MBB: IU @ BJC, 7 pm Tonight

[GregInPitt]

People need to lower their expectations for 2019. The B1G is gonna be tough but if they can go .500 in league play maybe they have an outside shot at something in the post season. Next year should be nice and the year after really special

As long as Pat is in charge, our expectations could not get much lower.

It seems the next "special" time for PSU BB may be defined as the hope that comes from a new coach.....

But I'll bit... who are the athletic big men in your dream for the next couple of years?

 

[2020 is Our Year]

So kids in year 5 should be able to shoot free throws better than kids in year 1. Sorry but I think that's ridiculous.

Who recruited these kids? Who continues to play these kids? Who has guards that can't shoot FTs at all? Who doesn't have an offensive scheme? This is so much more than missing FTs. It is everything. Chambers needs to go and that has been true for a long time.

 

[AWS1022]

So kids in year 5 should be able to shoot free throws better than kids in year 1. Sorry but I think that's ridiculous.

Yes, kids in year 5 should be able to shoot free throws better and pass better and play better defense and have a better offense. That’s called coaching. If you can’t improve your players in all aspects of the game 5 years after you start (or 8 years in this case) then you’re not doing a very good job of coaching.

 

[nits74]

To be honest, hard to really expect much this year after Carr left. We should be better in two years when the next classes are established and playing. Hopefully even good next year if Stevens stays. Nice to at least get the NIT banner last year though, shows we probably should have made the NCAA!

If only I had a nickel every time I've heard this over so many years. Never forget this is Penn State basketball we're talking about here. Not changin'.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Yes, kids in year 5 should be able to shoot free throws better and pass better and play better defense and have a better offense. That’s called coaching. If you can’t improve your players in all aspects of the game 5 years after you start (or 8 years in this case) then you’re not doing a very good job of coaching.

It must be frustrating for Pat to be so close all the time. I don't really get why these close games almost never fall in his direction - but after eight years it's more than just bad luck.

I don't know who PSU should go with next. I don't even know if it is a great move to fire Pat one year into a contract - but he really isn't getting it done. He should have had things rolling by the time Newbill graduated, or even before that when he inherited Frazier. And certainly last year. That was the best team that nobody knew about. It should have been a top 25 team for most of the season and should have been a #4 seed or higher. That is how talented they were. Likewise, this team should be about 7-1 and ranked around #25 right now. That's what could be happening with these players and this schedule. I don't understand it. I hate to say it, but I think that Dunn and maybe even DeChellis would have had this train rolling with these players. Ok, not DeChellis.

 

[Nit16]

As long as Pat is in charge, our expectations could not get much lower.

It seems the next "special" time for PSU BB may be defined as the hope that comes from a new coach.....

But I'll bit... who are the athletic big men in your dream for the next couple of years?

The Pat’s our guy ground hog story is a joke. When will people realize he just isn’t a very good Big Ten coach. He sucks. To me it’s obvious.

 

[Nit16]

To be honest, hard to really expect much this year after Carr left. We should be better in two years when the next classes are established and playing. Hopefully even good next year if Stevens stays. Nice to at least get the NIT banner last year though, shows we probably should have made the NCAA!

Pathetic

 

[johnmpsu]

Yes, kids in year 5 should be able to shoot free throws better and pass better and play better defense and have a better offense. That’s called coaching. If you can’t improve your players in all aspects of the game 5 years after you start (or 8 years in this case) then you’re not doing a very good job of coaching.

Wow so a Freshman in year 8 is going to shoot free throws better than a Freshman in year 1. Thanks for enlightening me.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Wow so a Freshman in year 8 is going to shoot free throws better than a Freshman in year 1. Thanks for enlightening me.

Your point is taken - all else equal that makes no sense.

But everyone who has followed this program since at least the 1990s is well aware that this staff, for all of their faults, has massively upgraded the talent. To the point where we now have freshmen and sophomores who are better than most of the seniors were when he got here. So I also see the other poster's point. Things should be going better. These aren't freshmen who can't play at this level. And Pat has had underclassmen who are talented enough to compete for three or four seasons now.

