Michigan has a great defense?

[Howie'81]

Then please explain this. In 4 of their 5 losses they gave up this many points:

Penn State 42 pts
Wisconsin 24
Ohio State 31
South Carolina 26

Total 123 pts
Average per game 30.8 ppg

Seems to me if that defense plays someone with a pulse, they fold.

 

[78SweetRevenge]

Then please explain this. In 4 of their 5 losses they gave up this many points:

Penn State 42 pts
Wisconsin 24
Ohio State 31
South Carolina 26

Total 123 pts
Average per game 30.8 ppg

Seems to me if that defense plays someone with a pulse, they fold.

When your offense puts them in the spots they were put in they were put points are going to be scored...lots of them.

Remember someone could look at us giving up 44 against Nebraska without really look into and say how bad our defense is

Also, 24 and 26 points really isn't bad against those teams. I'd take that

 

[LaJolla Lion]

They have a lot of talent on defense and had next to no offense last year. Whether or not they get better on O remains to be seen, but yes they will be one of the better defenses PSU faces along with Wisky and tOSU. We have seen how much stress an awful O can put on the D in the past....but don't think for a second they aren't a talented D. I don't know if that will be the case next year for them, but they have plenty of solid players back this year.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Every team has a great everything at this point. Nobody’s played a down of football yet.

 

[tboyer]

It's a good point, it's definitely fair to say they underachieved last year. But it's also worth noting that defensive stats are very closely linked to offensive stats, and last year Michigan could barely sustain drives on offense.

It's quite possible they will be great this year. Their personnel, on paper, is probably between Ohio State and PSU, and they're more experienced than both tOSU and PSU.

Their offense could very well blossom the way PSU's did when Franklin hired Moorhead and McSorley became the starter. You absolutely could see the same thing happen at Michigan with a capable OC and a very talented young QB. And if their offense is simply good I suspect their D will be very good.

But on the other hand, I think Michigan is in a fragile place. Everybody in Ann Arbor and everywhere else knows that if Harbaugh can't produce a good team this year, he's gone. Even a 3 loss season would be disappointing for them, even though given their schedule, 3 losses is very reasonable to expect. The amount of pressure they're all going to be under is tremendous.

Finally I don't think Harbaugh has really demonstrated yet that he knows how to be a great coach at Michigan. He seems to have trouble relating to players, his sideline demeanor (an indication of what he's like in practice) is always negative. He hasn't done a very good job of game management or play calling. And so far he's been underwhelming as a QB coach.

A little hard to explain because he was obviously a kick-ass coach at Stanford.

I couldn't guess what their season will be like. But there's a pretty good chance Michigan is going to be very very good.

 

[PSU87]

When your offense puts them in the spots they were put in they were put points are going to be scored...lots of them.

Remember someone could look at us giving up 44 against Nebraska without really look into and say how bad our defense is

Also, 24 and 26 points really isn't bad against those teams. I'd take that

Except S. Carolina's offense was only scoring 24.2 ppg last year, so "holding" them to 26 isn't so great.
They did hold Wisky well under their 33.8 average.

 

[78SweetRevenge]

Except S. Carolina's offense was only scoring 24.2 ppg last year, so "holding" them to 26 isn't so great.
They did hold Wisky well under their 33.8 average.

I know not many people watched that game (nor should they have it sucked) but South Carolina's offense didn't do much. Less than 300 yards total offense. Michigan forced 3 turnovers but they turned it over 5 times--that's tough for any defense to overcome. South Carolina did have two big plays which that kind of defense shouldn't allow but that point total had a lot to do with their horrible offense.

 

[Ceasar]

Just my .02 but I think college football has changed to the point where there are no great defenses any longer. Today a "great" defense is one that can keep a really good team in the 20-24 point range. That gives you a chance to win. But there is nobody out there that is holding a Penn State, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Georgia, Clemson, Alabama to 10 or 14 points. This is why, again, just my opinion, if you want to be a great football team, and I will define that by saying you have a legitimate chance to compete for a final 4 spot, you must have an offense that is going to score some points. And that's where I expect UM to fall short.
Hypothetically, they may have a better defense than a PSU or OSU, but those offenses are so good that they are going to get their 20+ points. If you give them more off turnovers or special teams now they are closing in on 30. And if your offense is just "okay", their defenses, even if not dominant, are going to hold you under 20 and the best you can hope for is to keep the score close. But you are not going to win against these teams but for the rare instance where a lot of crazy thigs happen.

 

[djr4rebs]

They are still living off the fumes of that '16 defense. They started off spectacularly dominant before the Kinnick Corn Field Snake Bite took em down.

