NCAA proposes no MINIMUM TEST SCORES 2022

bvillebaron

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Feb 4, 2004
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SAT’s are achievement tests, not intelligence tests, which is why they correlate to income (who can spend money on tutors and resources that teach to the test among other benefits of wealth). Intelligence tests are about ability, which is not correlated to income, race, location, etc, and tend to stay static.

I have access to a tool that shows individual student acceptances to universities on a graph and it’s clear most just ignore the SAT now and admit based on grades. Additionally, most colleges strip away the high school’s GPA because every district calculates it differently and recalculates a GPA themselves…that’s what they use. When it comes down to it, the best predictor of how a student will perform in college is how they performed in high school.

College Board is basically a money-making scam that has no predictive value. Most standardized test companies are like this, with practice tests and study tools you can buy and practices for the practice and so on.
So how exactly does a college recalculate s kid’s high school GPA? Dart board?
 
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Art

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May 29, 2001
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Thanks Art - She won't be going to PSU - wants to exit the state of PA - he older sister is already at School in Savannah and this one wants to head to the West Coast - with the cost of PSU npw there is really no reason to try to keep them in state any longer - out of state schools are almost the same price in many cases.

You're welcome and good luck to your daughter.

I'm relating what the guidance office at the school where my wife teaches has told her. Best advice I can provide is for your daughter to research what the schools in which she has interest want.

It would also be to her advantage to do well on a standardized test and present the results. Again, what we've heard is that kids who send (good) scores have an advantage over those that don't. Impossible to say how much of an advantage, but it gives admissions officers another data point by which to differentiate. To put it in it's crudest form, say an admissions officer has two candidates with credentials that are near identical. The officer can only offer one. One provides an acceptable test score, the other provides nothing. Guess who is likely to get the offer?
 
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heckmans

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Feb 13, 2006
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Nothing could be more racist and harmful to unmotivated HS kids. It assumes black kids are incapable to perform academically so we will let them into college anyway to be fair. Their assumption is false, their motives noble but their recommendation is racist and harmful to black kids. So sad. Just another surrender to the street culture

Hey Hey Hey, Mary. Let's check your privilege and remember the words of our country's President, "Poor kids are just as smart as white kids." We don't need standards to confirm that a HS athlete is capable of being a college student.

 
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heckmans

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It’s not like the minimum SAT score required was y difficult to reach. It just takes a minimum of effort. If you can’t get that level, college probably isn’t for you.
IDK, but this sounds racist ;)
 

BobPSU92

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May 6, 2015
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Hey Hey Hey, Mary. Let's check your privilege and remember the words of our country's President, "Poor kids are just as smart as white kids." We don't need standards to confirm that a HS athlete is capable of being a college student.


White privilege ain’t what it used to be.

o_O
 

heckmans

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Feb 13, 2006
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I wonder how many other school districts have done like my daughter's and mandated every new hire, including clerical work, requires a college degree. I was talking with one of the two secretaries there and she doesn't have a college degree. She's been there almost twenty years, practically runs the place (my observation and the principals, not her bravado), and would not be eligible to get to work there if she applied today. Even worse, she's no longer eligible to apply for similar jobs there that might be slightly higher up the chain. Apparently that's what school districts think of their own education that they provide.
We are absolutely over-educated (perhaps over-degreed is a better term). The lies young gen-x and millennials were told about the necessity of a college degree led to an over-supply of college educated people. Employers responded to the market and began requiring a bachelors degree instead of a HS diploma. It's far cheaper for an employer to hire a 22 yo who has demonstrated the ability to stick with 4 years of college vs investing in training an 18yo.

Even worse, it led to an abundance of partially-educated individuals with no degree, student debt and lack of access to many jobs that historically didn't require a degree.

I mean, seriously, can you imaging getting a Bachelor's degree and winding up as a secretary in an elementary school? Nothing wrong with the job, but certainly doesn't require a degree and frankly, doesn't justify the expense of a college degree.
 

YYZ86

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Jun 17, 2013
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SAT’s are achievement tests, not intelligence tests, which is why they correlate to income (who can spend money on tutors and resources that teach to the test among other benefits of wealth). Intelligence tests are about ability, which is not correlated to income, race, location, etc, and tend to stay static.

I have access to a tool that shows individual student acceptances to universities on a graph and it’s clear most just ignore the SAT now and admit based on grades. Additionally, most colleges strip away the high school’s GPA because every district calculates it differently and recalculates a GPA themselves…that’s what they use. When it comes down to it, the best predictor of how a student will perform in college is how they performed in high school.

College Board is basically a money-making scam that has no predictive value. Most standardized test companies are like this, with practice tests and study tools you can buy and practices for the practice and so on.
The SAT was originally designed from an Army IQ test. The SAT score and IQ score correlates at around .86 with a low of around .75 after recentering while high school GPA and IQ at .50. I am not arguing student success because too many variables.
 

Woodpecker

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May 29, 2001
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Should this board have some kind of test to impose a minimum intelligence level? If so, do we go with those above the line or below it?
 

ryoder1

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Feb 17, 2007
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It’s not like the minimum SAT score required was y difficult to reach. It just takes a minimum of effort. If you can’t get that level, college probably isn’t for you.
I realize that a 400 score is very low and should be very easy to attain but if the average student now does not even need to take the SAT to be admitted why does an athlete need to? Come up with a different metric to assess the academic capabilities of these athletes. GPA is one and maybe the only one. Maybe raise it to 2.5 so it gets a little closer but still way off from what the average student would need to get into PSU for example.
 

