Many empty seats yesterday

[ThePennsyOracle]

I won't bore you with the details - but the data and the ramifications of millennials shoving the boomers out of the way was a jaw-dropper for me, particularly as to how this relates to our business. Really interesting stuff about how /where people shop and how large grocery chains and mass-merchants should be crapping their pants - particularly in the major categories where my company plays

No worries--I still get to see some of the stuff.

One example: On my company's website 2 years ago, mobile views were less than 10 percent of total. Now, it's just shy of 40% and growing with each passing month. Customer inquiries via phone are way, way down. USPS correspondence is virtually zero. It's all about web chat and email.

I'm sure there are more jaw-dropping stuff out there. Corporate America is going to go through a seismic shift. Big, household name brands across many sectors today who don't adapt will cease to exist within 10-15 years.

Weis, Giant, Shop Rite, etc. should be very worried. Amazon and web-based outlets are the future, along with small stores like Trader Joe's.

 

[EPC FAN]

Filling seats is not only a PSU problem. The majority of pro and collegiate stafiums are having a problem.

The problem is the Millennials have no disposable income to buy season tix and parking etc. Their $ is going to phone,cable,online subscription like Spotify, and high rent. They bought a 60" led tv on thier high interest credit card and are just as happy to pick a $25 meal at Panera and watch the game while playing Candy Crush.

Not to mention outrageous student loans.

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

This thread is really interesting. Massimo, I turned 50 this year, so I guess I'm out of most businesses' target demographic. While I still go to all the Pitt home games (don't kill me here, I'm just making a point), and really enjoy it, baseball is my favorite. I've noticed that over the past few years, my attendance at PNC Park has decreased. You'll never catch me at a Steelers' game (even though I'm a fan). Technology has made it an easy decision for me to stay home and watch in absolute comfort. I always have my Twitter feed up when watching games, so I can interact with others who are watching the same game. I'm a DraftKings player, so I can follow along with the other games to keep up to date with my team. I'm way more apt to choose TV over being there live. 10 years ago, I'd choose live 10 times out of 10.
I'm also beginning to wonder if live attendance is or will start to become less important in the grand scheme of income for schools. For Penn State, Beaver Stadium could be rendered, for a large part, useless. For Pitt, Heinz Field is already too big. But, to the schools, does it really matter? When you figure in maintenance, staffing, insurance, etc., is it just as profitable to play in a 45,000 seat venue? Demand for those 45,000 seats would be up, therefore ticket prices would be up, making up for some lost ticket revenue. I don't know how many "diehards" that PSU has. For Pitt, there's probably 30,000-35,000 diehard fans who are going to come no matter what. In college football, unlike baseball, I don't think there's all that much walkup sale. People aren't deciding the day of the game whether to make the drive to buy a ticket at the gate.

 

[tgar]

Baseball fans are getting older, MLB is very worried with the average age north of 53.

Despite many offers and deals, PSU can't get a balance or improve on fans giving up seats versus those young recent graduates buying season tickets. We have lots of young people at our tailgates and I know a lot of recent grads from various universities ( I have a 21 and 25 year old, both grads, and one a masters, none from PSU ) and they all espouse the benefits of StubHub etc. they can get tickets to what they want, when they want. They are not interested in seeing Kent State at noon on a 90 degree day.

They all complain as do I about the utter lack of WIFI in the stadium. They also want more scores and in game / other game highlights on the video boards.

Average attendance will continue to decline ( even though they offer recent grads 1/2 price tickets and commit to 10,000 seats for military then ask us to pick up the tab ) it's just a fact. Add in STEP, flat screens, other mentioned concerns and you have what you have.

BTW, the number of visiting fans coming to games in Happy Valley also seems to be down.

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

Tgar, your last sentence is very telling. I think the hotels in and around State College are absolutely robbing out-of-towners on game weekends. And with a two night minimum at that. That's absolutely insane. Add in the jacked up RV fees, and that probably accounts for the decline. I have friends whose kids are students at Penn State, and although they would love to, they won't go up for game weekends, simply because they can't afford it.

