NCAA probably should Nix the NIL and go with a set paid scholarship. By that, I mean real money.

PSUEngineer89

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Suggestions:

1. Scholarships of $250,000 per player per year. No cutting players. You offered him, it was up to you coach.
2. No NIL. None.
3. Transfer portal only upon not making the two deep roster. If you make the 2 deep, and still want to transfer, pay back $250,000 scholarship.

This might restore some of the team identity that's obviously going to go by the wayside.
 
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Obliviax

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that horse has left the barn. the only way to do this is to get the players to organize in some kind of union. Then negotiate a collective bargaining agreement that agrees to what is and is not allowable. If no CBA, any rule against NIL would be taken to court where it will lose.
 

bourbon n blues

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that horse has left the barn. the only way to do this is to get the players to organize in some kind of union. Then negotiate a collective bargaining agreement that agrees to what is and is not allowable. If no CBA, any rule against NIL would be taken to court where it will lose.
College sports are over. At least I can watch PSU wrestle and pretend it's different.
 

Mufasa94

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Suggestions:

1. Scholarships of $250,000 per player per year. No cutting players. You offered him, it was up to you coach.
2. No NIL. None.
3. Transfer portal only upon not making the two deep roster. If you make the 2 deep, and still want to transfer, pay back $250,000 scholarship.

This might restore some of the team identity that's obviously going to go by the wayside.
Once payments are directly from the schools, Title IX type issues will arise.

Relatively few schools could likely afford the above type numbers just for football.

Not saying I know the realistic answer (assuming a reset to what a university and student is supposed to be is not an option).
 
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bourbon n blues

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This problem came about due to the illusion that people went to college for an education to get a better job , even athletes.
Money talked and now that illusion is gone.
 
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Obliviax

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This problem came about due to the illusion that people went to college for an education to get a better job , even athletes.
Money talked and now that illusion is gone
I don't fully agree. The issue was that schools were making tens of millions of dollars exploiting kids that had no other path than to go to college to get into the NFL. Not only didn't they pay them with anything other than room, board and tuition, they didn't allow for many basic needs beyond those. At the same time, using their images and hard work to make wealthy people wealthier.

I can only imagine what poor kid from the trailer park or inner-city thinks when some uber-rich cat doles our several tens of thousands of dollars for a loge and premium parking space when he is getting up at 5 am for daily workouts before a full load of classes while getting nothing but table scraps.

The NCAA made the mistake that a lot of companies do: Hold onto a failing model to maximize revenue while they can instead of taking a short term hit to adjust to the new normal. I see tech companies hold onto cash-cow tech all the time, while smaller companies jump up and erode them until they are extinct.

In hind site, the NCAA should have encouraged kids to unionize. In helping them, they could have directed them to bring about an orderly transition. They could have stressed revenue sharing for all of the players on the team and had some kind of orderly transfer process. Now, we have a free for all. QB's leaving HS early to get on-campus only to leave when they get a better offer from a different college. Kids portal out anytime they feel the desire, even mid-season. Now, I have no idea how they recover. I have no idea how the kids can unionize and negotiate a collective bargaining agreement. Smaller programs will suffer and hard-working kids that aren't 5-star starters will continue to be exploited.
 
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bourbon n blues

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I don't fully agree. The issue was that schools were making tens of millions of dollars exploiting kids that had no other path than to go to college to get into the NFL. Not only didn't they pay them with anything other than room, board and tuition, they didn't allow for many basic needs beyond those. At the same time, using their images and hard work to make wealthy people wealthier.

I can only imagine what poor kid from the trailer park or inner-city thinks when some uber-rich cat doles our several tens of thousands of dollars for a loge and premium parking space when he is getting up at 5 am for daily workouts before a full load of classes while getting nothing but table scraps.

The NCAA made the mistake that a lot of companies do: Hold onto a failing model to maximize revenue while they can instead of taking a short term hit to adjust to the new normal. I see tech companies hold onto cash-cow tech all the time, while smaller companies jump up and erode them until they are extinct.

