Joe's statue

[michnittlion]

That's it??????

See. This is a problem with some (not all) of the "Paterno Loyalists."

Even when we DO honor JoePa (e.g., the Temple game in 2016) --- they will incessantly ask for MORE. And MORE. And MORE.

Nothing will ever be good enough for a portion of "Paterno Loyalists."

 

[sluggo72]

1. Where exactly did Joe do more?

2. Telling your bosses that they "shouldn't spend a single minute discussing my status" is absolutely insubordinate. That letter was Joe's attempt to pull a power play on the Board. Didn't work, blew up in his face.

3. Last 7 years: the 2006, 2007, 2010 and 2011 teams were all nothing special. That's the majority of the 7 years from 2005-2011. Not to mention the 2000-2004 era which came before those 7 years: most of those teams were below-average. As I said, Joe's teams, IN THE AGGREGATE, were simply average over the 2000s (2000 - 2011).

4. The valid comparison isn't "JoePa vs. michnittlion" but rather "JoePa vs. the earlier versions of himself." And JoePa had clearly lost his fastball in the 2000s, as compared to the 1970s-1990s. It's not "knocking" Joe to point all that out. It was self-evident even at the time.

okay but why fire him at that point for failure to lead?

 

[Art]

See. This is a problem with some (not all) of the "Paterno Loyalists."

Even when we DO honor JoePa (e.g., the Temple game in 2016) --- they will incessantly ask for MORE. And MORE. And MORE.

Nothing will ever be good enough for a portion of "Paterno Loyalists."

Fvck you.

 

[john4psu]

See. This is a problem with some (not all) of the "Paterno Loyalists."

Even when we DO honor JoePa (e.g., the Temple game in 2016) --- they will incessantly ask for MORE. And MORE. And MORE.

Nothing will ever be good enough for a portion of "Paterno Loyalists."

If not for Joe Paterno, Penn State is Purdue.

Before Rick Reilly of SI became a douche, he stated that other than Benjamin Franklin no other individual did more for the state of Pennsylvania than Joe Paterno.

 

[michnittlion]

If not for Joe Paterno, Penn State is Purdue.

Before Rick Reilly of SI became a douche, he stated that other than Benjamin Franklin no other individual did more for the state of Pennsylvania than Joe Paterno.

That ignores the fact that PSU had 27 consecutive non-losing seasons BEFORE Joe Paterno became coach.

Besides, PSU is in Pennsylvania - big population state with a lot of native football support. Purdue is in Indiana - lower population and a basketball state.

In the long-term, it's damn near impossible for PSU football to consistently be at Purdue's level. We have an abundance more structural advantages. Crediting JoePa for PSU football not being like Purdue football - that makes no sense.

 

[sluggo72]

That ignores the fact that PSU had 27 consecutive non-losing seasons BEFORE Joe Paterno became coach.

Besides, PSU is in Pennsylvania - big population state with a lot of native football support. Purdue is in Indiana - lower population and a basketball state.

In the long-term, it's damn near impossible for PSU football to consistently be at Purdue's level. We have an abundance more structural advantages. Crediting JoePa for PSU football not being like Purdue football - that makes no sense.

well explain then, why does PSU basketball struggle? Because PA is not a 'basketball' state?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

That ignores the fact that PSU had 27 consecutive non-losing seasons BEFORE Joe Paterno became coach.

Besides, PSU is in Pennsylvania - big population state with a lot of native football support. Purdue is in Indiana - lower population and a basketball state.

In the long-term, it's damn near impossible for PSU football to consistently be at Purdue's level. We have an abundance more structural advantages. Crediting JoePa for PSU football not being like Purdue football - that makes no sense.

I still want to know which of the Paterno's gave you a swirley? To say Joe didn't build anything at PSU is a joke, don't care if you like him or not. It's a GD joke and it's as if you totally like discrediting yourself even further than you already have. Nobody can take you serious on anything when you make these idiotic posts because you're somehow butt hurt over the Paterno's not shaking your hand or some BS.

