New freshman participation rules, who’s greenlit ?

[83wuzme]

Freshmen can now play in up to four games without burning a redshirt. They can be in any four or fewer games during the season. I am wondering how and when this changes who we see during the season ?
Guys I expected to see play as freshmen this season: Luketa, Parsons, Slade, Shorter, Pinegar and maybe Friermuth.
Guys I now also expect to see sometime during the 2018 season : Mustipher, George, Oweh, Tarburton, Kuntz, Dotson, Miner, Humphries.

 

[interrobang]

Well everyone's a green light now.

Just now you have 4 buckets

Always green - guys that were already going to play
Early green - guys that you want to play early to see if they can hack it past game 4
Late green - guys that aren't ready in September, but will be in November
Reward green - guys that were dark yellows or even reds that you just want to throw a bone to to get them on the field

 

[Option Bob]

Barring injury or recovery from prior injury, is there a disadvantage to having all true freshmen see action in 4 games?

I do understand the “not physically ready” argument, but other than bulking OL, I would guess that playing time for everyone else would be a positive. And giving the freshmen the allotted 4 games might help recruiting, especially at positions where the depth chart is stacked.

Looking forward to hearing opinions on this topic.

 

[royboy]

Barring injury or recovery from prior injury, is there a disadvantage to having all true freshmen see action in 4 games?

I do understand the “not physically ready” argument, but other than bulking OL, I would guess that playing time for everyone else would be a positive. And giving the freshmen the allotted 4 games might help recruiting, especially at positions where the depth chart is stacked.

Looking forward to hearing opinions on this topic.

The disadvantage IMO would be if they're not ready to play in a meaningful situation. A true freshman who is not on the 1st or 2nd string on the depth chart wouldn't seem to merit playing time. Perhaps late in blow-out games, but I don't think the rule change will enable ALL the scholarship freshmen to see game action. Just my take.

 

[Option Bob]

Good points, Interrobang and Roy. Of course. Franklin and staff will make the calls once September rolls around, but we fans can still speculate

Synthesizing your points, I’m going to make a few wild guesses as we near the end of June. The “green light” categories c/o Interrobang.

1. Always green: Parsons, Slade, Shorter, Luketa, Pinegar.

2. Early green: Dotson, Freiermuth, Humphries, Miner, Gordon, Oweh, Tarburton, Mustipher, Culpepper

3. Late green: Kuntz, George, Aseidu, Katshir, Walker

4. Maybe late if ready as a reward: Scruggs, Hawkins

5. Not at all: Levis and Effner

I’m certainly not trying to play Head Coach: just summer guessing until the next round of “We are ... better.”

 

[SUPERTODD]

Wonder if this might be further incentive to schedule more cream puffs? It would seem to be a recruiting advantage to pitch, “you will play, AT LEAST, four games your freshman year” to elite recruits. However a coach would not want to jeopardize the chance of victory against a quality opponent, but it would be easier to play freshman against crap teams like Kent State, Akron, East Akron (Pitt) etc and not have to worry about the outcome.

 

[djr4rebs]

Cream puffs or not, opportunity will arise. If you are getting beat by 3 TDs, why not play these kids? I think you get a better sense of what a kid can do when you mix players of 1, 2, 3s on the depth chart than simply throwing the entire second unit in.

 

[Nit777]

The disadvantage IMO would be if they're not ready to play in a meaningful situation. A true freshman who is not on the 1st or 2nd string on the depth chart wouldn't seem to merit playing time. Perhaps late in blow-out games, but I don't think the rule change will enable ALL the scholarship freshmen to see game action. Just my take.

I agree with this.

Basically, freshmen are the 4th string. Early in a season, you still need to give your first string extra work in an early blow out. There are only so many available snaps for second or third teamers, much less the fourth team.

There are about five players who are not destined for any type of redshirt and will see meaningful snaps from the first game onward. Some others will see snaps in early games that they would not have seen before the rule change. Freiermuth is an example if Bowers, et al are injured as Freiermuth may be the starting TE by mid season if all goes wrong with TE upper classmen.

Others, at positions of poor depth, may be held out of early games to have depth should a starter get hurt in ay the 4th or 5th game, after which the frosh may get a lot of minutes, but would not be available if he got a couple of plays here or there in the first 4 games. Culpepper is a name and a position which comes to mind.

Some may never play in their first year.

I think this is a tricky rule for coaches and presents opportunity for some locker room discord if some players think they are not getting their minutes.

However, I think it fits well with Franklin's goal of having players move on after 3/4 years to keep clearing space for ever more highly rated incoming frosh.

 

[PSU Soupy]

Cream puffs or not, opportunity will arise. If you are getting beat by 3 TDs, why not play these kids? I think you get a better sense of what a kid can do when you mix players of 1, 2, 3s on the depth chart than simply throwing the entire second unit in.

