Norden Bombsight: Put a bomb in a pickle barrel at 20,000 ft altitude.

[Odwil]

Exactly! Napalm didn't become notorious until 20 years later.

Napalm in WWII was used by the P-47 pilots to stop the German Tiger tanks. Conventional bombs had little effect on the Tiger Tank. The Napalm
would kill the crew but not destroy the tank.
My source was my father-in-law who flew 235 missions in fighters, most P-47
in ground support. He was in the Pacific initially and then Europe.
He was a member of the 365th Fighter group in Europe. They have some interesting film taken on different missions

 

[rag195]

Napalm in WWII was used by the P-47 pilots to stop the German Tiger tanks. Conventional bombs had little effect on the Tiger Tank. The Napalm
would kill the crew but not destroy the tank.
My source was my father-in-law who flew 235 missions in fighters, most P-47
in ground support. He was in the Pacific initially and then Europe.
He was a member of the 365th Fighter group in Europe. They have some interesting film taken on different missions

The guy has my praise

 

[JJTopp99]

Actually it gave the defenders a lot more to hide behind. Monte Cassino earlier in the was a good example.



You can still see, if you know where to look, battle damage in Berlin from WW II, usually on the back side of buildings. But it's getting less and less. Very common in East Berlin in 1973 and 1978--still there in 2005, but not as obvious.

Also, several of the giant flak towers that Hitler had built in Berlin are still standing. The Allies tried to destroy them with heavy bombers but were unsuccessful. After the war, the Germans tried to destroy some of them with high explosives but it took massive amounts to do so (reinforced concrete).

They played a role in the defense of Berlin against the Soviets in 1945 as well.

Link: https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/using-nazi-flak-towers-today
SNIPPET: When Germany was conquered, Soviet forces who took Berlin had to lay siege out of range and negotiate a surrender of the towers.

 

[kgilbert78]

Also, the giant flak towers that Hitler had built in Berlin are still standing. The Allies tried to destroy them with heavy bombers but were unsuccessful. After the war, the Germans tried to destroy some of them with high explosives but it took massive amounts of high explosives (reinforced concrete).

They played a role in the defense of Berlin against the Soviets in 1945 as well.

Link: https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/using-nazi-flak-towers-today
SNIPPET: When Germany was conquered, Soviet forces who took Berlin had to lay siege out of range and negotiate a surrender of the towers.

Not all. The Berlin ones were either totally demolished or partly demolished and some were covered over as part of the "rubble mountains"--as your article notes. The one remaining in Hamburg is iconic to the city, given that it lays at the foot of FC St. Pauli's home stadium (i've seen it, given that I've been to a St. Pauli match). There are also a few in Vienna.

Link

 

[Obliviax]

Just saw this and thought it was appropriate:

 

[TheGLOV]

Just saw this and thought it was appropriate:

I'd swap out that Italian for French.

 

[step.eng69]

Our family history includes 6 WW2 Vets, none of them was in the Air Force,

The Army Air Corps was the "Air Force" at that time. The USAF was established in1947.

 

[schoolie]

More young men were lost in the air war over Europe than the Marines lost in the Pacific

Can you expand on that a bit? Were the losses limited to airplane crews or are paratroopers included. Seems like the loss of Marines in the Pacific Theater would be greater.

 

[Nitt1300]

The Army Air Corps was the "Air Force" at that time. The USAF was established in1947.

that was kind of my point, honestly

 

[step.eng69]

that was kind of my point, honestly

Got it, I thought you were talking USAF. Actually my dad was in both, The Air Corps, then spent 20 more years in the USAF-SAC performing strategic photography.

 

[Nitt1300]

Got it, I thought you were talking USAF. Actually my dad was in both, The Air Corps, then spent 20 more years in the USAF-SAC performing strategic photography.

Did he ever express an opinion on Curtis Lemay?

 

[JJTopp99]

Just saw this and thought it was appropriate:

LOL, good one! Pretty much true too.

 

[JJTopp99]

Can you expand on that a bit? Were the losses limited to airplane crews or are paratroopers included. Seems like the loss of Marines in the Pacific Theater would be greater.

Nope, that pertains to aircrew killed only, no paratrooper losses included. Marine losses in the Pacific weren't even close to aircrew losses.

