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Let' discuss: Did the 'moose' ever inhabit Penns Woods? Q-2: Could we introduce the moose today

Not my words but: "When fishers were reintroduced to Pennsylvania in the 90s, I recall many conservationists claiming they would never be able to make it. Fishers, the thinking went, needed huge tracts of unbroken forest: essentially wilderness. The roads, small woodlots, etc of Pennsylvania would not be able to accommodate a wide roamer like the fisher.

But the fisher is thriving, doing much better in Pennsylvania than in huge forest regions of the Rockies. Not really disagreeing–just suggesting that it’s sometimes hard to predict how well wildlife will do. I may never see a moose in Pennsylvania, but you never know."

And, if you recall, the most vicious sharp attacks were generally perpetrated but the SALT WATER Bull shark in FRESH WATER.

Anything can happen; so it IS possible for the moose to make it in Penn's Woods.
 
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If they are in trouble in Maine (and they are) it's partly due to mild winters allowing more insect parasites to survive. I can't see how PA could be a better environment.
 
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The Moose - or De Mooze - certainly did exist in Pennsylvania:
moose.JPG
 
I would think during the glacial periods that moose were in PA. If you go out to Bear Meadows outside State College, you'll find a bog forest similar to a Canadian forest, or at least it was when I took Forest Ecology back in '70. It's what's called a relic community. But, climate conditions have changed for the vast areas of PA since the glacial period.

Could they survive if introduced? We've reintroduced several species including deer, turkey and elk. I imagine the moose would survive, but they do best in swamp areas. A Canadian friend calls them swamp donkeys. But, we don't have the amount of swampy areas we once had. We've drained a lot of them and turned them into farmlands, and later developments. There seems to be pretty many up in the Pocono area. Aquatic plants are a staple of their diet,

I think the bigger question isn't whether we can, but whether we should.
 
The elk population in Benezet is thriving. Heck, I even met somebody up here in New England who has been to and raved about how impressive the Benezet elk are.

Seems a silly thing to have, but my favorite wild animal is the moose...I just find them incredibly majestic. That said, I've never seen one in the wild...hiked all over the Rockies, Alaska, western and eastern Canada, upstate NY, New Hampshire, Maine....nada!! I was beginning to think they are mythological creatures on par with the unicorn. How awesome/ironic would it ulimately be if I spotted my first wild moose in PA!!
 
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Not my words but: "When fishers were reintroduced to Pennsylvania in the 90s, I recall many conservationists claiming they would never be able to make it. Fishers, the thinking went, needed huge tracts of unbroken forest: essentially wilderness. The roads, small woodlots, etc of Pennsylvania would not be able to accommodate a wide roamer like the fisher.

But the fisher is thriving, doing much better in Pennsylvania than in huge forest regions of the Rockies. Not really disagreeing–just suggesting that it’s sometimes hard to predict how well wildlife will do. I may never see a moose in Pennsylvania, but you never know."

And, if you recall, the most vicious sharp attacks were generally perpetrated but the SALT WATER Bull shark in FRESH WATER.

Anything can happen; so it IS possible for the moose to make it in Penn's Woods.

And, the fisher is eating game animals like grouse, as opposed to feasting only on porcupine like the state game commission led us to believe. Any action has a reaction....
 
The elk population in Benezet is thriving. Heck, I even met somebody up here in New England who has been to and raved about how impressive the Benezet elk are.

Seems a silly thing to have, but my favorite wild animal is the moose...I just find them incredibly majestic. That said, I've never seen one in the wild...hiked all over the Rockies, Alaska, western and eastern Canada, upstate NY, New Hampshire, Maine....nada!! I was beginning to think they are mythological creatures on par with the unicorn. How awesome/ironic would it ulimately be if I spotted my first wild moose in PA!!
Moose love broccoli and thats where you can find them in northern Maine. I was up there last week and they are already chomping on their favorite food.
 
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Moose are not that far from Pa. and when they get the urge, moose can wander quite a ways. Last count, we have maybe 30 resident moose right here in Ct.
There was a huge bull moose living a few miles from my home over in Patterson, NY on the Ct. border. He lived in a large swamp that had an upland area in the middle of it.
If they have moved from Maine down throughout New England they can certainly move a hundred miles into the Poconos. There are resident populations in New Hampshire, Vermont, and Mass. down into Ct. They are in areas of NY.
Plenty of habitat in Pa. If elk have taken hold there is no reason moose can't. A bull elk is not much smaller than an average moose.
 
