Illegal Snap Infraction" (same penalty if Center Slides ball back and stops without completing snap - both actions are illegal). The center can tilt the ball downward (back of ball upward), but also is not permitted to spin the ball front to back even if the ball stays in same position - the ball must stay perpendicular to the LOS and must not be moved forward (or back if the center stops the backward motion without snapping it) by Rule.




This was the penalty used by the corrupt b1g Officials to negate a PSU fumble recovery in the duhO$U game... then you had lame b1g-hugging duhO$U homers on here claiming it was the correct call because it slipped out of his hand during the snapping process when the actual NCAA rule states the following:
Whatever. Win or lose there are those on this board that believe PSU gets screwed. Life goes on.
 
Whatever. Win or lose there are those on this board that believe PSU gets screwed. Life goes on.

PSU does get screwed repeatedly - I just gave you an example. Do you not remember the PSU-duhO$U game when the corrupt b1g clowns wiped out a PSU fumble recovery by calling an "Illegal Snap Infraction" on duhO$U (i.e., a dead-ball 5 yard penalty allowing duhO$U to keep the ball and wiping out a clear PSU fumble recovery)????

Then you had duhO$U fans and b1g homers on here claiming it was the correct call because the ball slipped out of his hand while snapping it making it an Illegal Snap... when the ACTUAL NCAA RULE states the DIAMETRIC OPPOSITE.
 
PSU does get screwed repeatedly - I just gave you an example. Do you not remember the PSU-duhO$U game when the corrupt b1g clowns wiped out a PSU fumble recovery by calling an "Illegal Snap Infraction" on duhO$U (i.e., a dead-ball 5 yard penalty allowing duhO$U to keep the ball and wiping out a clear PSU fumble recovery)????

Then you had duhO$U fans and b1g homers on here claiming it was the correct call because the ball slipped out of his hand while snapping it making it an Illegal Snap... when the ACTUAL NCAA RULE states the DIAMETRIC OPPOSITE.
Why is OSU "O$U"? Is it PSU or P$U? Both are big time football programs. Elite college football today is all about the money. Not much more.
 
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