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Noteworthy Results & Goldfish Games: Feb 16-20

Griffith got in deep on some attacks from in close in the 1st, but they all resulted in stalemates.

Wick scored 2 takedowns from space. A little surprising that he scored on the 1st period HC because it came from pretty far out.

2nd period rideout was quite impressive, given that Griffith is good on the mat.

Wick is gonna be very hard to beat at nationals.
 
Past results are not a guarantee of future performance (he finished 4th last season), but I can see him on the podium. To get there, Schultz will have to beat a Wood/Stencil/Traub type talent, which he's proven he can do.
Oh I agree but he's set himself up for others to think they can beat him. But your right he will AA
 
Let's not underrate Schultz that much just because we're mad he ducked the matchup, the kid wanted to wrestle and Zeke told him no. Also, COVID is more or less why the majority of ASU/Michigan matched didn't happen. His only losses last year were to Big Cass and he took Kerk down at will it seems.
 
Could you imagine tomorrow Berge wrestling 157 and then 7 extra matches with wins in 1 second injury defaults.
I’d absolutely do this. If they will let everyone game the system, might as well just go ahead and make a mockery out of it. Helps with the allocations and because it’s PSU, everyone will freak out and change the rule.
 
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And this will be why Extra Matches — which were long overdue and universally embraced — will be taken away.

Nice job, coaches. You may feel slighted by the framework for NCAA qualification, but it will always be about taking the mat and wrestling the matches. This gamesmanship is sad, and now you’ve ruined a good thing.
This. Extra matches had tremendous upside for both wrestlers and fans. Leave it to some coaches to whore it out.

Sort of like the ridiculous warning on football helmets :”not to be used as a weapon” NCAA might have to add, “extra matches must be wrestled completely or they don’t count” and “matches against teammates don’t count”.

could call it the Dresser Jones rule.
 
This. Extra matches had tremendous upside for both wrestlers and fans. Leave it to some coaches to whore it out.

Sort of like the ridiculous warning on football helmets :”not to be used as a weapon” NCAA might have to add, “extra matches must be wrestled completely or they don’t count” and “matches against teammates don’t count”.

could call it the Dresser Jones rule.
Great post. I’m not entirely sure how the allocation stuff works and what exactly these coaches are pulling. Hopefully when this shakes out someone here will spell out what wrestlers may have been left out or if it even had any impact at all.
 
And this will be why Extra Matches — which were long overdue and universally embraced — will be taken away.

Nice job, coaches. You may feel slighted by the framework for NCAA qualification, but it will always be about taking the mat and wrestling the matches. This gamesmanship is sad, and now you’ve ruined a good thing.

I couldn't agree more.
 
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Ok, maybe I’d allow that . . . because the tHR meltdown would be of epic proportions.

Sure, the convo would consist simply of MVP, Ironbird, Goblin, and Don doing a round-robin circle of their own, but the rage and hate would be epic nonetheless.

I couldn't agree even more.

@MVPFAN

sethrogen-seth.gif
 
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Exactly, if an EXTRA match can't take place then it should be a non-event ... they are called EXTRA matches for a reason.
 
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The rules are the rules, and right now what's discussed above is a loophole. Don't know that penalizing a coach is the right thing to do, but certainly changing the rule(s) is.

We can bust on the NCAA committees all we want, though in this case it would be shocking if there wasn't a change for next season.
 
The rules are the rules, and right now what's discussed above is a loophole. Don't know that penalizing a coach is the right thing to do, but certainly changing the rule(s) is.

We can bust on the NCAA committees all we want, though in this case it would be shocking if there wasn't a change for next season.
I think that’s simply a bad take. It’s one thing for coaches to allow for what appears to be a mismatch on paper as long as both wrestlers are trying as much as they would in any other match. It’s completely another for them to opt into a predetermined outcome where neither guy even tries to compete. It’s a fundamental tenet of organized athletics. What’s the loophole I’m missing here? Is it that there’s a coin flip to determine which guy will injury default? Is that how they get around it not being a predetermined, rigged outcome?
 
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The rules are the rules, and right now what's discussed above is a loophole. Don't know that penalizing a coach is the right thing to do, but certainly changing the rule(s) is.

We can bust on the NCAA committees all we want, though in this case it would be shocking if there wasn't a change for next season.
I realize you’re the level headed one here, but this is obviously unethical, manipulative behavior on the part of the coaches involved. Penalizing the coaches AND changing the rules are exactly the right things to do.
 
