Mask Facts & List of Studies Re: Mask Effectiveness

Discussion in 'Test/Politics Board' started by WeR0206, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. WeR0206

    WeR0206 Well-Known Member
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    https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

    Transmission of SARS-CoV-2

    Note: A COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2) particle is 0.125 micrometers (μm); influenza virus size is 0.08 – 0.12 μm; a human hair is about 150 μm.

    *1 nm = 0.001 micron; 1000 nm = 1 micron; Micrometer (μm) is the preferred name for micron (an older term)

    1 meter is = 1,000,000,000 nm or 1,000,000 microns

    Droplets

    Air currents

    • In air conditioned environment these large droplets may travel farther.
    • However, ventilation — even the opening of an entrance door and a small window can dilute the number of small droplets to one half after 30 seconds. (This study looked at droplets from uninfected persons). This is clinically relevant because poorly ventilated and populated spaces, like public transport and nursing homes, have high SARS-CoV-2 disease transmission despite physical distancing. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30245-9/fulltext
    Objects and surfaces

    • Person to person touching
    • The CDC’s most recent statement regarding contracting COVID-19 from touching surfaces: “Based on data from lab studies on Covid-19 and what we know about similar respiratory diseases, it may be possible that a person can get Covid-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose or possibly their eyes,” the agency wrote. “But this isn’t thought to be the main way the virus spreads. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0522-cdc-updates-covid-transmission.html.
    • Chinese study with data taken from swabs on surfaces around the hospital
      https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0885_article?deliveryName=USCDC_333-DM25707
      • The surfaces where tested with the PCR (polymerase chain reaction) test, which greatly amplifies the viral genetic material if it is present. That material is detectable when a person is actively infected. This is thought to be the most reliable test.
        • Computer mouse (ICU 6/8, 75%; General ward (GW) 1/5, 20%)
        • Trash cans (ICU 3/5, 60%; GW 0/8)
        • Sickbed handrails (ICU 6/14, 42.9%; GW 0/12)
        • Doorknobs (GW 1/12, 8.3%)
        • 81.3% of the miscellaneous personal items were positive:
          • Exercise equipment
          • Medical equipment (spirometer, pulse oximeter, nasal cannula)
          • PC and iPads
          • Reading glasses
          • Cellular phones (83.3% positive for viral RNA)
          • Remote controls for in-room TVs (64.7% percent positive)
          • Toilets (81.0% positive)
          • Room surfaces (80.4% of all sampled)
          • Bedside tables and bed rails (75.0%)
          • Window ledges (81.8%)
          • Plastic: up to 2-3 days
          • Stainless Steel: up to 2-3 days
          • Cardboard: up to 1 day
          • Copper: up to 4 hours
          • Floor – gravity causes droplets to fall to the floor. Half of ICU workers all had virus on the bottoms of their shoes
    Filter Efficiency and Fit

    *Data from a University of Illinois at Chicago review

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...ntary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

    • HEPA (high efficiency particulate air) filters – 99.97 – 100% efficient. HEPA filters are tested with particles that are 0.125 μm.
    • Masks and respirators work by collecting particles through several physical mechanisms, including diffusion (small particles) and interception and impaction (large particles)
    • N95 filtering facepiece respirators (FFRs) are constructed from electret (a dielectric material that has a quasi-permanent electric charge. An electret generates internal and external electric fields so the filter material has electrostatic attraction for additional collection of all particle sizes. As flow increases, particles will be collected less efficiently.
    • N95 – A properly fitted N95 will block 95% of tiny air particles down to 0.3 μm from reaching the wearer’s face. https://www.honeywell.com/en-us/newsroom/news/2020/03/n95-masks-explained.
      • But even these have problems: many have exhalation valve for easier breathing and less moisture inside the mask.
      • Filter efficiency was measured across a wide range of small particle sizes (0.02 to 1 µm) at 33 and 99 L/min.
        • N95 respirators had efficiencies greater than 95% (as expected).
        • T-shirts had 10% efficiency,
        • Scarves 10% to 20%,
        • Cloth masks 10% to 30%,
        • Sweatshirts 20% to 40%, and
        • Towels 40%.
        • All of the cloth masks and materials had near zero efficiency at 0.3 µm, a particle size that easily penetrates into the lungs.
        • Another study evaluated 44 masks, respirators, and other materials with similar methods and small aerosols (0.08 and 0.22 µm).
          • N95 FFR filter efficiency was greater than 95%.
          • Medical masks – 55% efficiency
          • General masks – 38% and
          • Handkerchiefs – 2% (one layer) to 13% (four layers) efficiency.
        • Conclusion: Wearing masks will not reduce SARS-CoV-2.
          • N95 masks protect health care workers, but are not recommended for source control transmission.
          • Surgical masks are better than cloth but not very efficient at preventing emissions from infected patients.
          • Cloth masks will be ineffective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 transmission, whether worn as source control or as personal protective equipment (PPE).
    “Masks may confuse that message and give people a false sense of security. If masks had been the solution in Asia, shouldn’t they have stopped the pandemic before it spread elsewhere?”