3 TDs down with the Wizard of Camelot.....we got em, right where we want them. Only the always green would play.

Your point is a good one....if the game is determined put them in get them a taste for the action and you can still redshirt. If the player is a 260 lb. Offensive Lineman they would not be physically ready and could get someone hurt if they are on the field, or if a player is making a lot of mental errors that could also get someone hurt and you go the traditional redshirt route.

 

[interrobang]

Well there definitely will be that 5th bucket, the green tomatoes.

Guys that just simply aren't ready to play, even if they've done all they should be doing to reach that reward green bucket. Plus getting a freshman QB in the game would be tough.

 

[Ceasar]

I wonder if an unintended effect of this rule will be more transfers. It seems obvious more true FR will play since they won’t lose their redshirt simply by appearing in a game or two.
So if a kid does not play st all, do they conclude that the staff does not view them as highly as others? If you are a FR LB, for example , and you don’t play at all while 2-3 other FR play the 4 games, I can see some kids will transfer out while they still have 4 years left.

 

[83wuzme]

The thing is, if you are going to play more true freshmen, you are going to practice them differently. You can’t take a guy who has been on the scout team and put him on the field expecting him to kmow the playbook or how to make all of the reads.

 

[hotmetal]

The rule will maximize a coach's ability to use his roster but It is not a silver bullet, especially for Franklin, who believes in sound fundamentals.

 

[PearlSUJam]

The real question is what would Joe have done had this rule come out 20 years ago?

 

[JWB389]

They've essentially granted an extra 1/3 year of eligibility. Sort of like NASCAR, they're going to tinker with it until it's no longer the college football we knew.

 

[interrobang]

I wonder if an unintended effect of this rule will be more transfers. It seems obvious more true FR will play since they won’t lose their redshirt simply by appearing in a game or two.
So if a kid does not play st all, do they conclude that the staff does not view them as highly as others? If you are a FR LB, for example , and you don’t play at all while 2-3 other FR play the 4 games, I can see some kids will transfer out while they still have 4 years left.

That wouldn't change anything with eligibility though. If you transfer, you've only got 3 years to play in that scenario.

 

[heckmans]

I wonder if an unintended effect of this rule will be more transfers. It seems obvious more true FR will play since they won’t lose their redshirt simply by appearing in a game or two.
So if a kid does not play st all, do they conclude that the staff does not view them as highly as others? If you are a FR LB, for example , and you don’t play at all while 2-3 other FR play the 4 games, I can see some kids will transfer out while they still have 4 years left.

I think it comes down to JF setting expectations and communicating with the players. I'm sure he was already having convos about redshirt decisions. Now he just has to expand the convo.
I can see a strategy where kids at positions of depth, that are deep on the depth chart, get non-meaningful snaps early to get a little experience because you have no plans for them to contribute in meaningful situations. Then you have kids at positions that lack depth, but are more ready. You may want to redshirt them, but realize they would be called on in the case of a 2-deep injury. Let's say a starting linebacker is out for 2 weeks. This kid could move into the 2 deep for these 2 games, contribute and not burn a year of eligibility. If they play early, it limits flexibility and kids could lose a year of eligibility over 1 or two games.

Or..Franklin might just say F it, play with the same next man up mentality and consider these 4 games to be a bonus.

 

[gregoryj95]

A few thoughts:

1. Kids will see the field who otherwise would not have. No doubt. This is a positive. Seems like some are worried that the opportunity to play earlier is going to create an expectation to play, a sense of entitlement to live game time.
2. That is NOT going to happen with this staff. Because...
3. Nobody is entitled to a single snap, and that is drilled into the team from the moment they arrive on campus. Players are still going to have to earn their stripe. Nobody plays before they are ready.
4. But now the staff has some flexibility. Give kids more chances to impress. Plug in a younger player if someone gets dinged early in the season, or if someone gets knocked out late in the season, without burning a redshirt. Gone is the agony of deciding whether to burn a year of eligibility if someone goes down in the bowl game.
5. But it's not going to be a huge change in snap distribution. First team still needs first team game reps, and non-starters who have been in the program 2-3 years will still get reps before the younglings.
6. We're gonna have some solid contributions from this loaded 2018 class, and others have done a good job of laying that out. It's also a testament to the developing depth of the team that so many of these studs don't have to be called on to start right away, but can develop naturally as the season progresses.

 

[sluggo72]

the question I have is, will this bring back JV teams? Now you wont have to worry about burning a year by bringing in some outside comp to work against the scout team, R/S, walk on guys. What a great way to spend a Monday afternoon, with say the boys from Last Chance U, or Va Military Academy playing your scout team guys, and not wasting a year.