In hind site, the NCAA should have encouraged kids to unionize. In helping them, they could have directed them to bring about an orderly transition. They could have stressed revenue sharing for all of the players on the team and had some kind of orderly transfer process. Now, we have a free for all. QB's leaving HS early to get on-campus only to leave when they get a better offer from a different college. Kids portal out anytime they feel the desire, even mid-season. Now, I have no idea how they recover. I have no idea how the kids can unionize and negotiate a collective bargaining agreement. Smaller programs will suffer and hard-working kids that aren't 5-star starters will continue to be exploited.
Exploiting kids? Maybe but it's supposed to be for an education, that's on all parties.
Of we would only admit qualified students you'd hear cries of racism .
My sister applied to Georgetown her senior year, she was wait listed. She graduated 1987 btw. She wasn't Georgetown material I guess so she went to Harvard .
At the same time Thompson was arguing that minimal grade and SAT standards were racist . My sister was the valedictorian with over a 1400 SAT in the mid 80s I think that might actually be considered higher these days due to some scoring changes .
So yes schools played a part, as did greedy students and parents. And a feckless NCAA.
To me the answer is changing college sports and forcing basketball and football to come up with minor leagues. But that won't happen since they already exist.
However as a guy who paid his loans and having kids who paid their loans I don't like the idea paying them for something I paid for myself. A person who went their for and education.
 
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Obliviax

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Exploiting kids? Maybe but it's supposed to be for an education, that's on all parties.
Of we would only admit qualified students you'd hear cries of racism .
My sister applied to Georgetown her senior year, she was wait listed. She graduated 1987 btw. She wasn't Georgetown material I guess so she went to Harvard .
At the same time Thompson was arguing that minimal grade and SAT standards were racist . My sister was the valedictorian with over a 1400 SAT in the mid 80s I think that might actually be considered higher these days due to some scoring changes .
So yes schools played a part, as did greedy students and parents. And a feckless NCAA.
To me the answer is changing college sports and forcing basketball and football to come up with minor leagues. But that won't happen since they already exist.
However as a guy who paid his loans and having kids who paid their loans I don't like the idea paying them for something I paid for myself. A person who went their for and education.
Well, you make 18 year olds get up at 5am to lift and eat a diet prescribed by a coach. You then go to class and tutors. Then you get your brians beat in at practice. Don't forget that even the slightest error, on and off the field, is filmed and disseminated via social media. Few make it to the NFL or even the senior bowl/nfl combine. PSU, a top 20 program by just about any standard, will get three or four in the NFL each year. Only a handful make it to something beyond the rookie contract.

Meanwhile, the college is making $70m a year so that they can push the college story and agenda. Hell, they are playing and making money so some gal can be offered a full 'ship to compete in scull or sit on the end of the bench on the woman's fencing team to round out Title IX rules to equalize 'ships being handed out between men and women (if there is such a distinction these days).

I give zero F's for large universities or the NCAA in this case.
 
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bourbon n blues

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Well, you make 18 year olds get up at 5am to lift and eat a diet prescribed by a coach. You then go to class and tutors. Then you get your brians beat in at practice. Few make it to the NFL or even the senior bowl/nfl combine. PSU, a top 20 program by just about any standard, will get three or four in the NFL each year. Only a handful make it to something beyond the rookie contract.

Meanwhile, the college is making $70m a year so that they can push the college story and agenda. Hell, they are playing and making money so some gal can be offered a full 'ship to compete in scull or sit on the end of the bench on the woman's fencing team to round out Title IX rules to equalize 'ships being handed out between men and women (if there is such a distinction these days).

I give zero F's for large universities or the NCAA in this case.
I get where you're coming from, now make that some kid or single mom or dad doing the similar, saying working a full time job and receiving need based financial aid and taking out loans. That person goes on to be a nurse, doctor, engineer, teacher, businessman . Why do the other guys get a free ride and money on top of it?
While those actually contributing to society ( or more likely to contribute) get the pleasure of paying back student loans.
 
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GreggK

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I have absolutely ZERO problem with players getting paid and have a hard time comprehending those who do.
That being said, i did love college sports as it was.

The entire system though, mainly the NFL, is really the problem with college sports. The draft and the salary cap.
It is part of what creates parity in the NBA, MLB and NFL, but it puts pressure on the college game, especially basketball and football and makes them the development league for the pros.