    *The first randomized controlled trial of cloth masks. https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

    • Penetration of cloth masks by particles was 97% and medical masks 44%, 3M Vflex 9105 N95 (0.1%), 3M 9320 N95 (<0.01%).
      • Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection.
      • The virus may survive on the surface of the face- masks
      • Self-contamination through repeated use and improper doffing is possible. A contaminated cloth mask may transfer pathogen from the mask to the bare hands of the wearer.
      • Cloth masks should not be recommended for health care workers, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.
    *A study of 4 patients in South Korea

    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

    Known patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 wore masks and coughed into a Petrie dish. “Both surgical and cotton masks seem to be ineffective in preventing the dissemination of SARS–CoV-2 from the coughs of patients with COVID-19 to the environment and external mask surface.”

    *Singapore Study – Few people used mask correctly

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/publichealth/86601

    Overall, data were collected from 714 men and women. About half the sample were women and all adult ages were represented. Only 90 participants (12.6%, 95% CI 10.3%-15.3%) passed the visual mask fit test. About three-quarters performed strap placement incorrectly, 61% left a “visible gap between the mask and skin,” and about 60% didn’t tighten the nose-clip.

    *A 2011 randomized Australian clinical trial of standard medical/surgical masks

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...-su9_me9_vY6a8KVR4HZ17J2A_80f_fXUABRQdhQlc8Wo

    Medical masks offered no protection at all from influenza.

    Conclusions from Organizations

    The World Health Organization (WHO):

    https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/331693/WHO-2019-nCov-IPC_Masks-2020.3-eng.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

    “Advice to decision makers on the use of masks for healthy people in community settings

    As described above, the wide use of masks by healthy people in the community setting is not supported by current evidence and carries uncertainties and critical risks
    .”

    “Medical masks should be reserved for health care workers. The use of medical masks in the community may create a false sense of security, with neglect of other essential measures, such as hand hygiene practices and physical distancing, and may lead to touching the face under the masks and under the eyes, result in unnecessary costs, and take masks away from those in health care who need them most, especially when masks are in short supply.”

    “Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.”

    WHO acknowledges that most people do not use masks properly.

    Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the Center for the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases:

    https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0131-2019-novel-coronavirus.html

    “We don’t routinely recommend the use of face masks by the public to prevent respiratory illness,” said on January 31. “And we certainly are not recommending that at this time for this new virus.”


    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/infectioncontrol/maskguidance.htm

    In March 5, 2019 regarding the flu: “Masks are not usually recommended in non-healthcare settings; however, this guidance provides other strategies for limiting the spread of influenza viruses in the community:

    • cover their nose and mouth when coughing or sneezing,
    • use tissues to contain respiratory secretions and, after use, to dispose of them in the nearest waste receptacle, and
    • perform hand hygiene (e.g., handwashing with non-antimicrobial soap and water, and alcohol-based hand rub if soap and water are not available) after having contact with respiratory secretions and contaminated objects/materials.
    From the New England Journal of Medicine

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

    “We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.”

    Final Thoughts

    • Surgical masks – loose fitting. They are designed to protect the patient from the doctors’ respiratory droplets. The wearer is not protected from others airborne particles
    • People do not wear masks properly. Most people have the mask under the nose. The wearer does not have glasses on and the eyes are a portal of entry.
    • The designer masks and scarves offer minimal protection – they give a false sense of security to both the wearer and those around the wearer.
      **Not to mention they add a perverse lightheartedness to the situation.
    • If you are walking alone, no mask – avoid folks – that is common sense.
    • Remember – children under 2 should not wear masks – accidental suffocation and difficulty breathing in some
    • If wearing a mask makes people go out and get Vitamin D – go for it. In the 1918 flu pandemic people who went outside did better. Early reports are showing people with COVID-19 with low Vitamin D do worse than those with normal levels. Perhaps that is why shut-ins do so poorly. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.08.20058578v4
    If you are sick, stay home!