 

[bison13]

Marty I agree with you 100%. For the past two years I have given serious thought to buying a place in State College so I could go to games and spend the night there rather than pay hotel fees or wait for crazy traffic coming back east. The hotels and their two night stay stuff is insane. I go to 2-3 games a year but cant do them all so I have to pick games I know I can drive from Baltimore and then back to Harrisburg for the night. I have 3 coworkers who are in the same boat, young kids and travelling 400 miles round trip in a day is too tough.

 

[bmw199]

Tgar, your last sentence is very telling. I think the hotels in and around State College are absolutely robbing out-of-towners on game weekends. And with a two night minimum at that. That's absolutely insane. Add in the jacked up RV fees, and that probably accounts for the decline. I have friends whose kids are students at Penn State, and although they would love to, they won't go up for game weekends, simply because they can't afford it.

Airbnb

 

[tgar]

Airbnb

I know some folks who are comfortable with those arrangements and others that won't even consider using such a service / arrangement.

I have never looked at what residences are available for a game weekend, are there a lot of listings?

 

[psualum10]

Student section seating was pretty simple yesterday

-Noon game
-4-3 opponent who isn't good
-Halloween weekend where everyone is out Friday night
-Tickets distributed very oddly because of the lack of a heavy early turnout. I work in SC. For example they were filling it in top to bottom ... every other section. SA empty. SB filled. SC empty. SD filled. And so on and so on. Have no clue why they do that.

Student section was about 90% full by mid 2nd quarter ... it just sucks since it takes that long to fill especially for noon games. Although for some reason people complain about how it looks at kickoff but not later in the game when full go figure. Also before I get ripped on by the posts of ... well they should be there at kickoff ... student section also stays later than most of GA. It was still basically 70% full at the end of the game while the rest of the stadium emptied out during a blowout win.

 

[auxgym]

I hear the Beav has structural issues on top of being out dated in many ways........I don't think there is any doubt there will be a new 80,000 seat stadium with seat backs for every seat.

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

Who's gonna pay for that?

 

[auxgym]

Whether Beaver Stadium is renovated or a new stadium is built there will be a price tag. Most business people are not going to put whipped cream on an old venue for eternity.

 

[BBrown]

Marty I agree with you 100%. For the past two years I have given serious thought to buying a place in State College so I could go to games and spend the night there rather than pay hotel fees or wait for crazy traffic coming back east. The hotels and their two night stay stuff is insane. I go to 2-3 games a year but cant do them all so I have to pick games I know I can drive from Baltimore and then back to Harrisburg for the night. I have 3 coworkers who are in the same boat, young kids and travelling 400 miles round trip in a day is too tough.

try VRBO here's the link.
I use this when I go on vacation and have had great success with it.
Looking at this link some of the prices are still on the "high" side but I see a few that seem
reasonable.

http://www.vrbo.com/vacation-rentals/usa/pennsylvania/allegheny-area/state-college

 

[BBrown]

I know some folks who are comfortable with those arrangements and others that won't even consider using such a service / arrangement.

I have never looked at what residences are available for a game weekend, are there a lot of listings?

here's a link I posted in before.
I'm not sure what the hotels in State College go for but I've heard its outrageous.
There are a few in here that list for a decent rate...

http://www.vrbo.com/vacation-rentals/usa/pennsylvania/allegheny-area/state-college

 

[psuro]

That's about 5-8k too tall...

Someone mentioned that student season-tix have been offered to branch-campus students over the past few years- that would impact actual attendance.... Though back in the mid80s I was one of the many students waking up at 11:30am for a noon KO... Recall one time where i wore a bathrobe into the stadium

I am sure that was the best you looked all season.

 

[psuro]

I would be happy if they simply had better control of the piped in music vs. the video vs. the Blue Band.