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And, the fisher is eating game animals like grouse, as opposed to feasting only on porcupine like the state game commission led us to believe. Any action has a reaction....
Saw a fisher pretty close up here in Somerset County (not far from Cambria border) about 10 days ago. Crossed my path in an area of Gallitzin State Forest that is being reclaimed from strip mining. Did not know about fishers being in the area until I went home and researched it. Probably had 2 other sightings, including early Sunday morning, but too far away to say for sure. Not sure what they are eating here, but I have seen grouse, pheasants and turkeys in the forest. Chipmunks don't seem to be as numerous as they were in the spring, and I think that is a likely food source for them here.

I am in the forest just about every day, and I expect I will be seeing more fishers.

I have yet to run across a porcupine. (or a moose.)
 
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Saw a fisher pretty close up here in Somerset County (not far from Cambria border) about 10 days ago. Crossed my path in an area of Gallitzin State Forest that is being reclaimed from strip mining. Did not know about fishers being in the area until I went home and researched it. Probably had 2 other sightings, including early Sunday morning, but too far away to say for sure. Not sure what they are eating here, but I have seen grouse, pheasants and turkeys in the forest. Chipmunks don't seem to be as numerous as they were in the spring, and I think that is a likely food source for them here.

I am in the forest just about every day, and I expect I will be seeing more fishers.

I have yet to run across a porcupine. (or a moose.)
Did you see pheasant this past weekend? Seeing a pheasant in PA more than month after the game commission does their last stocking is about like seeing a unicorn.

Porcupines in many parts of PA forests are a menace and do not suffer from any real predation... there are too many things easier to eat in PA than porcupines. The game commission studied porcupine and found that in the deep woods of Canada, the fisher does eat porcupine. They reintroduced the fisher with the thought that the fisher would eat PA porcupines too. It turns out that the fisher hasn't done much to reduce the porcupine population. It doesn't prefer to eat porcupine, it's just that in Canada the porcupine may have been the easiest meal and in PA there are other easier meals (including game species). I'm all for maintaining a balanced ecosystem with all of the creatures that once roamed PA's forests, but the fisher see seems to have been a slight miscalculation.
 
Are you trying to say that the fisher are eating pheasants? That's not the case and has more to do with the increase of hawks vs the '50s & 60s when pheasant populations were up.

Fishers weren't introduced to manage porcupine populations. If the Game Commission wants to manage populations, they allow hunting and trapping. Far more effective than trying to introduce a species.
 
One thing that moose do not like is mature forest. I would think the state would need to increase logging and timber cuts to increase and help maintain young growth. (as a grouse hunter this is music to my years.)

I personally do not think it is a good idea. The PA Game Commission is broke financially and the up-hill battle to reintroducing moose is not worth the financial burden compared to the reward. I would doubt there would ever be a regular hunting season for moose here in PA.

I would rather the PA game commision to re-establish the quail popoluation. It is a native bird (unlike pheasants) and would draw more hunting interest than moose in the years to come.

The re-introduction of elk has been a success. The herd has driven hunting interest as well (an more importantly) tourism in the area.

Are moose susceptible to CWD? That horrendous disease is not prevalent yet in the state, but I think it is "coming" in the next several years.
 
Back in the late 80's I was on a BSA camping trip to Algonquin Provincial Park in Canada... we were on our first day in the canoes and were looking for a place to beach for lunch. We found a nice island in the middle of a massive lake and decided to put in. Being in the front, I beached the canoe and turned around to tie off, only to come face-to-nose with a bull moose! I've never run so fast backward in my life!

They are insanely impressive animals. They can actually swim across great expanses of water due to their buoyancy and large hooves.
 
Did you see pheasant this past weekend? Seeing a pheasant in PA more than month after the game commission does their last stocking is about like seeing a unicorn.

Porcupines in many parts of PA forests are a menace and do not suffer from any real predation... there are too many things easier to eat in PA than porcupines. The game commission studied porcupine and found that in the deep woods of Canada, the fisher does eat porcupine. They reintroduced the fisher with the thought that the fisher would eat PA porcupines too. It turns out that the fisher hasn't done much to reduce the porcupine population. It doesn't prefer to eat porcupine, it's just that in Canada the porcupine may have been the easiest meal and in PA there are other easier meals (including game species). I'm all for maintaining a balanced ecosystem with all of the creatures that once roamed PA's forests, but the fisher see seems to have been a slight miscalculation.
It has been 5 or 6 weeks.

