Natural Immunity 27 Times Stronger than Vaccines

bourbon n blues

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Nov 20, 2019
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The unvaxxed should have to pay at least an extra $200 per month on their health insurance premiums. Giving the unvaxxed a free ride is just another example of socialism in the US. They need to pay for their stupidity.
That's moronic but you voted for Biden so it's to be expected from you. Why aren't those who drink, have excessive body fat percentage, or other bad health habits like type 2 diabetes not the issue?
Idiot, you want to tax people for a virus that's most risky to people with horrible health habits vs those who lived well. Smfh.
I do apologize if you're being sarcastic.
 

tIUguy2

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May 25, 2016
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The unvaxxed should have to pay at least an extra $200 per month on their health insurance premiums. Giving the unvaxxed a free ride is just another example of socialism in the US. They need to pay for their stupidity.
Yep. So should smokers and fatties.
 
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Jason1743

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Jan 23, 2006
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My body my choice ring a bell? This is even worse banning a medical procedure is not the same as forcing one. BTW until you can guarantee their will be no adverse effects you can not guarantee safety. So what does our government do? They change the rules by not forcing rlemployers to report work related illness...what does that tell you?
It is really sad how politicized the vaccine has become. It’s really a no brainer to get it. It’s not perfect, but it’s very good. Lots of studies. Cherry pick the results. Listen to minority opinions. Read Facebook. Don’t get vaccinated.
 
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ao5884

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Oct 1, 2019
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It is really sad how politicized the vaccine has become. It’s really a no brainer to get it. It’s not perfect, but it’s very good. Lots of studies. Cherry pick the results. Listen to minority opinions. Read Facebook. Don’t get vaccinated.
It depends on the person. For example throughout the entire pandemic 630 people under the age of 18 have died from covid...nearly all had other serious health problems. Where is the benefit for young healthy people? If the vaccine is safe why change rules put in place that are designed to keep the workplace safe?
 

LMTLION

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Mar 20, 2008
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That's moronic but you voted for Biden so it's to be expected from you. Why aren't those who drink, have excessive body fat percentage, or other bad health habits like type 2 diabetes not the issue?
Idiot, you want to tax people for a virus that's most risky to people with horrible health habits vs those who lived well. Smfh.
I do apologize if you're being sarcastic.
The unvaccinated are creating enormous financial and capacity strains on the healthcare system. That fact is not in dispute. I have noticed that those who claim to be “conservative “ have no problem completely abandoning personal responsibility for their own health, whether that means ballooning into a fat ****, or declining the covid vaccine. Both choices have major impacts on the whole of society. This is just another symptom of the continued decline of America. I am convinced that if we were invaded by China or Russia most of you would just roll over.
 

interrobang

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Aug 21, 2016
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The unvaccinated are creating enormous financial and capacity strains on the healthcare system. That fact is not in dispute.

Actually that's a huge debate. Capacity strains are largely in blue states where vaccine mandates have thinned how many beds can be staffed.

Then the numbers are skewed because hospitalization data is only those WITH covid, not FOR covid, and if you're admitted to the hospital for something unrelated to covid, you're much more likely to be tested as a precaution if you're unvaccinated. Yet if you test positive, even asymptomatic, you're considered a covid hospitalization
 

dailybuck777

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Jan 2, 2018
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The unvaccinated are creating enormous financial and capacity strains on the healthcare system. That fact is not in dispute.
Ridiculous. Show the statistics for healthy people under 20 or 40 or 50. Virtually no healthy people get seriously sick under 40 and not many under 50.

One huge risk of mRNA vaccines is ADE, antibody-dependent infection enhancement -- meaning that sometimes vaccines substantially enhance your risk of getting sick from a virus. "Although there is no direct evidence that there is ADE in COVID-19, this potential risk is a huge challenge for prevention and vaccine development. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8438590/
 

SLUPSU

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Aug 5, 2018
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Ridiculous. Show the statistics for healthy people under 20 or 40 or 50. Virtually no healthy people get seriously sick under 40 and not many under 50.

