Outside of 2016 where MSU was an absolute dumpster fire the results are. 34-10 MSU in 2014, 55-6 in 2015, 27-24 in 2017, 21-17 in 2018.
James Franklin = John Cooper (OSU)
- Thread starter OmniscientFan
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Outside of 2016 where MSU was an absolute dumpster fire the results are. 34-10 MSU in 2014, 55-6 in 2015, 27-24 in 2017, 21-17 in 2018.
Cooper won a BT Title coming off crippling sanctions? Then followed it up with another top 6 or do finish and Fiesta Bowl win? I just wish the DQ’s would STFU already and get over it. After every loss in spite of what he has done, people still need some validation for Franklin. It’s pretty damn scary how quickly some become so disloyal.
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That’s why I said he’s on his way. Do the scores need to be exactly the same every year as well?
Funny thing is that Cooper was the DC at Kansas in 1968. Yeah, that game....
This board fires the head coach after every loss for as long as I’ve been around here.
Sweet jeebus are their factual errors in this!
Holy shit like basic stuff
99 losing season. Nope
Blockbuster Bowl 1990 FSU was top 5
Miami in 1991 was 12-0 what a bunch of smelly ***** they were. Maybe they will be your next sig pic.
1992 Miami finished #3, was #2 and #1 all year with a Sugar Bowl loss. PSU had 3 pt loss at home.
Penn State didn't play Cincy in 84. But Paterno did say that team wasn't any good Friday before the game and couldn't put a series together. So he didn't try to sell bullshit.
Penn State didn't play Florida in 1996. They played in 1997 (98 Bowl) with the 2 best offensive players suspended Enis and Joe Jo. Yea terrible loss. Also Toledo was 10-1 it's with Chester Taylor at Running Back but it's still toledo.
The top of your head needs a refresher
That's a false pretence. Record wise yes. But he is recruiter and it's already cycled through. On full throttle. Sanctions never once hurt the recruiting because that was lifted.
When asked post game about being ahead of schedule in 2016. He said "right on schedule"
Don't oversell if you can't deliver
Perhaps if we didn't also have to play against such bogus officiating the record would like slightly different.
Who might have won Saturday with fair officiating?
Was Toledo, but probably close to one of the best teams to ever come out of MAC.
Are you serious, we lost perhaps the best player in Penn State history. We lost, with apologies to Ted Kwalick, perhaps the best tight end in Penn State history. We lost our offensive coordinator and we had several retirements at critical defensive positions. We have a very young defense and we are still recovering from the horrid offensive line recruiting under OB.
As much as a love Joe, and I have his picture on the wall of my den, we were accepting of competing every 4 years for a national championship with the expectation that years 1 and 2 of that cycle would be mediocre as compared to the two good years. I don't know what more people could expect after the worst sanctions, other than SMU, in college football history. We are now recruiting with all but perhaps Alabama and we are back in the national picture.
That being said, we have a problem with collapses late in games against quality power football teams. I know this opinion is dismissed because we now run the RPO, but I believe that the cause of our late collapses is because we can't line up late in the game, dominate the line of scrimmage and run the ball. I believe that part of the problem is that running the RPO removes that mindset from the coaches and linemen.
My concern is we are now the type of team that Penn State used to consistently beat. With the type of team we are now, our good teams would control the line scrimmage and the clock at the end of the game.
I don't know what the solution is to stop our late game collapses but all of these losses occurred after we were at least even or outplayed the teams that beat us for 3 and half quarters. As much as football has changed over the years it still comes down to beating the man in front of you whether that is an offensive linemen, defensive linemen, wide receiver, DBack or linebacker.
After my three negative paragraphs don't get me wrong, I love Franklin and I hope he retires here, but we have a demonstrated problem using the RPO as a ball control offense.
John Cooper's 13 years as head coach of Ohio State:
Otherwise, Cooper's got a heck of a resume. Not every coach develops the dynasty that Urban Meyer has, but what Cooper did is a pretty realistic baseline of what expectations should be at a Big Ten school.
- Losing record his first year, and then 12 straight seasons at .500 or better.
- Three Big Ten championships
- Eight top-25 finishes
- Three top-10 finishes
- Two national runners-up
- Wins in the Rose Bowl, Holiday Bowl and Sugar Bowl
Otherwise, Cooper's got a heck of a resume. Not every coach develops the dynasty that Urban Meyer has, but what Cooper did is a pretty realistic baseline of what expectations should be at a Big Ten school.
