Next up, Michigan! and a couple thoughts

creamery freak

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I think there is some question about what exactly Cael did say.

Beware of the internet rumor mill.
I believe the biggest question is do we want a 100% Brady at 165 or an 80% Brady at 157? The 149 Brady missed quite a few matches and was a shell of the Brady we saw last year. I'll be happy if he stays at 165, even though we have a drop off at 157.
 

Junglekitty

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I really think that CStar is wrestling at a top notch level this year with the Natty in his back pocket. I just don't see Massa or anyone at 74 beating him.
I agree with you he is wrestling top notch. As of now, he's my pick to win the weight in March. However, I wouldn't be completely surprised if Massa beats him. To overlook Massa or write him off and just count that as an automatic win would be a terrible disservice. Massa is a very good wrestler, undefeated on the year, and finished 5th last year at NCAAs. He has wins over a number of good guys including Wick, Romero, and had some extremely close matches with Cenzo
 
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McScoreley

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Tony has earned the 157 spot, I think it's pretty clear at this point and barring a change of heart by Berge about going back down to 157, he will be our guy in the postseason. He's been our starter for all Big Ten duals, he didn't get sent to the Scuffle and he has gotten the toughest 157 assignments to date (Humphreys/Teemer) as well. He's going out there and scrapping and has given himself a chance in basically every match I've watched so far this year. Yes, he's not winning but as far as I'm concerned, he's shown way more than Bearclaw and Joe because he at least has a very reliable go to attack with the ankle pick.

I can see Claw potentially making a case for 157 being his spot since he's done pretty well in extra matches and can ride. Joe still enjoys those low percentage throws and fancy rolls off bottom and it's pretty clear he can't make 157 comfortably.
 

Sportfan2017

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Somebody has to know what Brady weighed in at on Sunday. They announced Kerk at 240.8. Come on......let us know......or we'll just keep guessing :)
 
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District four

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I’d be happy if Berge made the podium at 65, but as blue as my glasses are I just cant see him beating any of Marinelli, Hamiti, Griffith??, Karchla, O’Toole, Wick, Wittlake. You see something different?
Nope just took my glasses off lol. I'm a hopeless optimist maybe one glorious run for the ages. Would make a great story for this program. Guy comes back for his last year and wins it all.
 
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pawrestlersintn

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Let's hope all the starters, both teams, go Friday evening. If so, it will surely be the best dual game of the year so far (10..9..8..7..6..5.....). Cornell was close, but a couple PSU starters were missing. We are leaving Friday morning, and actually looking forward to both duals. Michigan State could give evidence of the team's energy level after a tough Friday night, though don't look for anything like what we'll see at NCAA's. Too early for that.
Instigator.
 

WreslingFan0314

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Jan 14, 2017
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I hope everyone had a chance to watch 10-12 hours worth of wrestling this past weekend like I did! It was glorious!

A few weeks back I posted about the 125lb weight class - let's take a quick look this morning! Appears that the horse race may be down to just 3! Suriano, Vito, Glory --- head-2-head, over the weekend, Glory beat up Courtney ... the right draw, Courtney is a HIGH AA ... not a finalist! Who's ready for Vito/Glory?!?

One quick thought on the PSU line-up! Brady Berge is a competitor! I must confess, I'm disappointed that he's at 165! I feel Edsell has been doing his part for the team and that 157 is a bigger hole that needs filled? Am I the only one?

Let's get back to the upcoming match with Michigan! I am excited for this match! 6pm on Friday night! WOW! Ranked wrestler after ranker wrestler on the list! How much hatred does Nicky Pushups have for Penn State? He's a brawler in the middle, Hildebrandt will have to fight to avoid being majored! Cam Amine hasn't participated in a few weeks for Michigan - does he come back against PSU? Hard to pick ONE match that I am looking forward to most? Lee/Micic? Starocci/Massa? Kerk/Parris? Just kidding! It's Brooks/Amine!!!! Olympic bronze medalist vs NCAA champ! That has my heart racing at 6am on a Monday! The right call, the wrong position, and Michigan can win this dual meet!!

Other thoughts that need to get out from between my ears! DeSanto was in street clothes on the bench. Shane Griffin, the 165lb returning NCAA champ is now wrestling 174. Fix pulling double duty on 2/12 for Ok St and Team USA! I will do a 1 month buy and cancel Flo just to watch that double header!

May I suggest subscribing to Flo Bowling? $30 monthly subscription available which gives you access to all Flo Sports.