One huge risk of mRNA vaccines is ADE, antibody-dependent infection enhancement -- meaning that sometimes vaccines substantially enhance your risk of getting sick from a virus. "Although there is no direct evidence that there is ADE in COVID-19, this potential risk is a huge challenge for prevention and vaccine development. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8438590/

Such nonsense.... ADE is not a huge risk in any way shape or form and would be a rare occurrence with ANY vaccine. It is not happening with current covid vaccines.

How is it a huge risk when there is no direct evidence there is ADE with covid vaccines after 100's of millions of jabs?

 

LMTLION

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Mar 20, 2008
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Such nonsense.... ADE is not a huge risk in any way shape or form and would be a rare occurrence with ANY vaccine. It is not happening with current covid vaccines.

How is it a huge risk when there is no direct evidence there is ADE with covid vaccines after 100's of millions of jabs?

It is difficult to inject science and logic into the test board “conservative” circle jerk of pseudoscience and false interpretations.
 

palmettolion

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May 22, 2014
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Such nonsense.... ADE is not a huge risk in any way shape or form and would be a rare occurrence with ANY vaccine. It is not happening with current covid vaccines.

How is it a huge risk when there is no direct evidence there is ADE with covid vaccines after 100's of millions of jabs?



Remember when the vaccine would prevent you from getting Covid? Remember when the vaccine would prevent you from spreading Covid? Remember when you only needed one J&J shot for full vaccination? Remember when you weren't going to need a booster? Remember when you only needed one booster?

What happens if we're wrong about ADE/VED in regards to Covid also? Or is it simply not possible to be wrong about this also?

No big deal, I'm sure our benevolent leaders and pharmaceutical overlords certainly have only your best health interests in mind and certainly not their profits.

I hope you're right and I have to eat crow but science and logic seem to keep slightly changing from our original proclamations of completely blind optimism.
 

LMTLION

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Mar 20, 2008
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Could you be more specific when you refer to the unvaccinated? Do you mean those who have had 0 shots, 1 shot, two shots, longer than 6 months…etc? Most of the people I know who have had COVID were jabbed at least twice. Is natural immunity also a sign of America’s decline? Or, is ignoring it? You do realize that those of us who have always taken personal responsibility for our health up to this point don’t need the jab, and shouldn’t be shamed or pressured by the unhealthy masses at risk. Turn off your tv. Go for a walk. You’ll thank me sometime.
We are in a war against this virus, and it is a virus that still has murky origins. It may have come from nature, or someday we may look back on it as an intentional release and part of a larger war that’s happening. In the wussification of America, the unvaxxed just roll over. Being unvaccinated is not accepting personal responsibility for your Health and not participating in the national effort to minimize it. And that’s your choice to stay unvaccinated (I do not believe in mandates), but you should have to financially pay for that choice during a national emergency.
 

PSUEngineer89

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Aug 14, 2021
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It is difficult to inject science and logic into the test board “conservative” circle jerk of pseudoscience and false interpretations.
There is some nonsense, and I think that the ADE thing probably fits that description.

But there's no question that the conservatives have brought more science and analysis to the Covid discussion than liberals.

I do not know how you can believe otherwise.
 

LMTLION

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Mar 20, 2008
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There is some nonsense, and I think that the ADE thing probably fits that description.

But there's no question that the conservatives have brought more science and analysis to the Covid discussion than liberals.

I do not know how you can believe otherwise.
There is a lot of nonsense on both sides. There are many unvaccinated folks that feel there is no danger at all from the virus, and the unvaxxed are largely who are currently hospitalized with covid. And there are people on the liberal side who falsely believe that the hospitalization rate and associated risk are ridiculously high. I have very liberal family members who unfortunately have isolated themselves and their kids from the beginning, which is just outrageous as well. Both ends of the spectrum are absolutely crazy.
 