 

[john4psu]

That ignores the fact that PSU had 27 consecutive non-losing seasons BEFORE Joe Paterno became coach.

Besides, PSU is in Pennsylvania - big population state with a lot of native football support. Purdue is in Indiana - lower population and a basketball state.

In the long-term, it's damn near impossible for PSU football to consistently be at Purdue's level. We have an abundance more structural advantages. Crediting JoePa for PSU football not being like Purdue football - that makes no sense.

What exactly did we win in those 27 consecutive non-losing seasons before Joe Paterno?

Before and after Joe Paterno - and that's just the football stadium not to mention all the growth all across the campus and university as a result:

 

[RussianEagle]

okay but why fire him at that point for failure to lead?

michnittlion is just being a troll. It's very similar to what Clay Travis did with Greg Schiano. He fires up the entire UT fanbase to claim that Schiano covered up child rape, then when called out his bullshit, he tried to cover his ass by claiming he just was against Schiano because he was a mediocre coach.

 

[heckmans]

Fine. Joe Paterno followed the "letter of the law." I'll grant that.

He was also fired --- deservedly fired --- for his insubordination toward the Board of Trustees in November 2011. That was well before the Freeh Report's release in July 2012.

So Joe is someone who (1) deservedly got fired and (2) didn't really do anything as regards Sandusky beyond the minimum "letter of the law."

That merits the statue going back up? I thought statues, and the "form of immortality" that statues grant, were for people who were truly extraordinary?

For most of the 2000s, Joe was about as ordinary as can be. His teams were generally average, he didn't do beyond the bare minimum at any aspect of his job (e.g., he didn't recruit much, he didn't try to find better assistant coaches, he didn't try to innovate his offense), and he thought he could call his own shots and didn't have bosses to answer to.

Joe was one of college football's best in the 1970s-1990s. But there's really not much about him in the 2000+ era that was extraordinary.

If you think Joe did the "minimum letter of the law", but COULD have done more, you don't understand anything about the law.
Joe had ZERO involvement in ANYTHING. He had no direct knowledge of anything. He was told about something non-specific 2nd hand about a former employee and he reported it to his superiors as he was required. Beyond that, he had ZERO ability or standing to even get an update on where things stood.
This entire narrative you are trying to sell is BS and you are as ignorant on the topic as the rating-whores up in Bristol.

Finally, the logic that Joe wasn't on the top of his game during the 2000s, so he is less "extraordinary" is even more ridiculous.
The counter point, of course, is that despite your assertion that Joe was average and did the bare minimum, he didn't recruit, his assistants were average, and he was extremely arrogant, from 2000-2011, PSU was Big10 champs and finished #3 overall in 2005, were Big Ten Champs in 2008, had 3 top 10 finishes. If Joe was doing the bare minimum and his assistants were average, then 3 top 10 finishes coming out of the dark years is pretty damn extraordinary.

I agree with you that Paterno should have retired after George died in 02. By his own admission, he lost his drive after that. But the rest of your assertions are patently absurd.

 

[heckmans]

Fvck you.

I typed a long reply obliterating this troll's assertions, but you said it better with just 2 words!

 

[pandaczar12]

Not to state the obvious, but the problem is that even if it wanted to, and I don’t think it does, the University can’t put the statue back unless and until the Freeh narrative is debunked or at least put in proper context. The prevailing public opinion, cemented in place by his firing, the Freeh report and the recent movie, is that Joe either actively concealed or turned a blind eye toward Sandusky’s crimes. If the statue is returned to its rightful place it will become a lightening rod, a distraction and be defaced or worse. I wish it weren’t so, but that is reality.

It's the actions PSU would have to take to put the statue back that are really what is important. Announce after a thourough review of the Freeh Report, taking into account the results of the admin trials, the words of the AG who praised Joe, and the recently published NCAA guidelines... that Joe Paterno was wrongfully terminated, apologize to his family, put the statue back up.

