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June 28th, 1914.........102 years ago today, the Great War (AKA World War I) began

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The article says that after the Archduke's assassination, Austria declared war on Bosnia. Nope, it was Serbia.
 
The article says that after the Archduke's assassination, Austria declared war on Bosnia. Nope, it was Serbia.

That is really sloppy.

The 2nd sentence in the link states:

"Princip, a Serbian nationalist enraged by the annexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina by the Austro-Hungarian empire, had assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand, presumptive heir to that empire’s throne, and his wife, the duchess of Hohenberg, as they rode in a motorcade."

Bosnia and Herzegovina were annexed in 1908.

Then in the 8th sentence, the link states:

"After the assassination Austria declared war on Bosnia."

As Royal_Coaster indicated, that's incorrect. It was Austria-Hungary that declared war, and they did so against Serbia. It would have made no sense for them to declare war on Bosnia, as that was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
 
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One of the many really horrible aspects of the war was that the huge advances in weaponry weren't nearly matched by a real understanding of how destructive they were.

The admirals had started their careers under sail, the generals were essentially trained to use Napoleonic tactics. No one had expected the wholesale slaughter that resulted.
 
That is really sloppy.

The 2nd sentence in the link states:

"Princip, a Serbian nationalist enraged by the annexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina by the Austro-Hungarian empire, had assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand, presumptive heir to that empire’s throne, and his wife, the duchess of Hohenberg, as they rode in a motorcade."

Bosnia and Herzegovina were annexed in 1908.

Then in the 8th sentence, the link states:

"After the assassination Austria declared war on Bosnia."

As Royal_Coaster indicated, that's incorrect. It was Austria-Hungary that declared war, and they did so against Serbia. It would have made no sense for them to declare war on Bosnia, as that was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Why would a Serbian nationalist care if Bosnia and Herzegovina were annexed? Were they afraid that Serbia would be next if left unchecked? I have a HUGE gap in my understanding of how The Great War began. I only recall being taught that Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated and that led to WWI. Seems that a lot of dominoes needed to fall between those things.
 
Why would a Serbian nationalist care if Bosnia and Herzegovina were annexed? Were they afraid that Serbia would be next if left unchecked? I have a HUGE gap in my understanding of how The Great War began. I only recall being taught that Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated and that led to WWI. Seems that a lot of dominoes needed to fall between those things.

CLICK HERE for more about Gavrilo Princip, and why he killed the Archduke.
 
Why would a Serbian nationalist care if Bosnia and Herzegovina were annexed? Were they afraid that Serbia would be next if left unchecked? I have a HUGE gap in my understanding of how The Great War began. I only recall being taught that Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated and that led to WWI. Seems that a lot of dominoes needed to fall between those things.

Serbians wanted a "greater Serbia"--including Bosnia. There were two Balkan wars fought shortly before WW I. Serbia did get a "greater Serbia" in the form of Yugoslavia after WW I--but it dissolved after the fall of communism.
 
Well at least the "War to end all Wars" accomplished that !!! Well done "human beings" ???
 
Actually, Austria didn't declare war on Serbia until the end of July. After the assassination, Austria delivered a list of demands for Serbia to meet. They met all but one demand, and Austria declared war about a month after the Archduke's assassination. Barbara Tuchman's book, The Guns of August, is still one of the best books that explains how WWI started.
 
There are some really great books about the origins of WW1 that are worth reading

Massie: Dreadnought
Tuchman: Guns of August
MacMillan: The War that Ended the Peace
Clark : Sleepwalkers

You read these and know what is coming but know you can't do anything about it.
 
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Dreadnought and Castles of Steel, both by Massie, are great reads. Dreadnought addresses the build up to war while Castles describes the naval war, limited though it was, between Great Britain and Germany
 
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Barbara Tuchman's book, The Guns of August, is still one of the best books that explains how WWI started.

There are some really great books about the origins of WW1 that are worth reading

Massie: Dreadnought
Tuchman: Guns of August
MacMillan: The War that Ended the Peace
Clark : Sleepwalkers

I'll third the recommendation on Tuchman's book. (FWIW, I recommend pretty much everything that Tuchman wrote. She had a flair for writing about history in a way that satisfied historians, yet kept it interesting for non-historians.)

I also recommend MacMillian's book and Clark's book. I have not read Massie's book(s), so I can't comment on it.
 
Hough's "Dreadnought" makes the case that the naval arms race between Great Britain and Germany made war inevitable. It was Great Britain's intention to have the most powerful navy on the planet, and it was Germany's intent to have a big enough navy to threaten Britain's survival in the event of war. Germany felt threatened by the potential of a British blockade, Britain was fearful of German surface raiders cutting their supply lines at sea.