    Additional Resource: Healthy People Wearing Masks, Should They or Shouldn’t They? This ER nurse with over two decades of experience took a deep dive into the science to find out:

    https://jennifermargulis.net/healthy-people-wearing-masks-during-covid19/
    ======================================================
    For the record here is what Fauci himself had to say about healthy people wearing masks in late Feb/early March:


     
  2. WeR0206

    WeR0206 Well-Known Member
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    No evidence masks work even for people who are symptomatic. Shocking!

    https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/329439/WHO-WHE-IHM-GIP-2019.1-eng.pdf?ua=1







     
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  3. macdad25

    macdad25 Well-Known Member
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    Uhhhh. Yeah.
     
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  4. rumble_lion

    rumble_lion Well-Known Member
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    Fauci on why he changed positions on wearing masks.

     
  5. bourbon n blues

    bourbon n blues Well-Known Member
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    I trust that hack less than I trust the local weatherman .
     
  6. rumble_lion

    rumble_lion Well-Known Member
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    Of course you do.
     
  7. WeR0206

    WeR0206 Well-Known Member
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    So he lied in order to save the supply chain? Why not just tell the truth from the start? Notice how he didn’t reference a single study that showed masks do anything to help prevent spread. This reeks of a bullshit excuse. This guy is a clown who has lost all credibility with the public.
     
  8. rumble_lion

    rumble_lion Well-Known Member
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    So he lied in order to save the supply chain?

    Yes he did.

    Why not just tell the truth from the start?

    Because a bunch of people would have immediately run out and bought up all the masks they could find and then front line health care workers wouldn't be able to get them.

    I stinks but was probably the right thing to do. I couldn't buy toilet paper for 3 months.

    Notice how he didn’t reference a single study that showed masks do anything to help prevent spread. This reeks of a bullshit excuse. This guy is a clown who has lost all credibility with the public.


    I'm shocked you feel this way.
     
  9. interrobang

    interrobang Well-Known Member
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    Lied to save the supply chain that got shot to hell anyway? Brilliant!
     
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  10. WeR0206

    WeR0206 Well-Known Member
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    Look at my OP and subsequent posts. There are numerous studies that say at best masks have a minimal impact and they also come with risks (bacterial infection, etc.).

    The only study I’ve seen cited by the mask advocates was one where they draped mask material over an animal cage and claimed it prevented the spread. Which doesn’t really translate to real life like the studies cited in my OP.
     
  11. rumble_lion

    rumble_lion Well-Known Member
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    Wear a mask, it's not difficult. Even Trump is wearing one now.
     
  12. jferretti

    jferretti Well-Known Member
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    You had better start trusting someone other than Trump because so far the performance of this country has been abysmal.
     
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  13. WeR0206

    WeR0206 Well-Known Member
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  14. MohawkLion

    MohawkLion Well-Known Member
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    Ben Swann everyone. No thanks.


    In a manner reflecting right-wing conspiracy theory websites, Swann has reported on many conspiracy theories and false claims, several of which are aligned with narratives pushed by his former employer, the Russian state-run RT.[28][36][23] On his personal YouTube channel, Swann posted videos discussing debunked conspiracy theories about the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, including a conspiracy theory that shooter did not commit the act alone.[37][11] He also discounted the conclusion that 2012 Aurora, Colorado shooting was conducted by a lone gunman.[23][8] There is no evidence that any additional shooters were present at the shootings. The theory of multiple gunmen may have been influenced by early news reports of the events.[38][39][40] Swann also has questioned whether 7 World Trade Center collapsed the way authorities said it did on September 11, 2001.[37]

    In December 2016, one of Swann's CBS 46 Reality Check segments on the Syrian Civil War titled "If [Syrian President Bashar al] Assad is Committing Genocide in Aleppo, Why Are People Celebrating in the Streets?" went viral on Facebook.[23] Ben Collins of The Daily Beast said this "mirrors a narrative within several stories written by Kremlin state media outfit RT in the past several weeks".[36][additional citation(s) needed]

    In an appearance in 2015 RT America, Swann said that "any credible evidence does not seem to exist" that Russia shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.[23]The plane's crash was investigated by the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) and the Dutch-led joint investigation team (JIT), who concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missilelaunched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine.[41][42]