A monthly PRO subscription is $30/mo., while annual PRO subscriptions are $150/yr. ($12.50/mo. prorated). Both monthly and annual PRO subscriptions on FloBowling.com unlock access to premium content across the entire FloSports network.
 

nitlion6

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Lets see if I can repeat my prediction performance from ASU:

125: Nick has looked tough so far this year. He has always been stingy with points and good in all 3 positions. I think he's been more aggressive this year than years past as well. Does he push for a major for the team, or does he just wrestle his match? I think it's the latter, and Drew is able to put on a good ride. 3-0 M

133: I've seen Ragusin look really good, and average. RBY has a way of making people look less than average. My only problem here is sometimes RBY goes out and tries to score 100 pts, and sometimes he doesn't. I think he's going to be pushing here since the team score could be close. RBY gets the major. 4-3 PSU

141: I think Micic at least majors anyone we have not named Lee, and that's being conservative. I'm taking the Lee will be back route. If Lee is healthy and no lingering sickness, he beats Micic. 7-3 PSU.

149: Not sure if Storr is done for the year or not. He hasn't wrestled since CKLV, but if he's going to come back before the post season, I could see it being for this dual. Using most recent information, I'm saying Mattin gets the call. I was right last time and I'm saying it again, with BB coming off a loss, he shows up and gets the win. 10-3 PSU.

157: Lewan will be a tough out for Tony, and after what I just witnessed, Lewan wins comfortably, but I don't think with bonus. 10-6 PSU

165: Another weight where I'm not quite sure who steps on the mat for Michigan or PSU for that matter. Amine hasn't gone since CKLV, but they need him here. If Amine goes, I'm saying he beats Brady this time around (hopefully the only time since I hope Brady is at 57). If Nolan goes, we get a win. I could see Edsell maybe going this time and Brady Sunday, or visa versa, but Brady needs matches so maybe not. Since I have to pick someone, I'm going with Nolan. 13-6 PSU.

174: Massa looked really tough against Smith, but I don't think he beats Starocci. 16-6 PSU

184: So many good matches, but this is the feature. After watching Brooks wrestle Poznanski, I think he's a step ahead of everyone else right now, and I there is no way I could pick against him. 19-6 PSU

197: Another good test for Dean. Brucki has lost twice this year, and mff twice at CKLV. His two losses are to Woodley and Buchanan, 4-2 and 2-1. He's coming off wins over Bonaccorsi, and Hoffman. He's putting together a good season, but I don't think he hits the trifecta. 22-9 PSU

285: Since 2020, Parris has beaten everyone not named Gable. He has 100% bonus on the year so far, but hasn't wrestled anyone in the top ten. Parris majored Kerk last year at BIGs, but Kerk is healthy this time around (knocks on wood). I don't think Kerk wins here, but I think it will be a much closer match than last time. 22-12 PSU.


I used Michigans line up they went with wrestling Ohio State. Amine could go at 65, and maybe someone has info on Storr, but since I haven't heard anything definitive, he could go at 49. Lee might not be back at 41, and I think Brady goes at 65, but could also see him and Edsell splitting time this weekend. If they're going to split time, I personally would wrestle Edsell against MSU, but who knows what the plan is.

This match can easily go the wrong direction for us. While I obviously don't think it will happen, it is realistic that the only match we win is 33. I know I'll probably get flack for that, but think about it. Is it completely out of the realm of possibility that Micic beats Lee, Mattin beats BB, Amine goes and beats Brady, Massa beats Carter, Amine beats Brooks, and Brucki beats Dean? Again, I don't think it will happen, but I still know it can.
Statistically, it is very unlikely that all those happen.
 
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nitlion6

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Do YOU see something different?
Nope, but in January 2017 I didn't see Cenzo pinning IMar to win the title either.
However, Cenzo told me right after the Illionis dual in Rec Hall that he would get him (IMar) before the end of the season.

What I do know is around the third week in March Penn State kids step up and achieve. Whether we saw it coming or not.
 

Pitchfork Rebel

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As a former undersized HWT, you probably then know HWT is a whole other ball of wax. 8 lbs can be a big deal at the other weights, and is virtually always a big deal at the lower weights.

Weight differential dictates style, and those who become accustomed to the difference earlier on in their careers are fine. But it is not an adjustment that cab be made on a dime.
My first match, I gave up 90 pounds, so yeah.

I was 193 (185 was the top weight) and the other kid was 283. I still remember then putting the balance scale on 250 and sliding it up and up...

(heavyweight was unlimited then, before the Thacker rule) and he was a ball of something. Four or five times I got in on his leg, but I might as well have been pulling on a Redwood.

