Notre Dame & Covid reeking havoc among the football players Yoi!

[NewEra 2014]

I've heard this discussed here a lot. Please lay out your entire plan on how to protect the most vulnerable until a reliable vaccine is available. It must be a very easy plan if it's discussed so much.

Well, your premise is false to begin with, so I guess we will start there. Society must proceed as though a reliable vaccine will never be available. Which is the most likely case. Any vaccination that is even partially effective is a bonus.

Once you come to that reality, what you have is a highly contagious disease that is non-lethal to the vast majority of society. In that situation, you allow society to function as normal.

You strongly encourage the elderly and medically compromised to self-quarantine. The degree to which those people comply is their choice. You inform the elderly and medically compromised of potential prophylactic medications that may be helpful (zinc, HCQ, vitamin D, etc) and encourage them to consult with their doctor. The degree to which the at-risk use such medications is their choice.

It really is pretty simple.

 

[PearlSUJam]

Well, your premise is false to begin with, so I guess we will start there. Society must proceed as though a reliable vaccine will never be available. Which is the most likely case. Any vaccination that is even partially effective is a bonus.

Once you come to that reality, what you have is a highly contagious disease that is non-lethal to the vast majority of society. In that situation, you allow society to function as normal.

You strongly encourage the elderly and medically compromised to self-quarantine. The degree to which those people comply is their choice. You inform the elderly and medically compromised of potential prophylactic medications that may be helpful (zinc, HCQ, vitamin D, etc) and encourage them to consult their doctor. The degree to which the at-risk use such medications is their choice.

It really is pretty simple.

You're more ignorant than I though you were. Shove them all in the basement and give them food and meds under the door.(if they choose to) Good answer.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

About a 2.5-3.5% mortality rate. Worth a 50% reduction in gdp?

Ummmmm, no - the actual mortality rate of COVID as proven by statistics here in the US, as well as worldwide stats, is 0.65% - the midpoint of the alarmist rate you are claiming is 5x higher than the factual actual IFR. BTW, the actual rate is not only a small fraction of what you're claiming, but it's also made up 99.99% by people age 65+ with the vast majority of that being people 75+. People under the age of 60 (something like 85% of the population) have an IFR that is effectively 0.

 

[jmisdamina]

Lives do matter. Did you believe that lives also didn't matter during the myriad of other illnesses and viruses that have killed many, many more people than this virus while we didn't shut down society and destroy people's lives?

Last night, Dr. Scott Atlas was on Laura Ingraham's show, and they discussed a current graph from the CDC that shows that hospitalizations now are at a rate that they were back in March before this insanity began. Also, and I've been thinking this for a while now, Dr. Atlas said that the number of cases are less important than the outcomes of those cases, and the stats show the outcome for almost anyone who contracts this who is not in a high risk group will be a good one.

You are using Atles as a source to trust on this? Really? A person who specializes in MRIs and X-rays. Someone with absolutely zero expeireince, training, or knowledge in virus and pandemic responses.

Do you go also go to a podiatrist for heart issues?

 

[step.eng69]

You're more ignorant than I though you were. Shove them all in the basement and give them food and meds under the door.(if they choose to) Good answer.

Why bother.......
A plan similar to Soylent Green could be implemented.
YIKES, I will be the mysterious ingredient! 😢

 

[JustinTyme]

You are using Atles as a source to trust on this? Really? A person who specializes in MRIs and X-rays. Someone with absolutely zero expeireince, training, or knowledge in virus and pandemic responses.

Do you go also go to a podiatrist for heart issues?

And you are ignoring data from the CDC apparently because it doesn't reinforce your views. Should we ignore the CDC data and interpretations by medical doctors just because it doesn't lead to shutting the lives down of the healthy children and working aged adults with a 99.99% survival rate? Have you considered that suicides are up over 20% and that many millions of Americans have not sought medical care as a result of COVID and therefore have not been diagnosed for their cancer, heart conditions, etc.? This is the side of the equation where lockdowns and restrictions are causing excess deaths (many deferred months to a few years) and also degrading the mental and physical health of our otherwise healthy population. Then of course the economic impact is not limited to just economic problems as health problems correlate with decreasing financial situations. The math works out to protect the most vulnerable and let the vast majority with 99.99% survival rate thrive as opposed to hide. If 99.99% is beyond your comfort level then by all means don't leave the house. The rest of us can do math and assume reasonable risk.