    Swann was described by David Gorski as "antivaccine-sympathetic" for reporting on "CDC whistleblower" documents from William Thompson, a doctor working for the Centers for Disease Control– documents that have not shown evidence that the CDC covered-up a connection between the MMR vaccine and autism.[43][44]

    He later dedicated a Reality Check segment to the debunked Pizzagate conspiracy theory that emerged during the 2016 United States presidential election cycle, contending that Pizzagate may have been true, and called for a police investigation of the allegations.[45][46] Misinformation regarding Pizzagate was spread through social media and websites.[47][48] The story was discredited by a wide array of organizations, including the Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia, fact-checking sites, and reputable news organizations.[49][50][51][52] After the Pizzagate segment aired, Swann was briefly suspended from WGCL-TV and he later closed some of his social media accounts,[53] but he left one Facebook account where he continued to post conspiracy-related and anti-government memes.[54]
     
  15. WeR0206

    WeR0206 Well-Known Member
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    Wikipedia ad hominems. No thanks. Swan gets a lot of flak bc he reports on stories the deep state would rather see go away. All Ben did in this video was summarize a variety of scientific studies. Which study that he cited do you take issue with? Stop attacking the messenger.

    Btw Thompson’s whistleblowing on the CDC was legit. His docs absolutely showed a coverup.

    https://www.immunizationcoalitions.org/content/uploads/2017/01/Timeline-for-CDC-Whistleblower.pdf
     
  16. rumble_lion

    rumble_lion Well-Known Member
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    This guy is not even talking about wearing masks to protect others from getting infected from the mask wearers. He is saying the N95 masks worn by front line medical workers don't work. That's a complete joke. Why don't you spend some time in a covid ward without a mask see if you get infected?

    Wear a mask, it's just common sense.

     
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  17. WeR0206

    WeR0206 Well-Known Member
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    FFS, n95 masks have a purpose but they aren’t effective at stopping tiny viruses. He’s not the one making the claim. He’s citing scientific studies. The first part of the video he cites studies that found N95 were no better than surgical masks. In The next part he went over studies that found due to moisture retention, less oxygen, rebreathing virus particles, people touching their face to play with the mask, etc. masks do more harm than good.

    Name one study/piece of evidence that shows masks stop virus transmission. If you find it let the WHO know bc their 2019 study says there’s no evidence masks stop transmission.

    If masks stop transmission how did it even spread out of china? Why are states who have mandated masks in all stores for months like CA seeing spikes? These masks are making our immune systems weaker and cause people to reinhale virus particles.

     
    17 WeR0206, Jul 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  18. pioneerlion83

    pioneerlion83 Well-Known Member
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    But what about the ZINC???!!!!! If I line my mask with ZINC it will block and colllect 300% of sub-atomic particles!!!!

    Here is my study: blah blah blah-blah blah ....

    See!!!??
     
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  19. WeR0206

    WeR0206 Well-Known Member
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    Well my op was packed with links to actual studies and your post was packed with empty strawmen. Thanks for the bump!
     
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  20. Ephrata Lion

    Ephrata Lion Well-Known Member
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    Healthy people shouldn't be wearing masks.......

     
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  21. rumble_lion

    rumble_lion Well-Known Member
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    But what about the ZINC???!!!!! If I line my mask with ZINC it will block and colllect 300% of sub-atomic particles!!!!

    That only works if you also include a hydroxychloroquine enema.
     
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  22. BoulderFish

    BoulderFish Well-Known Member
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    Oh jesus H.

    Little tiny single viruses are not the way the virus spreads/transmits.

    The virus spreads and transmits via the droplets in sneezes, coughs, and "spittle" emitted when talking. The more we can contain those droplets, the slower and more narrow will be the spread. Masks aren't perfect at containing said droplets, but they're pretty damn good.

    My issue with masks are the simple minded people that think they should be worn EVERYWHERE. Masks provide a lot of value when inside in public and/or a location where there are a lot of things that people may touch (i.e. grocery store). And yes, WeR, I'm aware of the CDCs "surfaces not the primary means of transmission" stance.

    On hiking trails - as is a hot button item here in Boulder - close to zero value.

    Those who try to make an argument against masks everywhere expose themselves as just as science-ignorant as those who try to make an argument for masks everywhere.
     
