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Wrestling LIVE THREAD: Penn State vs. Michigan State 1/21

For all the talk of Caffey gassing badly, I'm not so sure there isn't a bit of playing possum or rope-a-dope going on there. Nearly every time I see him wrestle he looks gassed and is slow to come back to the circle. Yet he continues to have more than enough gas in the tank to pull out good wins. May be some strategery there.
 
Dean tried to get TDs, and had a couple good chances, but could not finish. As noted previously, Caffey is athletic and flexible, and is tough to take down without a really clean/crisp finish.

And I doubt Dean will "beat the hell out of Caffey" next time. I'll settle for a nice, controlled decision.
Max is pretty flexible himself with those rubber knees. He used them to bail himself out of trouble a couple of times against Bulsak.
 
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watching the youtube replay, the no nearfall on the starocci cradle wasn't as bad as i thought. starocci didn't have the lock he wanted and i'm not sure he ever broke 45. obviously, not a consequential sequence in that match.
 
also in the dean match, he tried to use the 5 count loophole with the standing single, but I think he relaxed for a second and caffey kicked out and caught him off guard.

ref also missed a takedown for caffey in that final scramble on the merkle. that's a takedown every time. it took dean a few seconds to get that inside leg out and shelved to the far hip, but it should have been a takedown first.
 
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watching the youtube replay, the no nearfall on the starocci cradle wasn't as bad as i thought. starocci didn't have the lock he wanted and i'm not sure he ever broke 45. obviously, not a consequential sequence in that match.
Legitimate question - do you coach?
 
watching the youtube replay, the no nearfall on the starocci cradle wasn't as bad as i thought. starocci didn't have the lock he wanted and i'm not sure he ever broke 45. obviously, not a consequential sequence in that match.

Yea, I just watched it as well (don't have B1G+) - classic situation where cradled wrestler's shoulder stuck inside cradler's shoulder. Often times you will see the top wrestler drive his head into, and under, bottom wrestler's side to avoid this situation. Carter did readjust it but when he rolled him through the second time, he loses the grip on his head.
 
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watching the youtube replay, the no nearfall on the starocci cradle wasn't as bad as i thought. starocci didn't have the lock he wanted and i'm not sure he ever broke 45. obviously, not a consequential sequence in that match.
No near fall points, okay, but why wasn't Carter given a TD until there was about 2:30 left in the period. The cradle happened 2 seconds into the period. It had no effect on the result but I'm curious about not getting a TD right away.
 
Legitimate question - do you coach?
no, i used to back when i still wrestled. would corner our jv guys whenever we weren't also wrestling and at one point was drafted as a player-coach for a tournament i was out of due to injury when we were down an assistant. always loved that way more than competing. went away to college and never got back involved.
 
No near fall points, okay, but why wasn't Carter given a TD until there was about 2:30 left in the period. The cradle happened 2 seconds into the period. It had no effect on the result but I'm curious about not getting a TD right away.
he gave it. it happened before they cut back to the mat and the scoreboard was late, but takedown was awarded and he was down looking for nearfall.
 
he gave it. it happened before they cut back to the mat and the scoreboard was late, but takedown was awarded and he was down looking for nearfall.
At about 2:28 Carter only had 8 seconds of riding time. So, he didn't get a takedown till they were over at the edge of the mat.
 
At about 2:28 Carter only had 8 seconds of riding time. So, he didn't get a takedown till they were over at the edge of the mat.
and yet, if you watch the actual video you can see that official never awards two on screen, the psu bench isn't yelling two, etc... the BTN scoreboard graphics are wrong all the time. or the scoreboard people screwed up. either way, the takedown was already awarded. you can see the official down looking for nearfall and then starting the stall count after the failed roll through.
 
The first post above refers to Max Dean. But your response apparently refers to Jacob Warner (Dean wasn't in the NCAA tournament last season).

And Warner in no way reminds me of Matt Brown.
I think he was referring to Dean and Dean’s two AA achievements in 18/19, and his finals in 19?
 
6-5? Beat the hell out of?!
Actually, Beard defeated Caffey recently (New Years Day) at the Southern Scuffle, by a 6-2 decision. A nice win, but hardly a beat-down.

At the 2021 B1G tourney, Caffey beat Beard 12-6.
 
Actually, Beard defeated Caffey recently (New Years Day) at the Southern Scuffle, by a 6-2 decision. A nice win, but hardly a beat-down.

At the 2021 B1G tourney, Caffey beat Beard 12-6.
I believe the ref missed 4NF for Michael that day. We don't even know if Michael is healthy right now. It's also clear Caffey is currently in his "hot streak" mode.
 
