NCAA proposes no MINIMUM TEST SCORES 2022

psu7113

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The NCAA is acknowledging the academic ideal of big time college athletics is a joke. They're likely trying to get out ahead of any future lawsuits which will claim someone is being denied the opportunity to play college football or basketball. The suit would highlight the multiple instances of the NCAA ignoring academic shenanigans of certain member schools. The NCAA doesn't want to air that laundry.
Any right thinking judge (the number of those is dwindling by the day) would throw out such a groundless suit at the outset. It would be nice to be able to say that no right thinking lawyer would ever file such a groundless suit, but sadly the number of right thinking lawyers is dwindling even faster. Money and politics prevail over sense and justice far too often. Private institutions don’t have to treat people equally (except with respect to race, gender, disability, etc.). They are free to “discriminate.” By the NCAA’s tortured logic, no school should have admissions or participation’s standards for any student. All prospective students who apply would have to be admitted and could not be held to any sort of standards while enrolled. The NCAA is a confederacy of dunces.
 

AWS1022

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Not sure how they could require a minimum score from an athlete yet the average Joe doesn't even have to take the SAT. I get the point that there needs to be some kind of way of assessing that the athlete is academically ready for college. Not confident the minimum score on the SAT was a good metric anyway.

I have the utmost confidence in the world that hypocrite clown boy Emmert will figure this out. After all look at the role model university, LSU, that he helped steer into the cesspool.
It’s not like the minimum SAT score required was y difficult to reach. It just takes a minimum of effort. If you can’t get that level, college probably isn’t for you.
 

jack66

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May 29, 2001
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Next up.

No minimum GPA and no minimum advancement toward a degree.

The forward-thinking SEC had it right all along.:rolleyes:
 

NittanyLionRoar

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Dropping test scores for athletes entering college will damage College Sports & K-12.

Both college & K-12 require some academic performance from students wanting to participate in extracurricular sport and activities.
No entry test scores for college entry is opening the door isn’t just damaging to athletes but to all students. Having more students taking remedial HS courses in College doesn’t help anyone.

I'm a high school counselor. Most colleges aren't requiring test scores anymore, so this is just the norm for all students entering college at this point. Kids can still take the test and have the option to submit them (and a few still require them), but test scores haven't really correlated with student success, so not a lot of weight is put on them anymore.
 

91Joe95

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Nothing could be more racist and harmful to unmotivated HS kids. It assumes black kids are incapable to perform academically so we will let them into college anyway to be fair. Their assumption is false, their motives noble but their recommendation is racist and harmful to black kids. So sad. Just another surrender to the street culture

Mary, Mary, Mary... you just don't appreciate the race to the bottom some people are taking. They say they care, so it's not racist. Words are more important, way more, than actions.
 

PennStatePigskin

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I'm a high school counselor. Most colleges aren't requiring test scores anymore, so this is just the norm for all students entering college at this point. Kids can still take the test and have the option to submit them (and a few still require them), but test scores haven't really correlated with student success, so not a lot of weight is put on them anymore.
Because colleges have adopted no standards doesn’t make it good for America.

What about K-12 ? Shouldn’t there be academic performance requirements to participate in extra Curricular activities?

Without academic requirements C or D, some will ignore academics entirely but just wanna play ball. D is pretty much doing that counselor. No?
 

91Joe95

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Because colleges have adopted no standards doesn’t make it good for America.

What about K-12 ? Shouldn’t there be academic performance requirements to participate in extra Curricular activities?

Without academic requirements C or D, some will ignore academics entirely but just wanna play ball. D is pretty much doing that counselor. No?

I wonder how many other school districts have done like my daughter's and mandated every new hire, including clerical work, requires a college degree. I was talking with one of the two secretaries there and she doesn't have a college degree. She's been there almost twenty years, practically runs the place (my observation and the principals, not her bravado), and would not be eligible to get to work there if she applied today. Even worse, she's no longer eligible to apply for similar jobs there that might be slightly higher up the chain. Apparently that's what school districts think of their own education that they provide.
 
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Nbergbuck

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Dropping test scores for athletes entering college will damage College Sports & K-12.

Both college & K-12 require some academic performance from students wanting to participate in extracurricular sport and activities.
No entry test scores for college entry is opening the door isn’t just damaging to athletes but to all students. Having more students taking remedial HS courses in College doesn’t help anyone.