I lost a close decision he escaped, I could not and was hero for not giving up bonus, even though it was JV.
 

RoarLions1

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It's only January 18. Still time for the coaches to get 157 and 165 settled. Time is winding down however, so who we see this weekend and next are key.

I had this discussion with a fellow board member recently. It's not who has the likelihood of scoring the most points at 157 OR 165, it's the best combo that has the likelihood of scoring the most combined points at 157 AND 165.
 

jack66

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It's only January 18. Still time for the coaches to get 157 and 165 settled. Time is winding down however, so who we see this weekend and next are key.

I had this discussion with a fellow board member recently. It's not who has the likelihood of scoring the most points at 157 OR 165, it's the best combo that has the likelihood of scoring the most combined points at 157 AND 165.

Hmmm ... when you post these little tidbits it always feels like you know something more than what you're sharing. :)
 
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dunkej01

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It's only January 18. Still time for the coaches to get 157 and 165 settled. Time is winding down however, so who we see this weekend and next are key.

I had this discussion with a fellow board member recently. It's not who has the likelihood of scoring the most points at 157 OR 165, it's the best combo that has the likelihood of scoring the most combined points at 157 AND 165.
So what your maybe implying is that with Brady, him going at 165 being 0+? is actually better than ?+NQ. You may just be right. Only time will tell.

I think edsall can qualify, I dont think Tony can. So the next question is what weight can Brady then get the most points. Conventional wisdom looks at the field at both weights and says 157 is clearly easier to AA on paper. 165 is a meat grinder, we all know that. Brady not being a big bonus guy further suggests he may have a hard time getting points on the backside at 165 compared to 157. So the common thought process of us keyboard warriors is Brady should suck down and go 157. That just may not be in the cards, due to factors outside of our intranet control. It is what it is, so well all just have to deal with it.

Whether it was Jim English, Shaq, Lawson, RS or not to RS etc, etc...Cael and the staff know exactly what they are doing and as far as Im concerned are playing with the houses money since they came to SC. So let it rip and lets go!
 

RoarLions1

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So what your maybe implying is that with Brady, him going at 165 being 0+? is actually better than ?+NQ. You may just be right. Only time will tell.

I think edsall can qualify, I dont think Tony can. So the next question is what weight can Brady then get the most points. Conventional wisdom looks at the field at both weights and says 157 is clearly easier to AA on paper. 165 is a meat grinder, we all know that. Brady not being a big bonus guy further suggests he may have a hard time getting points on the backside at 165 compared to 157. So the common thought process of us keyboard warriors is Brady should suck down and go 157. That just may not be in the cards, due to factors outside of our intranet control. It is what it is, so well all just have to deal with it.

Whether it was Jim English, Shaq, Lawson, RS or not to RS etc, etc...Cael and the staff know exactly what they are doing and as far as Im concerned are playing with the houses money since they came to SC. So let it rip and lets go!
This ^^
 

RoarLions1

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He certed at 165. You know how that works. Almost everyone certs a weight or two over where they eventually wrestle.
Not true. Certifications are final.

"As soon as the assessor and head coach confirm and accept the established minimum weight class, the certification is permanently saved and is unalterable."
 
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PSU Mike

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Not true. Certifications are final.

"As soon as the assessor and head coach confirm and accept the established minimum weight class, the certification is permanently saved and is unalterable."
That’s why I asked for clarification a few days back;

 

Biffkin

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Tony has earned the 157 spot, I think it's pretty clear at this point and barring a change of heart by Berge about going back down to 157, he will be our guy in the postseason. He's been our starter for all Big Ten duals, he didn't get sent to the Scuffle and he has gotten the toughest 157 assignments to date (Humphreys/Teemer) as well. He's going out there and scrapping and has given himself a chance in basically every match I've watched so far this year. Yes, he's not winning but as far as I'm concerned, he's shown way more than Bearclaw and Joe because he at least has a very reliable go to attack with the ankle pick.

I can see Claw potentially making a case for 157 being his spot since he's done pretty well in extra matches and can ride. Joe still enjoys those low percentage throws and fancy rolls off bottom and it's pretty clear he can't make 157 comfortably.
Right now, Tony is a 50/50 bet to even qualify.
 

RoarLions1

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He certed at 165. You know how that works. Almost everyone certs a weight or two over where they eventually wrestle.

Not true. Certifications are final.

"As soon as the assessor and head coach confirm and accept the established minimum weight class, the certification is permanently saved and is unalterable."