I realize you’re the level headed one here, but this is obviously unethical, manipulative behavior on the part of the coaches involved. Penalizing the coaches AND changing the rules are exactly the right things to do.
I would have loved to hear the coaches asked about these matches and have them try to justify them being a good idea. I can hear a Tom Brands type response “whatever is best for my wrestler.” However, at some point, what is right should be the main point.
 
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The Iowa vs Neb dual has several matches with Big Ten seeding implications.

In Parenthesis are Big Ten record - discounting tourneys.

Eierman (4-1) vs Red (5-1)
Murin (5-1) vs Lovett (6-1)
Kem (6-1) vs Labs (6-2)
Warner (6-1) vs Schultz (7-0)

I wonder if we will see any ducks.
 
I think that’s simply a bad take. It’s one thing for coaches to allow for what appears to be a mismatch on paper as long as both wrestlers are trying as much as they would in any other match. It’s completely another for them to opt into a predetermined outcome where neither guy even tries to compete. It’s a fundamental tenet of organized athletics. What’s the loophole I’m missing here? Is it that there’s a coin flip to determine which guy will injury default? Is that how they get around it not being a predetermined, rigged outcome?
There's no rule against it, so the coaches came up with a clever (🤪) way to game the system. There's nothing against doing it, so the rule(s) need to change. Otherwise this will continue.

My point is simple, and it is the same take as with any rule. In this case, unless I find something in writing that states what is happening is against the rules, then it's NOT AGAINST THE RULES. Blaming people is misguided, although it may speak to their character.

If you don't like it, change the rules.
 
I realize you’re the level headed one here, but this is obviously unethical, manipulative behavior on the part of the coaches involved. Penalizing the coaches AND changing the rules are exactly the right things to do.
I believe this part of the rules (although It doesn't specifically mention fixing matches applies). Especially the parts I bolded.

Codes of Conduct
Sportsmanship is a core value of the NCAA and the NCAA Wrestling Rules
Committee believes that participation in athletics is an integral part of the
educational experience for student-athletes. Therefore, it expects the highest
standards of sportsmanship, integrity and conduct of all individuals associated
with contests
, as well as administration of all aspects of weight management
reporting and monitoring, data and urine collection. In particular, the standards
are especially stringent for coaches and referees, as well as assessors of the NCAA
Weight Management Program, all who are role models, authority figures and
representatives of intercollegiate athletics.
Coaches
It is a professional obligation of all collegiate wrestling coaches to conduct
themselves in such a way as to reflect credit upon their institutions, their
profession and themselves. The adherence to this professional obligation in both
winning or losing is the cornerstone of both this sport and the NCAA. Good
sportsmanship, appearance, pride, honor and concern for the well-being of the
competitors should be placed before all else. The rules have been established in
the spirit of this statement.
Student-Athletes
It is the responsibility of all wrestlers to conduct themselves in such a way
as to reflect credit upon their institutions, the sport and themselves. Further,
all wrestlers should realize that their words, actions and behavior are related
closely to the image of the sport as perceived by all segments of the public and
wrestling communities. This applies to conduct as a competitor on the mat,
while attending the event, while traveling to and from the event, and while both
on and off campus. Good sportsmanship, pride, honor and personal behavior
should be placed above all else. The rules have been established in the spirit of
this statement.
Referees
Wrestling referees have the responsibility for conducting bouts in a dignified,
professional and unbiased manner and shall deal with all situations in adherence
with the rules, in the spirit of good sportsmanship and in the best interest of
the wrestlers and the sport. The character and conduct of referees must be
above reproach. When in uniform or on site, a referee shall not fraternize with
competitors and/or coaches. Referees must keep themselves prepared both
physically and mentally to administer bouts. Referees will enforce the rules
firmly and fairly in both letter and spirit in such a way that attention is drawn
to the wrestlers rather than themselves.
 
I would have loved to hear the coaches asked about these matches and have them try to justify them being a good idea. I can hear a Tom Bramds type response “whatever is best for my wrestler.” However, at some point, what is right should be the main point.
It looks real bad (on the surface), much like Nick Suriano stepping on the mat for PSU at B10s only to injury default.

If there are extenuating circumstances (COVID protocol, injury, weather cancelation, or some combination) then the coaches are likely taking the best immediate action that is under their control.
 
There's no rule against it, so the coaches came up with a clever (🤪) way to game the system. There's nothing against doing it, so the rule(s) need to change. Otherwise this will continue.