It seems that at times, there was all three going on at the same time. Is that Millenials thing? To be overwhelmed with visual and auditory stimulus?

Oh, and by the way - the "Thriller" skit by the Lion and Lion Dance Team seemed off - almost like the Lion did not know the routine. I would be OK with retiring the Thriller skit.

 

[Kiber]

Said this before and I stand by tis. I believe that the long term forecast for a 107,000 seat stadium in Centre County was just way too ambitious. Look at many of the posters comments, and there are true blue loyal fans, that would love to see every single PSU home game, but many live >300 miles from Beaver Stadium and some games just are not logistically feasible.

Look at the other venues that can consistently sell out +/- 100,000 seat venues, and many are within a simple 1 hour drive of a major metropolitan area. Michigan is within 1 hour of Detroit. Columbus, Ohio. Athens and UGA are an easy commute from Atlanta. LSU is an easy drive from New Orleans and Baton Rouge is much larger than State College. Alabama is an easy drive from Birmingham. .... But State College is a very difficult 3+ hour drive from any major area such as Philly, Pittsburgh, DC....

Fact is that as cable TV, Satellite TV and TV technology gets better, the decision to stay home vs. a difficult 3+ hour drive becomes easier and easier and easier.

I believe a 90,000-95,000 seat stadium is much more realistic for State College. The problem is that going backwards is a bad image, and it becomes a pride and ego type decision.

 

[uhlerlion]

The company I work for is among the top3 consumer packaged goods juggernauts - some look at us as the best in the world at what we do ... Had a series of conferences at HQ last week where one of my colleagues gave a tremendous 45min recap of how our business/customers/consumers have changed - as we continue to migrate from a boomer-oriented marketplace (us "old-timers") to a landscape driven by Millennials... The change in the past ten years is STUNNING, and like it or not - these stinkin' Milennials are now driving the bus... Suddenly all of the goofy decisions and changes we've made as a company, and all of the new products and innovation (much of which I roll my eyes at) makes sense... And, I was immediately proud of my company and its senior- leadership (whom I have been critical of on many occasions) for identifying these trends,knowing it, owning it and modeling behaviors and the business accordingly. Now it's clear that, as a company, we are poised to kick serious ass all over the world. Then i thought about all of the game-day experience changes the pinheads in the PSU athletic dept made (piped-in music, hokey social-media call-outs, mega video boards, force-fed/non-organic gameday "traditions" etc etc etc) and suddenly it occurred to me that they, too, get it.

When demlion posts about looking around your tailgate and taking a moment to carefully note the people and how they look different now, the changes around you - he's not all loopy on bath salts. The Athletic Dept appears to have done that homework quite some time ago. Among these effects is that Millennials just won't show up for gameday as fans like me and my fellow alums would... Again - acknowledging that i have evolved into a "geddoffamylawn" late-boomer, any chance i thought there was to get rid of the piped in music et al is nil. That said - I'm still stubborn enough to think the answer in attendence woes lies in On-field success, affordability, OOC attractiveness (season ticket holders especially), pain-in-the-assiness of gameday traffic/ticketing/policies/ingress... Alas , the athletic dept has its work cut out for it in a world where us old fogies (i am less than 50) reduce the # of games we are prepared to attend...

Well that all maybe true, but because something is new(aka millennial) doesn't mean its effective or the right choice. So "getting it" isn't always a recipe for success Am I part of that new old fogey-ness?? I really don't think so because last time I checked the entertainment was the football game. It seems now, that its slowly becoming secondary. I'm perfectly ok with actually talking to my son about the last play during a break in the action without having to yell it while we are inundated with our national champion dance team, dunk contests, and now we have a field goal contest to boot (pun intended). At what point does having to be entertained for the full 3 hours become stale, passé and downright annoying. If PSU really wants to be unique, don't do what everyone else does then you have a product worth selling.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Well that all maybe true, but because something is new(aka millennial) doesn't mean its effective or the right choice. So "getting it" isn't always a recipe for success Am I part of that new old fogey-ness??