 

[BobPSU92]

Wow so a Freshman in year 8 is going to shoot free throws better than a Freshman in year 1. Thanks for enlightening me.

The recruiting should be better by Year 8. Plenty of college freshmen basketball players are capable free-throw shooters.

FUNDAMENTALS.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

The recruiting should be better by Year 8. Plenty of college freshmen basketball players are capable free-throw shooters.

And what makes it even worse is that the recruiting is better. But the players come in and we have the exact same outcome as before. They lost to IU because they went 11-26 in free throws, or something horrible like that. We keep seeing the same problems year after year.

 

[Storm at Sea]

So when the team shoots 80% from the free throw line I'll expect to see you here proclaiming how great the coach is. Sorry, not buying it.

It's known in the industry that FT percentages are linked closely to coaching emphasis and a coach's CHOICE to practice FT or not during practice. Chambers had good shooters last year, and decent FT % last year. My suspicion is that that they aren't shooting many FT this year in practice despite having a younger team.

Wow so a Freshman in year 8 is going to shoot free throws better than a Freshman in year 1. Thanks for enlightening me.

 

[AWS1022]

Wow so a Freshman in year 8 is going to shoot free throws better than a Freshman in year 1. Thanks for enlightening me.

It wasn’t just the freshmen that were horrible at the line, our senior was awful and Stevens wasn’t very good either. Indiana’s freshman didn’t seem to have a problem at the line. By year 8 the overall level of basketball should be better. We shouldn’t be having multiple turnovers every game, poor shooting from the field and the foul line, and committing stupid fouls. It’s apparent you need enlightened.

 

[AWS1022]

It must be frustrating for Pat to be so close all the time. I don't really get why these close games almost never fall in his direction - but after eight years it's more than just bad luck.

I don't know who PSU should go with next. I don't even know if it is a great move to fire Pat one year into a contract - but he really isn't getting it done. He should have had things rolling by the time Newbill graduated, or even before that when he inherited Frazier. And certainly last year. That was the best team that nobody knew about. It should have been a top 25 team for most of the season and should have been a #4 seed or higher. That is how talented they were. Likewise, this team should be about 7-1 and ranked around #25 right now. That's what could be happening with these players and this schedule. I don't understand it. I hate to say it, but I think that Dunn and maybe even DeChellis would have had this train rolling with these players. Ok, not DeChellis.

DeChellis would have had us in the tourney at least once.

 

[BobPSU92]

It wasn’t just the freshmen that were horrible at the line, our senior was awful and Stevens wasn’t very good either. Indiana’s freshman didn’t seem to have a problem at the line. By year 8 the overall level of basketball should be better. We shouldn’t be having multiple turnovers every game, poor shooting from the field and the foul line, and committing stupid fouls. It’s apparent you need enlightened.

But we are CLIMBING. .

 

[GregInPitt]

The Pat’s our guy ground hog story is a joke. When will people realize he just isn’t a very good Big Ten coach. He sucks. To me it’s obvious.

Yes, and with so many years gone by and the same sorry game management and strategy exhibited (and similar sorry game day coaching by the women's BB coach) I believe Sandy is clueless regarding BB coaching as well. Sandy should also get booted as she has no clue. Forget writing to Sandy, it's time to write to the President and BOT in order to get a competent athletic director to straighten out the BB programs.....

 

[bison13]

While yesterdays loss and most of todays bickering is about FT, only the guys who are truly Pat defenders keep bringing up the FT thing, putting it all on the kids. If you really understand the game you see the lack of thinking on that inbounds play at the end. The lack of offense defense sub patterns when down. The silly defensive schemes to post post double when not needed (against MD), the lack of offensive creativity early in the shot clock, etc.... By the way you want to make them better FT shooters, change up your practice routine with it, make them shoot more of them while tired, make them shoot different amounts, remind them to use their legs more, something. Also change up your game day and pregame shooting routines. So yes there are coaching things that lead to improved FT shooting.