Have to admit, Dean has been playing with fire as of late, meeting a red hot Caffro now was bad timimg. Max needs to get back to his dominating ways lol.
 
Since I have been a poster here, I have done one set of grades, which was last week and I'll never do that again. It was just too hard to put a grade to one of our wrestlers. So instead of doing grades, I'll just do my own analysis of each weight like I have previously done.

125 - When Drew breaks his opponent down, he is a problem plain and simple. I thought maybe Suriano took his foot off the gas, but I'm starting to think Drew is just stylistically a bad matchup for just about everyone. I read earlier that his opponent has never given up bonus. That speaks volume for what Drew was able to do. He's definitely a great addition. Excellent showing.

133 - Kind of surprised RBY didn't go. Makes me think he's a little dinged up and they're trying to get him 100% for Friday. Unless it is serious, I don't think there is any chance he doesn't go Friday. With that being said, Baylor comes out, and does a great job against Foley. He battled the whole time, wrestled through positions, and seemed to give Foley some fits. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I will always appreciate effort, no matter the end score. Baylor gave everything he had against a very good opponent, and I'll always enjoy when he runs out on the mat.

141 - Chop wood, carry water. I'm still in the boat that thinks once Nick gets his riding time, he should catch and release. Nick does a pretty good job of telling me to shove it, but I'm stubborn and refuse to give up that idea. He continues to prove why he is a national champ.

149 - BB is undoubtedly a tough out for everyone. He's not gonna light up the scoreboard, that's just not his style. However, he hardly ever breaks stance, and the position awareness is top notch. He had a beautiful counter attack and that's exactly what every opponent needs to be aware of. He did a great job of rolling through the headlock against a greco guy who hit it I think twice on Storr.

157 - I thought BearClaw looked the best he has all year against Lewan. While I don't think he looked quite as good today, I still think his confidence is growing. He did a great job I think it was the first sequence of defending the takedown. That's two nationally ranked kids that he's wrestled super tough. I said during my grades I wish he got an opportunity at a slightly lower level guy but the schedule just doesn't work out. If he did have that opportunity and got a good win under his belt, I believe that would do wonders. Unfortunately, he couldn't prove he deserved to be out there until the meat of the schedule. Still not sure how this weight plays out or who will go next Friday. If I had to guess, I would say Negron. We're gonna need offense against Young, and so far, he's shown the most from his feet. We will see what happens.

165 - I would like to start by saying I thought the announcers did a pretty good job overall, except for this match. When Fish was in on Berge's leg and drove him out, there is not a ref on this earth that should call that a stall. Brady presented himself and controlled the center of the mat in my opinion for the majority of the match. Brady has always been tough to score on and that hasn't changed. With only his third match back, I think he's still getting in match shape. He's looked extremely tough and I'm interested to see how he does against Marinelli. Super pumped he's back with us, and after 3 matches, he's done a hell of a job.

174 - Watching the live feed we didn't get the chance to see the cradle that didn't produce near falls. Some on here have said the rewatched it and it was a good call. I haven't rewatched it so I believe them. Doesn't matter. Great match.

184 - Credit to Layne Malczewski, he had a hell of a weekend, and didn't make it easy on Brooks. Brooks' escape right to the takedown is exactly why he's a national champ. That killer instinct is what separates the top guys from everyone else. I think Layne has the potential to be there at some point, but right now, its Brooks' weight.

197 - I'm gonna take heat on this one. I said it against Rutgers, and Michigan, and again today. Dean has not looked like the number two ranked guy. He's a phenomenal top wrestler, and has scored a lot off of turns, but when you rely on your turns to win matches, and you don't get turns, something has to give. I don't mind him taking a loss at this point in the season, I'm not claiming he's doomed for the rest of the season. What I will say however is he needs to figure something out against other top guys. Maybe its a mental thing, which I hope it isn't because that can be super hard to overcome. My hope and prediction is this loss does nothing but help him get back on track and he shows it next Friday against another top guy in Warner. He's a national finalist for a reason.

285 - Not too much can be said with Kerk. No disrespect to Wilton, but he's just not on Kerk's level, in fact only about 4 other guys are.

Overall another great showing. Its sometimes hard to get up for a team like Michigan State after wrestling a team like Michigan Again, no disrespect to them, but they were an overwhelming under dog compared to Michigan where there was a number of swing matches. Momentum is a weird thing in this sport, and after two dominating wins, we should be riding high. Lets keep the train rolling since it is heading into the midwest... ...again.

We Are!
 
Since I have been a poster here, I have done one set of grades, which was last week and I'll never do that again. It was just too hard to put a grade to one of our wrestlers. So instead of doing grades, I'll just do my own analysis of each weight like I have previously done.