  23. roswelllion

    roswelllion Well-Known Member
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    So he admitted he lied to us early on about masks and you are okay with that?
     
  24. roswelllion

    roswelllion Well-Known Member
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    So I read through the thread and you are okay that he lied to us. It is clear to me part of the reason why there is so much division is the constant mixed messages whether they were well intended or not. No need to wear on, oops you must wear one. the same person who said to me early on they probably just wanted to save masks for health care workers also told me the "15 days to flatten the curve" was also probably a known lie but they probably thought we could only accept 15 days at a time. Unfortunately when everything starts on a lie it kills the credibility. You have heard of the child's tale the Boy who cried wolf.?
     
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  25. WeR0206

    WeR0206 Well-Known Member
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    I’m aware that it transmits via droplets but the droplets are microscopic they aren’t the large spittle. There’s zero proof or evidence masks do anything to prevent the transmission of aerosolized viruses. Go ahead and post a link to a study proving they do. If you find one better let the WHO know bc they said in their 2019 report masks could theoretically help but there’s no proof they stop transmission from asymptomatic or symptomatic people:



    When fauci said masks don’t really help and are mainly a symbolic gesture was he wrong then or is he wrong now when saying we all need to wear them including healthy people? Why don’t they recommend everyone wear masks each flu season? We lose 30-80k per flu season. Did the unintended consequences of healthy people wearing masks (touching face more thus infecting themselves, etc.) suddenly go away over night?

    Masks for healthy people do more harm than good.

     
    25 WeR0206, Jul 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
  26. rumble_lion

    rumble_lion Well-Known Member
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    He lied to protect the supply of masks for front line medical workers? Yeah, I'm good with that. We certainly can't afford for those people to all get sick at once.
     
  27. BoulderFish

    BoulderFish Well-Known Member
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    There is no proof - even though many studies have tried - that infectable virus transmits via aerosol. So it doesn't matter if the mask can't stop aerosolized droplets. Further, even if it were a threat/concern, the mask still provides resistance to the aerosolized droplets, so they don't travel as far.

    They do stop the true droplets - the ones containing enough quantity of infectable virus to infect someone.

    We don't need a study to know that. Use your head.
     
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  28. WeR0206

    WeR0206 Well-Known Member
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    Wow talk about moving the goalposts. Now you’re trying to claim it’s not air borne? Aerosolized is the main vector. It’s in both spittle/large droplets and in the air. The large droplets aren’t as much of a factor bc they drop quickly to the floor and don’t linger in the air.

    The WHO study I linked you to didn’t care about it being airborne or not. It simply said there’s no evidence masks prevent transmission which strongly suggests it’s bc it’s airborne and it’d be like trying to use a chain link fence to stop a mosquito.

    How convenient for your position you don’t need to provide any proof.

    Here’s a study for ya:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293495/

    “There have been numerous disagreements on the average particle size of droplets and aerosols (Shiu et al., 2019). The World Health Organization (WHO) and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) postulate that the particles of more than 5 μm as droplets, and those less than 5 μm as aerosols or droplet nuclei (Siegel et al., 2007; WHO, 2014). Conversely, there have been some other postulations, indicating that aerodynamic diameter of 20 μm or 10 μm or less should be reckoned to be aerosols, based on their ability to linger in the air for a prolonged period, and the reachability to the respirable fraction of the lung (alveolar region) (Gralton et al., 2011; Nicas et al., 2005; Tellier, 2009). Small aerosols are more susceptible to be inhaled deep into the lung, which causes infection in the alveolar tissues of the lower respiratory tract, while large droplets are trapped in the upper airways (Thomas, 2013). For easy apprehension, aerosols can be defined as suspensions of solid or liquid particles in the air, which can be generated by either natural or anthropogenic phenomena (Judson and Munster, 2019; Tellier, 2009)...”
     
  29. Osprey Lion

    Osprey Lion Well-Known Member
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    If you spent as much time and effort on something productive as you do trying to convince people masks don't work, you might accomplish something worthwhile for the first time in your life.
     
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  30. AWS1022

    AWS1022 Well-Known Member
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    But when Trump does the same thing, it’s a huge problem and he caused the whole pandemic....got it.
     
  31. 83wuzme

    83wuzme Well-Known Member
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    So, are you willing to walk into a COVID isolation unit without a mask to prove the assertion that masks are ineffective ?
    How about the next time you have surgery ? Will you tell the OR staff to not wear masks just to prove a point that they are unnecessary ?
    Yeah, I don’t think so.