 

[BobPSU92]

It just isn't working. At this time last year, some were talking that we were tournament-bound with the talent we had. Nope. NIT. So we won the NIT. So what? It was an inconsistent team. Some good, a lot of bad. Live and die by the 3, no other real offense. Bad coaching.

This year, some have been talking that we are tournament-bound with the talent we have. Nope. We're sitting at 4-4 with three losses to unranked teams. You can't say this team is progressing with losses to DePaul and Bradley. All four games were winnable, and they faltered down the stretch in all of them. This just isn't a good team. It is what it is. It's always the same.

 

[LioninNC]

I am still convinced that the Penn State athletic department isn’t willing to spend the $$$ they would need to spend to attract a coach that can compete for Big Ten championships and make the NCAA tournament most years. I think the athletic dept is perfectly satisfied with a coach that is on the low end of the salary scale and has a record like Dunn, DeChellis, and Chambers. This approach, basically Penn State basketball for the last 25 years or so, allows them to make a nice multi-million dollar profit from the basketball revenue shared by the conference and they are quite happy to collect it every year.

 

[wlawn]

While yesterdays loss and most of todays bickering is about FT, only the guys who are truly Pat defenders keep bringing up the FT thing, putting it all on the kids. If you really understand the game you see the lack of thinking on that inbounds play at the end. The lack of offense defense sub patterns when down. The silly defensive schemes to post post double when not needed (against MD), the lack of offensive creativity early in the shot clock, etc.... By the way you want to make them better FT shooters, change up your practice routine with it, make them shoot more of them while tired, make them shoot different amounts, remind them to use their legs more, something. Also change up your game day and pregame shooting routines. So yes there are coaching things that lead to improved FT shooting.

So Reaves who came into the game shooting 83% from the line goes 1-6 and this is Chambers fault....Gotcha

 

[fairgambit]

I am still convinced that the Penn State athletic department isn’t willing to spend the $$$ they would need to spend to attract a coach that can compete for Big Ten championships and make the NCAA tournament most years. I think the athletic dept is perfectly satisfied with a coach that is on the low end of the salary scale and has a record like Dunn, DeChellis, and Chambers. This approach, basically Penn State basketball for the last 25 years or so, allows them to make a nice multi-million dollar profit from the basketball revenue shared by the conference and they are quite happy to collect it every year.

I agree. Basketball simply is not a priority. They have national athletic stature beyond football with sports like wrestling, women's volleyball, and some other minor sports like field hockey and fencing. That is enough for them. It appears no alums with big pockets are willing to demand a better basketball product, so the AD coasts along in the BigTen money stream and keeps repeating the mantra "Next Year".

 

[psugisher]

Wash, rinse & repeat. We’ve seen this act before. Start out strong just to give you a glimmer of hope that tonight might be different, stink out the joint in the middle of the game and then a rousing comeback that falls juuust short, once again to make you think that better times are ahead in the next game, with a ready made excuse, this time 11-26 from the FT line, again just to get you to think that they won’t possibly be that bad the next game, except they will be. It’s the basketball version of Groundhog Day.

Yup, 9-0 to start, 30 minutes of garbage basketball and then a furious finish that leaves us short if we aren't absolutely perfect down the stretch. Happens over and over again. WTF is going on in those 30 minutes of garbage? Fix that. It's been 8 years of this. It's not new. 8 years of excuses but the games play out the same no matter the talent. Sometimes a talented player wins it at the end. Most are just bad losses like last night. We should've been up 6-8 points down the stretch with Indiana needing to be perfect to steal a win. The talent has been plenty good enough the last two years to be in the tournament both years. When do the excuses stop?

 

[bison13]

So Reaves who came into the game shooting 83% from the line goes 1-6 and this is Chambers fault....Gotcha

Just proving my point that you are stuck on teh FT thing. It's way more than FT. Understand the game.

