Wrestling LIVE THREAD: Penn State vs. Michigan 1/19

creamery freak

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Jul 26, 2014
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Including when the first takedown is a counter score?

In which case we've already seen the last shot Lehigh and OKST take in a first period. No reason for them to take any risk whatsoever.
I've thought about it being offensive only, but you'd have this scenario. Let's say your guy is wrestling Nolf. Coach has him, at the whistle dive at Nolf's feet in period 1 and Nolf counters for a takedown. If we're only giving 3 for the initial offensive takedown, Nolf only scores 2 points. So after the release it's only a net gain of 1, which is back to what we have currently. It's got to be 3 for either the initial offensive or counter takedown unfortunately. An elite VanBrill would never score a 3 point takedown!😉
 

dbldoofus

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Jan 18, 2017
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PA D1
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Just make a TD 2 1/2 points and call it a day. 2 TDs and 2 escapes makes it 5-2. That sounds about right :)
Think about it:
9 Tds to zero Tds +8 escapes (releases) makes it 18-8. Still closer to a MD than a Tech. Not fair. BUT:
9 Tds to Zero Tds + 8 escapes (releases ) makes it 22.5-8. Much closer to a tech....as it should be. Do It!
Fractional points in Folkstyle? I like math...but not in this situation.

Imagine this: An Iowa wrestler in CHA is in deep, but the opponent has both ankles.,, TnT yell "Three" and hold up TWO fingers. As good as Harbaugh eating boogers
 
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nitlion6

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Fractional points in Folkstyle? I like math...but not in this situation.

Imagine this: An Iowa wrestler in CHA is in deep, but the opponent has both ankles.,, TnT yell "Three" and hold up TWO fingers. As good as Harbaugh eating boogers
Don't bring up scoring changes around CHA at all. Unless you want a 15 minute dissertation on why getting a stalling call should be a 6 point move.
 

82bordeaux

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10 seconds left and the light in Amine’s eyes went out.
giphy.gif
 

PSUbluTX

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Fractional points in Folkstyle? I like math...but not in this situation.

Imagine this: An Iowa wrestler in CHA is in deep, but the opponent has both ankles.,, TnT yell "Three" and hold up TWO fingers. As good as Harbaugh eating boogers
 

Sportfan2017

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Reminded me of Suriano's ankle injury against Oky St.
Different Injury. Suriano's was a severe ankle roll that broke bones. Mattin's injury was a severe extention of the foot. Possible ligament damage. Hopefully just a painful stretching that will get him back healthy quicker. But a bad location...like a high ankle sprain. More painful. More Important location and longer recovery. Hoping for the best. I hate injuries
 

Sportfan2017

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Fractional points in Folkstyle? I like math...but not in this situation.

Imagine this: An Iowa wrestler in CHA is in deep, but the opponent has both ankles.,, TnT yell "Three" and hold up TWO fingers. As good as Harbaugh eating boogers
Funny because it's possible. I stick by my fraction suggestion. How many times with 90 seconds or even 45 seconds left does a guy losing by one fart around because he knows he can't hold the guy down....so he waits until 10 seconds to go to try for a TD. Lots of wasted time with both wrestlers not doing much. BUT......if that TD was worth 2.5 points.......he would be going for it knowing he would still have the lead after an escape. Encourage action more frequently.
 
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CJFisJoePaII

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I just rewatched the match and I don't ever recall seeing Cael on his feet as much as he was yesterday.

Agree. Have never seen him as animated as he was when the Ref stopped the match during the escape / takedown fiasco. If you go back and watch the rape you'll see that the action isn't stopped until Michigan throws a brick (the 2nd official alerts mat official of Challenge). I think (I can't remember) Michigan used there Challenge already because Cael immediately jumps up and is yelling at mat official and continues what he is saying as he walks toward the table where officials are walking. The Ref then says it isn't a "Coach Challenge" but an "Official's Review" despite the fact that the action was stopped when Michigan threw brick.... Cael was extremely displeased with the officiating in that sequence and have rarely seen him that animated before.
 
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CJFisJoePaII

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Nice observations. I’m on the same page with nearly every point.

Hilde was tentative but vigilant, as you have to be when battling a viper like Suriano, who could kill you if you are careless. Says a lot about Hilde’s dangerousness that NS also had to wrestle tight and carefrul IMO.

I loved seeing Beau come out so aggressive and ready to pounce. Looked like the result of great coaching. Super bummed we didn’t get to see that play out and that Mattin got injured. Hoping for a speedy and complete recovery for him.

It looked to me like CStar may have come in a bit too hot in P1, as if he was eager to make a statement against an elite wrestler like Massa. Props to him for gutting out the win when things went a little sideways. With better pacing I suspect Carter has a more lopsided win next time.