PSUEngineer89

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Aug 14, 2021
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There is a lot of nonsense on both sides. There are many unvaccinated folks that feel there is no danger at all from the virus, and the unvaxxed are largely who are currently hospitalized with covid. And there are people on the liberal side who falsely believe that the hospitalization rate and associated risk are ridiculously high. I have very liberal family members who unfortunately have isolated themselves and their kids from the beginning, which is just outrageous as well. Both ends of the spectrum are absolutely crazy.
I truly don't know one person who believes that there is no danger from the virus.

I know a ton of people who say that if you're under 40 and healthy, your odds of being harmed by the virus are about the same as a meteor strike.

I do think it is fair to say that the "anti-vaxx" crowd, who tries to find any issue possible with the vaccine (and there are issues, but they must be compared with risk of disease and efficacy of the vaccine) and emphasize it are crazy.
 

jjw165

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Jan 18, 2005
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It is difficult to inject science and logic into the test board “conservative” circle jerk of pseudoscience and false interpretations.
The article mentioned that ADE is a potential risk in vaccine development. He copied and pasted from the abstract. I don’t believe he misrepresented the article. It is good news that there isn’t evidence that COVID 19 vaccines cause ADE. It’s is all good to know of some potential concerns.
You appear to use a broad brush when painting on the canvas that all people who choose not to get vaccinated are irresponsible. On that point, I completely disagree. We know the population that is at greatest risk and the population at lowest risk. I believe it’s reasonable to conclude that those populations could make different choices about being vaccinated and both would be based on sound rationale. Covid is not the only disease, illness or ailment out there. Our politicians shut down schools for the most resilient population (kids). Today, we have a mental health crisis on our hands due to that decision. The more info we have to scour over the better, so we can make better decisions going forward.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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Aug 14, 2021
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The article mentioned that ADE is a potential risk in vaccine development. He copied and pasted from the abstract. I don’t believe he misrepresented the article. It is good news that there isn’t evidence that COVID 19 vaccines cause ADE. It’s is all good to know of some potential concerns.
You appear to use a broad brush when painting on the canvas that all people who choose not to get vaccinated are irresponsible. On that point, I completely disagree. We know the population that is at greatest risk and the population at lowest risk. I believe it’s reasonable to conclude that those populations could make different choices about being vaccinated and both would be based on sound rationale. Covid is not the only disease, illness or ailment out there. Our politicians shut down schools for the most resilient population (kids). Today, we have a mental health crisis on our hands due to that decision. The more info we have to scour over the better, so we can better decisions going forward.

It is reasonable to argue that you should NOT be forced to wear a seat belt. I agree with this. Even though every statistic out there shows seatbelts save lives. Only a moron thinks that freedom means "well, you're free to make choices in your life, but only if governmental body x agrees with them". Only a demented authoritarian uses arguments like, "yes, but your choice is raising my insurance rates".

It is reasonable to argue that you should be free to choose to not get vaccinated.

It is reasonable to argue that not only should you be free to choose to not get vaccinated, but that if you're young and healthy, your choice is rational.

But it is not reasonable to EMPHASIZE unknown and unquantified risks of a vaccine while at the same time de-emphasizing known small risks of Covid infection.

The problem with this type of "it might cause" are the cancer scares. California issues warnings on every substance known to man that "the state of California has determined that such and such cause cancer". Those warnings are ridiculous because they imply you should do without product X, all while ignoring the fact that product X is very useful and necessary.
 

jjw165

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Jan 18, 2005
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It is reasonable to argue that you should NOT be forced to wear a seat belt. I agree with this. Even though every statistic out there shows seatbelts save lives. Only a moron thinks that freedom means "well, you're free to make choices in your life, but only if governmental body x agrees with them". Only a demented authoritarian uses arguments like, "yes, but your choice is raising my insurance rates".

It is reasonable to argue that you should be free to choose to not get vaccinated.

It is reasonable to argue that not only should you be free to choose to not get vaccinated, but that if you're young and healthy, your choice is rational.

But it is not reasonable to EMPHASIZE unknown and unquantified risks of a vaccine while at the same time de-emphasizing known small risks of Covid infection.

