After these last 2 weeks? Probably never. John thinks it will just be ignored by media & thus majority of the public at this point. This was the plant's idea though so he could decide to come forward anyway.
John Ziegler giving up, says its over now.
- Thread starter bplionfan
- Start date
After these last 2 weeks? Probably never. John thinks it will just be ignored by media & thus majority of the public at this point. This was the plant's idea though so he could decide to come forward anyway.
OT
Thank you Bill for your LTE's and participation on this board. Don't take this the wrong way but this might be the first non-LTE post I've seen you make.
I hope that you will be involved in more discussions going forward. Your opinions, in depth, would be welcomed.
#4 was mine. It's actually that Doe A (Travis Weaver) gave the February date on PSU's behalf so that PMA would be forced to pay it. According to 1992 contract starting March 1, 1992 PMA was off the hook for paying on any sexual assault allegations. Originally Doe A didn't give a month. PMA sent him a request with 2 questions: His date of birth & date of first assault. As soon as Doe A submitted his February answer PSU gave him a check for $1.25 million.
here Roxine, here's some hot material for you. Go occupy yourself for a few hours drooling over it.
then remind yourself that Ziegler is a free man DESPITE your efforts to falsely imprison him.
Falsely imprison him? I thought roxine was fighting for the truth!
To be honest I have a hard time buying this from JZ. Two weeks ago he makes a huge proclamation and since he didn't get the attention he wanted from the media he now is taking his ball and going home? Maybe there was a plant, but the simple fact he was going on and on about the truth and is now upset he didn't get his attention he is done with PSU. JMO, but maybe he thinks his spotlight will be better served at another train wreck where he can get on the air. What about him fighting for his innocent victim (his opinion) sitting in jail?
I think most people want to know the truth when it comes to the horrible decisions made by the BoT 4 years ago. The schools leadership absolutely jumped on a sword they didn't have to IMO and we still really don't know why. Some people were just a bit more skeptical of JZ than others and the truth needs to come out from ALL parties involved if that is even possible. His defense tactic of blaming or mocking the victims wouldn't work in court and didn't work out for him in this instance. Again if someday there was a plant and that comes to light, I'll eat my crow as I have been an outspoken critic of his tactics.
Ray seems to look for the truth minus a side show look at me circus act. Maybe JZ was on to something and everyone involved from the victims, prosecutors, and law enforcement all pushed this false story forward. Anything is possible as people have been duped before, but that is an awful lot of people out there just wanting to sink JS. This was a man who was there to help his victims as kids and they all decided to screw him over? Again it's possible and I don't doubt a few of the claims may be bogus(70's for example), but JZ claimed Jerry's innocence. He lost a ton of people with those claims and no real proof.
Adlee or anyone who is sure, help me out here, please. How many claimants claimed that they told Joe that JS had abused them sexually - specifically told Joe? Is it just the 1971 and 1976 cases? Were there others? Also, how many claimed that asst. coaches witnessed some sort of abuse? Was it just the 'hands down pants' and 'finger in butt in the communal shower' ones? Thanks for any info you can provide.
I'm not going to hammer you again on the stuff Simmons96 and Jubaaltman have taken you to task on, your lack of response to them is deafening. So I won't pile on.
Just like most things you post, it doesn't apply to the Paterno situation. What you are talking about is all well and good when you actually witness something, like say a child with lots of bruises, and suspect they might be abused. Paterno witnessed nothing, so he couldn't "suspect" anything, only MM could suspect child abuse.Roxine said:
Then why are you here spreading misinformation to exercise a football grudge when you could be actually helping? You could be shining the spotlight on the professionals at DPW/CYS/TSM that failed those kids, instead you want to keep the focus on the football coach that did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do.Roxine said:
So in Summary, since the Penn State University employees had no direct contact with Children, they are not required to report... got it! But look at the list of who is mandated to report... Sandusky's boss at TSM, The foster parents of JD from the 70s. Dr. Dranov apparently was required to report. All these people could have put a stop to JS before Joe Paterno ever was involved. Why do you ignore them?Roxine said:
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You guys keep bringing up Joe Paterno's name. Not me. I was correcting something Simons said about teachers being "fired" for reporting child sex abuse. He is putting out misinformation.
Can you tell everyone what you put in your search engine that started your advocacy?
What "Roxine" and "Andrea DiMaggio" are doing is switching back and forth between the old Law and revised one in an attempt to spin responsibility for Joe, Spanier, Curly and Schulz.
