Main campus fall classes and enrollment
- Thread starter Little J
- Start date
I think you’re right. I spoke with a senior last night and asked him about his classes. He gave me a number (perhaps the 250) and said his smallest classes are already scheduled online. It really isn’t fair if there isn’t a price reduction.
I agree. It isn't fair, but the scoundrels who run the place don't give a damn about fairness.
We were told only classes above 250 would be online back in June. Now things have changed totally. I cannot see how it would be fair to anyone to charge a full tuition for this less than adequate education.
Tenured professors are rethinking teaching on any days that end in Y.maybe they could do some creative scheduling...like having a class on Friday
Why not wait until you see the details before jumping to conclusions? Remember due process?
Do you know how many hand sanitizer refills Fair is missing out on with minimal face2face classes ? Not to mention masks, wipes, etc.
There was no need to wait. I jumped to no conclusion. I agreed with a post that said "It really isn't fair if if there isn't a price reduction." If means the result is uncertain. No conclusion was reached. Perhaps there will be. If not, that would not be fair.
I also said "the scoundrels that run the place don't give a damn about fairness." I did not jump to that conclusion. It is a conclusion based upon their recent history. I cannot think of a single example of fairness by this group in the past 10 years. If there was one, I apologize in advance. Perhaps this time they will give a damn.
My neighbor is in the math department. High level math. All his classes were moved to online only and he had no input in the matter. Sucks cause my internet will be slower since he'll be using more of his bandwith now.
Nicely said...The COVID-19 ASS. BEATING.
ThePennsyOracle, I have pasted below what I copied directly from a portion of the June 14th statement released by the Admin at PSU. Remainder of classes would be in person or a hybrid type of class. Now all but one of my daughter's classes are fully remote. I understand fully, why the professors would want it this way, I am just hoping that they follow the synchronous delivery system. Either way, it will not be the same as in person, which is why I feel the tuition should be lowered to some degree.
A flexible approach
Delivery of the curriculum will occur through a highly flexible mix of in-person, remote and online instruction throughout the semester, with all classes of more than 250 students delivered online and/or remotely. Most classes will be scheduled through synchronous delivery. This is based on strong evidence of greater academic success by establishing robust learning communities and environments. Campuses and academic units will determine how to deliver smaller classes, following University guidance. Faculty are expected to be flexible in their interpretation and management of class attendance so that sick students can stay home, and the University will work with immunocompromised and other at-risk students to develop appropriate accommodations. For students who are unable to return to any campus this fall, there are flexible options so that they can continue to make progress toward their degrees.
A flexible approach
Delivery of the curriculum will occur through a highly flexible mix of in-person, remote and online instruction throughout the semester, with all classes of more than 250 students delivered online and/or remotely. Most classes will be scheduled through synchronous delivery. This is based on strong evidence of greater academic success by establishing robust learning communities and environments. Campuses and academic units will determine how to deliver smaller classes, following University guidance. Faculty are expected to be flexible in their interpretation and management of class attendance so that sick students can stay home, and the University will work with immunocompromised and other at-risk students to develop appropriate accommodations. For students who are unable to return to any campus this fall, there are flexible options so that they can continue to make progress toward their degrees.
I know what the university said. Nowhere does it say “only classes over 250 people will be online.”
IYO, what was the purpose of using the number 250 mentioned in the comment below?
"with all classes of more than 250 students delivered online and/or remotely."
Because gatherings of more than 250 were “banned” by Governor Wolf, and PSU has classes with twice that number of students.
I am teaching 4 different courses this fall. I have been given the authority to choose how I will offer these courses. I would prefer teaching in person. Believe it or not... it is easier and certainly less work teaching in-class. My class sizes are approx. 130, 45, 30, and 20. I will be teaching the large class remotely as the classroom that I have been assigned will only allow a capacity of less than half of my enrollment number. In addition, the class is scheduled for a room in Osmond Lab. Quite frankly, I don’t feel comfortable teaching in that old , dank, facility. The classes of 45 and 30 will be taught by splitting the class into two groups. Half the class will attend in-class lectures one day a week and will take the other lecture during that week remotely. Again, the room size capacity has dictated that I can’t have everyone attend at the same time. At least students will get one in-class day experience every week. The small class will be handled entirely in class because I have enough seat capacity for everyone enrolled. Of course, things can change depending on circumstance changing. I can tell everyone that I don’t like having to teach this way but from what I have seen, most of my colleagues are trying to develop their courses in the best possible manners. Personally I resent those on this board that have never taught and are suggesting that a lot of the faculty are taking the easy way out. This semester shapes up to one of the most challenging that I have ever had to deal with.
I see that Professors at Georgia Tech have overwhelmingly come out against their plans to reopen. The issues of remote vs in person will be pervasive across campuses throughout the country this fall. Planning to resume is enormously complex.
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Presently, the plans at Georgia Tech do not mandate that students wear masks in classrooms. That’s part of it.
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Your reply doesn't answer my question. Go back up to Chuckrup's post, is 250 students and above a marker of sorts, with more than that meaning the class is online?
Kids living in apt. are kind of pushed into signing leases in Sept./Oct. of the prior year to get a desirable spot. Slim pickings in Nov/Dec. That is kind of crazy, but more or less the story. So the downtown student pop. is locked in already.
Was talking this weekend to a friend whose daughter works at a local university. Up until now, they had not had any layoffs or furloughs but announced last week they are putting in some substantial furloughs. Basically 3 tiers of furlough, tier one is no work at all. Tier 2 is 50% furlough, Tier 3 is one day per week on furlough. They will tell all the employees this week what tier they are in. Be surprised if you don't see a lot of furloughs in a lot of business starting to occur.