125 - When Drew breaks his opponent down, he is a problem plain and simple. I thought maybe Suriano took his foot off the gas, but I'm starting to think Drew is just stylistically a bad matchup for just about everyone. I read earlier that his opponent has never given up bonus. That speaks volume for what Drew was able to do. He's definitely a great addition. Excellent showing.

133 - Kind of surprised RBY didn't go. Makes me think he's a little dinged up and they're trying to get him 100% for Friday. Unless it is serious, I don't think there is any chance he doesn't go Friday. With that being said, Baylor comes out, and does a great job against Foley. He battled the whole time, wrestled through positions, and seemed to give Foley some fits. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I will always appreciate effort, no matter the end score. Baylor gave everything he had against a very good opponent, and I'll always enjoy when he runs out on the mat.

141 - Chop wood, carry water. I'm still in the boat that thinks once Nick gets his riding time, he should catch and release. Nick does a pretty good job of telling me to shove it, but I'm stubborn and refuse to give up that idea. He continues to prove why he is a national champ.

149 - BB is undoubtedly a tough out for everyone. He's not gonna light up the scoreboard, that's just not his style. However, he hardly ever breaks stance, and the position awareness is top notch. He had a beautiful counter attack and that's exactly what every opponent needs to be aware of. He did a great job of rolling through the headlock against a greco guy who hit it I think twice on Storr.

157 - I thought BearClaw looked the best he has all year against Lewan. While I don't think he looked quite as good today, I still think his confidence is growing. He did a great job I think it was the first sequence of defending the takedown. That's two nationally ranked kids that he's wrestled super tough. I said during my grades I wish he got an opportunity at a slightly lower level guy but the schedule just doesn't work out. If he did have that opportunity and got a good win under his belt, I believe that would do wonders. Unfortunately, he couldn't prove he deserved to be out there until the meat of the schedule. Still not sure how this weight plays out or who will go next Friday. If I had to guess, I would say Negron. We're gonna need offense against Young, and so far, he's shown the most from his feet. We will see what happens.

165 - I would like to start by saying I thought the announcers did a pretty good job overall, except for this match. When Fish was in on Berge's leg and drove him out, there is not a ref on this earth that should call that a stall. Brady presented himself and controlled the center of the mat in my opinion for the majority of the match. Brady has always been tough to score on and that hasn't changed. With only his third match back, I think he's still getting in match shape. He's looked extremely tough and I'm interested to see how he does against Marinelli. Super pumped he's back with us, and after 3 matches, he's done a hell of a job.

174 - Watching the live feed we didn't get the chance to see the cradle that didn't produce near falls. Some on here have said the rewatched it and it was a good call. I haven't rewatched it so I believe them. Doesn't matter. Great match.

184 - Credit to Layne Malczewski, he had a hell of a weekend, and didn't make it easy on Brooks. Brooks' escape right to the takedown is exactly why he's a national champ. That killer instinct is what separates the top guys from everyone else. I think Layne has the potential to be there at some point, but right now, its Brooks' weight.

197 - I'm gonna take heat on this one. I said it against Rutgers, and Michigan, and again today. Dean has not looked like the number two ranked guy. He's a phenomenal top wrestler, and has scored a lot off of turns, but when you rely on your turns to win matches, and you don't get turns, something has to give. I don't mind him taking a loss at this point in the season, I'm not claiming he's doomed for the rest of the season. What I will say however is he needs to figure something out against other top guys. Maybe its a mental thing, which I hope it isn't because that can be super hard to overcome. My hope and prediction is this loss does nothing but help him get back on track and he shows it next Friday against another top guy in Warner. He's a national finalist for a reason.

285 - Not too much can be said with Kerk. No disrespect to Wilton, but he's just not on Kerk's level, in fact only about 4 other guys are.

Overall another great showing. Its sometimes hard to get up for a team like Michigan State after wrestling a team like Michigan Again, no disrespect to them, but they were an overwhelming under dog compared to Michigan where there was a number of swing matches. Momentum is a weird thing in this sport, and after two dominating wins, we should be riding high. Lets keep the train rolling since it is heading into the midwest... ...again.

We Are!
depending when you give cstar 2, there is at least 2 backpoints... as much as most tilts...even when he was moving into and out of his back bridge
 
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depending when you give cstar 2, there is at least 2 backpoints... as much as most tilts...even when he was moving into and out of his back bridge

Watched the replay that someone posted earlier (it was for select matches including Carter's). He had a near-side cradle but he never cleared the near shoulder - you can see MSU wrestler cradled but his back isn't breaking 90 degrees.
 