In Europe, pro teams bring in kids at a young age, sign them to contracts, and develop them to play. They could start as young as 8 years old.

I don't think I would like going that young, but I wouldn't be against the NFL having teams that developed players, but of course, the NFL would never want that. It costs too much, what they have now is free and it works. But the cost is shifted to the college teams, but of course, in their case, they can profit off of it more.

Unless the system changes, this is what we have. And it is fair. Spare me the "they are getting a free education and top notch medical care BS". Its BS, because they are worth more than that, at least some of them are, and in a capitalist society, they have every right to get paid their worth. And you certainly have a right NOT to watch.
 

Obliviax

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I have absolutely ZERO problem with players getting paid and have a hard time comprehending those who do.
That being said, i did love college sports as it was.

The entire system though, mainly the NFL, is really the problem with college sports. The draft and the salary cap.
It is part of what creates parity in the NBA, MLB and NFL, but it puts pressure on the college game, especially basketball and football and makes them the development league for the pros.

In Europe, pro teams bring in kids at a young age, sign them to contracts, and develop them to play. They could start as young as 8 years old.

I don't think I would like going that young, but I wouldn't be against the NFL having teams that developed players, but of course, the NFL would never want that. It costs too much, what they have now is free and it works. But the cost is shifted to the college teams, but of course, in their case, they can profit off of it more.

Unless the system changes, this is what we have. And it is fair. Spare me the "they are getting a free education and top notch medical care BS". Its BS, because they are worth more than that, at least some of them are, and in a capitalist society, they have every right to get paid their worth. And you certainly have a right NOT to watch.
I follow until your last paragraph. When you look at income and medical care, a kid that practices hard for four years and never starts invested as much as a five star. A starting Left Guard may be more valuable than the QB to the team but not in NIL. A complete free marking will yield three things: stars will suck up the revenue leaving little income and poor medical care for the rest. Big money teams will win everyone else will lose, leading to a complete lack of competitiveness. Certain position player will be overpaid while others will be underpaid. And this doesn't even mention bringing in a 16 year old star to hope you can get that one or two years out of him before he goes pro..mid season portal xfers...offering a kid from tOSU NIL money to portal to PSU the week before the PSU/tOSU game...killing funding for non-revenue producing sports...title IX implications.....

That is why we will need a CBA at some point. We need to get the players to agree to put parameters around this just like NBA, MLB and NFL players have.

I'd love to see team NIL payments. Age limits for recurring HS kids. ability to offer guaranteed NIL/'ship five year offers for big time kids while offering lower number of year 'ships/NIL to lower end recruited. Guaranteed health care for several years after the playing season. ability to attend post graduate school if NFL doesn't work out and more.
 

bourbon n blues

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I follow until your last paragraph. When you look at income and medical care, a kid that practices hard for four years and never starts invested as much as a five star. A starting Left Guard may be more valuable than the QB to the team but not in NIL. A complete free marking will yield three things: stars will suck up the revenue leaving little income and poor medical care for the rest. Big money teams will win everyone else will lose, leading to a complete lack of competitiveness. Certain position player will be overpaid while others will be underpaid. And this doesn't even mention bringing in a 16 year old star to hope you can get that one or two years out of him before he goes pro..mid season portal xfers...offering a kid from tOSU NIL money to portal to PSU the week before the PSU/tOSU game...killing funding for non-revenue producing sports...title IX implications.....

That is why we will need a CBA at some point. We need to get the players to agree to put parameters around this just like NBA, MLB and NFL players have.

I'd love to see team NIL payments. Age limits for recurring HS kids. ability to offer guaranteed NIL/'ship five year offers for big time kids while offering lower number of year 'ships/NIL to lower end recruited. Guaranteed health care for several years after the playing season. ability to attend post graduate school if NFL doesn't work out and more.
Good ideas, but I'm sure it'll screw it up.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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Once payments are directly from the schools, Title IX type issues will arise.

Relatively few schools could likely afford the above type numbers just for football.

Not saying I know the realistic answer (assuming a reset to what a university and student is supposed to be is not an option).
We are trying to solve a problem.