Didn't a judge somewhere rule that scholarship athletes are employees of the school? The next logical step is to not require athletes to take classes at all. The employee cutting grass doesn't have to go to school. The transition from student athlete to pro will be complete.
 

Art

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Didn't a judge somewhere rule that scholarship athletes are employees of the school? The next logical step is to not require athletes to take classes at all. The employee cutting grass doesn't have to go to school. The transition from student athlete to pro will be complete.

It was an opinion issued by the General Counsel of the NLRB and it doesn't interfere with an employer's ability to set terms of employment.
 
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MtNittany

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YYZ86

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I'm a high school counselor. Most colleges aren't requiring test scores anymore, so this is just the norm for all students entering college at this point. Kids can still take the test and have the option to submit them (and a few still require them), but test scores haven't really correlated with student success, so not a lot of weight is put on them anymore.
SAT is basically an intelligence test like an IQ test. They of course cannot predict work ethic. As for predicting student success, it isn't simple. Students with low SAT scores who major in less rigorous majors can of course have a higher GPA than those that major in more rigorous majors. Of course the college matters as well. Since it is very hard to do a multi-variate study for anything in education, most studies are completely meaningless. I am not arguing that test scores predict student success, but I also wouldn't argue that they don't.
 
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Art

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SAT is basically an intelligence test like an IQ test. They of course cannot predict work ethic. As for predicting student success, it isn't simple. Students with low SAT scores who major in less rigorous majors can of course have a higher GPA than those that major in more rigorous majors. Of course the college matters as well. Since it is very hard to do a multi-variate study for anything in education, most studies are completely meaningless. I am not arguing that test scores predict student success, but I also wouldn't argue that they don't.

It has been demonstrated that standardized test scores track closely to one factor, family income.
 

YYZ86

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It has been demonstrated that standardized test scores track closely to one factor, family income.
Yes. Colleges always need to have a way of knowing who can afford to pay the bill. They accept enough of those first, and then can round out their class however they want. My post was about predicting success.
 

Art

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Yes. Colleges always need to have a way of knowing who can afford to pay the bill. They accept enough of those first, and then can round out their class however they want. My post was about predicting success.
Colleges rely much more on zipcode to guess who can afford to pay

As for sucess, good luck trying to define it.
 

YYZ86

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Colleges rely much more on zipcode to guess who can afford to pay

As for sucess, good luck trying to define it.
You may be right, but I have been told different. My knowledge is anecdotal only. As for success, I agree. What most of the studies call success is GPA.
 

Art

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You may be right, but I have been told different. My knowledge is anecdotal only. As for success, I agree. What most of the studies call success is GPA.
The correlation between SAT scores and family income only holds when analyzing large numbers. On an individual level, which is where colleges guess who can pay, it's far less compelling and far less than zip code.

"Most studies" define success as GPA?!? Lot of wasted time and paper.
 
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NittanyLionRoar

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SAT is basically an intelligence test like an IQ test. They of course cannot predict work ethic. As for predicting student success, it isn't simple. Students with low SAT scores who major in less rigorous majors can of course have a higher GPA than those that major in more rigorous majors. Of course the college matters as well. Since it is very hard to do a multi-variate study for anything in education, most studies are completely meaningless. I am not arguing that test scores predict student success, but I also wouldn't argue that they don't.
SAT’s are achievement tests, not intelligence tests, which is why they correlate to income (who can spend money on tutors and resources that teach to the test among other benefits of wealth). Intelligence tests are about ability, which is not correlated to income, race, location, etc, and tend to stay static.

I have access to a tool that shows individual student acceptances to universities on a graph and it’s clear most just ignore the SAT now and admit based on grades. Additionally, most colleges strip away the high school’s GPA because every district calculates it differently and recalculates a GPA themselves…that’s what they use. When it comes down to it, the best predictor of how a student will perform in college is how they performed in high school.

College Board is basically a money-making scam that has no predictive value. Most standardized test companies are like this, with practice tests and study tools you can buy and practices for the practice and so on.
 