Yes, you are.

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

Well that all maybe true, but because something is new(aka millennial) doesn't mean its effective or the right choice. So "getting it" isn't always a recipe for success Am I part of that new old fogey-ness?? I really don't think so because last time I checked the entertainment was the football game. It seems now, that its slowly becoming secondary. I'm perfectly ok with actually talking to my son about the last play during a break in the action without having to yell it while we are inundated with our national champion dance team, dunk contests, and now we have a field goal contest to boot (pun intended). At what point does having to be entertained for the full 3 hours become stale, passé and downright annoying. If PSU really wants to be unique, don't do what everyone else does then you have a product worth selling.

It's the MTV generation. Attention spans are so much shorter now than 30 years ago. People are not satisfied with just the game. That's why we have baseball stadiums with views of the city, it's more "the experience". When the Pirates were horrible, coming to the game for "a nice night out" or whatever giveaway they were having was the push. You can't have 5 seconds of dead air anymore, or people will lose interest. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's how it is. It used to be about the game, back in a time where there was no instant gratification. But that time is long gone.

 

[tgar]

here's a link I posted in before.
I'm not sure what the hotels in State College go for but I've heard its outrageous.
There are a few in here that list for a decent rate...

http://www.vrbo.com/vacation-rentals/usa/pennsylvania/allegheny-area/state-college

Thanks BBrown, much appreciated.

 

[BBrown]

I would be happy if they simply had better control of the piped in music vs. the video vs. the Blue Band.

It seems that at times, there was all three going on at the same time. Is that Millenials thing? To be overwhelmed with visual and auditory stimulus?

Oh, and by the way - the "Thriller" skit by the Lion and Lion Dance Team seemed off - almost like the Lion did not know the routine. I would be OK with retiring the Thriller skit.

Yea that "Thriller" skit was a fail.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

It's the MTV generation. Attention spans are so much shorter now than 30 years ago. People are not satisfied with just the game. That's why we have baseball stadiums with views of the city, it's more "the experience". When the Pirates were horrible, coming to the game for "a nice night out" or whatever giveaway they were having was the push. You can't have 5 seconds of dead air anymore, or people will lose interest. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's how it is. It used to be about the game, back in a time where there was no instant gratification. But that time is long gone.

^^^This

Look around you at the Millenials attending the next big event you attend (concert, game, etc).

If they're not tweeting or checking Facebook/Instagram, they're snapping photos and seeing the action through their smartphone's camera.

 

[BBrown]

Baseball fans are getting older, MLB is very worried with the average age north of 53.

Despite many offers and deals, PSU can't get a balance or improve on fans giving up seats versus those young recent graduates buying season tickets. We have lots of young people at our tailgates and I know a lot of recent grads from various universities ( I have a 21 and 25 year old, both grads, and one a masters, none from PSU ) and they all espouse the benefits of StubHub etc. they can get tickets to what they want, when they want. They are not interested in seeing Kent State at noon on a 90 degree day.

They all complain as do I about the utter lack of WIFI in the stadium. They also want more scores and in game / other game highlights on the video boards.

Average attendance will continue to decline ( even though they offer recent grads 1/2 price tickets and commit to 10,000 seats for military then ask us to pick up the tab ) it's just a fact. Add in STEP, flat screens, other mentioned concerns and you have what you have.

BTW, the number of visiting fans coming to games in Happy Valley also seems to be down.

Yea I was surprised at both the opposing fan turnout for Indy and Il

^^^This

Look around you at the Millenials attending the next big event you attend (concert, game, etc).

If they're not tweeting or checking Facebook/Instagram, they're snapping photos and seeing the action through their smartphone's camera.