Not defend what some moronic judge viewed as "fair".

Title IX should not be adhered to - it is a joke.

Football players are NOT compensated in accordance to their value. That's indisputable. Put 107,000 fans in a house and you've got a significant business.

Give a scholarship to a woman's soccer player - you've got a cost.

Period. End of story. No other opinions allowed, because you're just electing to be wrong.
 

Tweedbear

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Suggestions:

1. Scholarships of $250,000 per player per year. No cutting players. You offered him, it was up to you coach.
2. No NIL. None.
3. Transfer portal only upon not making the two deep roster. If you make the 2 deep, and still want to transfer, pay back $250,000 scholarship.

This might restore some of the team identity that's obviously going to go by the wayside.
$20,000,000 of new expenses where is that money being raised.
Basketball gets money
Wrestling gets money
Not an easy mountain to climb.
 
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bourbon n blues

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We are trying to solve a problem.

Not defend what some moronic judge viewed as "fair".

Title IX should not be adhered to - it is a joke.

Football players are NOT compensated in accordance to their value. That's indisputable. Put 107,000 fans in a house and you've got a significant business.

Give a scholarship to a woman's soccer player - you've got a cost.

Period. End of story. No other opinions allowed, because you're just electing to be wrong.
It's still law, and if you think they'll give that up, well you know they won't.
 

dailybuck777

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Suggestions:

1. Scholarships of $250,000 per player per year. No cutting players. You offered him, it was up to you coach.
2. No NIL. None.
3. Transfer portal only upon not making the two deep roster. If you make the 2 deep, and still want to transfer, pay back $250,000 scholarship.

This might restore some of the team identity that's obviously going to go by the wayside.
Why pay the mediocre or poor players the same as stars. If they are being paid big bucks, they should be subject to being cut.
 
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Obliviax

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Why pay the mediocre or poor players the same as stars. If they are being paid big bucks, they should be subject to being cut.
Agree and disagree. If you are talking about two QBs, one great and one poor, I get it. If you are saying pay the QB but not the Left Guard I can't agree. I wouldn't be surprised to see a LG step aside on a snap or two in a meaningless game just to let the QB know who butters his bread.
 

bourbon n blues

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Agree and disagree. If you are talking about two QBs, one great and one poor, I get it. If you are saying pay the QB but not the Left Guard I can't agree. I wouldn't be surprised to see a LG step aside on a snap or two in a meaningless game just to let the QB know who butters his bread.
While the world figures it out I'd probably stop watching, it's why I don't watch women's sports. There's a better example of what they're doing like say the NBA. The only kind I watch are traditional track and weight sports. That is unless there's some dude running against the ladies.
 

Obliviax

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While the world figures it out I'd probably stop watching, it's why I don't watch women's sports. There's a better example of what they're doing like say the NBA. The only kind I watch are traditional track and weight sports. That is unless there's some dude running against the ladies.
I'd point you to MAC or Conf USA - something below the SEC and B1G. Kids still play for love of game there. Or NAIA, Mount Union Purple Raiders are fun.

or, high school.
 

bourbon n blues

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I'd point you to MAC or Conf USA - something below the SEC and B1G. Kids still play for love of game there. Or NAIA, Mount Union Purple Raiders are fun.

or, high school.
For now, I do get that, but I wasn't a fan of those schools, I'm a PSU grad I don't watch many other teams. I'm not one of those guys that needs sports on tv, so I watch my teams.
 
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dailybuck777

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Don’t we want to restore the team atmosphere?

That’s what I’m aiming for.
I get it, but the assumption that individual players are in a practical sense entitled to what they can earn for image and likeness is fundamentally inconsistent with a team sport. Skill players are always going to get more money than linemen, even if the lineman is a better player. A half-solution is for the University to be entitled to a portion of the profits and distribute those profits to deserving players who don't get a ton of publicity.
 

PSUEngineer89

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I get it, but the assumption that individual players are in a practical sense entitled to what they can earn for image and likeness is fundamentally inconsistent with a team sport. Skill players are always going to get more money than linemen, even if the lineman is a better player. A half-solution is for the University to be entitled to a portion of the profits and distribute those profits to deserving players who don't get a ton of publicity.
Thus my argument for a real, paid scholarship.