The press in both countries took a very jingoistic view of the arms race, comparing individual ships and the numbers of ships being built by each side as if it was a sporting event. Each side essentially built an entirely new battle fleet in under ten years, at incredible expense.
 
If I remember correctly, WWI started because of all of the war pacts that countries had with each other combined with essentially a lack of quick communications. Back then, letters had to be sent and monarchies were on vacation for weeks so letters went unanswered and was taken as an insult, etc...And in the end, Germany and France/England goto war because two tiny countries didn't like each other but Germany had a pact with one and France with the other.
 
My Uncle Bill was killed at Soissons.

My paternal grandfather was in France with the Army Corps of Engineers. My maternal grandmother's cousin fought for Austria-Hungary in WW I and then was drafted into the German army in WW II. Another relative of my maternal grandmother, Karl Schuler, was killed in Belgium and is buried at the German Military Cemetery in Menen--we think. I'm sure there were other relatives involved (I think my maternal grandfather was in the Guard--I have a photo of him in some kind of uniform).
 
If I remember correctly, WWI started because of all of the war pacts that countries had with each other combined with essentially a lack of quick communications. Back then, letters had to be sent and monarchies were on vacation for weeks so letters went unanswered and was taken as an insult, etc...And in the end, Germany and France/England goto war because two tiny countries didn't like each other but Germany had a pact with one and France with the other.

Truth is that Germany and France were spoiling for a fight as were Austria and Serbia. France wanted revenge for 1871 and Germany prepared an offensive war, knowing they were going to fight again sooner or later. They preferred to fight on French soil rather than their own, so the German staff prepared the Schleifen plan which almost worked in WW I and then (in modified form) did work in WW II (because no one expected the Germans to come through the Ardennes).
 
Actually, Austria didn't declare war on Serbia until the end of July. After the assassination, Austria delivered a list of demands for Serbia to meet. They met all but one demand, and Austria declared war about a month after the Archduke's assassination. Barbara Tuchman's book, The Guns of August, is still one of the best books that explains how WWI started.
but there was more going on than just Austria Hungary versus Serbia and Serbia wanting greater Serbia. The other allies on both sides were using this as an opportunity to advance their interests and so were all involved in getting the war going and manipulating the situation to their own interests.
 
The fact that both sides, Germany/Austria and England/France/Russia had secret defense alliances contributed greatly to the dominoes falling toward war. Also, the sheer size of Russia forced them to mobilize weeks ahead of putting an army into the field. That mobilization caused, in turn, Germany, then France and England, to mobilize as well.
 
Truth is that Germany and France were spoiling for a fight as were Austria and Serbia. France wanted revenge for 1871 and Germany prepared an offensive war, knowing they were going to fight again sooner or later. They preferred to fight on French soil rather than their own, so the German staff prepared the Schleifen plan which almost worked in WW I and then (in modified form) did work in WW II (because no one expected the Germans to come through the Ardennes).

I agree. If it wasn't this particular spark that started the dominoes, sometime in the pursuing decade something else would have happened that Europe would have went to war. Too many countries with too many centuries old grudges against each other with each one wanting to be the dominant country in Europe (which meant the entire world at that point in history).
 
My older brother relayed to me a great story my paternal grandfather told him about his own combat service in WWI. My grandfather was a battalion cook and was preparing lunch for the battalion one morning. This was during an emergency juncture at the height of one of the major battles (could have been Belleau Wood but I'm not sure) and the Germans were attacking and on the very verge of breaking through the battalion's lines. There was always noise coming from the front so my grandfather had no idea anything unusual was going on. The officers were scouring the rear areas for any able bodies they could find so some captain my grandfather had never seen before finds him and yells at him "What the hell are you doing back here." My grandfather says, "I'm cooking lunch for the battalion." The officer says "well get your rifle and get your ass up to the front right now." My grandfather tried to explain he was just a cook and wasn't an infantryman. The officer told him that didn't matter they needed everyone at the front right away. My grandfather persisted saying, "if I go up to the front there won't be any lunch for the battalion." The officer lost it and screamed at my grandfather, "if you don't get your rifle and get your ass to the front right now there won't be a battalion left to cook lunch for." So my grandfather found his rifle (it took some looking) went up to the trenches and repeatedly fired his rifle in the direction of the Germans until he ran out of ammunition ( he had no idea if he hit anyone) then went back to the rear area to finish cooking lunch. After the emergency had passed, the battalion was relieved and there was a hot lunch waiting for them when they returned. That was the extent of combat my grandfather saw in the Great War.
 