So, Cooper was 5 and 3 against Paterno.
And Tressel was 6 and 3 against Paterno.
Total Paterno was 6-11.
That doesn't make Franklin's 1-4 so disastrous considering sanction years and last two years PSU lost by 1 point after blowing 4th quarter leads. It will come.
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I remember PSU fans at games questioning whether Joe could ever get us a national championship. It was never all roses and glory for Joe. It never is for any coach.
Franklin's issue right now is that he is attempting a very fast rebuild, like tOSU, and our roster depth is not there yet. We have a very young team. He thought Trace would be enough. Still a lot of games to go. I believe with his recruiting effort he will get PSU to the point of a "re load" not rebuild quickly.
Can’t be...Paterno never had bad seasons, never blew a lead, always beat teams he should have, and was in the top four every year in his career. Haven’t you been reading this board? Geez.
And cooper didn't start out with a handicapped program. he didn't have a depleted roster, weak recruits from sanctions and have to recruit from a shattered reputation of a school who turned their backs on all of their tradition.
Sorry, there’s no guarantee it will come. Need to take advantage of opportunities as they present themselves.
Living here in Columbus, I've heard stories about Woody's first three years here. During the third, folks here were singing "O come and sing Ohio's praise, and say goodbye to Woody Hayes" (paraphrase of their Alma Mater). But in 1954, they won the MNC....
Every coach gets this questioning.
Not under Franklin no they didn't ...he had no limitations regarding scholarships. Oh half year of a bowl ban. That was gone before week 2 of a season 2014.
Sorry let's not over exaggerate.
But he was playing with players from previous recruiting classes where it did hurt. Let's not under exaggerate either. That's partly the reason for depth issues on the line, for example.
Yes he did and that was the point of my post and then some.
Cooper took the Buckeyes from what had become a "so so program" at the time and brought them back to national prominence. But unfortunately, he never could figure out how to bet Michigan (2-10-1). But even amidst those 11 times he came up short against Michigan, he did push Ohio State's recruiting boundaries and on-field expectations to heights not even seen when Woody Hayes roamed OSU sidelines. Shiitttt... the guy reeled in talent like Eddie George, Antoine Winfield, Orlando Pace, Dan Wilkinson, Mike Doss, and David Boston. He basically pulled OSU recruiting out of the dark ages.
But with that being said, you ask any OSU fan who knows his history, and they will tell you that even though Cooper did all of this, it was his shortcomings in big games that proved his undoing and was the main reason why he got canned.
Granted the LJ comment was idiotic on my point. I'll give you that. But my point is this: Franklin has done so much for Penn State. No doubt. But this trend, no matter what your excuses are, of losing games in the 4th quarter, and having a 3-11 against Ohio State, Michigan, and Michigan State, will be his (Franklin) undoing and he needs to fix it. Because if he can't I have no problem with PSU looking for a new coach.
It was in the beginning. If their are depth issues now. That's on identifying developing and bringing in kids. You can't point the finger at Bill or the sanctions. Three more are coming back at ya if ya do.
The DL playing OL are gone.
And the stain on he university just magically disappeared when Franklin showed up? He inherited a mess no matter how you slice it. The fact he never had a losing season is beyond impressive. Most new coaches have a losing season without the after effects of sanctions, yet Franklin didn’t. He started in a hole that no other coach at another program had to deal with. Numbers only tell part of the story.
Would you take 10-2 every year regardless of who the losses were against? Or would you rather have an 11-1 every four or five years with some 7-5 seasons sprinkled in? Not trying to be argumentative, I truly want to know. Let’s face it, there aren’t going to be any 12-0 seasons anymore for pretty much every program especially ones that have to play 9 Conference games, so 11-1 is about the best you can hope for, so 10-2 is pretty damn good especially if you’re doing it consistently.
Sure have a lot of nit wits on this board. Have to wonder if other schools have the same problem.
Scott Frost was considered the savior at Nebraska and he is winless. Their fans believe he will turn it around but look what they are enduring in the interim. They were not coming off sanctions. What Franklin has done is pretty impressive. If we have to suffer thru 10-2 seasons as the norm that’s still a top 10 program
No, this is Franklin's fifth year. Sanctions were still in effect in his first year and it took a bit to get up to the number in the following years--and they did not know they would be getting the schollies back until the 2015 recruiting year was well under way (and actually almost complete). Franklin went hard for skill players early, hoping that they would help him win a few while he was rebuilding the depth. That's what happened, but you have seniors and fifth year seniors this season who came under that shadow. Yes he recruited them--but he couldn't go after as many players as he would have wanted to due to sanctions in his first year, and in the second a lot of the players he might have gone after without sanctions were already locked up before sanctions were lifted in January 2015. That accounts for at least some of the depth issues.