Much like we are going to be this season, they were very young last season. Highly touted, but lacking experience. The offense did not do them any favors, but at the same time in the lower scoring games it gave the veil of "this is a dominant defense!"

When I think dominant defense, I think Alabama. Nobody runs on them. Clemson and Auburn most recently. Every pass is contested. Every yard is tough. They hurry, hit, and sack QBs and force turnovers.

 

[cjrugger]

Didn't you hear? They have the greatest defensive player in college football history, Rashan Gary. Just don't look at the fact he has 81 tackles and 6 sacks in 26 career games. Oh, and Don Brown! He's the greatest too

 

[Howie'81]

When your offense puts them in the spots they were put in they were put points are going to be scored...lots of them.

Remember someone could look at us giving up 44 against Nebraska without really look into and say how bad our defense is

Also, 24 and 26 points really isn't bad against those teams. I'd take that

It isn't great. I keep hearing their D is great and I don't believe it is.

 

[Ceasar]

Didn't you hear? They have the greatest defensive player in college football history, Rashan Gary. Just don't look at the fact he has 81 tackles and 6 sacks in 26 career games. Oh, and Don Brown! He's the greatest too

Yep, he has replaced the great Jabril Peppers as the best player in CFB, as long as nobody checks their stats.

 

[royboy]

So Shea Patterson is the savior?

Saw some practice highlights on BTN yesterday, and my first impression was "the guy looks small"
Now, I realize Trace is not the biggest guy, but he's awfully tough
Can Patterson stand up to hits?

 

[Howie'81]

They have a lot of talent on defense and had next to no offense last year. Whether or not they get better on O remains to be seen, but yes they will be one of the better defenses PSU faces along with Wisky and tOSU. We have seen how much stress an awful O can put on the D in the past....but don't think for a second they aren't a talented D. I don't know if that will be the case next year for them, but they have plenty of solid players back this year.

My point is not whether they have talent on D. They do. My point is, they are not "great."

 

[Howie'81]

Just my .02 but I think college football has changed to the point where there are no great defenses any longer. Today a "great" defense is one that can keep a really good team in the 20-24 point range. That gives you a chance to win. But there is nobody out there that is holding a Penn State, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Georgia, Clemson, Alabama to 10 or 14 points. This is why, again, just my opinion, if you want to be a great football team, and I will define that by saying you have a legitimate chance to compete for a final 4 spot, you must have an offense that is going to score some points. And that's where I expect UM to fall short.
Hypothetically, they may have a better defense than a PSU or OSU, but those offenses are so good that they are going to get their 20+ points. If you give them more off turnovers or special teams now they are closing in on 30. And if your offense is just "okay", their defenses, even if not dominant, are going to hold you under 20 and the best you can hope for is to keep the score close. But you are not going to win against these teams but for the rare instance where a lot of crazy thigs happen.

In our game against them last year, they just totally folded in the 2nd half. Our O-line was pushing them off the ball. You can see it on a number of plays. I won't argue that Michigan puts a good defense out there, but it isn't anywhere near as good as the hype they get. That's MY eye test statement on it.

 

[Howie'81]

They are still living off the fumes of that '16 defense. They started off spectacularly dominant before the Kinnick Corn Field Snake Bite took em down.

Much like we are going to be this season, they were very young last season. Highly touted, but lacking experience. The offense did not do them any favors, but at the same time in the lower scoring games it gave the veil of "this is a dominant defense!"

When I think dominant defense, I think Alabama. Nobody runs on them. Clemson and Auburn most recently. Every pass is contested. Every yard is tough. They hurry, hit, and sack QBs and force turnovers.

Precisely.

 

[AWS1022]

When your offense puts them in the spots they were put in they were put points are going to be scored...lots of them.

Remember someone could look at us giving up 44 against Nebraska without really look into and say how bad our defense is

Also, 24 and 26 points really isn't bad against those teams. I'd take that

We scored on the second play of the game and scored 14 in the first quarter....that didn’t have anything to do with their offense.

 

[AWS1022]

Their offense could very well blossom the way PSU's did when Franklin hired Moorhead and McSorley became the starter. You absolutely could see the same thing happen at Michigan with a capable OC and a very talented young QB. And if their offense is simply good I suspect their D will be very good.

But Harbaugh would have to be willing to part with his 1960’s offensive philosophy and I’m not sure he can do that.

 

[CJF_Said_The_Great_Joe_Paterno]

So Shea Patterson is the savior?

Saw some practice highlights on BTN yesterday, and my first impression was "the guy looks small"
Now, I realize Trace is not the biggest guy, but he's awfully tough
Can Patterson stand up to hits?