LOL. Exactly. There was a young couple that sat in front of me and the boyfriend/husband spent the whole first quarter texting. Then they left at halftime...Whats the point?

 

[massimoManca II]

Well that all maybe true, but because something is new(aka millennial) doesn't mean its effective or the right choice. So "getting it" isn't always a recipe for success Am I part of that new old fogey-ness?? I really don't think so because last time I checked the entertainment was the football game. It seems now, that its slowly becoming secondary. I'm perfectly ok with actually talking to my son about the last play during a break in the action without having to yell it while we are inundated with our national champion dance team, dunk contests, and now we have a field goal contest to boot (pun intended). At what point does having to be entertained for the full 3 hours become stale, passé and downright annoying. If PSU really wants to be unique, don't do what everyone else does then you have a product worth selling.

but "not getting it" is always a recipe for disaster - just ask Kodak, Blackberry, Xerox...

we can bitch all we want and it wouldn't change the raw truth that if the athl dept. was to subscribe to our blue-and-lily-white vision (ie: purely the show = "the Team, the GAME, the STUDENT SECTION, the BLUE BAND" ) Beaver Stadium fall Saturdays would look much worse (from an attendance standpoint) than the 15K empty seats right now. Change (baby boomers/baby boomer "spendencies" being displaced by those of millennials) has already happened and you either adopt/adapt/be adept or become another Kodak... it's a remarkable shift certainly never considered in the 90s when contemplating the south EZ expansion.... they understood the club-seating opportunity (with the benefit of hindsight it appears it was poorly executed) but never could foresee the impact on millennial-shift now that they are the largest consumer-demo and are entering their peak earning/consumption years....

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

but "not getting it" is always a recipe for disaster - just ask Kodak, Blackberry, Xerox...

we can bitch all we want and it wouldn't change the raw truth that if the athl dept. was to subscribe to our blue-and-lily-white vision (ie: purely the show = "the Team, the GAME, the STUDENT SECTION, the BLUE BAND" ) Beaver Stadium fall Saturdays would look much worse (from an attendance standpoint) than the 15K empty seats right now. Change (baby boomers/baby boomer "spendencies" being displaced by those of millennials) has already happened and you either adopt/adapt/be adept or become another Kodak... it's a remarkable shift certainly never considered in the 90s when contemplating the south EZ expansion.... they understood the club-seating opportunity (with the benefit of hindsight it appears it was poorly executed) but never could foresee the impact on millennial-shift now that they are the largest consumer-demo and are entering their peak earning/consumption years....

With that said.....because of student loans, Millenials won't have the spending power for quite some time.

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

The students at Pitt games is a hot topic for discussion over on Panther-Lair. Up until this season, it was customary for students to bolt after they sang "Sweet Caroline" at the end of the 3rd quarter. The students were good about coming to the game in decent numbers. But, right after that song ended, they were gone. Now, the situation at Heinz is a bit different than at Beaver Stadium, in that the students have to be bused down to the stadium from campus. They would leave after the 3rd quarter to start queuing up in the bus lines to get back to campus. The diehard fans would lose their minds when this happened. "That's horrible. Where's the loyalty? They're not true fans.". Stuff like that. Well, truth be told, they're probably not football fans. It's more of an event. A chance to be seen. Hang with friends. Party before the game. Take selfies all day. In Pitt's case, students start arriving at Heinz Field up to 2 hours prior to kickoff to get the best seats. By the time the 3rd quarter ends, a lot of them have been there for over 4 hours. They've lost interest. Another contributing factor is that at Pitt, student tickets are something like $25-$30 for the season. So, the kids have no problem leaving before the game, because there's no financial commitment or obligation for them to feel as though they should stay.

It's a big problem going forward for Pitt, as I'm sure it is for a lot of schools. How do you get today's students to come back as alumni? More importantly, how do you get them to care enough to want to donate?

Thoughts?