I give Dean a slightly higher grade than you did because he won with higher mat IQ and maturity IMO. Brucki is a dangerous opponent and is chiseled like Michelangelo’s David. It looked like Dean was giving up 20+ pounds in that match. Aside from his early mistakes to fall behind, he put on a clinic in how to drag a bigger opponent into deep water and drown him there late. Impressive. BTW, if memory serves, Dean gave up the reversals in the previous match, not against Brucki.

What more can be said about Kerk’s performance — wow! Definitely merits A++. The way he controlled that match, took down Parris almost at will, and appeared to have enough gas in the tank to go another 7 minutes at the end was incredible. Even for those of us who saw a path to victory for Kerk I’m sure few expected that display of dominance. Parris certainly looked confused by the experience.

Dean gave up two takedowns in match, not two reversals.
 

nerfstate

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Oct 10, 2017
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I’m in the camp that things are more or less fine the way they are—but you could avoid fractions by going big. Takedowns are 5, escapes 2, near fall 4 & 8…. Heck then you could make a stepout 1. Just playing a devils advocate….
 

Callthestall

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I personally don't mind the scoring as is but if you want to tinker with take down and point system maybe something like this would be an option. It would add responsibility to ref and table.
Take Down 2 ;
Take Down and Control 3 ;if top man keeps control of bottom for 10 seconds. Table would use riding time clock as timing mechanism for the bonus point.
Near Fall 2; for 2 second count
Near Fall 3;. For 3 second count
Near Fall 4 ; for 4 second count
Near Fall 5;. For 5 second count

A wrestler would have opportunity to score 8 points on big move from his feet.
 

a_mshaffer

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Dec 8, 2014
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An optimist would note that Dean found a way to beat a national 4th placer in the other guy's gym.
I wanted ultimate domination! :) will be interesting to not make comparisons after today's match with Caffey based on Beard's Scuffle showing. Regardless looking down the road at NCAAs.
On a more serious note, any updates on Beard's injury?
 

tikk10

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In all this fantasy talk rarely does anyone wonder about the practical realities of actually enforcing that new rule or scoring system (aside from Jefe, a few posts above). I think there's a correlative relationship between the complexity of the rulebook (especially in areas where discretion is afforded) and the quality of refereeing. Even something as simple as a change to scoring would hit speed bumps. Add to that the fact that referees are practically nonprofit volunteer masochists. The pool of people willing to be screamed at in exchange for gas money is small and it often shows (no offense intended toward the excellent referees on this forum!). Even if refereeing were lucrative (college wrestling isn't exactly oozing money) and rule changes could be easily implemented, such changes also run the possibility of alienating more casual fans who feel frustration at not being able to keep up.

That said, for my fantasy wrestling makeover I'll go ahead and once again prescribe making reversals 3 points, since a reversal is, in essence, an escape and takedown more efficiently accomplished. And enforcement would hit few speed bumps.

If I wanted to be provocative I could maybe argue for making straight-on takedowns worth more than go-behinds (say 3 pts vs 2 pts), given that so much of folk, especially at the upper weights, has made shooting riskier than waiting for your opponent to shoot. But I also think such a rule would be next to impossible to consistently enforce, and create more problems than it solves. And the coaches would probably figure out a way to game it to death before long as well.
 

STAND with PRIDE

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Sep 9, 2018
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1)Am I wrong or isnt it a DQ if the brick is thrown when you are out of challenges?

2) Did anyone see Kharchla go to shake Iowa coaches hands and get snubbed? It seems like they are doing this more and more. I only red that it happened, maybe someone can verify…
 

BruceK-PSU83

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1)Am I wrong or isnt it a DQ if the brick is thrown when you are out of challenges?

2) Did anyone see Kharchla go to shake Iowa coaches hands and get snubbed? It seems like they are doing this more and more. I only red that it happened, maybe someone can verify…
According to the tOSU board, this happened repeatedly throughout the meet - Brands would turn his back to the Bucknut wrestler and not shake hands.
 

mcpat

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Mar 13, 2021
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According to the tOSU board, this happened repeatedly throughout the meet - Brands would turn his back to the Bucknut wrestler and not shake hands.
I can’t help but think it’s a childish response to the scrutiny against the Minnesota debacle. (“They’re gonna criticize us for instigating when we were just rushing over to shake hands? We just won’t shake hands anymore.”)