My point is simple, and it is the same take as with any rule. In this case, unless I find something in writing that states what is happening is against the rules, then it's NOT AGAINST THE RULES. Blaming people is misguided, although it may speak to their character.

If you don't like it, change the rules.


"... clever..."

At worst, they're f***ing cheating.
At best, it is unethical as f***.

4-letter F-word, not 3-letter F-word.

You try so to hard to keep your comments down the middle & PC, but once in awhile you have to point at an issue, and call a spade a spade.

It is a dirty, unethical move - it's not "clever".

"Therefore, it expects the highest standards of sportsmanship, integrity and conduct of all individuals associated with contests"

Put it this way - if the PSU coaches pulled this crap, you would not support it.
 
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I believe this part of the rules (although It doesn't specifically mention fixing matches applies). Especially the parts I bolded.

Codes of Conduct
Sportsmanship is a core value of the NCAA and the NCAA Wrestling Rules
Committee believes that participation in athletics is an integral part of the
educational experience for student-athletes. Therefore, it expects the highest
standards of sportsmanship, integrity and conduct of all individuals associated
with contests
, as well as administration of all aspects of weight management
reporting and monitoring, data and urine collection. In particular, the standards
are especially stringent for coaches and referees, as well as assessors of the NCAA
Weight Management Program, all who are role models, authority figures and
representatives of intercollegiate athletics.
Coaches
It is a professional obligation of all collegiate wrestling coaches to conduct
themselves in such a way as to reflect credit upon their institutions, their
profession and themselves. The adherence to this professional obligation in both
winning or losing is the cornerstone of both this sport and the NCAA. Good
sportsmanship, appearance, pride, honor and concern for the well-being of the
competitors should be placed before all else. The rules have been established in
the spirit of this statement.
Student-Athletes
It is the responsibility of all wrestlers to conduct themselves in such a way
as to reflect credit upon their institutions, the sport and themselves. Further,
all wrestlers should realize that their words, actions and behavior are related
closely to the image of the sport as perceived by all segments of the public and
wrestling communities. This applies to conduct as a competitor on the mat,
while attending the event, while traveling to and from the event, and while both
on and off campus. Good sportsmanship, pride, honor and personal behavior
should be placed above all else. The rules have been established in the spirit of
this statement.
Referees
Wrestling referees have the responsibility for conducting bouts in a dignified,
professional and unbiased manner and shall deal with all situations in adherence
with the rules, in the spirit of good sportsmanship and in the best interest of
the wrestlers and the sport. The character and conduct of referees must be
above reproach. When in uniform or on site, a referee shall not fraternize with
competitors and/or coaches. Referees must keep themselves prepared both
physically and mentally to administer bouts. Referees will enforce the rules
firmly and fairly in both letter and spirit in such a way that attention is drawn
to the wrestlers rather than themselves.
You beat me to this point. I suspect a careful read of the NCAA rules would identify any number of provisions that this kind of match-fixing implicitly violates.

In any event, if the standard for judging behavior is whether there's an express rule barring misbehavior, brace yourself for plenty of disappointing misbehavior.
 
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Yianni D. with a 12-6 win over Austin Gomez. Yianni in control for most of the match, though Gomez had a nice upper body throw that almost became back points for both guys when Yianni brought his funk to the party.
 
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Why would Santoro allow this? He's as much to blame as Zeke.

I don’t know how much back-scratching is going on, or if there is just a gentlemen’s agreement among some faction of D1 programs to just agree to do it for some higher cause they believe in, but it is shady and I presume being done by the coaches (as opposed to the wrestlers).

Absolutely absurd. Zeke Jones is a ****. Same guy who intentionally had Schultz duck BOTH Kerk AND Parris. What a freaking joke. Disgusting.
Santoro actually is the one getting the major benefit from this, despite getting the loss. Both of his guys needed the match to get to 15 for the RPI. Despite the W, Zeke's guys didn't benefit in any way from this other than padding their already gaudy enough (in McGee's case) or still not good enough (Ramos) records.

Am more bothered by this:

Both of the guys who won the ECMs did it to get the winning percentage, and it was an intraconference dual, so literally both of those benefit the MAC. That stinks of collusion to me.
 
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Trying to watch the NCST vs VA Tech match. The assholes at the ACC Network has a women's basketball game on. Of course it's close enough for all the BS timeouts and fouling. James Naismith should have been beaten and strung up by his balls before being burned at the stake.
 
Great match by Hayden at the end. He pushed action the entire third and OT.
 
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