Earn a scholarship, get $250k. All players, regardless of status on depth chart.

Perfect, no?

Better? By a mile.
 

LandoComando

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Nov 29, 2021
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Suggestions:

1. Scholarships of $250,000 per player per year. No cutting players. You offered him, it was up to you coach.
2. No NIL. None.
3. Transfer portal only upon not making the two deep roster. If you make the 2 deep, and still want to transfer, pay back $250,000 scholarship.

This might restore some of the team identity that's obviously going to go by the wayside.
Your suggestion is the school payout more than 21M a year for all players and then despite paying the players if they don't produce they have to keep them.

Making sure I'm reading this insanity correctly...
 

Agoodnap

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Suggestions:

1. Scholarships of $250,000 per player per year. No cutting players. You offered him, it was up to you coach.
2. No NIL. None.
3. Transfer portal only upon not making the two deep roster. If you make the 2 deep, and still want to transfer, pay back $250,000 scholarship.

This might restore some of the team identity that's obviously going to go by the wayside.
You should probably just stick with statistics.
 

psu00

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The NIL $ will be minimal for most athletes. Only a relative few will make serious money from that.

You want this to end then the schools just have to say that as long as there’s NIL then the scholarships with free tuition/ room and board, free food, and free athletic apparel will be ended. (After all, we are told that the athletes get ‘nothing’ in the old system).

See how quickly the athletes decide to go back to the old system once it’s gone when they realize the real NIL money is only for a few.
 
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LandoComando

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The NIL will be minimal for most athletes. Only a relative few will make serious money from that. You want this to end then the schools just have to say that as long as there’s NIL then the free scholarships tuition/ room and board, free food, and athletic apparel will be ended. (After all, we are told that it’s ‘nothing’).

See how quickly the athletes decide to go back to the old system once it’s gone when they realize the real NIL money is only for a few.
Top programs wouldn't like this change.
Honestly, the NCAA just needs to cease to exist and the top 24-48 schools should break away and do whatever they think is best.
 

Rip_E_2_Joe_PA

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that horse has left the barn. the only way to do this is to get the players to organize in some kind of union. Then negotiate a collective bargaining agreement that agrees to what is and is not allowable. If no CBA, any rule against NIL would be taken to court where it will lose.

Which they should have done instead of their fate being handled by the SEC-NCAA.
 

heckmans

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Suggestions:

1. Scholarships of $250,000 per player per year. No cutting players. You offered him, it was up to you coach.
2. No NIL. None.
3. Transfer portal only upon not making the two deep roster. If you make the 2 deep, and still want to transfer, pay back $250,000 scholarship.

This might restore some of the team identity that's obviously going to go by the wayside.
The challenge here is that legally, there is no way to separate revenue sports from non-revenue sports and Title IX would have a field day if that occurred. No way to give $250K to a football player and not to a softball player, or to a men's basketball player and not a women's basketball player.
NIL is essentially allowing the private market to compensate players for endorsements so the NCAA/universities can't get in trouble for unequal distribution of money.

For better or worse, we hit, or will hit shortly, "Peak CFB." There's no going back. It will be interesting to see how things change over the next 10 years as viewership/ticket revenues likely diminish, TV contracts become less lucrative, and FBS programs fold or move down as the money contracts.

As I've said before, I think the first big move will be to a P1 of 15-20 teams, a pretty big 2nd tier of reorganized conferences, and as much as 25% of FBS teams folding or moving to FCS.
In the long run, I think college revenue sports, which is unique to the US, dissolve and are replaced by developmental systems like we see around the world for hockey, soccer, etc.
The NBA G league will expand into multiple tiers for basketball if the NBA wants to retain it's monopoly, or perhaps others create junior leagues. Football is perhaps more difficult given the cost of running a football team as well as the time it takes for most athletes to reach "NFL maturity."
 

L.A.Lion

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Exploiting kids? Maybe but it's supposed to be for an education, that's on all parties.

So yes schools played a part, as did greedy students and parents. And a feckless NCAA.
The NCAA (and the schools, whose presidents constitute the NCAA) did more than play a part; they brought all of this on themselves by selling likenesses of student-athletes to video game companies.
 