 

[tboyer]

I guess the question is how well will PSU play against the noncon opponents. If they can solidly control the games against App State, Kent State, Illinois, the coaches can rotate generously and a lot of freshmen could play.

But the priority has to be on preparing the two-deep so it might be less than we think. They will have a million things to fix, especially on D, before Ohio State comes to town.

I wonder if maybe the big games for freshman participation might be Rutgers and Maryland at the end of the season.

 

[djr4rebs]

I wonder if maybe the big games for freshman participation might be Rutgers and Maryland at the end of the season

Take the whole "burn it / don't burn it" conversation about Fries in late '16. He would have saw some time then if he had 4 games eligibility.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I think the players in past years that were yellow lights now get to see some time earlier to see how they respond. That will give the staff some time to coach them up from real life situations and correct some of their early mistakes. Players that were definite shirts may see some mop up time possibly, but nothing will be guaranteed there.

 

[Art]

I think the players in past years that were yellow lights now get to see some time earlier to see how they respond. That will give the staff some time to coach them up from real life situations and correct some of their early mistakes. Players that were definite shirts may see some mop up time possibly, but nothing will be guaranteed there.

If nothing else, it gives the coaches considerably more flexibility with special teams.

 

[Chris92]

The conference will still have limits on travel squads. The special teams for home games is where you could see them get time. Why not use a FR. DB that didnt make the 2 deep to cover a kick and rest John Reid? We should know how our season looks right after the Sparty game and can make the appropriate RS decisions then.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

If nothing else, it gives the coaches considerably more flexibility with special teams.

True. At the very least some guys can cut their teeth there.

 

[Obliviax]

Basically, if gives players five years of eligibility.

Obviously, there are some very good true frosh that are unaffected. But it allows a coach to give a lot of spot time to kids. We've seen a lot of blown redshirts because of a lot of injury to a single position.

The other thing that comes to mind is back when Franklin said that our second team QB might not play because he didn't want to burn a shirt. It is very possible, likely in fact, that true frosh will be given time to show what they can do over a backup Jr or So.

 

[Sproul]

Cream puffs or not, opportunity will arise. If you are getting beat by 3 TDs, why not play these kids? I think you get a better sense of what a kid can do when you mix players of 1, 2, 3s on the depth chart than simply throwing the entire second unit in.

Teams losing by 3 touchdowns to pitt come back to win all the time, especially back when they used to be in bowls.

 

[interrobang]

The conference will still have limits on travel squads. The special teams for home games is where you could see them get time. Why not use a FR. DB that didnt make the 2 deep to cover a kick and rest John Reid? We should know how our season looks right after the Sparty game and can make the appropriate RS decisions then.

Though there are redshirting guys on the travel squad. Just now you don't fear actually having to play them

 

[GregInPitt]

Good points, Interrobang and Roy. Of course. Franklin and staff will make the calls once September rolls around, but we fans can still speculate

Synthesizing your points, I’m going to make a few wild guesses as we near the end of June. The “green light” categories c/o Interrobang.

1. Always green: Parsons, Slade, Shorter, Luketa, Pinegar.

2. Early green: Dotson, Freiermuth, Humphries, Miner, Gordon, Oweh, Tarburton, Mustipher, Culpepper

3. Late green: Kuntz, George, Aseidu, Katshir, Walker

4. Maybe late if ready as a reward: Scruggs, Hawkins

5. Not at all: Levis and Effner

I’m certainly not trying to play Head Coach: just summer guessing until the next round of “We are ... better.”

I don't see Tarburton as any more likely to play than Hawkins. DE is one of the deepest positions and Tarburton is in the process of adding the weight he needs to be good at DE....... I also doubt that Culpepper plays more than the 4 games he is allowed, as he still needs to build his body to a DT's size.

 

[Zone-Blitz]

Good points, Interrobang and Roy. Of course. Franklin and staff will make the calls once September rolls around, but we fans can still speculate

Synthesizing your points, I’m going to make a few wild guesses as we near the end of June. The “green light” categories c/o Interrobang.

1. Always green: Parsons, Slade, Shorter, Luketa, Pinegar.

2. Early green: Dotson, Freiermuth, Humphries, Miner, Gordon, Oweh, Tarburton, Mustipher, Culpepper

3. Late green: Kuntz, George, Aseidu, Katshir, Walker

4. Maybe late if ready as a reward: Scruggs, Hawkins

5. Not at all: Levis and Effner

I’m certainly not trying to play Head Coach: just summer guessing until the next round of “We are ... better.”

I would put Oweh as not ready at all. I think he’s got huge upside but still very raw and needs a year or 2 of weight training and coaching, like Shane Simmons did. Humphries won’t be needed this year unless they want to give him time on special teams for 4 games