    One big problem with mask use is how people wear them. For instance, in church today I saw most people had masks. Some of them were being worn, some of them were being carried. I saw under the nose, under the chin and a new one - - over the nose but not covering the mouth. People were pulling them away from their faces to talk and sing. So it doesn’t really matter if people have them if they can’t or won’t use them properly.
     
  32. Ian

    Ian Well-Known Member
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    Hack? He is a quack! He has become the single most important voice for the DNC.... incredible what his early guidance led to “nothing to worry about”, “We just need to flatten the curve as to not overwhelm the medical facilities”, “masks aren’t necessary”, now “NYC did it right”. And he is an expert? Minister of COVID Propaganda. I turn it off whenever his mug shows up.
     
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  33. crazyivan77

    crazyivan77 Well-Known Member
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    Depending on the thread count, cloth masks have an “aperture“ that is 500-1000x larger than the virus. Bandanas are basically useless, maybe would catch a small percentage of sneezed droplets, but the cloth mask also may maintain a hospitable environment for moisture and viral longevity, not to mention touching your face countless times more than without a mask whatsoever. Basically, IMO, surgical masks are semi-effective for both protection of others and self and n95s offer optimal, but not perfect, protection. Save the bandanas for Antifa. Hand washing is as important, if not more-so, means of infection control.

    Policing masks basically give politicians an excuse why they have solved the problem yet- it’s the noncompliant people refusing masks that are the problem!....not just the natural course of a viral outbreak that is going to run its course regardless of your face diaper fashion.
     
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  34. rumble_lion

    rumble_lion Well-Known Member
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    not just the natural course of a viral outbreak that is going to run its course regardless of your face diaper fashion.

    Why is a country like Japan not seeing the "natural course of viral outbreak" we are seeing in the US? I think most of them wear masks, hmmmm.
     
  35. crazyivan77

    crazyivan77 Well-Known Member
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    Japan is spiking again now, hence masks are not the end-all panacea of this crisis. They will have less mortality because they are not a fat country (3.9% are obese), whereas the US is incredibly obese (40% obese). Japan used cluster control and detailed contact tracing, as opposed to strict lockdowns, at least thus far. They may need to re-evaluate if this recent surge continues. They also have done a lot less testing.



    Japan: 5k tests/1M pop
    S. Korea: 29k tests/1M
    USA: 141k tests/1M

    [​IMG]
     
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  36. BoulderFish

    BoulderFish Well-Known Member
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    For the most part, we're on the same page here, Ivan.
     
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  37. BoulderFish

    BoulderFish Well-Known Member
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    Hmmmm.... Not sure I would be pointing to Japan right now as your hard evidence for masks.
     
  38. rumble_lion

    rumble_lion Well-Known Member
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  39. WeR0206

    WeR0206 Well-Known Member
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    If I was getting surgery of course I’d want them wearing masks. Surgery is done in a sterile environment and the mask stops spittle, snot, etc. from going into the open wound. This is completely different than stopping an airborne virus.

    If it was in a room full of covid people the mask wouldn’t do shit if they had all been coughing into the air. Id need full on sealed face protection.

    You bring up a good point though. People don’t wear them correctly and the masks cause them to touch their face more which probably causes the virus to spread. It causes them to re-breath bacteria and viral particles expelled by your body, they retain moisture which gives a good environment for bacteria to grow, etc... I’d say social distancing and hand washing does way more than face diapers.
     
  40. rumble_lion

    rumble_lion Well-Known Member
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    Japan is spiking again now, hence masks are not the end-all panacea of this crisis.

    I never said it was. But the countries that do tend to wear masks appear to have control of the virus spread.

    They will have less mortality because they are not a fat country (3.9% are obese), whereas the US is incredibly obese (40% obese).

    That is one big reasons I could never understand the "let everyone get it so we can get to herd immunity" argument. We must have one of sickest overall populations in the world. You would think letting the virus infect people in this country would lead to a ton of deaths. Oh wait minute, that is exactly what we are seeing right now.

    Japan used cluster control and detailed contact tracing, as opposed to strict lockdowns, at least thus far.

    Plus you can see that most of population wears masks. They are doing many things right that we are not.

    They may need to re-evaluate if this recent surge continues. They also have done a lot less testing.


    They should be at a hug disadvantage. Lots of people squeezed into a smaller geogr
     

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