I have no basis to make this accusation, but can’t help to wonder.
 

crablegs1

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Feb 27, 2009
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In all this fantasy talk rarely does anyone wonder about the practical realities of actually enforcing that new rule or scoring system (aside from Jefe, a few posts above). I think there's a correlative relationship between the complexity of the rulebook (especially in areas where discretion is afforded) and the quality of refereeing. Even something as simple as a change to scoring would hit speed bumps. Add to that the fact that referees are practically nonprofit volunteer masochists. The pool of people willing to be screamed at in exchange for gas money is small and it often shows (no offense intended toward the excellent referees on this forum!). Even if refereeing were lucrative (college wrestling isn't exactly oozing money) and rule changes could be easily implemented, such changes also run the possibility of alienating more casual fans who feel frustration at not being able to keep up.

That said, for my fantasy wrestling makeover I'll go ahead and once again prescribe making reversals 3 points, since a reversal is, in essence, an escape and takedown more efficiently accomplished. And enforcement would hit few speed bumps.

If I wanted to be provocative I could maybe argue for making straight-on takedowns worth more than go-behinds (say 3 pts vs 2 pts), given that so much of folk, especially at the upper weights, has made shooting riskier than waiting for your opponent to shoot. But I also think such a rule would be next to impossible to consistently enforce, and create more problems than it solves. And the coaches would probably figure out a way to game it to death before long as well.
If the change is only to the scoring, but not into the interpretation of rules, I don’t see a challenge for officiating. If all takedowns were worth 2.5 points that wouldn’t change the referees job one bit. It would require updates to scoreboard systems.
 

SUPERTODD

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I can’t help but think it’s a childish response to the scrutiny against the Minnesota debacle. (“They’re gonna criticize us for instigating when we were just rushing over to shake hands? We just won’t shake hands anymore.”)

I have no basis to make this accusation, but can’t help to wonder.
It is the same crap the Brands always pull. If you watch the puff piece about them the BIG network put out you will see Tan Tom criticize their shenanigans. The Brands were probably butt hurt over that.
 

nitlion6

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I can’t help but think it’s a childish response to the scrutiny against the Minnesota debacle. (“They’re gonna criticize us for instigating when we were just rushing over to shake hands? We just won’t shake hands anymore.”)

I have no basis to make this accusation, but can’t help to wonder.
Not sure if you are right or not, but childish, response, and Brands are three words that seem comfortable together in a sentence.
 

mcpat

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Even of related to his personal protocol comfort level, if true, turning one's back would be a bad look.
This isn’t the first report about refusing handshakes since their Minnesota dual. Maybe it’s nothing but message board scrap, I don’t know, just can’t help but wonder.
 

psualt

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Nov 2, 2014
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1)Am I wrong or isnt it a DQ if the brick is thrown when you are out of challenges?

2) Did anyone see Kharchla go to shake Iowa coaches hands and get snubbed? It seems like they are doing this more and more. I only red that it happened, maybe someone can verify…
All you could see in tv were some strange reaction by fans. I assumed that something along those lines happened as you saw kharchla going to their corner prior to the camera switching.
 

CJFisJoePaII

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Just make a TD 2 1/2 points and call it a day. 2 TDs and 2 escapes makes it 5-2. That sounds about right :)
Think about it:
9 Tds to zero Tds +8 escapes (releases) makes it 18-8. Still closer to a MD than a Tech. Not fair. BUT:
9 Tds to Zero Tds + 8 escapes (releases ) makes it 22.5-8. Much closer to a tech....as it should be. Do It!

Why not go the opposite direction.... make an escape worth 1/2 a point... Then it doesn't mess up the value of a TD relative to NF points and attaining MD or TF.
 

mcpat

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Why not go the opposite direction.... make an escape worth 1/2 a point... Then it doesn't mess up the value of a TD relative to NF points and attaining MD or TF.
Why not take the radius of the mat circle, square it, multiply it by pi, divide it by two times pi times the radius and use the result as the points for NF when the controlled wrestler’s back is outside the circle?
 

NitFan53

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Feb 13, 2019
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All you could see in tv were some strange reaction by fans. I assumed that something along those lines happened as you saw kharchla going to their corner prior to the camera switching.
I don't know why a competitor needs to shake hands right after the match. Would Kharchla gone over to Iowa's bench if he would have lost? The coaches are dealing with their wrestler coming off the mat and getting the next wrestler ready for the next match. Everybody can shake hands after the dual.
 

SpikingWhamos

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Aug 26, 2015
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I don't know why a competitor needs to shake hands right after the match. Would Kharchla gone over to Iowa's bench if he would have lost? The coaches are dealing with their wrestler coming off the mat and getting the next wrestler ready for the next match. Everybody can shake hands after the dual.

We've seen Ohio State wrestlers lose to us countless times and still jog over to shake hands.
 

Sportfan2017

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Lol. I think they could keep the signal the same, or even come up with a brand new signal that stands for takedown.
Why not Thumb, Forefinger and pinky? 2 1/2. Or just use the middle finger for entertainment value :)