I’m talking the weights on track
You said "He certed at 165". The information on Track are not certifications, and are simply labeled "Wt. Class". I do understand, though it adds to fellow fans' confusion when it's called something it's not. Here's a better definition, to minimize confusion.

The weight listed on Track is always the weight at the time of certification. Not his minimum weight for the year.

Almost always the wrestler can compete 1 class lower, quite often 2 lower, occasionally 3 lower.
 
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KCLion

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It's only January 18. Still time for the coaches to get 157 and 165 settled. Time is winding down however, so who we see this weekend and next are key.

I had this discussion with a fellow board member recently. It's not who has the likelihood of scoring the most points at 157 OR 165, it's the best combo that has the likelihood of scoring the most combined points at 157 AND 165.
I’ll preface this with the “if Brady can comfortably and is certified to make 157” and from what I’ve seen so far:

I believe this is the best situation for Brady and the team; best finish for Brady and most combined team points.

I think Brady was on track for high finish last year and I think that he could certainly AA and possibly be top 4 at the weight this year. 165 will be a grind and yes, he will score, but AA would not be a given.

I believe Edsel can qualify and potentially win a few points in March.

I like our other 157s, but I don’t know if any of the 3 or 4 are likely to qualify or if they do score as many team points as Edsel would in March.
 

GogglesPaizano

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Right now, Tony is a 50/50 bet to even qualify.

I really wish Tony had held on that last match, I don't see him at 50/50 at this point in time, maybe 25/75.

So others help me out here. He probably gets one of the top 15 nationally ranked kids in the first round of Bigs which will likely be a loss, so his chances to qualify for Nationals will come down to how he does on the backside. Unless he wins twice in a row he would probably be out - correct?

With his current record I don't see his situation as that much different form Beau's last year. BB certainly deserved a trip to nationals but the bad draw at Bigs killed it.

Sure Negron has been so close against a number of good wrestlers, but a cupboard full of close losses isn't going to get him there in terms of a decent seed.

On the other hand I, feel much better about Edsel's chances to qualify. He to still needs a win or two at Bigs, of which he is capable.

Thoughts on the kind of draw Berge might get at Bigs as well if he goes 165?

I am concerned and would sleep more soundly if Brady were at 157 even with no matches behind him going into the conference tourney.

Granted Cael knows exactly what he wants to do and why, I still wrestle with my own thoughts. Despite their near deity status in my eyes, the coaches made a mistake with Beau last year. Had he a half dozen more matches at 149 before Bigs his seed would have been different and he probably qualifies.

Am I wrong, let me have it?
 

BruceK-PSU83

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Based on what we've seen so far from the various parties, it seems pretty obvious - the best lineup for PSU is Berge at 157 and Edsell at 165. Whether Berge can descend to 157, and be effective, are the caveats.

If "no", then PSU probably doesn't qualify at 157, and it probably becomes a question of who is better at 165, Berge or Edsell. Berge has the better "pedigree", but at this moment 'm not sure is an improvement over Edsell. Maybe that will change in the next month or so.
 
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nerfstate

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Sorry for the double-post, but:

I think we all just need to embrace Brady at 165. Assuming he beats Creighton--I think he should, based on what we saw Sunday.
 

pish69

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You said "He certed at 165". The information on Track are not certifications, and are simply labeled "Wt. Class". I do understand, though it adds to fellow fans' confusion when it's called something it's not. Here's a better definition, to minimize confusion.
Maybe I am confused..tell me where I'm wrong.

track lists 165 as the weight (meaning he weighed in anywhere from 157.1 to 165). WesttoEast asked what weight he certed at. I say 165 and you say I'm wrong?

What did I say that was wrong? It's my understanding that once you weigh in you can descend down per week if you wanted to go lower just like everyone else listed on track. So in other words, he can wrestle 165 right away (which he did), or depending on what he weighed in at, he could possible try to descend down to a lower weight class given the 1.5% per week

I'm not trying to be argumentative..just assumed the way I described is how it worked. Trying to understand what I'm missing?
 

GogglesPaizano

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Yep. Brady 'certifying' at 165 only means he is was between 157.1 and 165. If he so desires to go down to 157, that action will be governed by a decent plan. Certifying in no way fixes his weight at 165 for the season.

I will remain on an island and say his target is 157 despite the breadcrumbs we have been fed.

Given the relative strengths of the two weight classes and Edsel vs Negron's performances to date it seems Brady at 157 makes the most sense for potential team points.

The only reason to keep Brady up at 165 is if Brady himself doesn't want to do the decent. For all we know he was walking around at 175 a few weeks ago and has already had to cut to get down to 165. I don't think so, but it is possible.
 
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