Roxine - I feel I must comment.
First - this is a Penn State sports message board. While I am not a sports fan, i appreciate the fact that the format of this forum allows exchange of ideas, opinions & information for those of us who happen to be Penn Staters who have been unjustly smeared as child rape enabling Kool Aid guzzling JoeBot Paternopologists simply because we have a lot of unanswered questions about local, state & Second Mile professionals.
We were all thrown into this by Old Main & Harrisburg & a appreciate having a place to discuss this.
Personally - as a mother & someone who has been subject to a Nice Guy Pilllar Offender - I find being smeared as a a child rape enabler incredibly dehumanizing. Especially when it comes from men who are rabid sports fans and using it as a weapon for some stupid sports rivalry.
I have made great efforts to place my personal concerns in front of my local & state decision makers, the Trustees, Dr. Barron, victims advocates and local reporters covering this story - whether it's over coffee, a scheduled one on one meeting, over a conference call or in a public forum.
The guys (and gals) here are all attached to Penn State in some fashion - I doubt you need to inform, preach or otherwise correct them about child sexual abuse - because I think, after 4 plus years of being educated on the topic - most everyone here is an extremely educated audience on this.
I suspect that many here also go out into their respective communities and will spread correct information, apply what they've learned here with any volunteer or professional work with kids or even to their own families.
Seeing that a lot of the vile misinformation about child abuse & sexual victimization is spread by those on OTHER sports message boards & by the sports media - I have to ask if you are spending quality time on those platforms informing that audience.
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Roxine said:
The discussion is about Paterno being fired. You know this of course... just an example of the misinformation from YOU.
Now that this distraction has been taken care of... please address the other points in my post.
Well said, I've been repeating this point to Roxine for months!
Until last night, "Roxine's" garbage was limited to here. Suddenly, "she" appeared on PL, after JudasShuttlesworth posted tripe on PL and JJ ran over to an over year old article to laud the bullshit.
Thank you Wendy for all you do! I very much appreciate all of your efforts you do to fight the false narratives and shenanigans of the Commenwealth (Corbett, Fina, Feudale, etc), the old guard BOT (Surma, Lubert, Frazier, Masser, etc), the. NCAA, TSM, the media, and any other parties that have played prominent roles in promoting the fiasco.
I appreciate your presence on social media (blogs, posts, and tweets) as well as your BOT public comments, your lobbying of public officials, your promoting of the Upon Further Review sessions, and your support of the Covey for Justice campaign. Wendy, you are the greatest!
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there are 14-15 threads on the Panther Lair that are chock full of misinformation
you think she hangs out there to correct them?
I firmly believe "Roxine" is the clown mbe34/JudasShittlesworthless who simply reads Tree Climbers, and makes up bullshit.
Roxine IS a real person. I've done the research. but I do wonder how many fake alties she has.
kind of interesting that the tree-climbers.org domain name is registered until 2019, but all content has been removed
There is a real Roxine. But not the Shittlesworthless clown that appears here and on PL.
well that domain name IS registered to her private business. as is the "charity". She has made her presence know at various events.
but in this day and age, who knows who is really who on the interwebz
Victim 5 changed his story at the trial. He said he met JS during the summer he turned 11. He wasn't even in The Second Mile when he was 7. Neither was v6, I think you have some of the facts wrong. And I never said it was okay to abuse kids. Just pointing out that men don't really care much about women or girls being raped that much, which is why Baylor got 1/1000 of the media attention as Penn State, even though Baylor had multiple rapists.
You think nobody would care if JS molested a dozen or so girls. Do people even read what they type anymore?
Maybe you don't read what you type. Studies prove that men who abuse boys receive harsher punishments than men who abuse girls, but believe what you want to believe. I can't think of any scandal in sports involving abuse of girls or women that received the kind of attention Penn State received, can you?
LOL. Who is justifying him? I think he's guilty of most of the things he's been accused of. I guess you can't read.
You're way out of bounds on this. Truly.
There's a big disparity between how female and male victims of CSA are treated and how these cases are treated by the media. That's a fact.
Around the country, police, prosecutors, and newspapers still refer to underage girls who accept gifts and money in exchange for sex as "child prostitutes." Google it.
Many of Sandusky's victims did exactly the same thing. They took gifts and favors from Sandusky in exchange for allowing Sandusky to sexually abuse them.
There is absolutely no difference. And yet never once has anyone in the media referred to a Sandusky victim as a "child prostitute." And they are right to refrain from that.