 

[uhlerlion]

Yes, you are.

yeah thanks

but "not getting it" is always a recipe for disaster - just ask Kodak, Blackberry, Xerox...

we can bitch all we want and it wouldn't change the raw truth that if the athl dept. was to subscribe to our blue-and-lily-white vision (ie: purely the show = "the Team, the GAME, the STUDENT SECTION, the BLUE BAND" ) Beaver Stadium fall Saturdays would look much worse (from an attendance standpoint) than the 15K empty seats right now. Change (baby boomers/baby boomer "spendencies" being displaced by those of millennials) has already happened and you either adopt/adapt/be adept or become another Kodak... it's a remarkable shift certainly never considered in the 90s when contemplating the south EZ expansion.... they understood the club-seating opportunity (with the benefit of hindsight it appears it was poorly executed) but never could foresee the impact on millennial-shift now that they are the largest consumer-demo and are entering their peak earning/consumption years....

I agree that not getting it all is a death sentence.., but getting it and done wrong is just as big a fail....How dopey is it when it looks or sounds half assed??? I don't know about you but when done wrong---aka badly mixed music or incorrect timing on when to end the lion dance show--its just flat out embarrassing to the university or should be. as an alum I know I am

after all the entertainment should have a standard as well if your going to do it--instead of throwing it against the wall and hope it sticks

 

[Howie'81]

The upper decks were sparse, and the student section never filled in on the west stands. It's one thing to blame STEP, but where were the students?

Yes, the students tick me off sometimes. There were too many damn empty seats for a team that is beginning to grow up. Time for fans to get back to Beaver Stadium in force.

 

[Sproul]

I know some folks who are comfortable with those arrangements and others that won't even consider using such a service / arrangement.

I have never looked at what residences are available for a game weekend, are there a lot of listings?

I rent my house on rentlikeachampion.com. We sleep 12 and rent for $1400 in a 2800 sq ft house. It's booked every game every year. No reason to ever stay in a hotel when you can bring 10 friends along and lay $150 each.

 

[mcm265]

Graduated in 2005 - my wife an I have tons of student debt. I can't afford to go to more than 1 game a year. We make combined $140k a year. No Kids. We are financially strapped (seriously). Would love to buy seasons tix or buy an RV and travel up with friends. Ain't gonna happen until loans are paid off. Pretty much all of my school buddies and their wives are in the same situation.

 

[jj410]

Graduated in 2005 - my wife an I have tons of student debt. I can't afford to go to more than 1 game a year. We make combined $140k a year. No Kids. We are financially strapped (seriously). Would love to buy seasons tix or buy an RV and travel up with friends. Ain't gonna happen until loans are paid off. Pretty much all of my school buddies and their wives are in the same situation.

Of course we don't know your situation - for example, maybe you are supporting relatives - but how much do you pay on that student debt a year? If it's less than say $80K, maybe you should find a financial advisor who will tell you for starters to (1) cut up your credit cards, (2) buy only cars you can afford to pay cash for and (3) reconsider how big a house you really need.
It's a personal choice but you do not need season tix or an RV to go to a game - for most games you can buy dirt cheap from scalpers and stay cheap in Altoona or near Harrisburg or as you are young with multiple drivers, go all the way through.
Maybe none of my beeswax but just sayin.

 

[bullerock]

Been a proponent of lowered seating capacity for awhile now. The combination of STEP, overall cost and the scandal has hurt more than PSU would like to admit.

Of course, the crappy home slate this year didn't help. That should take care of itself over the next few seasons. Below are the name opponents for the home slate 16-18. Quality of home slate should not be an issue for those seasons.

