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Discussion in 'The Wrestling Room' started by Gray52, Nov 9, 2017.
So now we know where Brands was getting his info about recruiting top kids...
I still have the same question. Since Larry and Kemm dog's parents have now taught Iowa how to recruit properly and the Hawks did not do very well with their high end targets this season, does that mean the Hawk staff needs to practice more or the staff may just continue to get out-recruited on a regular basis until a top10 finish becomes the acceptable?
What is it "you know who 1, 2 and 3" are telling potential recruits? Have you noticed it is our kids who are winning championships and it is our team who contends for championships?
His words were quoted in another thread and I didn't think much of them...in print. The animated Brands in this video puts it in a different context. I'm a Brands' fan, but this makes him look completely out of touch, even after a decade plus of leading arguably the most successful D1 program of the modern era. Frankly, I'm surprised.
I cant get the Flo link to open? Can someone post what exactly Brands said?
There is something about Brands I like also. However, he is much easier to like when he is chasing than when he is winning.
There is definitely a place for Tom and Terry in today's wrestling. Their passion for the sport is second to none. That said, I see nothing that makes me believe a TnT Iowa will become the chief threat to PSU's dominance anytime soon. Coach Smith impressed the hell out of me last year when he acknowledged that right now we are nowhere near them (PSU), but that in no way means I concede. We will just have to work harder at it until we get there. Ryan obviously irritates some of us, but he definitely has it working in Columbus.
Found it: https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/wittlake-flips-to-pokes.191217/page-2
Sorry, Roar. I didn’t realize this had been quoted already. I thought that Mr Lee having given Iowa the scoop was new info. What’s shocking to me is that he acknowledges that at least three other schools have beat TNT to a new recruiting model... and it took a recruits dad handing him the information in a folder to figure it out.
And that was probably a year ago... and they still aren’t doing well?
Iowa has only one senior leaving after this season (Sorensen), so there wasn’t a lot of money coming off of the books. They filled a need at Heavyweight with a blue-chip recruit Cassioppi, so who’s to say how much they actually offered guys like Hidlay or whoever else. Also, I’m guessing Pat Lugo didn’t transfer in for free
He does not inspire confidence. Cael yes-Smith yes- Tom R. kinda sleezy but a threat-Tom Brands over his head. I feel like you have to ask yourself in what universe is that guy as he is today going to out perform the top five coaches that anyone of us could dream up. But I was wrong last week I could be wrong now.
So now Iowa has F** too? Spin it however you want coach.
There's a difference between reading and comprehending ...
It’s a Facebook video
They got a good heavyweight. I am just saying.
No biggie. I thought of merging your post into the prior thread, but that was a post about Wittlake's flip, which kind of diverged into other topics. I felt the Brand PC deserved its own thread, which you have started.
when you are on top--you have a huge target on your back. I hope Iowa gets up and running soon..good for the sport.
I like Tom Brands and feel he's great for college wrestling. That said, his recent comments around recruiting come off as excuse-making to me. Seriously, you mean to tell me you coach at the second most storied program of all time and you can't sell around a little "negative recruiting"?? If the answer is yes, this is squarely on you and your chosen staff, Sir.
I also found it curious how Tom mentioned in his presser that he "evaluated his program (including recruiting) two years ago". Huh? One would just assume the head coach is ALWAYS evaluating his program, not nine (!) years into his tenure. Very strange.
Again, I like Tom Brands. I believe he's an honorable man and a good technical coach. But things like this make me wonder if he's stuck playing checkers while everyone else has moved on to chess.
"The veterans on the team are bums"
- Tom Brands
Meet the bottom of the bus, Iowa wrestlers not named Lee or Warner.
I'm sure Tom has all the faith in Max Murin, but I'll tell you what, it wasn't a very flattering thing to say about him in that video. Lee and Warner are the studs and Murin is the filler is basically what he said. I doubt Max Murin thinks of himself as the filler around the studs, even though he is. It's just not something you'd expect a coach to say to the media.
From his actions, demeanor and words in that video, I get the opinion that if Brands never won NCs for Iowa, he would have ended up a gym teacher at some middle school in rural Iowa.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Tom Brands has accomplished next to nothing as a head coach (taking over the best program in the country and getting one share of a B1G title and no team NC in the time after Gable left the staff at Iowa) The three team NCs he has to "his name" occurred when Dan Gable was on staff. Those are facts.
He almost single-handedly destroyed the Virginia Tech program and tanked it to an unimaginable level with a 1-15 dual meet season when he was a lame duck head coach. He held back wrestlers from competition so he could take them to Iowa with him (hopefully without losing any eligibility, which, thank goodness, didn't work), thereby not giving his best efforts to VT and, in essence, stealing the university's money. How he continues to get a pass from wrestling fans just baffles me. Now he is feeding a paranoid fan base with crazy accusations?
He seems like Humphrey Bogart playing Captain Queeg in the Caine Mutiny.
We all want to see the best in our coaches and schools, however, the Iowa board acts as if this is some revelation from the universe. Somehow now they will adjust and get back on top. It's the highest echelon of wrestling. Of course, there will be some negative recruiting. There is negative recruiting on some club teams. But you want to know what is the best negative recruiting? The Gilman episode at fight night and Brands begging Clark to throw him. The Iowa faithful lap this up. When all that does is continue to build on the Stereotype of an Iowa wrestler.
Edit lets add PD3 to the mix for fun
I'm an Iowa alum so being a visitor I'm going to try and be as respectful as possible in my post but feel free to disregard any or all of it.