 

[step.eng69]

Do you go also go to a podiatrist for heart issues?

🤗

 

[NewEra 2014]

You're more ignorant than I though you were. Shove them all in the basement and give them food and meds under the door.(if they choose to) Good answer.

No need for personal attacks.

Let's try again. The lives of the sick and elderly would not change much, if at all, from their lives currently under COVID lockdown rules. It is the lives of everyone else that would return to normal.

 

[jmisdamina]

And you are ignoring data from the CDC apparently because it doesn't reinforce your views. Should we ignore the CDC data and interpretations by medical doctors just because it doesn't lead to shutting the lives down of the healthy children and working aged adults with a 99.99% survival rate? Have you considered that suicides are up over 20% and that many millions of Americans have not sought medical care as a result of COVID and therefore have not been diagnosed for their cancer, heart conditions, etc.? This is the side of the equation where lockdowns and restrictions are causing excess deaths (many deferred months to a few years) and also degrading the mental and physical health of our otherwise healthy population. Then of course the economic impact is not limited to just economic problems as health problems correlate with decreasing financial situations. The math works out to protect the most vulnerable and let the vast majority with 99.99% survival rate thrive as opposed to hide. If 99.99% is beyond your comfort level then by all means don't leave the house. The rest of us can do math and assume reasonable risk.

By that percentage and using the 2010 Census numbers:

• Under 18: 74,181,267 kids x 65% (middle road herd immunity) x .0001 mortality rate = 4,821
• 18-44: 112,806,642 x 65% (middle road herd immunity) x .0001 mortality rate = 7,332
• 45-64: 81,489,445 x 65% (middle road herd immunity) x .001 mortality rate = 5,296

Now tell me how you truly isolate they remainder? Especially in those that live in multiple family homes?

Will you volunteer your children/nieces/nephews/grandkids to be part of the 4,821?

The extreme in both ends is wrong, just because people say we should practice social distancing, wearing a mask and making sacrifices does not mean stay in your basement. My child goes to school half-days and we restrict who we see and how many. It means showing respect for your neighbors and making some sacrifices for the good of others.

How many of us near neighbors that are high risk and we don't know it?

Those reasons are why I never follow MRI specialists that are politically focused and worked on political campaigns for people like Rudy Giuliani. When I get an MRI for my shoulder issues I will ask what Atles thinks.

 

[PearlSUJam]

The lives of the sick and elderly would not change much, if at all, from their lives currently under COVID lockdown rules.

Your ignorance is in this comment. If you can't see it that's on you. I'm done debating this. I'm off to my kids soccer game. ✌

 

[JustinTyme]

By that percentage and using the 2010 Census numbers:

• Under 18: 74,181,267 kids x 65% (middle road herd immunity) x .0001 mortality rate = 4,821
• 18-44: 112,806,642 x 65% (middle road herd immunity) x .0001 mortality rate = 7,332
• 45-64: 81,489,445 x 65% (middle road herd immunity) x .001 mortality rate = 5,296

Now tell me how you truly isolate they remainder? Especially in those that live in multiple family homes?

Will you volunteer your children/nieces/nephews/grandkids to be part of the 4,821?

The extreme in both ends is wrong, just because people say we should practice social distancing, wearing a mask and making sacrifices does not mean stay in your basement. My child goes to school half-days and we restrict who we see and how many. It means showing respect for your neighbors and making some sacrifices for the good of others.

How many of us near neighbors that are high risk and we don't know it?

Those reasons are why I never follow MRI specialists that are politically focused and worked on political campaigns for people like Rudy Giuliani. When I get an MRI for my shoulder issues I will ask what Atles thinks.

The CDC has 94 COVID deaths currently under age 18. Doing math with poor initial assumptions for the sake of doing math is not what I was suggesting, especially when actual data exists. There are over 2000 adolescent suicides every year and we are seeing at least a 20% spike in suicides overall since the shutdowns started. Do the math on that and compare to the COVID deaths in this age group and let us know what you get.