Agree, saw those practice highlights as well and I thought he had awful mechanics (almost like he is slinging the ball rather than firing it... - ditto the trFR UNL just named as their starter imho, very similar throwing styles and it looks horrendous especially for mid-to-long downfield passes).

 

[SR108]

Then please explain this. In 4 of their 5 losses they gave up this many points:

Penn State 42 pts
Wisconsin 24
Ohio State 31
South Carolina 26

Total 123 pts
Average per game 30.8 ppg

Seems to me if that defense plays someone with a pulse, they fold.

When you ask linebackers to cover a slot receiver like Hamilton or a running back like Saquon your going to give up big plays.

 

[Howie'81]

We scored on the second play of the game and scored 14 in the first quarter....that didn’t have anything to do with their offense.

Are you trying to confuse people? lol

 

[Howie'81]

Well - if that was the ONLY UMich game your eyes saw, that makes sense.

But, that was:

- ONE Game
- Their worst game of the year (by far)
- Going up against a top-notch offense that was hitting on all cylinders
- With at least a couple guys (including Gary) playing through some injuries
- Aside from the PSU game (where PSU put up 500 yards) the UMich defense surrendered an average of 250 TOTAL yards per game.
- Aside from PSU, the highest offensive output against UMich all year was 350 yards for Ohio State.


Michigan's defense is loaded with talent (it was last year, and is for this year).
They are good over there - their Offense sucked donkey sack.

Nonsense. I saw freakin' Air Force move the ball on them with some big plays.

 

[Howie'81]

When you ask linebackers to cover a slot receiver like Hamilton or a running back like Saquon your going to give up big plays.

Right, and a great defense doesn't give up big plays. My goodness, we had big plays all over the freaking field that night and frankly we called off the dogs at the end when we were going in for another score.

 

[royboy]

Agree, saw those practice highlights as well and I thought he had awful mechanics (almost like he is slinging the ball rather than firing it... - ditto the trFR UNL just named as their starter imho, very similar throwing styles and it looks horrendous especially for mid-to-long downfield passes).

Shea Patterson = Tate Forcier 2.0?

 

[ivan brunetti]

My point is not whether they have talent on D. They do. My point is, they are not "great."

Ten new starters on defense in 2017. Two new starters in 2018.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

My point is not whether they have talent on D. They do. My point is, they are not "great."

Possibly, but we don't know for sure yet. They have a ton of guys returning and some of which are pretty talented. No team is great prior to game 1, but let's not pretend UM is going to be a cake walk just yet.

 

[N&B4PSU]

So Shea Patterson is the savior?

Saw some practice highlights on BTN yesterday, and my first impression was "the guy looks small"
Now, I realize Trace is not the biggest guy, but he's awfully tough
Can Patterson stand up to hits?

Isn't that Jake Moody?... 177 lbs. Patterson is 6'2 205. Of course Sessa is 6'8, so everyone looks like a shrimp, lol.

 

[Howie'81]

Possibly, but we don't know for sure yet. They have a ton of guys returning and some of which are pretty talented. No team is great prior to game 1, but let's not pretend UM is going to be a cake walk just yet.

Never said they would be. People every year expect Penn State to show they are good on the field, yet when it comes to Michigan, everyone says they are good in the newspapers and sports blogs. I'll have to see it. I do expect us to beat them this year in Ann Arbor. But maybe we won't. Maybe they really will be great. But for me anyway, they need to prove it.

 

[SR108]

Possibly, but we don't know for sure yet. They have a ton of guys returning and some of which are pretty talented. No team is great prior to game 1, but let's not pretend UM is going to be a cake walk just yet.

They need to reconsider their scheme vs our offense, or they may have the same result this year. Moorehead exposed Brown's aggressive man scheme last year.

 

[YorkCoLion]

Well - if that was the ONLY UMich game your eyes saw, that makes sense.

But, that was:

- ONE Game
- Their worst game of the year (by far)
- Going up against a top-notch offense that was hitting on all cylinders
- With at least a couple guys (including Gary) playing through some injuries
- Aside from the PSU game (where PSU put up 500 yards) the UMich defense surrendered an average of 250 TOTAL yards per game.
- Aside from PSU, the highest offensive output against UMich all year was 350 yards for Ohio State.


Michigan's defense is loaded with talent (it was last year, and is for this year).
They are good over there - their Offense sucked donkey sack.

It never ceases to amaze how many posters on a PSU board are always here to defend any possible negative comment concerning our opponents.

 

[78SweetRevenge]

It isn't great. I keep hearing their D is great and I don't believe it is.

That defense is great for a college team in this era

 

[Cosmos]

It's a good point, it's definitely fair to say they underachieved last year. But it's also worth noting that defensive stats are very closely linked to offensive stats, and last year Michigan could barely sustain drives on offense.