 

[pandaczar12]

If you think Joe did the "minimum letter of the law", but COULD have done more, you don't understand anything about the law.
Joe had ZERO involvement in ANYTHING. He had no direct knowledge of anything. He was told about something non-specific 2nd hand about a former employee and he reported it to his superiors as he was required. Beyond that, he had ZERO ability or standing to even get an update on where things stood.
This entire narrative you are trying to sell is BS and you are as ignorant on the topic as the rating-whores up in Bristol.

Finally, the logic that Joe wasn't on the top of his game during the 2000s, so he is less "extraordinary" is even more ridiculous.
The counter point, of course, is that despite your assertion that Joe was average and did the bare minimum, he didn't recruit, his assistants were average, and he was extremely arrogant, from 2000-2011, PSU was Big10 champs and finished #3 overall in 2005, were Big Ten Champs in 2008, had 3 top 10 finishes. If Joe was doing the bare minimum and his assistants were average, then 3 top 10 finishes coming out of the dark years is pretty damn extraordinary.

I agree with you that Paterno should have retired after George died in 02. By his own admission, he lost his drive after that. But the rest of your assertions are patently absurd.

Be prepared for him to not respond. Many have posed similar challenges, and he never responds.

 

[pandaczar12]

2. Telling your bosses that they "shouldn't spend a single minute discussing my status" is absolutely insubordinate. That letter was Joe's attempt to pull a power play on the Board. Didn't work, blew up in his face.

First off, you don't understand the definition of "insubordination". When did Joe defy authority or refuse to obey their orders? Secondly, you need to learn the difference between "should" and "shall".

Joe clearly was trying to make matters relating to him as easy as possible, and simultaneously emphasize the importance of the other matters they needed to attend to. The sort of noble behavior he exhibited for decades.

Joe was right, they shouldn't have wasted a single minute discussing his status... maybe they wouldn't haven't messed everything else up so bad.

 

[demlion]

1. Where exactly did Joe do more?

2. Telling your bosses that they "shouldn't spend a single minute discussing my status" is absolutely insubordinate. That letter was Joe's attempt to pull a power play on the Board. Didn't work, blew up in his face.

3. Last 7 years: the 2006, 2007, 2010 and 2011 teams were all nothing special. That's the majority of the 7 years from 2005-2011. Not to mention the 2000-2004 era which came before those 7 years: most of those teams were below-average. As I said, Joe's teams, IN THE AGGREGATE, were simply average over the 2000s (2000 - 2011).

4. The valid comparison isn't "JoePa vs. michnittlion" but rather "JoePa vs. the earlier versions of himself." And JoePa had clearly lost his fastball in the 2000s, as compared to the 1970s-1990s. It's not "knocking" Joe to point all that out. It was self-evident even at the time.

1. Well, if you credit Mcqueary, which you HAVE TO in order to maintain your bogus stance in this, then you must believe that Joe asked him a year or so later if he was satisfied with what had happened. He said he was satisfied.
Way beyond the minimum
I could answer the rest but you are not worth it.

 

[WeARE]

What coach has the most football wins at the FBS level (formerly Div. 1)?

Who was the Coach of the two National Championship football teams in the school's history?

There probably should be a statue of that guy at the FOOTBALL Stadium. And in my opinion the same exact one they had no good reason to take down.

 

[NukeSandwich]

I wonder where it's being stored??

Basement of Fisher Hall.

 

[nittany dave]

Since we are coming up on 6 years since the statue of Joe was taken down, just curious as to what the responses would be. Please don't read anything into the questions. Thanks very much for your votes and comments.

I appreciate the comments, but votes would be nice.

 

[nittany dave]

Since we are coming up on 6 years since the statue of Joe was taken down, just curious as to what the responses would be. Please don't read anything into the questions. Thanks very much for your votes and comments.

My bad. I had to hit results to see the votes.

 

[michnittlion]

Be prepared for him to not respond. Many have posed similar challenges, and he never responds.

What's to respond to? JoePa was a liar (he knew about 1998 in 2001 - even Curley said this at last year's trial), Joe's arrogance led to him getting fired, and Joe never followed up with anyone in a position of power (following up with McQueary is meaningless, given Joe was his boss - what was MM going to say?) in 2001 or afterwards as regards Sandusky.