But why the hell are police, prosecutors, and newspapers allowed to refer to female victims of CSA as "prostitutes?" They are victims. Just like Sandusky's victims.
Correct. But they are still little angels in the public's mind, not "sluts" like female victims would be.
There's one victim who claimed he did. Has that been picked up by ESPN, Bernstein, Baddoe, Cowherd, etc., etc.?So you are saying that the public would be okay with JS raping teenage girls?
"If he had sex with 17-year-old girls the men who call him a monster would be congratulating him on scoring some pussy. They'd probably also the girls really wanted it and were fast for their age."
This scenario isn't even close to what Jerry did so it's not even a valid comparison. That is what kicked this off. Show me the sports media guy bragging about a serial rapist of female children. Do that for me as I don't recall one doing so, but it may have. What is the point of this to show there is a disparity in the justice system...well that is pretty much known already. The media treated Joe and PSU unfairly and that is known around here, but the BoT pointed directly at them to make it go away. Sandusky groomed and molested little boys for his own sick perverted needs. Again I don't EVER recall a case where a dozen or so girls were molested at 13 or so years of age and the sports media said "good job".
To be clear I think the media is not fair and it's not in all walks of life as they are a click/ratings driven business, but they certainly don't set my moral compass in terms of what is fair or not in this world. I don't think Cowherd or anyone else would be talking up what a great guy the 50 year old sleeping with 13 year old girls. If they did I really doubt they would keep their jobs very long. There are a TON of double standards in this country that aren't fair, but I won't use them to try and lessen the blow of what Jerry did. His crimes set off a modern day witch hunt which is sad as it could have been used to educate people had it been handled correctly by the schools admin. Instead they threw fuel on the fire and setup more people to burn at the stake. To me talking about teenage girls at this point is a pretty weak deflection.
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So who are these thousands of children who are on Penn State's campus for summer camp and programs? How How about the patients at Penn State patients? How about the day care program on campus? How about the 17 year old freshmen? Are you saying they all are ghosts? Should we call paranormal experts?
How in the world can you say Penn State employees have no direct contact with children.
No because she "didn't talk to Joe" like the victim in the 70's claimed. Tie Joe to any of this and it gets the attention they want or need even if they don't really research it. I'll bet they didn't even read the material released last week to be honest. I doubt most read the Freeh report and if they did, they certainly didn't question it. Hell the people that paid 8 million for it didn't even read it.
To take a page from your book… How could you possibly think that Joe Paterno was a mandatory reporter?
There is a difference between "Penn State Employees" and "THE Penn State employees". "Penn State employees" is general and was not used in the conversation, "THE Penn State employees" that were being referred to in the discussion, who had no direct contact with children, were not mandatory reporters. You decided to misquote a phrase in the middle of a discussion and ignore the context.
Reading comprehension is not a strength I see. A serious suggestion... a fraction of the time you wasted typing up this irrelevant response could have been spent reading for comprehension and realizing that you shouldn't respond. Next time, read the post twice before you respond to make sure you truly understand it. Everyone wins!
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So you think Spanier is serving pancakes at the summer camp dining hall?
You think Curley is a nurse at Hershey Medical Center?
You think Schultz teaches Freshman Composition?
**rolls eyes*. . . the contortions some of the CSA mafia go through to pin this on C/S/S and Joe, right?
The statute I see referred to earlier in this thread refers to mandatory reporters being "school employees". And "school employees" is defined as "an individual who is employed by a school or who provides an activity or service sponsored by a school. The term does not apply to administrative personnel unless that person has direct contact with children."
In this case (assuming, of course, that the definition is correct) the only school employees who are exempt from being mandatory reporters are administrative personnel who do not have direct contact with children. Penn State, I believe, would qualify as a "school" just as any other school would. Just for the sake of argument, Joe was not administrative personnel (he ceded those duties when he stopped being the AD) so he wouldn't fit into that exemption. Even if he was "administrative personnel", his direct contact with 17 year old high school football recruits would likely satisfy the "direct contact with children" requirement.
It's certainly not who the statute was designed to cover, but under the definitions I see in this thread (again, assuming they are correct) I don't see a way that Joe would fit into the exemption. Curley, Schultz, and Spanier, though are different stories because they are administrative personnel who do not have direct contact with children.
Just relaying what the guy told me. As far as Ray? He's doubts alot more about alot more victims than many here think he does.