It's quite possible they will be great this year. Their personnel, on paper, is probably between Ohio State and PSU, and they're more experienced than both tOSU and PSU.

Their offense could very well blossom the way PSU's did when Franklin hired Moorhead and McSorley became the starter. You absolutely could see the same thing happen at Michigan with a capable OC and a very talented young QB. And if their offense is simply good I suspect their D will be very good.

But on the other hand, I think Michigan is in a fragile place. Everybody in Ann Arbor and everywhere else knows that if Harbaugh can't produce a good team this year, he's gone. Even a 3 loss season would be disappointing for them, even though given their schedule, 3 losses is very reasonable to expect. The amount of pressure they're all going to be under is tremendous.

Finally I don't think Harbaugh has really demonstrated yet that he knows how to be a great coach at Michigan. He seems to have trouble relating to players, his sideline demeanor (an indication of what he's like in practice) is always negative. He hasn't done a very good job of game management or play calling. And so far he's been underwhelming as a QB coach.

A little hard to explain because he was obviously a kick-ass coach at Stanford.

I couldn't guess what their season will be like. But there's a pretty good chance Michigan is going to be very very good.

Here’s the avg. recruiting class rankings per Rivals over the last 5 years. We beat out Meatchicken in 2015 and nearly beat them out in 2017 when they had nine more signees than us. So while it’s true “we are somewhere between OSU and Michigan” in terms of raw talent, the gap is closing. Also of note, we finished behind Sparty in 2014 and 2016. That’s not going to happen anymore.

2014 2 OSU, 15 Meat, 23 PSU (4th in B1G)

2015 11 OSU, 19 Meat, 14 PSU (2nd in B1G)

2016 2 OSU, 9 Meat, 21 PSU (4th in B1G)

2017 1 OSU, 9 Meat, 12 PSU (3rd in B1G)

2018* 4 OSU, 19 Meat, 6 PSU (2nd in B1G)

I believe it’s imperative we go at least 9-3 this season if we’re to hold the 2018 class together, improve upon it and finish in the top 12. IMO that’s where we need to be if we are to continue the momentum. In closing, if we’ve got Ohio State looking over their shoulder then we damn well have Meatchicken looking, too. We can only hope our kids meld into our system better than theirs do. And this bespeaks to getting the ‘Penn State type of kid’. I thank you.

 

[Howie'81]

Check you glasses

Air Force totaled 232 yards of offense (averaged 3.4 YPC in the ground game.... completed ONE pass the entire game....ONE - which was a big gainer, so they had that LOL)


In the three game losing streak to end the season, the UMich defense gave up total yardage of 300, 325, and 350 yards..... despite getting zero help from their offense.
Michigan's OFFENSE over that three game span, ran the ball 106 times for 232 yards (If my math is correct , that is 2.2 yards per carry..... completed just 45% of their passes..... averaged LESS THAN 270 total yards per game (that is hard to do if you're trying)….. and turned the ball over 7 times.
THAT is why they struggled.

Okay stormingnorm, the Michigan defense is great. That what you want me to say even though it's a lie?

 

[78SweetRevenge]

We scored on the second play of the game and scored 14 in the first quarter....that didn’t have anything to do with their offense.

I wasn't talking about our game...I was talking in general.
Giving up points to Penn State and Ohio State doesn't make a defense bad

 

[Howie'81]

That defense is great for a college team in this era

Well, you are just wrong.....

 

[Howie'81]

I wasn't talking about our game...I was talking in general.
Giving up points to Penn State and Ohio State doesn't make a defense bad

Hey, did you see what my post was about? Doesn't seem so. I said their defense is not great. And it isn't.

 

[78SweetRevenge]

Nonsense. I saw freakin' Air Force move the ball on them with some big plays.

Air Force gets yards against everyone--the triple option isn't east to defend. Scheduling an academy is always risky. Air Force had 160 some rushing yards against Michigan--that's pretty much nothing. 2 runs over 20 I believe. Again, nothing. What game were you watching?

 

[royboy]

Isn't that Jake Moody?... 177 lbs. Patterson is 6'2 205. Of course Sessa is 6'8, so everyone looks like a shrimp, lol.

Well, could be, but Patterson looked small in the BTN practice coverage, and looks small in other images I see of him.

 

[78SweetRevenge]

Hey, did you see what my post was about? Doesn't seem so. I said their defense is not great. And it isn't.

You referenced Wisconsin and South Carolina as well. They did a great job against Wisconsin holding them below their average. This is one of those times that you simply refuse to give another program credit. Their D was better than our's last year

 

[Howie'81]

Yep.... that's it. Exactly. You cracked the code.

Won't be surprised if ND shreds them.