I'm not saying Joe was evil incarnate. But the above simply isn't statue-worthy behavior.

 

[michnittlion]

I still want to know which of the Paterno's gave you a swirley? To say Joe didn't build anything at PSU is a joke, don't care if you like him or not. It's a GD joke and it's as if you totally like discrediting yourself even further than you already have. Nobody can take you serious on anything when you make these idiotic posts because you're somehow butt hurt over the Paterno's not shaking your hand or some BS.

I didn't say Joe didn't build "anything."

But it's a relatively common claim here that if JoePa didn't appear in State College, (1) Penn State would be playing football in the MAC, (2) while recording annual 4-8 records, and (3) have an academic reputation on par with Shippensburg.

That's kind of insulting to the thousands and thousands of other Penn Staters who have built PSU over the years. Not to mention our previous football coach. He's in the College Football Hall of Fame too.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I didn't say Joe didn't build "anything."

But it's a relatively common claim here that if JoePa didn't appear in State College, (1) Penn State would be playing football in the MAC, (2) while recording annual 4-8 records, and (3) have an academic reputation on par with Shippensburg.

That's kind of insulting to the thousands and thousands of other Penn Staters who have built PSU over the years. Not to mention our previous football coach. He's in the College Football Hall of Fame too.

So your only point is made up fiction as it is something that will never be known. By all means do carry on.

 

[michnittlion]

So your only point is made up fiction as it is something that will never be known. By all means do carry on.

Well, we do have some data points. PSU has just as many (1) B1G Championships, (2) 10+ win seasons, (3) overall winning seasons and (4) Top 10 seasons in the 2012-2017 era (6 years immediately following JoePa) vs. the 2006-2011 era (last 6 years of the JoePa era).

That despite NCAA sanctions, of course (which, arguably, were partially Joe's fault).

How is that possible? How is it that, once we account for the relative handicap of the NCAA penalties, we are doing better post-Joe Paterno?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Well, we do have some data points. PSU has just as many (1) B1G Championships, (2) 10+ win seasons, (3) overall winning seasons and (4) Top 10 seasons in the 2012-2017 era (6 years immediately following JoePa) vs. the 2006-2011 era (last 6 years of the JoePa era).

That despite NCAA sanctions, of course (which, arguably, were partially Joe's fault).

How is that possible? How is it that, once we account for the relative handicap of the NCAA penalties, we are doing better post-Joe Paterno?

LOL, man did they do a job on you. Let your little hatred go...seriously...he's dead for goodness sake.

 

[michnittlion]

LOL, man did they do a job on you. Let your little hatred go...seriously...he's dead for goodness sake.

And to think pandaczar12 accused me of dodging questions.

Oh well, carry on.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

And to think pandaczar12 accused me of dodging questions.

Oh well, carry on.

I like that you continue your little hate speeches on Joe, it only further cements the fact you have a huge bias against the man and his family.

 

[AvgUser]

That despite NCAA sanctions, of course (which, arguably, were partially Joe's fault).

Really???
Seriously???

Any and all benefit about your ethics, integrity and sense of morality are forever revoked by that absurd statement.

 

[Osprey Lion]

If not for Joe Paterno, Penn State is Purdue.

Before Rick Reilly of SI became a douche, he stated that other than Benjamin Franklin no other individual did more for the state of Pennsylvania than Joe Paterno.

If Rick said that it must be true. I heard he was a great historian before he became a "douche". .

 

[michnittlion]

I like that you continue your little hate speeches on Joe, it only further cements the fact you have a huge bias against the man and his family.

"Hate speech on Joe"? That's a bit hyperbole. I'd argue that none of the below are "hate speech on Joe.":

Pointing out that PSU football has been better in 2012-2017 than 2006-2011 is not a "hate speech on Joe."

Neither is pointing out that Joe inherited a program that was already doing well and had a lot of structural advantages for future success.

Neither is opining that PSU football will ALWAYS be better long-term in football than Purdue. Or opining that PSU football would be in the MAC without JoePa coming to State College. We'd be better than Purdue (long-term) and would not be in the MAC even if PSU had named me coach.