Now, we're almost past all of that--but not quite. This season shows that--as depth issues often become visible in hard fought games like the last two were.
Penn State signed 25 guys in 2014 Class
25 guys in 2015 class
And 20 and 21 the following two years. The scholly limitations were gone when OBrien coach stop inventing excuses
To say that the effects of sanctions were not felt is just being disingenuous. Franklin didn't even have an enough OL for at least 2 years.
Oh dear god that isn't even close to what I am saying. No shit the sanctions had an effect the two years. Esp. On the OL but to blame the sanctions on current depth problems is ridiculous. You even say "were" ..past tense
Let me add James Franklin's first two years were above what they should have been.
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Any Ohio State fan will tell you it was awful when Cooper was coach. Great players were wasted. The problem with Cooper's teams was that the peaked early and played poorly at the end of the year. The 96 team was ridiculously loaded: Orlando Pace, Shawn Springs, David Boston, Andy Kazenmoyer, Antoine Winfield. When you put together the poor play in the latter part of the season with Cooper's additional inability to coach against Michigan, it was a recipe for disaster.
In the second from the last game, all OSU had to do was beat Indiana, a poor team. It was a nail biter, and OSU barely won it. Then OSU played a 3-loss Michigan team at home (I believe as at least a 12 point favorite). OSU ran all over Michigan in the first half, but could only manage 3 field goals. Shawn Springs slipped on 1 about 60-yard pass play, in the second half and OSU choked away the game -- Cooper pretty much didn't let Joe Germaine pass with about 4 minutes left in the game.
In 93 a 9-0-1 OSU team lost 28 to 0 to a 4-loss Michigan team. I could go on and on. However, no one who lived through the Cooper era would ever want Cooper as a coach. For most of his OSU career he was a great recruiter. But, it was awful the way several great teams lost to mediocre Michigan teams when you knew that OSU had better players but that Michigan had OSU's number. Just drove you absolutely crazy. Worst of all, when OSU had its great teams, you dreaded the Michigan game, and unfortunately the results were consistent with your fears.
A 10-2 season without a chance at the playoffs is just as bad as going 4-8 (and I respect your question).
But understand something: With the playoffs, you no longer have to go 12-0 or 11-1. Shiiiitttt... I would be happy with a 7-5 season as long as those wins were all conferences games and then some and we had a chance at the playoffs.
So I'm not looking for a 12-0/11-1 season. But I do expect them to beat the teams they are supposed to beat so it puts them in position to win their conference and a birth in the playoffs. Anything else in my eyes is a disappointing season.
That is such a binary stance. Years after the scandal there was still a cloud there that still impacted recruiting. There were kids who wouldn't even visit PSU or ones that parents steered them away from PSU. I don't put anything on O'Brien at all, he handled an utter $h!t show and was screwed over more than any coach I know of. The thing is PSU took a hit from a PR perspective and if you don't want to believe that is the case, so be it....but they did and it didn't go away the second they eased the scholarship limits. Both Franklin and O'Brien worked miracles, but that is in part due to the foundation Joe and the program had built up.
People are upset PSU isn't Bama, Clemson, or tOSU right now and that is normal, but a bit unrealistic. Bama has the #1 or #2 class every single year and OSU has had 3 top 5 classes along with a top 10 class. PSU has had one top 5 class...last year. One, that is it. Those thinking the depth and overall talent roster is on par with any of those rosters is a fool. Clemson may have it's entire DL go in the first 2 rounds. PSU won't have a single DL go in the first 5 rounds....if any even get drafted. We have frosh LB's that are DE's possibly having to step in due to many misses 2-3 years ago in recruiting. It happens.
The fact is Franklin did so much good so quickly that people were fooled into thinking this is a reloading year and not a rebuilding one...guess what...it is a bit of a rebuilding year. LB's and DL depth is a work in progress. WR's simply have not stepped it up enough. Rahne is still getting his feet wet and there will be some growing pains there. No OC and DC comes in from day one and is perfect from day one.
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So untrue. People arent upset PSU isn't Bama, Clemson, or tOSU right now. People are upset because we are losing games we should have won. Period.
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