2016
Minnesota
Maryland
Ohio State
Iowa
Michigan State

2017
Pitt
Michigan
Nebraska

2018
Ohio State
Michigan State
Iowa
Wisconsin
Maryland

Whereas the 2015 home slate really only had one quality opponent in Michigan, each of the next three seasons has at least 3. That will help attendance, atmosphere, etc.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

yeah thanks



I agree that not getting it all is a death sentence.., but getting it and done wrong is just as big a fail....How dopey is it when it looks or sounds half assed??? I don't know about you but when done wrong---aka badly mixed music or incorrect timing on when to end the lion dance show--its just flat out embarrassing to the university or should be. as an alum I know I am

after all the entertainment should have a standard as well if your going to do it--instead of throwing it against the wall and hope it sticks

What are companies supposed to do? Sit on their hands and try to figure out "what to do" so they don't "do it wrong?"

Or, are they really supposed to try things and see if they work?

There's no quicker way to Xerox-land than the former. It sounds "dopey" and sounds "half-assed" to you....but the music and social media promos are something Millenials like.

Face it--the future isn't about your generation. There's a transition going on right now and it's not going to stop.

 

[LuvDaLions]

What good Is having 105K capacity if you cannot fill it up consistently? Put in more chairback seating and take capacity down to 90-95K when you renovate or build a new stadium. The argument for having over 100K stadium does not hold water any more.

I like the idea of chair back seating, however, I don't really believe that there is enough space to do it. I know in my section, there is a couple of people who rent the seat cushions with backs and another directly in front of them, and they dont have room for their legs, they have to sit sideways. Add in another inch or so for plastic thickness on chairbacks and I don't believe chairbacks are an option.

 

[uhlerlion]

What are companies supposed to do? Sit on their hands and try to figure out "what to do" so they don't "do it wrong?"

Or, are they really supposed to try things and see if they work?

There's no quicker way to Xerox-land than the former. It sounds "dopey" and sounds "half-assed" to you....but the music and social media promos are something Millenials like.

Face it--the future isn't about your generation. There's a transition going on right now and it's not going to stop.

Couldn't have said it much better from the "look at me I'm on the screen" generation. Mucho impressive I'm glad the standards are being lowered by the next generation.

I'm pretty sure apple has spent thousands of hours sitting around thinking before applying in trial and error.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Couldn't have said it much better from the "look at me I'm on the screen" generation. Mucho impressive I'm glad the standards are being lowered by the next generation.

I'm pretty sure apple has spent thousands of hours sitting around thinking before applying in trial and error.

Arguing semantics is pointless--Apple is vastly different than Penn State athletics.

What you see as lower standards others see as THE standard. Because of your admittedly curmudgeonly ways, you don't see it that way.....but there is oodles of research behind the things companies/schools use for their marketing decisions.

 

[uhlerlion]

Arguing semantics is pointless--Apple is vastly different than Penn State athletics.

What you see as lower standards others see as THE standard. Because of your admittedly curmudgeonly ways, you don't see it that way.....but there is oodles of research behind the things companies/schools use for their marketing decisions.

Wait??! It was ok for you to use a Xerox example and not ok for me to use an Apple example----

Short attention span entitlement generation indeed!!

I can feel the entitlement oozing or oodleing out from the computer screen

To quote another old fogey

"Keep on rockin in the free world"

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Wait??! It was ok for you to use a Xerox example and not ok for me to use an Apple example----

Short attention span entitlement generation indeed!!

I can feel the entitlement oozing or oodleing out from the computer screen

To quote another old fogey

"Keep on rockin in the free world"

You have no idea how old I am. Xerox is a prime example of a company who stuck hard and fast to old ways. Apple is risking doing the same too, by the way.

I'm terribly sorry that my career has been spent in and around media/marketing, and that you choose to not get it.

 

[rohrmd9]

Graduated in 2005 - my wife an I have tons of student debt. I can't afford to go to more than 1 game a year. We make combined $140k a year. No Kids. We are financially strapped (seriously). Would love to buy seasons tix or buy an RV and travel up with friends. Ain't gonna happen until loans are paid off. Pretty much all of my school buddies and their wives are in the same situation.

$140k a year with no kids and you are financially strapped?! Your student loans must be huge.