Neither is opining that Joe deserved to be firing for the statement he released on the morning of 9-November 2011.

Neither is pointing out that, per Tim Curley's own court testimony in 2017, Joe apparently did know about 1998 in 2001.

 

[Art]

I typed a long reply obliterating this troll's assertions, but you said it better with just 2 words!

You did a nice job and I gave that steaming pile of horse dung two words more than he deserves.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

"Hate speech on Joe"? That's a bit hyperbole. I'd argue that none of the below are "hate speech on Joe.":

Pointing out that PSU football has been better in 2012-2017 than 2006-2011 is not a "hate speech on Joe."

Neither is pointing out that Joe inherited a program that was already doing well and had a lot of structural advantages for future success.

Neither is opining that PSU football will ALWAYS be better long-term in football than Purdue. Or opining that PSU football would be in the MAC without JoePa coming to State College. We'd be better than Purdue (long-term) and would not be in the MAC even if PSU had named me coach.

Neither is opining that Joe deserved to be firing for the statement he released on the morning of 9-November 2011.

Neither is pointing out that, per Tim Curley's own court testimony in 2017, Joe apparently did know about 1998 in 2001.

You can't see it which is even better....keep digging.

 

[Osprey Lion]

Really???
Seriously???

Any and all benefit about your ethics, integrity and sense of morality are forever revoked by that absurd statement.

Many people believe that those traits were in question regarding Paterno's actions or lack of
in 2011 and caused his downfall.

 

[PSUPride1]

What's to respond to? JoePa was a liar (he knew about 1998 in 2001 - even Curley said this at last year's trial), Joe's arrogance led to him getting fired, and Joe never followed up with anyone in a position of power (following up with McQueary is meaningless, given Joe was his boss - what was MM going to say?) in 2001 or afterwards as regards Sandusky.

I'm not saying Joe was evil incarnate. But the above simply isn't statue-worthy behavior.

Wow. One of your most idiotic posts to date. What was Mike going to do? Are you Feffing serious?
Joe may have known about 98 and forgot. When he was asked about it he was near death. And if he knew so what. He would know JS was cleared if any wrong doing. You're trying too hard dude.

 

[sluggo72]

And to think pandaczar12 accused me of dodging questions.

Oh well, carry on.

speaking of dodging questions, okay than explain why PSU basketball has been so great over the years.

 

[Beachwineguy]

Neither is pointing out that, per Tim Curley's own court testimony in 2017, Joe apparently did know about 1998 in 2001.

So Joe knew that a former employee had been investigated but never charged with anything in 1998. And then twelve years later denied knowing it, when he couldn't remember his own QB's name. Got it....

 

[Art]

If Rick said that it must be true. I heard he was a great historian before he became a "douche". .

Many people believe that those traits were in question regarding Paterno's actions or lack of
in 2011 and caused his downfall.

Walt, stick to what you're good at, like fvcking yourself.

 

[didier]

1. Well, if you credit Mcqueary, which you HAVE TO in order to maintain your bogus stance in this, then you must believe that Joe asked him a year or so later if he was satisfied with what had happened. He said he was satisfied.
Way beyond the minimum
I could answer the rest but you are not worth it.

If a review of the Freeh material, demonstrating the falsity of the conclusions, was made public it would go a long way imo to getting the statue restored.

 

[marshall23]

Wins in the 6 years after JVP was fired 51. Wins in JVP's final 6 years, including his last which he didn't have the opportunity to complete 54.
All time football record 856-379-37
JVP record 409-136-3
all others 447-243-31
end of discussion.

 

[Osprey Lion]

1. Well, if you credit Mcqueary, which you HAVE TO in order to maintain your bogus stance in this, then you must believe that Joe asked him a year or so later if he was satisfied with what had happened. He said he was satisfied.
Way beyond the minimum
I could answer the rest but you are not worth it.

McQueary being satisfied would be important because?

 

[marshall23]

JVP 24 bowl victories
all others 5