PSUEngineer89

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The challenge here is that legally, there is no way to separate revenue sports from non-revenue sports and Title IX would have a field day if that occurred. No way to give $250K to a football player and not to a softball player, or to a men's basketball player and not a women's basketball player.
NIL is essentially allowing the private market to compensate players for endorsements so the NCAA/universities can't get in trouble for unequal distribution of money.

For better or worse, we hit, or will hit shortly, "Peak CFB." There's no going back. It will be interesting to see how things change over the next 10 years as viewership/ticket revenues likely diminish, TV contracts become less lucrative, and FBS programs fold or move down as the money contracts.

As I've said before, I think the first big move will be to a P1 of 15-20 teams, a pretty big 2nd tier of reorganized conferences, and as much as 25% of FBS teams folding or moving to FCS.
In the long run, I think college revenue sports, which is unique to the US, dissolve and are replaced by developmental systems like we see around the world for hockey, soccer, etc.
The NBA G league will expand into multiple tiers for basketball if the NBA wants to retain it's monopoly, or perhaps others create junior leagues. Football is perhaps more difficult given the cost of running a football team as well as the time it takes for most athletes to reach "NFL maturity."

Why can’t we legally separate revenue sports from non-revenue sports?

Seems easy to do.
 

12375CAT

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Feb 15, 2012
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Suggestions:

1. Scholarships of $250,000 per player per year. No cutting players. You offered him, it was up to you coach.
2. No NIL. None.
3. Transfer portal only upon not making the two deep roster. If you make the 2 deep, and still want to transfer, pay back $250,000 scholarship.

This might restore some of the team identity that's obviously going to go by the wayside.
Who's gonna pay for this without (significantly) raising ticket prices?
But 3. sounds like a plan.
 

Woodpecker

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May 29, 2001
18,289
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Suggestions:

1. Scholarships of $250,000 per player per year. No cutting players. You offered him, it was up to you coach.
2. No NIL. None.
3. Transfer portal only upon not making the two deep roster. If you make the 2 deep, and still want to transfer, pay back $250,000 scholarship.

This might restore some of the team identity that's obviously going to go by the wayside.
Just for my understanding, are you saying to tie the license to use a player's name/image/likeness to that scholarship pay out? Or are you advocating free use of players' NIL?
 

PSUEngineer89

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Just for my understanding, are you saying to tie the license to use a player's name/image/likeness to that scholarship pay out? Or are you advocating free use of players' NIL?
No NIL.

Donors fund a general football scholarship account instead.

In exchange, donors get time from players based on the amount they gave.
 

kgilbert78

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I have a buddy's kid who is finishing up his apprenticeship in welding. You know, his company makes good money--but he doesn't get the pay of a master or even a journeyman. Because he's not one. And that's what college athletics was for a lot of kids if not all--an apprenticeship, with a degree (hopefully) if the big job didn't pan out. And that's a valid format. Now, I'm realistic. That's gone now. But I'm not sure anyone is really going to like the new deal with NIL in the long term, except for a few lucky (or smart) ones. Because a lot of schools will not be able to sustain the NIL's and the arms race and not as many kids will get their chance. Think of a Mike Piazza, who'd never get an MLB chance in the new minor league setup (done for similar $$$ reasons). He'd be tending bar in Norristown somewhere.
 

Woodpecker

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No NIL.

Donors fund a general football scholarship account instead.

In exchange, donors get time from players based on the amount they gave.
Sorry, I'm kinda dense. When you say "No NIL", do you mean that nobody will be permitted to use an athlete's name, image, or likeness or that they will simply not be compensated for it? What do you mean that donors will "get time" from players? Are you saying that players will have obligations beyond their sports involvement?
 
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step.eng69

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2012
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North East PA, Backmountain area, age 72
Sorry, I'm kinda dense. When you say "No NIL", do you mean that nobody will be permitted to use an athlete's name, image, or likeness or that they will simply not be compensated for it? What do you mean that donors will "get time" from players? Are you saying that players will have obligations beyond their sports involvement?
Ah, you Devil
🤓
 

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