PSUEngineer89

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I'm a high school counselor. Most colleges aren't requiring test scores anymore, so this is just the norm for all students entering college at this point. Kids can still take the test and have the option to submit them (and a few still require them), but test scores haven't really correlated with student success, so not a lot of weight is put on them anymore.
Do you think that maybe it works like this:

High SAT score - goes into engineering, physics, math, CS - competition also had high SAT scores.

Middle SAT score - goes into business, econ, languages - competition had middle of pack SAT score.

Lower SAT score - goes into literature, Journalism, Social work, education - competition had lower SAT scores.

And guess what happened - each category had the same average college grades....
 
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Midnighter2

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Do you think that maybe it works like this:

High SAT score - goes into engineering, physics, math, CS - competition also had high SAT scores.

Middle SAT score - goes into business, econ, languages - competition had middle of pack SAT score.

Lower SAT score - goes into literature, Journalism, Social work, education - competition had lower SAT scores.

And guess what happened - each category had the same average college grades....

Will have to ask my teacher friend how she got into Dartmouth with such low SAT scores…
 

PSUEngineer89

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Midnighter2

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No need. Your anecdote, which might not even be true, cannot outweigh the statistics.

Furthermore, there's nothing impressive about Dartmouth. I'd take a WVU engineering grad over a Dartmouth education grad and so would every other competent person.

https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-average-sat-score-for-every-college-major-2014-10?op=1

Might not even be true? Sheesh. Look - the most successful folks I know are all business/finance/law folks. Most are from top tier colleges too. By a mile. You take your WVU engineering grad if you like though. Everyone serves a purpose.
 

walleye38

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Dropping test scores for athletes entering college will damage College Sports & K-12.

Both college & K-12 require some academic performance from students wanting to participate in extracurricular sport and activities.
No entry test scores for college entry is opening the door isn’t just damaging to athletes but to all students. Having more students taking remedial HS courses in College doesn’t help anyone.

It is called the dumming down of America. Another turn toward college professionalism. Why have standards? It is called Liberalism my friend.
 

Art

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No need. Your anecdote, which might not even be true, cannot outweigh the statistics.

Furthermore, there's nothing impressive about Dartmouth. I'd take a WVU engineering grad over a Dartmouth education grad and so would every other competent person.

https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-average-sat-score-for-every-college-major-2014-10?op=1

To do what? Teach something in which an engineering grad has no background?

BTW, Dartmouth doesn't offer a degree in education. It does have a minor, which allows grads with degrees in other disciplines to obtain teaching certificates.
 

Midnighter2

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To do what? Teach something in which an engineering grad has no background?

BTW, Dartmouth doesn't offer a degree in education. It does have a minor, which allows grads with degrees in other disciplines to obtain teaching certificates.

;)
 

Lion84

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I'm a high school counselor. Most colleges aren't requiring test scores anymore, so this is just the norm for all students entering college at this point. Kids can still take the test and have the option to submit them (and a few still require them), but test scores haven't really correlated with student success, so not a lot of weight is put on them anymore.
So are most Colleges going with 100% GPA? Curious since i have a Sophomore in High School now.
 
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Art

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So are most Colleges going with 100% GPA? Curious since i have a Sophomore in High School now.

Depends on the school. Essays and recommendations have become more important. Don't know what schools like PSU, which in the past never required them, do.
 

Lion84

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Depends on the school. Essays and recommendations have become more important. Don't know what schools like PSU, which in the past never required them, do.
Thanks Art - She won't be going to PSU - wants to exit the state of PA - he older sister is already at School in Savannah and this one wants to head to the West Coast - with the cost of PSU npw there is really no reason to try to keep them in state any longer - out of state schools are almost the same price in many cases.
 
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bvillebaron

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Seriously, what do people expect? You take school away from kids for a year, year and a half, and then add a whole host of other restrictions, and then pretend it has no effect on kids and their scholastic achievement, among other things? This country has its head up its ass right now, especially about what is important.
You must ave missed the part about this being permanent. How many participation trophies did you win? If you went to see someone with his head where you describe it look in the mirror.
 

bvillebaron

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I'm a high school counselor. Most colleges aren't requiring test scores anymore, so this is just the norm for all students entering college at this point. Kids can still take the test and have the option to submit them (and a few still require them), but test scores haven't really correlated with student success, so not a lot of weight is put on them anymore.
Of course not. Far better to base possible college success on those grading systems which no longer are permitted to give kids an “F”.
 
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