 

[bdgan]

Yup, 9-0 to start, 30 minutes of garbage basketball and then a furious finish that leaves us short if we aren't absolutely perfect down the stretch. Happens over and over again. WTF is going on in those 30 minutes of garbage? Fix that. It's been 8 years of this. It's not new. 8 years of excuses but the games play out the same no matter the talent. Sometimes a talented player wins it at the end. Most are just bad losses like last night. We should've been up 6-8 points down the stretch with Indiana needing to be perfect to steal a win. The talent has been plenty good enough the last two years to be in the tournament both years. When do the excuses stop?

Penn State has some roster problems. Our big men are overpowered by good teams like Maryland and out guards are not physically mature enough to be able to successfully drive the ball to the basket. Three of our 5 starters are not a serious scoring threat (Wheeler, Harrar, Reaves) and that puts a lot of pressure on Stevens (who gets double teamed) and true freshmen (Bolton, Dread, Jones).

It's going to take a year for the freshmen to mature and who knows if Stevens and Watkins will be around when they leave. If not, we'll have some good sophomores and inexperienced big men next year.

 

[AWS1022]

While yesterdays loss and most of todays bickering is about FT, only the guys who are truly Pat defenders keep bringing up the FT thing, putting it all on the kids. If you really understand the game you see the lack of thinking on that inbounds play at the end. The lack of offense defense sub patterns when down. The silly defensive schemes to post post double when not needed (against MD), the lack of offensive creativity early in the shot clock, etc.... By the way you want to make them better FT shooters, change up your practice routine with it, make them shoot more of them while tired, make them shoot different amounts, remind them to use their legs more, something. Also change up your game day and pregame shooting routines. So yes there are coaching things that lead to improved FT shooting.

How about fouling with 5 seconds left on the shot clock with 30 seconds left in the game down by two. Either foul right away or don’t foul. The stupid fouls continue...they lost the MD game because of all the fouls they committed. I’m also not sure why Watkins basically didn’t play in the second half, but if he’s able to go you play him. And never have a lineup with Harrar, Buttrick and Wheeler in at the same time....that is three guys who play no offense out there at the same time.

 

[bdgan]

How about fouling with 5 seconds left on the shot clock with 30 seconds left in the game down by two. Either foul right away or don’t foul.

Dread has freshmanitis.

 

[psudsl08]

When many were calling for his firing over the last 2 years, I supported keeping Chambers as the coach through this season. He's upgraded the talent immensely and I didn't see any benefit in changing coaches with guys like Dread and Bolton coming on. However, we're seeing the same patterns as before: no offense, 2 bad OOC losses to start the year, 0-2 in the BT against the teams we need to beat or split games with to make the tourney.

If he can't get the team over the hump this year, it's time to look elsewhere. However, as long as the admin view MBB as a profit generator as opposed to a program that needs serious financial backing, we're going to keep landing Horizon league coaches at $1M and see the same results.

 

[mdking001]

I have had Chambers back for years and have enjoyed the ups that went along with the downs. But at this point I am open for change for change sake. Before I didn't care for a change because for reasons beyond my understanding PSU Sports Admin and board really care less about basketball programs. So my thought is why mess with something that at least gets us on the bubble most years and wins NIT once in awhile.

If someone told me PSU will change their mindset to elevate the program to compete like the 6-7 B10 bb teams that are in top 30 computer rankings right now that also are going to bowl games and care about football, then I would say please do it today. But since that isn't the case, I have been in no rush. After last night and Maryland and Depaul I am ready. I know VT was huge but I am not sure that team is even ranked at end of year.

I am disappointed as I really am (was) rooting for Pat!

 

[jim cummings]

I’ll be on the wagon for change only if it’s some sort of big name. It’s a harsh reality, but pat is as good as this school will ever get.

Option 2 is to just not watch anymore.