US MILITARY CASUALTIES IN WORLD WAR II
Branch Killed Wounded
Army and Army Air Force 318,274* 565,861
*Of the above, by the end of the war, over 40,000 flyers were killed in combat theatres and another 18,000 were wounded.
Navy 62,614 37,778
Marines 24,511 68,207
Coast Guard 1,917 Unknown
TOTAL 407,316 671,278

At its height in mid-1944, the Army Air Forces had 2.6 million on active duty and nearly 80,000 aircraft of all types.

 

[Nitt1300]

Nope, that pertains to aircrew killed only, no paratrooper losses included. Marine losses in the Pacific weren't even close to aircrew losses.

US MILITARY CASUALTIES IN WORLD WAR II
Branch Killed Wounded
Army and Army Air Force 318,274* 565,861
*Of the above, by the end of the war, over 40,000 flyers were killed in combat theatres and another 18,000 were wounded.
Navy 62,614 37,778
Marines 24,511 68,207
Coast Guard 1,917 Unknown
TOTAL 407,316 671,278

At its height in mid-1944, the Army Air Forces had 2.6 million on active duty and nearly 80,000 aircraft of all types.

Next to serving in bombers, the highest loss rate was that of merchant marine sailors.

 

[LemonEars]

Just an observation. I don't have anything to add but I think this is the best thread on the McAndrew board in years! Passionate. Fact filled. Respectful. Some really great posts in this thread!

 

[WDLion]

Just an observation. I don't have anything to add but I think this is the best thread on the McAndrew board in years! Passionate. Fact filled. Respectful. Some really great posts in this thread!

Narduzzi sucks. Now it's the greatest ever.

 

[JJTopp99]

Narduzzi sucks. Now it's the greatest ever.

...and Kenny 8 Yards looks to improve on his passing yardage average next year (nice to see he sets high goals).

 

[rotzc]

The Bloody 100th had some of the highest causalities in the 8th. German planes would look for the Square D purposely attack them first. I believe the book is called a wing and a prayer. it was written by the lead navigator of the 100th. Great book.[/QUOTE]

 

[LemonEars]

Narduzzi sucks. Now it's the greatest ever.

Please explain what Narduzzi has to do with the Norden Bombsight thread.

 

[mn78psu83]

Next to serving in bombers, the highest loss rate was that of merchant marine sailors.

I read something about that somewhere a while ago. My father was in the glider infantry and I'm told - by those who know a lot more about it than I do - that being in it was dicey. He died in 1977 and never discussed anything about the actual fighting with me. My mother once mentioned that he was quite lucky to make it home though.

 

[interrobang]

Exactly! Napalm didn't become notorious until 20 years later.

Napalm was used prominently in WWII in both Germany and Japan and then again in Korea

 

[interrobang]

Please explain what Narduzzi has to do with the Norden Bombsight thread.

It was overhyped and over promised but really didn't do anything special that others did there?

 

[olelion]

Can you expand on that a bit? Were the losses limited to airplane crews or are paratroopers included. Seems like the loss of Marines in the Pacific Theater would be greater.

No, just t aircrews and I think I learned it from the book "Masters of the Air"
It's a staggering niumber when conmpared to the marines.

 

[WDLion]

Can you expand on that a bit? Were the losses limited to airplane crews or are paratroopers included. Seems like the loss of Marines in the Pacific Theater would be greater.

Army troops did a considerable amount of fighting in the Pacific. It wasn't all Marines.

 

[schoolie]

Nope, that pertains to aircrew killed only, no paratrooper losses included. Marine losses in the Pacific weren't even close to aircrew losses.

US MILITARY CASUALTIES IN WORLD WAR II
Branch Killed Wounded
Army and Army Air Force 318,274* 565,861
*Of the above, by the end of the war, over 40,000 flyers were killed in combat theatres and another 18,000 were wounded.
Navy 62,614 37,778
Marines 24,511 68,207
Coast Guard 1,917 Unknown
TOTAL 407,316 671,278

At its height in mid-1944, the Army Air Forces had 2.6 million on active duty and nearly 80,000 aircraft of all types.

Thanks. I never would have thought that.