The problem with this type of "it might cause" are the cancer scares. California issues warnings on every substance known to man that "the state of California has determined that such and such cause cancer". Those warnings are ridiculous because they imply you should do without product X, all while ignoring the fact that product X is very useful and necessary.
I agree with just about everything you wrote. I’m not sure what you mean by this part though:
“But it is not reasonable to EMPHASIZE unknown and unquantified risks of a vaccine while at the same time de-emphasizing known small risks of Covid infection.”

Are you referring to something I wrote, the OP wrote, etc.? Thanks
 

dailybuck777

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Jan 2, 2018
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Such nonsense.... ADE is not a huge risk in any way shape or form and would be a rare occurrence with ANY vaccine. It is not happening with current covid vaccines.

How is it a huge risk when there is no direct evidence there is ADE with covid vaccines after 100's of millions of jabs?

The skimpy article you referenced was written before the article that I cited, which is very detailed. Here is a more detailed quote:

"Observations in patients with SARS-CoV-2 were similar to those with SARS during the 2003 epidemic (Cheung et al., 2005; Tetro, 2020). It is speculated whether individuals with severe disease may have been exposed to one or more coronavirons and are experiencing an ADE due to antigen epitope heterogeneity (Tetro, 2020). ADE has been found in SARS-CoV, and is believed to be one of the reasons for such a high mortality rate (Ho et al., 2005). High concentration of anti SARS-CoV antiserum neutralized the infection of SARS-CoV, while highly diluted antiserum significantly increased the infection of SARS-CoV and induced a higher level of apoptosis (Wang et al., 2014). Rhesus monkeys immunized with S-glycoprotein of full-length SARS-CoV can cause serious acute lung injury (ALI) when they attack the virus (Chen et al., 2005; Liu et al., 2019). All these suggest that the development of SARS-COV vaccine requires special attention to ADE. "

Would also note that on the right side of the page I cited there are 5 articles dealing with ADE. It is a serious issue that may or may not arise with respect to this experimental vaccine, which will be used over and over again in different formulations increasing the risk. What happened with different style vaccines in the past is not that relevant to this new type of vaccine.
 
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LioninHouston

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Dec 12, 2005
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The unvaxxed should have to pay at least an extra $200 per month on their health insurance premiums. Giving the unvaxxed a free ride is just another example of socialism in the US. They need to pay for their stupidity.
So should the obese, smokers, heavy drinkers, drug abusers, etc.
 
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LioninHouston

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It is really sad how politicized the vaccine has become. It’s really a no brainer to get it. It’s not perfect, but it’s very good. Lots of studies. Cherry pick the results. Listen to minority opinions. Read Facebook. Don’t get vaccinated.
I wish you leftists had as much anger toward criminals as you do the unvaccinated.
 

dailybuck777

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Jan 2, 2018
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But it is not reasonable to EMPHASIZE unknown and unquantified risks of a vaccine while at the same time de-emphasizing known small risks of Covid infection.
Dr. Robert Malone was the main inventor of the mRNA technique. He gives a clinic on them here.
Among other things 14:50 he states you can't vaccinate your way out of an ongoing epidemic. In so doing, he predicted the omicron variant because he stated that the more you use leaky vaccines the more infectious the mutants become. At 17:10 he states that more vaccines are not always good and that there is a concept called "high zone tolerance" which can lead to multiple vaccines shutting down the immune system.

The basic point is that an extremely well-qualified individual, maybe 4 levels more knowledgeable than Fauci or Wolensky (sp) is warning that there are numerous risks that haven't been practically or logically addressed. That being the case, the argument for vaccinating healthy people under 40 is extremely weak.
 
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WeR0206

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Apr 9, 2014
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2020evidence.org
Ridiculous. Show the statistics for healthy people under 20 or 40 or 50. Virtually no healthy people get seriously sick under 40 and not many under 50.