Perhaps instead of volunteering your children, nieces, nephews, grandkids to be part of the 94 COVID deaths (nearly 1 in a million chance), you are willing to volunteer them to be part of the additional 400+ suicides due to the restrictions? Hopefully this illustrates the tradeoff that occurs when you lock down and that is just additional adolescents lost to suicides. Lock downs have a cost as well and you can measure that in lives. For kids, that cost is orders of magnitude higher than the COVID lives saved.

The point from the beginning that I and several other posters were making is that there is a certain segment of the population that should take additional precautions if they are not comfortable with the risk. The rest of us need to live, work, pursue our passions, and contribute to society. If you want to hide, then hide. Don't force others in very low risk categories to hide because you are scared. If the men that stormed the beaches of Normandy were this candy a$$ed then we'd definitely all be speaking German, that is if we had blond hair and blue eyes of course.

 

[NewEra 2014]

Your ignorance is in this comment. If you can't see it that's on you. I'm done debating this. I'm off to my kids soccer game. ✌

The CDC is reporting that between 30,000 and 90,000 excess deaths have occurred since 2/1/20 in the United States, excluding COVID deaths. This the number of deaths above the average expected number over that time period, once the impact of COVID is excluded.

The effect of the lockdowns on our healthy population is severe, and on the same order of magnitude as the impact of COVID itself.

 

[Aardvark86]

I suppose not. Unless the deceased is your sibling, spouse or offspring.

Ah, but we live with that risk every day.

 

[Aardvark86]

Ummmmm, no - the actual mortality rate of COVID as proven by statistics here in the US, as well as worldwide stats, is 0.65% - the midpoint of the alarmist rate you are claiming is 5x higher than the factual actual IFR. BTW, the actual rate is not only a small fraction of what you're claiming, but it's also made up 99.99% by people age 65+ with the vast majority of that being people 75+. People under the age of 60 (something like 85% of the population) have an IFR that is effectively 0.

1 m global death, 33m cases, the former likely somewhat overstated and the Former somewhat under. 2.5-3.5 is a fair working estimate for my purposes. Either way, we should care about the trade off.

 

[jmisdamina]

The CDC is reporting that between 30,000 and 90,000 excess deaths have occurred since 2/1/20 in the United States, excluding COVID deaths. This the number of deaths above the average expected number over that time period, once the impact of COVID is excluded.

The effect of the lockdowns on our healthy population is severe, and on the same order of magnitude as the impact of COVID itself.

You do realize that many of them could be Covid, right? Many deaths occurred prior to testing was available on any legitimate level. Almost every respectable specialist believes deaths are under counted.

 

[jmisdamina]

1 m global death, 33m cases, the former likely somewhat overstated and the Former somewhat under. 2.5-3.5 is a fair working estimate for my purposes.

Deaths over counted world wide? Really, because I’m sure China, Russia, Brazil, many others are over counting their deaths.

I agree the number who contracted the virus is undercounted, as do most specialists. But, to believe the deaths are over counted is beyond foolish.

 

[NewEra 2014]

You do realize that many of them could be Covid, right? Many deaths occurred prior to testing was available on any legitimate level. Almost every respectable specialist believes deaths are under counted.

Right. Got it. Thanks for your input.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

1 m global death, 33m cases, the former likely somewhat overstated and the Former somewhat under. 2.5-3.5 is a fair working estimate for my purposes. Either way, we should care about the trade off.

Every credible scientific study across the globe says that "Infected Cases" are under reported by a factor of at least 8x and more like 10x based on random sampling of population groups. But keep spouting your horseshit when every real scientific study across the globe (including the CDC's latest statistics) say you're overstating the actual IFR ("Infection Fatality Rate" - i.e., the death rate of those infected) by a factor 5x-to-8x.

 

[Nitwit]

It’s not just deaths which need to be considered, it’s serious illness. Have you spoken to anyone who is symptomatic? This isn’t just a few days of fever and bed rest. It’s a horrible affliction which can last for weeks.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

It’s not just deaths which need to be considered, it’s serious illness. Have you spoken to anyone who is symptomatic? This isn’t just a few days of fever and bed rest. It’s a horrible affliction which can last for weeks.

But yet again, the vast, vast majority of cases for people under the age of 65 are asymptomatic - the precise reason positive cases were so massively under-reported! The vast majority of the people who have been infected never even knew it because it had no effect on them (this is especially true for those under 50 and virtually universally true for those under 30). Scientists clearly identified that "Infection Rates" were massively higher than reported when they sampled population bases across the Country - and contrary to what you're saying, the vast majority were "asymptomatic" and never even knew they'd been infected.