 

[wlawn]

Just proving my point that you are stuck on teh FT thing. It's way more than FT. Understand the game.

Understand the game, now that's funny. I have coached over 1,000 games and our winning percent is hovering at 80%. pissing contest is over pal.

 

[bison13]

Understand the game, now that's funny. I have coached over 1,000 games and our winning percent is hovering at 80%. pissing contest is over pal.

Well I have as well in HS in MD and college level as an assistant. SO there tough guy

 

[bison13]

How about fouling with 5 seconds left on the shot clock with 30 seconds left in the game down by two. Either foul right away or don’t foul. The stupid fouls continue...they lost the MD game because of all the fouls they committed. I’m also not sure why Watkins basically didn’t play in the second half, but if he’s able to go you play him. And never have a lineup with Harrar, Buttrick and Wheeler in at the same time....that is three guys who play no offense out there at the same time.

Agree, but I would have had two pages of all the bad game day coaching things if I included. Though I dont think they foul with 5 sec was that bad as the kid was just trying to play D but couldnt move his feet.

 

[psugisher]

Penn State has some roster problems. Our big men are overpowered by good teams like Maryland and out guards are not physically mature enough to be able to successfully drive the ball to the basket. Three of our 5 starters are not a serious scoring threat (Wheeler, Harrar, Reaves) and that puts a lot of pressure on Stevens (who gets double teamed) and true freshmen (Bolton, Dread, Jones).

It's going to take a year for the freshmen to mature and who knows if Stevens and Watkins will be around when they leave. If not, we'll have some good sophomores and inexperienced big men next year.

Next year.. those words need to get thrown in the trash. Carr, Watkins, Stevens, Reaves.. if they all go through the program and we're not in the NCAA's once while they were here, we're never going to get there with Chambers as coach. What's the point of having talent if they aren't winning? Reaves is a scoring threat and needs to have a bigger role in the offense. We ran a couple nice plays last night that got Watkins dunks and layups, yet he played only 11 minutes. What is that about? There's enough offense to win games with the type of defense this team plays. I have to give credit for their defensive effort.

There's experienced talent on this roster along with the young talent. It's a good mix. Pat needs to mesh it together and get this team to the NCAA's this year. That's the bottom line. It's falling apart quick. Too many bad starts to the conference season. Too many dumb non-con losses.

 

[Storm at Sea]

Understand the game, now that's funny. I have coached over 1,000 games and our winning percent is hovering at 80%. pissing contest is over pal.

That's a lot of years coaching middle school ball. Do you practice FT's in practice?

 

[wlawn]

Your close a$$HOLE...High School 700+ wins...12 district 3 titles and a State title at BJC.

 

[BobPSU92]

GET. OFF. OUR. WLAWN.

 

[bdgan]

Next year.. those words need to get thrown in the trash. Carr, Watkins, Stevens, Reaves.. if they all go through the program and we're not in the NCAA's once while they were here, we're never going to get there with Chambers as coach. What's the point of having talent if they aren't winning? Reaves is a scoring threat and needs to have a bigger role in the offense. We ran a couple nice plays last night that got Watkins dunks and layups, yet he played only 11 minutes. What is that about? There's enough offense to win games with the type of defense this team plays. I have to give credit for their defensive effort.

There's experienced talent on this roster along with the young talent. It's a good mix. Pat needs to mesh it together and get this team to the NCAA's this year. That's the bottom line. It's falling apart quick. Too many bad starts to the conference season. Too many dumb non-con losses.

I don't understand why Watkins only played 11 minutes. It's obvious that he's rusty and has to work his way back but he's more of a threat than Harrar even at this stage. It makes me wonder if there's more to Watkins' situatiuon than what we've been told.

I think you're wronmg about Reaves being a serious scoring threat. He's a senior and if he was going to be a serious scoring threat we would have seen it by now. Reaves is incredibly athletic but not a reliable scorer. He shoots about 40% from the filed but a lot of those are dunks and put backs. He shoots about 35% from 3 which is poor but not terrible. The thing is he can make that shot when he's set but he can't create his own shot. He shoots over 70% from the FT. I have no idea what happened there last night.