 

[schoolie]

No, just t aircrews and I think I learned it from the book "Masters of the Air"
It's a staggering niumber when conmpared to the marines.

Thanks

 

[kgilbert78]

Army troops did a considerable amount of fighting in the Pacific. It wasn't all Marines.

Including two of my uncles (Army)

 

[WDLion]

Including two of my uncles (Army)

Okinawa was more army than marines.

 

[kgilbert78]

Okinawa was more army than marines.

I know one was in the Philippines (during the retaking). The story he told about being alone on a jungle path was quietly hair-raising. Not sure about the other. Both were slated for Operation Coronet.

 

[JJTopp99]

Speaking of “Masters of the Air”, does anyone have any recent info on the Hanks/Spielberg/HBO project based on the book?

I searched that several months ago but I could not find any update (I gave up after looking for about 30 minutes).
Perhaps someone else can find something on it?

 

[olelion]

I searched that several months ago but I could not find any update (I gave up after looking for about 30 minutes).
Perhaps someone else can find something on it?

Renamed "The Mighty Eighth" sometime ion 2019
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/hbos-mighty-eighth-update-getting-close.html

 

[JJTopp99]

Renamed "The Mighty Eighth" sometime ion 2019
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/hbos-mighty-eighth-update-getting-close.html

Awesome!

 

[GreggK]

The Bomber Mafia is out today from Malcolm Gladwell.
It is a fascinating book. The Norden Bombsight is covered as is Curtis LeMay.
Highly recommend for anyone interested in this topic.

 

[olelion]

My first job out of college was Burroughs Corp. They used to make product just outside detroit. it was the plant where the norden bombsight was made. The guy who hired me, was the lead navigator for the 100th bomb group when the war ended. We used to sit and listen to him for hours:

• One of the first to see a jet (ME-262)
• Carpet Bombing in 1944/45
• Believes he is the only Nav to shoot down an enemy fighter
• Lead Nav-ing a hundred+ B17s over England out of Stansted (I believe)

Two recommendations: Eat at the 100th Bomb Group restaurant at the CLE airport. It is full of authentic items donated by Bloody 100th members (including the guy who hired me) and read 'A Higher Calling" book.

"Masters of the Air" is the best comprehensive book on the 8th air force.

 

[olelion]

Can you expand on that a bit? Were the losses limited to airplane crews or are paratroopers included. Seems like the loss of Marines in the Pacific Theater would be greater.

No. These were air crew losses. It was a phucking slaughter

 

[olelion]

The Bomber Mafia is out today from Malcolm Gladwell.
It is a fascinating book. The Norden Bombsight is covered as is Curtis LeMay.
Highly recommend for anyone interested in this topic.

Just downloaded it.

 

[schoolie]

No. These were air crew losses. It was a phucking slaughter

This is kind of weird, but I never made that post, nor do I remember the thread. Hmmm, somebody's playing schoolie. Not fond of imposters.

 

[olelion]

This is kind of weird, but I never made that post, nor do I remember the thread. Hmmm, somebody's playing schoolie. Not fond of imposters.

Well, it wasn't me but please note that this is an old thread.....2018

 

[idotter]

Early on the airmen stood only a 20% chnce of completing their 25 missions. The mission requirement was increased to 35 after fighter escorts were fully employed. By that time the German airforce was pretty well decimated and it became much easier to complete the 35 missions.

My dad flew on B-17’s out of England. Airmen received a medal after every 5 missions basically for surviving.

 

[olelion]

The Bomber Mafia is out today from Malcolm Gladwell.
It is a fascinating book. The Norden Bombsight is covered as is Curtis LeMay.
Highly recommend for anyone interested in this topic.

Very early in the book the Pittsburgh flood of 1936 is mentioned. The plant that made the special springs for variable pitch propellers was destroyed. This essentially brought aircraft production to a standstill. So the Maxwell Mafia guys correctly conclude that if you could taken out a similar plant of the enemy with precision bombing you could cripple their ability to produce aircraft. Ergo the birth of an idea. Here was the problem. They didn't pay attention to ALL the damage inflicted on Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh had been carpet bombed by floodwaters and the "spring" plant just happened to get hit. The idea of precision bombing was sound but the technology didn't exist to carry it out