 

[bison13]

You do realize that many of them could be Covid, right? Many deaths occurred prior to testing was available on any legitimate level. Almost every respectable specialist believes deaths are under counted.

I know 4 at national institute of health who disagree with you.

 

[MtNittany]

Dead students in the streets? If not, put a sock in it ND.

 

[JustinTyme]

It’s not just deaths which need to be considered, it’s serious illness. Have you spoken to anyone who is symptomatic? This isn’t just a few days of fever and bed rest. It’s a horrible affliction which can last for weeks.

and it's not just additional suicides, uncaught cancer and cardiovascular deaths that the draconian lock downs have caused, it's also the mental health issues, anxiety, economic despair, increased alcoholism and drug use that need to be considered. This isn't just 15 days to flatten the curve. It's a horrible affliction that has lasted half a year.

 

[Nitt1300]

Everyone has been given a death sentence.

death and taxes

 

[rivalion]

On Friday the CDC released the following survival rates if you get COVID. I'm thinking that this should inform policy and decisions.
Ages 0-19: 99.997%
Ages 20-49: 99.98%
Ages 50-69: 99.5%
Ages 70+: 94.6%

No mention of all the people with long term health issues after recovering. Should that not play a role in the decision making?!

 

[MtNittany]

By that percentage and using the 2010 Census numbers:

• Under 18: 74,181,267 kids x 65% (middle road herd immunity) x .0001 mortality rate = 4,821
• 18-44: 112,806,642 x 65% (middle road herd immunity) x .0001 mortality rate = 7,332
• 45-64: 81,489,445 x 65% (middle road herd immunity) x .001 mortality rate = 5,296

Now tell me how you truly isolate they remainder? Especially in those that live in multiple family homes?

Will you volunteer your children/nieces/nephews/grandkids to be part of the 4,821?

The extreme in both ends is wrong, just because people say we should practice social distancing, wearing a mask and making sacrifices does not mean stay in your basement. My child goes to school half-days and we restrict who we see and how many. It means showing respect for your neighbors and making some sacrifices for the good of others.

How many of us near neighbors that are high risk and we don't know it?

Those reasons are why I never follow MRI specialists that are politically focused and worked on political campaigns for people like Rudy Giuliani. When I get an MRI for my shoulder issues I will ask what Atles thinks.

Big FAT Yawn. When you have to employ your "children/nieces/nephews/grandkids" to try and make a point, maybe your point isn't so good.

 

[GreggK]

Last night, Dr. Scott Atlas was on Laura Ingraham's show,

Wow! 😂😂😂

 

[JustinTyme]

No mention of all the people with long term health issues after recovering. Should that not play a role in the decision making?!

Quantify and source it if you believe it is a consideration. Then compare it to the long term health consequences of 6+ months of shut downs, tens of millions losing their job, 7.5 million business owners losing their business, 87 million kids losing their entire social group and losing a year of education (online for K - 12 is worthless), destroying the economy, etc. Let us know what you come up with and it will be considered. Please be sure to quantify so that we can see relative cost of not locking down at this point verses costs of extending the lockdowns into their 8th month and beyond. It is helpful to understand and weigh impacts in terms of numbers of people affected.

 

[MtNittany]

Quantify and source it if you believe it is a consideration. Then compare it to the long term health consequences of 6+ months of shut downs, tens of millions losing their job, 7.5 million business owners losing their business, 87 million kids losing their entire social group and losing a year of education (online for K - 12 is worthless), destroying the economy, etc. Let us know what you come up with and it will be considered. Please be sure to quantify so that we can see relative cost of not locking down at this point verses costs of extending the lockdowns into their 8th month and beyond. It is helpful to understand and weigh impacts in terms of numbers of people affected.

It's almost as if these people are reading from a script. It's getting real old.

 

[JustinTyme]

It's almost as if these people are reading from a script. It's getting real old.

I'm all for considering all points of view but I'd like to see people think a little deeper than a talking point. If we want to solve problems, then dig in, define and analyze the problem thoroughly, provide some depth of thought, quantify, use all available data and sources, determine what is known/unknown/assumed, consider potential outcomes in terms of both probability and severity, analyze risks and do so granularly (not all age categories are impacted the same) and then mitigate them and manage the residual risks, and understand that you have to apply logic and reason to support your conclusions.