One huge risk of mRNA vaccines is ADE, antibody-dependent infection enhancement -- meaning that sometimes vaccines substantially enhance your risk of getting sick from a virus. "Although there is no direct evidence that there is ADE in COVID-19, this potential risk is a huge challenge for prevention and vaccine development. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8438590/
Great points. I’d also add Virtually no people of any age that have 50ng/ml of vitamin D in their bloodwork get serious illness or die. This should be the focus of our govt agencies if they weren’t captured by big pharma.
Such nonsense.... ADE is not a huge risk in any way shape or form and would be a rare occurrence with ANY vaccine. It is not happening with current covid vaccines.

How is it a huge risk when there is no direct evidence there is ADE with covid vaccines after 100's of millions of jabs?

No direct evidence? What about all the breakthrough infections/hospitalizations/deaths? How do you know they weren’t from ADE without a full autopsy (that looks at type 1 and type 2 macrophages in the lungs) done on the dead?
There is some nonsense, and I think that the ADE thing probably fits that description.

But there's no question that the conservatives have brought more science and analysis to the Covid discussion than liberals.

I do not know how you can believe otherwise.
The ADE thing isn’t nonsense it’s documented to happen for certain respiratory virus vaccines in both humans and animals including coronavirus vaccines (in animals). Therefore it’s completely rational and prudent to suspect these covid19 shots come with the same risk.

(DR. PETER HOTEZ ON WHY EARLIER DEVELOPMENT OF CORONAVIRUS VACCINES WAS STOPPED, pathogenic priming)


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22536382 (Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS virus)

https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/123158 (Anti–spike IgG causes severe acute lung injury by skewing macrophage responses during acute SARS-CoV infection, pathogenic priming)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33113270 (Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID-19 vaccines worsening clinical disease)
 

Jason1743

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Jan 23, 2006
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It depends on the person. For example throughout the entire pandemic 630 people under the age of 18 have died from covid...nearly all had other serious health problems. Where is the benefit for young healthy people? If the vaccine is safe why change rules put in place that are designed to keep the workplace safe?
First, 630 deaths might be "low" for the pandemic but it is still a real number and beyond horrible for those affected. We inoculate children for German measles not so much to protect the kids, but to protect mothers of unborn children to prevent birth defects. Children can pass the COVID along to susceptible parents, teachers and other family members. We also want to lessen the virus pool to lessen further virus mutations.
 

Sullivan

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Nov 24, 2001
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First, 630 deaths might be "low" for the pandemic but it is still a real number and beyond horrible for those affected. We inoculate children for German measles not so much to protect the kids, but to protect mothers of unborn children to prevent birth defects. Children can pass the COVID along to susceptible parents, teachers and other family members. We also want to lessen the virus pool to lessen further virus mutations.

People die in car accidents too. Have you stopped riding in automobiles yet???
 

PSUEngineer89

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Aug 14, 2021
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First, 630 deaths might be "low" for the pandemic but it is still a real number and beyond horrible for those affected. We inoculate children for German measles not so much to protect the kids, but to protect mothers of unborn children to prevent birth defects. Children can pass the COVID along to susceptible parents, teachers and other family members. We also want to lessen the virus pool to lessen further virus mutations.
From a public policy standpoint, 630 is exactly equal to zero.
 

Sullivan

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Nov 24, 2001
16,386
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First, 630 deaths might be "low" for the pandemic but it is still a real number and beyond horrible for those affected. We inoculate children for German measles not so much to protect the kids, but to protect mothers of unborn children to prevent birth defects. Children can pass the COVID along to susceptible parents, teachers and other family members. We also want to lessen the virus pool to lessen further virus mutations.

And just to be clear, 630 people under the age of 18 didn't die from Covid. But rather, 630 people under the age of 18 with Covid died.
 

Jason1743

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Jan 23, 2006
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People die in car accidents too. Have you stopped riding in automobiles yet???
No, but I wear a seat belt, don't text and drive, don't drink and drive, have my car inspected yearly and avoid driving in bad weather if possible.
 

Jason1743

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Jan 23, 2006
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Yet you still drive, despite thousands of people who die each year, doing the same thing that you do.
I still go to restaurants, concerts, fly in air planes and visit relatives even though almost 800,00 people have died from COVID in the US. It's not about totally eliminating risk, but reducing risk as much as I can and still live my life.
 

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