Hmph. 30 million soldiers killed and many other atrocities in a war that wasn't a religious war. Imagine that. ;)

Well, kinda. Russia was allied with Serbia mainly because both countries were Orthodox and also Slavic. The sad part of the war is because Austria-Hungary had so many nationalities within it, and the borders arbitrarily split nations, you literally did have brother fighting against brother. Also, because people might have sympathies with their brethren outside the empire, Austria constructed several concentration camps and interred thousands of "suspicious" people. Many of these people died from exposure, starvation, and other issues.
 
History channels Apocalypse World War 1 is an outstanding series. The advances in tank and air tech is just incredible. IIRC, Churchill, Hitler, Stalin and Patton were all within miles of each other at one point.

I've read several books on air aces of that era.

Just incredible what mankind can do to each other.
 
History channels Apocalypse World War 1 is an outstanding series. The advances in tank and air tech is just incredible. IIRC, Churchill, Hitler, Stalin and Patton were all within miles of each other at one point.

I've read several books on air aces of that era.

Just incredible what mankind can do to each other.
I agree with recommendations for Barbara Tuchman's Guns of August. Tuchman, writing in the 1960's with WWII still a recent memory, clearly places the blame for the start of the war on Germany and its allies. As pointed out by others, there are a number of somewhat more recent theories arguing that Germany was scapegoated and the war was the result of broader forces and actions of other countries, including Great Britain, which did not have any alliances and could have remained neutral.

I also recommend listening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcasts (http://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/) on WWI. They are long (almost 18 hours in total), and he sometimes meanders a bit or forgets to close this or that loop. But he pulls together some great details, especially concerning the individual soldier's experience of the war, and he offers his own spin. Several times during the examination of various battles he speculates on whether people from today's world would have the strength or stamina to keep going over the wall when the whistle sounded when the prior results would seem to indicate that the "plan" was not really working. Maybe that's a good thing, but it's an interesting point to consider.
 
One of the many really horrible aspects of the war was that the huge advances in weaponry weren't nearly matched by a real understanding of how destructive they were.

The admirals had started their careers under sail, the generals were essentially trained to use Napoleonic tactics. No one had expected the wholesale slaughter that resulted.
If they had paid more attention to our Civil War, many mistakes could have been avoided and lives spared, but the haughty Europeans in the main thought the Civil War was fought by "armed mobs".
 
Tuchman's The Zimmerman Telegram is great reading. The diplomacy is nonstop treachery. Woodrow Wilson was out of touch with reality.
 
Enjoying the thread...thank you to the contributors.

when my brother and i went to the UFC game in Dublin, we spent a day in London. Visiting the Tower of London, we noticed they were planting red poppies. As it turns out, they were planting a red poppy for each person killed in WW1 for the anniversary of 'the great war'. The visual helps in understanding the level of human carnage of that war. Mind you, this isn't wounded or harmed, this is killed:

tower-of-london-poppies-528599.jpg

3033890-poster-p-1-tower-of-london-poppy.jpg

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In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

- John McCrae 1915
 
I noticed on my recent trip to Germany how common red poppies were along the roadsides. Like daylillies here in Ohio.
 
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

- John McCrae 1915


The red poppies that McCrae referred to had been associated with war since the Napoleonic Wars when a writer of that time first noted how the poppies grew over the graves of soldiers.[45] The damage done to the landscape in Flanders during the battle greatly increased the lime content in the surface soil, leaving the poppy as one of the few plants able to grow in the region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Flanders_Fields
 
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Enjoying the thread...thank you to the contributors.

when my brother and i went to the UFC game in Dublin, we spent a day in London. Visiting the Tower of London, we noticed they were planting red poppies. As it turns out, they were planting a red poppy for each person killed in WW1 for the anniversary of 'the great war'. The visual helps in understanding the level of human carnage of that war. Mind you, this isn't wounded or harmed, this is killed:

tower-of-london-poppies-528599.jpg

3033890-poster-p-1-tower-of-london-poppy.jpg

TOWERPOPPIES_WEB011-660x394.jpg

8598f116-83e3-4136-a023-d05489939bc1-2060x1236.jpeg
And even more sobering, those numbers tend to be dwarfed by the number of dead in WWII, especially if you take into account civilian deaths due to the advent of "total war" concepts like aerial bombing of civilian production and cities... and of course the concentration camps. Kind of surprising that we've actually managed to not blow the entire world up with nuclear weapons in the past 70 years...although maybe that was because the people with the fingers on the red buttons for most of that time had survived WWII. Scary to think what may happen if we manage to forget.
 
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