First, I heard pheasant calls for a few days. Then had a couple of encounters with birds flying over the road ahead of me.

I am familiar with the porcupine issue from researching what it was I had seen.

Been a few weeks since I have seen a grouse, too. Did run into some fresh turkey tracks yesterday.
 
Not my words but: "When fishers were reintroduced to Pennsylvania in the 90s, I recall many conservationists claiming they would never be able to make it. Fishers, the thinking went, needed huge tracts of unbroken forest: essentially wilderness. The roads, small woodlots, etc of Pennsylvania would not be able to accommodate a wide roamer like the fisher.

But the fisher is thriving, doing much better in Pennsylvania than in huge forest regions of the Rockies. Not really disagreeing–just suggesting that it’s sometimes hard to predict how well wildlife will do. I may never see a moose in Pennsylvania, but you never know."

And, if you recall, the most vicious sharp attacks were generally perpetrated but the SALT WATER Bull shark in FRESH WATER.

Anything can happen; so it IS possible for the moose to make it in Penn's Woods.
Small woodlots of Pa! The people who said that know nothing about Pa.
 
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I have no problem with an animal or bird species re-establishing itself naturally through range expansion but the forced introduction always has these unwanted consequences.
Fishers were introduced in Ct. a few years back and now they are in every grid square in the state. They eat anything they can catch, including Tabby the cat. They may like porcupine in the uncolonized areas of Canada but down in these latitudes the menu are squirrels, rabbits, ground hogs, muskrats, small rodents and any bird they can catch, among a host of other forms of food.
Fishers can dig, climb trees, wiggle through tiny spaces and burrows, etc. They are a killing machine. They have the hunting skills of a weasel or a mink but so much larger.
The decline in our game bird populations is most often attributed to habitat loss but the real culprit are predators, primarily from hawks and owls. Here in Ct. there are no more huntable populations of grouse whereas in the 80s when I moved here that was not the case.
In the 1960s when I traveled from NJ to State College down Rt 22 to Harrisburg, the road was littered with pheasant carcasses from birds killed flying across the highway and hitting 18 wheelers. Now, no more.
The decline in youth trapping has caused a huge increase in opossums, skunks, raccoons, and fox. Add in the range expansion of the eastern coyote, bobcats, bears and now the predators have absolute control of the prey species.
The elimination of DDT, and its impact on nesting mortality due to broken egg shells, has brought back the hawks and owls. By themselves they were a balance to the game birds but now there simply are too many predator species at high population densities.
Bringing in Fishers to control porcupines was so dumb that it almost smacks as a straw-man argument to cover up whatever real or imagined goal the Game Commission and other states really had in mind.
 
I have no problem with an animal or bird species re-establishing itself naturally through range expansion but the forced introduction always has these unwanted consequences.
Fishers were introduced in Ct. a few years back and now they are in every grid square in the state. They eat anything they can catch, including Tabby the cat. They may like porcupine in the uncolonized areas of Canada but down in these latitudes the menu are squirrels, rabbits, ground hogs, muskrats, small rodents and any bird they can catch, among a host of other forms of food.
Fishers can dig, climb trees, wiggle through tiny spaces and burrows, etc. They are a killing machine. They have the hunting skills of a weasel or a mink but so much larger.
The decline in our game bird populations is most often attributed to habitat loss but the real culprit are predators, primarily from hawks and owls. Here in Ct. there are no more huntable populations of grouse whereas in the 80s when I moved here that was not the case.
In the 1960s when I traveled from NJ to State College down Rt 22 to Harrisburg, the road was littered with pheasant carcasses from birds killed flying across the highway and hitting 18 wheelers. Now, no more.
The decline in youth trapping has caused a huge increase in opossums, skunks, raccoons, and fox. Add in the range expansion of the eastern coyote, bobcats, bears and now the predators have absolute control of the prey species.
The elimination of DDT, and its impact on nesting mortality due to broken egg shells, has brought back the hawks and owls. By themselves they were a balance to the game birds but now there simply are too many predator species at high population densities.
Bringing in Fishers to control porcupines was so dumb that it almost smacks as a straw-man argument to cover up whatever real or imagined goal the Game Commission and other states really had in mind.

Well said sir.
 
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