Students who signed leases are not necessarily locked in. Their leases have force majeure clauses which may allow them to escape.
May. Landlords tend to have deeper pockets to argue legal issues than the student tenants.
Kudos to you on your efforts . Having taken classes in Osmond at one time, I had to google the lab to refresh my memory. It appears I have attended classes in 4 of the top 5 worst classrooms on campus. Best of luck to you as you try and navigate these turbulent waters for your students.
https://onwardstate.com/2011/09/28/bestworst-classrooms-on-campus/
Administration has stated that every freshman should have at least one in-person class. Most freshman I know have 1 class in-person: freshman seminar (1 credit). All English 15/CAS 100/Math < 300 level are either zoom or web. I would prefer to see a kid have in-person class 1/3 of the days (MWF) than fully zoom. My JD has 4/5 classes online. Including the smaller 45-person classes.
It feels like a money grab. I was told (by the Administration) they expected about 50% to be online and 50% in-person. That is inconsistent with what kids are seeing and while things may change in the next 10 days, I don't have high expectations.
Couple that with less library space, lounges removing furniture, dining halls removing tables, where are these kids going to go? They can't sit in their dorm room all day?!?
Are they clawing back other spaces for classrooms? Can Schwab be divided into 2 spaces (downstairs/upstairs) for classes? Can a gym or two in White or Rec be used during the week for classes (since sports teams have their own dedicated gyms?) ? Eisenhower? BJC? Can smaller classrooms now unacceptable for classes be used for students to do zoom classes from or will they be locked? Can smaller classrooms be used as study space?
Expectations continue to get lower every day.
It feels like a money grab. I was told (by the Administration) they expected about 50% to be online and 50% in-person. That is inconsistent with what kids are seeing and while things may change in the next 10 days, I don't have high expectations.
Couple that with less library space, lounges removing furniture, dining halls removing tables, where are these kids going to go? They can't sit in their dorm room all day?!?
Are they clawing back other spaces for classrooms? Can Schwab be divided into 2 spaces (downstairs/upstairs) for classes? Can a gym or two in White or Rec be used during the week for classes (since sports teams have their own dedicated gyms?) ? Eisenhower? BJC? Can smaller classrooms now unacceptable for classes be used for students to do zoom classes from or will they be locked? Can smaller classrooms be used as study space?
Expectations continue to get lower every day.
It depends what you mean by lower. They’ve been planning for this for several months. They’re trying to achieve a balance of safety for the students and staff and using modifications to facilities to best provide for needed space coupled with social distancing. It’s a huge undertaking when your talking about the numbers of students, faculty, classrooms, walkways, dining halls, and staff involved. There are lots of necessary compromises. Not everything is going to work perfectly or be liked by everyone involved and a lot will still depend upon student behavior which as we know is likely to be highly variable.
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I guess I was under the assumption when Barron advertised "Back to State" and in-person classes, it didn't mean, "come to State College to take zoom and web classes in your dorm room."
Why aren't web classes taken by UP students the same tuition cost as World Campus classes? They are probably the exact same lessons.
Don't blame this on student behavior. They haven't even gotten there yet.
As long as they put all of these procedures in place for normal influenza (which actually kills young people) this all makes perfect sense. In the meantime, despite the best laid plans, there will be no football this fall, athletic depts across the country will suffer/sports cut, college towns get clobbered and universities get clobbered even more - business model doesn’t work with kids not on campus. When in reality, covid doesn’t affect college age kids, there’s not much evidence that they spread it, and if professors shop, they can also take precautions in the classroom. But if people want a riskless environment (or the lawyers require it) so be it.
There are a lot of issues to consider. I doubt that the businesses in town were a major consideration however, if this campus is not opened and only limited to remote learning for the next 6-12 months... there will virtually be very little of a town left for the students to come back to. As it is we are going to lose a lot of businesses that will not be able to do enough sales volume to survive. I doubt that it was a major part of the decision making equation... but I hope that we can open and remain as safe as possible.
so why isn't Barron coming out and saying since 80-90% of classes will be on line. That a very large part of the campus will be closed or greatly reduced access, that the $25-$50K per year tuition bill is going to be discounted by 33% due to not paying the same price for services not rendered. If they were giving discounts on tuition due to a large portion of services not being provided, the backlash would be much less.
Here is my 2 cents. Older daughter soph nursing student at altoona. Has 3 of 4 classes in person. Microbio lecture on zoom then lab in person 15 minutes after zoom lecture. Younger daughter freshmen nursing at Altoona don't have her schedule yet. Two of my older daughters friends/roommates have decided not to return "gap year". Another of her friends at main campus engineering student is doing a "gap year as well. Penn State imo is being very disingenuous with these kids. Won't be surprised that by end of Sept. ALL classes will be online. As a parent paying the "bills" I'm not a happy camper.
interesting question. gap year appears to be very popular. what happens next year (assuming that covid finally goes away and things get back to normal) when all the gap year kids want back in (and there are a lot of current high school seniors that just graduated that are delaying starting college) and the you have an incoming class that has a ton of gap year kids coming back. Is that going to make admissions a lot harder?
Another way to look at it- You gut out a tough situation and graduate on time . Could have a relative reduction in graduates your senior year . Slightly increases your odds of a being accepted into a graduate program or landing a job .