 

[crazytoadie]

Notre Dame's Brian Kelly: Coronavirus outbreak stemmed from team pregame meal

Kelly said the team ate together before opening the season against South Florida on Sept. 12.

www.yahoo.com

Coach Kelly believes the current outbreak stems from a team meal on Sept 12.

 

[sss]

This is getting good. The nut jobs are arguing with each other. I don’t think they realize they are arguing the same side. Nobody tell them.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Is amusing how all of these "positive tests" in college and Pro sports are "asymptomatic" and worldwide statistics clearly demonstrate that they aren't at risk of anything (and history will show that precisely zero of these "positive tests" - and there are several hundred, if not into the thousands at this point - will ever even be sick, let alone go to the hospital or die as the alarmists want you to believe.). Just absurd how the age-based statistics, which are overwhelming at this point, are simply being ignored (these athletes are not at risk) and the press is now reporting positive cases as if we're all at risk of dying like the extremely elderly who make up the vast majority of the IFR (Infection Fatality Rate).

The coronavirus is most deadly if you are older and male — new data reveal the risks

A slew of detailed studies has now quantified the increased risk the virus poses to older people, men, and other groups.

www.nature.com

Research be damned - comical how little you have heard about "the slew of research" that confirms that the IFR is wholly made up of people 65+ years in age throughout the world from the left-leaning press here in the US.

Read Runners World....

 

[marshall23]

Ah, but we live with that risk every day.

People get laid off and businesses fail everyday as well. No big deal right?

 

[marshall23]

I'm all for considering all points of view but I'd like to see people think a little deeper than a talking point. If we want to solve problems, then dig in, define and analyze the problem thoroughly, provide some depth of thought, quantify, use all available data and sources, determine what is known/unknown/assumed, consider potential outcomes in terms of both probability and severity, analyze risks and do so granularly (not all age categories are impacted the same) and then mitigate them and manage the residual risks, and understand that you have to apply logic and reason to support your conclusions.

So you are saying that if we follow your roadmap, the solution to ending this pandemic will originate here? I'll be damned.

 

[BobPSU92]

Notre Dame's Brian Kelly: Coronavirus outbreak stemmed from team pregame meal

Kelly said the team ate together before opening the season against South Florida on Sept. 12.

www.yahoo.com

Coach Kelly believes the current outbreak stems from a team meal on Sept 12.

 

[JustinTyme]

So you are saying that if we follow your roadmap, the solution to ending this pandemic will originate here? I'll be damned.

What roadmap? I was imploring people to think deeper about the problems. Are you against using the available CDC data to inform policy and decisions? Are you against quantifying and analyzing risks? I really didn't think that I would be called out on suggesting that we think critically and use logic to solve problems. And if I'm saying something, then I'll actually type it. I wouldn't need someone else to extrapolate to say what they think that I'm saying and then try to credit it to me as if it were my words. I'm not going to make up what I think you're saying and then present it as your thoughts. I'll let you speak for yourself.

 

[PearlSUJam]

What roadmap? I was imploring people to think deeper about the problems. Are you against using the available CDC data to inform policy and decisions? Are you against quantifying and analyzing risks? I really didn't think that I would be called out on suggesting that we think critically and use logic to solve problems. And if I'm saying something, then I'll actually type it. I wouldn't need someone else to extrapolate to say what they think that I'm saying and then try to credit it to me as if it were my words. I'm not going to make up what I think you're saying and then present it as your thoughts. I'll let you speak for yourself.

Hey new guy, have you seen Obliviax around lately? 🙄

 

[ChandlerPearce]

Unless you have been a hospital department head, administrator, or ranking physician of a particular specialty.....I doubt you possess the non public information to extrapolate the true meanings of all this data. Amazing how so many blindly believe what a the media tells you.

 

[ChandlerPearce]

The idiots running the country and those who wish to run the country are surrounded by other idiots who reside in the country.

Idiots? If you are referring to those who believe what the media spoon feeds you...I agree. Kind of like believing Reggie White died due to sleep apnea....he didn't. Unfortunately people today believe whatever their political beliefs agenda tells them is correct....instead of learning what the truth is.