This board underrates Warner way too much. Probably because Iowa fans hyped him up as a potential 4 timer and the Reenan fiasco. He is not what he was hyped to be but he is indeed a very physically gifted and positionally sound wrestler who is a very safe bet to AA in March. We talk like he's going to bounce R16 because he wrestles some guys to 6-5 decisions that I do think Max would bonus. His style is boring as hell (and I bet he would tell you that even lol) and I'm fairly confident won't notch a single bonus point at NCAAs but for the most part, he is pretty matchup proof (part of it is because he plays so safe lol) whereas Max actually isn't.

Irrelevant to his wrestling, he seems like a pretty good kid also.
Agree with this. It also doesn’t help that he looks absolutely awful in quite a few of his matches. You could pick out a dozen of his wins that make him look like a 2-2 guy at the tourney. But he finds ways to win, ugly or no and at the end of the day that’s what matters. He often looks like he should looks to mediocre guys, he pretty much never does though.
 
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I think Warner is a good, even great wrestler. He may win ugly, but he wins. I also think that Max Dean should beat him.

Like I said above, Warner and Caffey actually do some of the same things and that could (should?) help Dean/the staff prepare for him.
 
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Agreed. Hit rewind & rewatch the sequence.
Carter had the cradle, but never got the exposure past 90 degrees.
Didn't matter in the long run.
Have to admit, Dean has been playing with fire as of late, meeting a red hot Caffro now was bad timimg. Max needs to get back to his dominating ways lol.

Dean is a stud and will likely deliver some valuable bonus for us turning guys early in the tourneys. That said he is a small 197 and will struggle with the brick shithouse 197s who walk around above 205 before the cut.

Can Max win a national championship? Absolutely, but running the gauntlet of the bigger top 10 197s is not an automatic win in the sense of how we were spoiled with Bo.

Even Nolf, Mark and to some extent AB have had very close matches with these body types. Bo's match with Gabe serves as yet another example. Given the examples above it seems Cael has a formula!
 
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Even Nolf, Mark and to some extent AB have had very close matches with these body types. Bo's match with Gabe serves as yet another example. Given the examples above it seems Cael has a formula!
Good point. Trying to remember which, if any, of PSU's recent wrestlers were long and rangy for their weight class?

David Taylor (esp. at 157)
Ed Ruth (esp. at 174)
 
Good point. Trying to remember which, if any, of PSU's recent wrestlers were long and rangy for their weight class?

David Taylor (esp. at 157)
Ed Ruth (esp. at 174)
I remember someone on here saying Ruth didn’t look particularly strong, but had to be given what he could do.

I wanted to tell the guy to get out of weight rooms because he was watching to many puffed up types. Ruth made beach muscle guys look like weaklings - there was nothing wasted on him, plus he had hands like vise grips
 
I remember someone on here saying Ruth didn’t look particularly strong, but had to be given what he could do.

I wanted to tell the guy to get out of weight rooms because he was watching to many puffed up types. Ruth made beach muscle guys look like weaklings - there was nothing wasted on him, plus he had hands like vise grips
Who was the Lehigh kid that was crawling away from Ed and Ed grabs the kid by the heel with a fingers, thumb grip and just pulls him back in. The kid drops his head knowing he was in over his head.
 
I remember someone on here saying Ruth didn’t look particularly strong, but had to be given what he could do.

I wanted to tell the guy to get out of weight rooms because he was watching to many puffed up types. Ruth made beach muscle guys look like weaklings - there was nothing wasted on him, plus he had hands like vise grips

Carter falls into this category.... doesn't look overly huge, but is extremely strong. He regularly sucks opponents legs in from a full sprawling position (even top ranked opponents) - you just do not see that very often at this level and Carter does it on a regular basis.
 
Who was the Lehigh kid that was crawling away from Ed and Ed grabs the kid by the heel with a fingers, thumb grip and just pulls him back in. The kid drops his head knowing he was in over his head.
I don't remember who that was, but give him credit for hanging in that long. A lot of guys tried crawling away from Ed at weigh-ins.
 
How did Bo pin everyone as soon as he locked up a cradle? I’ve seen a bunch of different wrestlers that get a cradle but don’t even get any points out of it. With Bo as soon as he locked it up you knew it was over.
 
Who was the Lehigh kid that was crawling away from Ed and Ed grabs the kid by the heel with a fingers, thumb grip and just pulls him back in. The kid drops his head knowing he was in over his head.
Riddick? Or maybe Hamlin.
 
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Who was the Lehigh kid that was crawling away from Ed and Ed grabs the kid by the heel with a fingers, thumb grip and just pulls him back in. The kid drops his head knowing he was in over his head.

Riddick? Or maybe Hamlin.
Of his Lehigh opponents, he didn't wrestle Riddick, but did get Hamlin 2X. Other Lehigh guys were Meys, Brown, Diekel and Griffin (NLO).
 
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