Art

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May 29, 2001
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I realize that a 400 score is very low and should be very easy to attain but if the average student now does not even need to take the SAT to be admitted why does an athlete need to? Come up with a different metric to assess the academic capabilities of these athletes. GPA is one and maybe the only one. Maybe raise it to 2.5 so it gets a little closer but still way off from what the average student would need to get into PSU for example.
FYI, the current minimum core GPA to qualify under NCAA standards is 2.3.
 
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schoolie

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Oct 23, 2001
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Dropping test scores for athletes entering college will damage College Sports & K-12.

Both college & K-12 require some academic performance from students wanting to participate in extracurricular sport and activities.
No entry test scores for college entry is opening the door isn’t just damaging to athletes but to all students. Having more students taking remedial HS courses in College doesn’t help anyone.

One step closer to just calling it “minor league football.” Shameful but apparently the NCAA doesn’t care.
 

Art

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And I thought the minimum was 2.0 ⛹️‍♀️⛹️‍♂️

We're both right. Let's turn the clock back to the terms "full qualifier" and "partial qualifier." To be a full qualifier (eligible to receive financial aid, practice, and play), the minimum average is 2.3. Below 2.3 down to 2.0 is the "partial qualifier"......oops, dirty term......academic redshirt range, which means you can pay the kid and he can practice, but he can't play.
 
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NittanyLionRoar

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May 17, 2011
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So are most Colleges going with 100% GPA? Curious since i have a Sophomore in High School now.
The biggest weight a college gives is to the student's grades, the rigor of their classes, and the student essays. There are problems with the SAT (correlates with income, not success in college) and recommendations (some counselors/teachers are just crappy writers or didn't know the kid that well). While colleges may allow the SAT or recommendations to be submitted, they use it as a datapoint in tie-breakers or for their waitlists. However, I'm hearing more and more that colleges aren't even looking at the SAT score or recommendations. But it certainly depends on the individual college and every one seems to be doing something a little different right now.

The best thing a kid can do if they want to get in their dream school: Push themselves to take rigorous classes (honors, AP, world language, challenging electives) in classes they enjoy and are good at, but don't overschedule/overwhelm themselves. Push that line but don't cross it because it doesn't help to take a bunch of AP's and get D's and F's. The next thing is for students to be involved in extracurriculars and community service where they have an opportunity to put their knowledge and skills to use in real-world situations. They have much stronger applications if they can speak in their essays (and the recommender in their recommendations) to their leadership, supporting their community, skills they learned outside the classroom, their commitment to practice (sports, competitive academic clubs), etc.
 

NittanyLionRoar

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May 17, 2011
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So how exactly does a college recalculate s kid’s high school GPA? Dart board?
They do a simple, traditional GPA calculation with no weighting. Most high schools use a weighted GPA to give a boost to honors and AP classes, but they all do it differently, so it really isn't informative at all to how a student did in school. Some schools in California give double GPA's to students who take AP classes. Why should a college favor a student with their 7.5 GPA from California over a student from the suburbs of Philadelphia who has a 4.4 GPA after taking 10 AP classes (with a 1.0 weighting), over a student from rural PA who has a 3.9 GPA because their school doesn't have AP classes?
 

step.eng69

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Nov 7, 2012
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North East PA, Backmountain area, age 72
We're both right. Let's turn the clock back to the terms "full qualifier" and "partial qualifier." To be a full qualifier (eligible to receive financial aid, practice, and play), the minimum average is 2.3. Below 2.3 down to 2.0 is the "partial qualifier"......oops, dirty term......academic redshirt range, which means you can pay the kid and he can practice, but he can't play.
Thank you Art
 

91Joe95

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Aug 15, 2003
28,547
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Should this board have some kind of test to impose a minimum intelligence level? If so, do we go with those above the line or below it?

If you go with on the line it provides the fewest number of posters.
 

Lion84

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Apr 10, 2015
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The biggest weight a college gives is to the student's grades, the rigor of their classes, and the student essays. There are problems with the SAT (correlates with income, not success in college) and recommendations (some counselors/teachers are just crappy writers or didn't know the kid that well). While colleges may allow the SAT or recommendations to be submitted, they use it as a datapoint in tie-breakers or for their waitlists. However, I'm hearing more and more that colleges aren't even looking at the SAT score or recommendations. But it certainly depends on the individual college and every one seems to be doing something a little different right now.

The best thing a kid can do if they want to get in their dream school: Push themselves to take rigorous classes (honors, AP, world language, challenging electives) in classes they enjoy and are good at, but don't overschedule/overwhelm themselves. Push that line but don't cross it because it doesn't help to take a bunch of AP's and get D's and F's. The next thing is for students to be involved in extracurriculars and community service where they have an opportunity to put their knowledge and skills to use in real-world situations. They have much stronger applications if they can speak in their essays (and the recommender in their recommendations) to their leadership, supporting their community, skills they learned outside the classroom, their commitment to practice (sports, competitive academic clubs), etc.
Thanks - This is really helpful. She is pretty much a straight A student and has a few AP classes and is on the Varsity Basketball Team so it sounds like she is on the right path.
 

BobPSU92

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May 6, 2015
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I realize that a 400 score is very low and should be very easy to attain but if the average student now does not even need to take the SAT to be admitted why does an athlete need to? Come up with a different metric to assess the academic capabilities of these athletes.

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