First I'd like to point out that Gable was only an assistant to Brands for one season (his first year in which the team finished 8th). Gable stepped down after that year to return to his advisor to the AD role (or whatever you want to call it). In 2007-2008 the year in which Iowa won its first of 3 under Brands the coaching staff was Brands, Wes Hand, Doug Schwab, and Mike Zadick. Terry joined before the 2008-2009 season as Hand stepped down to enter the private sector. So Gable was not on the staff for any of the titles and those are the facts.
Second there is no evidence that Brands was a lame duck coach during his last year at VaTech while trying to redshirt kids to bring to Iowa as Gable worked behind the scenes to fire Zalesky as you (and others) allege. First Iowa under Zalesky was struggling, he'd finished poorly the year before he was fired losing 5 duals and placing 4th at BIGs and 7th at NCAAs, it was arguably the worst season since the mid-60s at Iowa, Zalesky followed that up losing 7 duals finishing 6th (6TH!) at BIGs and a surprising 4th at NCAAs. Many people around the program felt that the finish at the NCAAs was going to give Z another year or two but the program was trending negatively with results and there was talk of misallocating scholarships and mismanaging redshirts. With all that said the straw that broke the back was that tOSU told Hellickson it was time to retire and allegedly had Brands as one of its targets to replace him. Iowa then fired Zalesky to hire Brands (ISU removed Douglas to make sure Sanderson didn't leave for either place and the rest is history). It's also worth noting that Brands could have had guys like Metcalf go to the OTC where Terry was coaching at the time and just defer enrollment since the "master plan" was to return to Iowa the next year.
Or just maybe Brands was trying to set up the best possible team he could for VaTech and dominos fell that made his return to Iowa happen sooner than everyone expected and guys he recruited (several from Iowa that wished to be Hawks originally) decided to follow him back.
You mean he left the staff as in:
"My assistant coach's role was always temporary and I'm not going anywhere. I'll be directly involved in our wrestling program as much as NCAA rules allow me to be," said Gable.
Let us not forget that supposedly the reason for the bad blood between Brands and VTech is according to Brands, VTech was ask about possible releases (and agreed to release them) if the kids wanted to follow Brands if he got the Iowa job next season.
Pretty much everything you pointed out is accurate, but it is fairly apparent Tom believed there was a strong possibility he was moving back to Iowa City fairly soon.
Which is not the same as being on staff (which you claimed he was for all of Iowa's titles under Brands) and from my understanding is basically how Gable's largely been since he retired (I know that last couple of years under Zalesky there was some strain) and likely how he'll be until he physically can't be.
I largely agree with your post except the bold. I don't know that it was specifically next season or at any point during their eligibility. My understanding was that Brands was pretty open about Iowa being his dream job and the recruits were adamant that he was the only reason they considered VaTech and if he left they'd follow and they wanted an assurance from the AD they'd be able to leave at any point if Brands did, right, wrong or in between. But the writing was largely on the wall that Zalesky's days were numbered unless some major happened given he'd had some pretty bad seasons prior to his last year and his last year was a train wreck outside of a surprise finish at nationals. I just don't think the VaTech situation was some intentionally nefarious plot by Brands and Gable as matter seems to.
This is #fakenews. Nothing different than what has been the perception of Iowa for years and Brands basically acknowledged this a few years ago when he began mocking the "robot" thing.
Honestly, the only thing striking about this whole thing is that Larry Lee is compiling a folder about things that were said about Iowa during the recruiting process, and then is presenting it to Brands in an attempt, I guess, to contribute his input on how recruiting at Iowa can improve. And that Brands would state this in public.
Larry isnt the first to keep negative recruiting material. Hes not the first to turn it over.
Brands is the first I know to acknowledge it, in the same breath as admitting his own faults.
Sure. Tell Zalesky that and see what his response is.
But what exactly were Gable's duties when he "left the staff"? It always sounded like a move so another assistant could be hired and nothing much changed until he retired in 2011. I am shocked that Brands hasn't had more success with Gable still helping out with the program since 2011. So it really must all boil down to the double recruiting class.
I don't doubt you in the least. But it's still striking thing to me. Different strokes for different folks.
So Brands talks about Lee, Kemerrer, Murin, and Warner. Three of those guys are 2 hours from Penn State campus (at the most). Hmmm, wonder why Penn State recruits so well with a legendary coach.
the bigger take away from media day is I have yet to see anyone ask brands about GMan at fight night. That was a major headline and discussion across the wrestlesphere.
to not ask him is a joke, but then again journalism is dead.
Love ya dunke, but I'm #fakenews 'ing you again on this one. Very glad it wasn't asked. My take on it that was posted before was that this was a roast and the worst criticism I have for Gilman in this instance is that his timing sucks and his future as a stand-up sucks worse. I like the idea of sending him to this, given what it's all about, but he's a 23 year old kid who isn't polished behind the podium, and is a little awkward in terms of the mainstream.
These threads are getting good! Im going to grab a slushy and enjoy
Ummm, was that a "slush" reference? Troll!
It's not fake news cause it happened. Plus it was recent.
Otherwise love back you but they should have asked him. Just like cael should have been asked about DT's actions this summer, but nobody want's to put the work in or cause a stir.
I'm OK being wrong even when I know I'm right.
Does matter ever talk about Brands without mentioning Virginia Tech.?
It's part of his history and resume. You want me to ignore it like you do? Every time I hear what a great guy he is and what a great coach he is, I struggle with the disconnect.
That's because your heart is filled with hate for someone you have never met. Why focus all of your energy on such a thing?
I am a Brands fan
is a thing I feel I need to say sometimes to prove that I'm mature and don't hate Iowa.
He is passionate about the sport
is a thing I say because it's nicer than calling him a sociopath
I am a Brands fan
by which I really mean he's a weird little dude who needs a laxative.