Wheeler is also athletic but he's not a scoring threat either. During Wheeler's year and a half he has shot 35% from the field, 15% from 3, and 43% from the foul line. I doubt that he has even made 50% of his layups.

I think most teams can get a lot of minutes from their defensive specialists but you can't live with 2 or 3 of them in the lineup. That puts too much stress on guys like Stevens and the freshmen.

 

[dcf4psu]

I’ll be on the wagon for change only if it’s some sort of big name. It’s a harsh reality, but pat is as good as this school will ever get.

Option 2 is to just not watch anymore.

I disagree. You hire an assistant from an established program - see PITT. Who knows how well PITT will do in the conference but overall they already look way better than they were last year.

 

[psugisher]

I don't understand why Watkins only played 11 minutes. It's obvious that he's rusty and has to work his way back but he's more of a threat than Harrar even at this stage. It makes me wonder if there's more to Watkins' situatiuon than what we've been told.

I think you're wronmg about Reaves being a serious scoring threat. He's a senior and if he was going to be a serious scoring threat we would have seen it by now. Reaves is incredibly athletic but not a reliable scorer. He shoots about 40% from the filed but a lot of those are dunks and put backs. He shoots about 35% from 3 which is poor but not terrible. The thing is he can make that shot when he's set but he can't create his own shot. He shoots over 70% from the FT. I have no idea what happened there last night.

Wheeler is also athletic but he's not a scoring threat either. During Wheeler's year and a half he has shot 35% from the field, 15% from 3, and 43% from the foul line. I doubt that he has even made 50% of his layups.

I think most teams can get a lot of minutes from their defensive specialists but you can't live with 2 or 3 of them in the lineup. That puts too much stress on guys like Stevens and the freshmen.

Agree to disagree with Reaves. His 3 point shot has improved each year from 7%.. that's right.. 7.. to 32 percent as a soph to 37 percent last year. His scoring has increased each year as well. He shot 48 percent from the field last year. Averaged 10 points a game on an average of only 8 shots. Pretty efficient. Despite Shep and Tony leaving, he's still only averaging 8 shots a game. He runs the two man game with Watkins better than anyone else. They play off each other well. I'd just like to see more of it because one of them usually gets an easy shot out of it. Don't see many easy shots for this offense currently..

 

[bdgan]

Agree to disagree with Reaves. His 3 point shot has improved each year from 7%.. that's right.. 7.. to 32 percent as a soph to 37 percent last year. His scoring has increased each year as well. He shot 48 percent from the field last year. Averaged 10 points a game on an average of only 8 shots. Pretty efficient. Despite Shep and Tony leaving, he's still only averaging 8 shots a game. He runs the two man game with Watkins better than anyone else. They play off each other well. I'd just like to see more of it because one of them usually gets an easy shot out of it. Don't see many easy shots for this offense currently..

Last year Carr shot 43% from 3 pt range. Opponents put a lot of effort into stopping Carr, Stevens, and Shep. That opened up shots for guys like Reaves when they reversed the ball or when they drove to the paint and kicked it out. Reaves doesn't have that advantage this year. He has a decent set shot but he hasn't proven that he can create his own offense and I don't see that changing much at this point in his career.

I'm fearful that the same thing is true for Watkins. Carr pulled the defense away from the basket. When Watkins set a high screen he was often open when he rolled to the basket. Wheeler isn't a deep threat and he's 3" shorter than Carr so the screen roll isn't nearly as successful. PSU has a better chance with Bolton but he's still developing. He's only shooting 35% from 3 and he's 20+ lbs lighter than Carr. Bolton has a great future but it's going to take him a while to reach his potential.

Yes, Reaves can throw the alley oop pass on a backdoor cut but he's just not going to attract defenders the way Carr was able to do.